Custom special attacks?

[kisamefishfries]

Well im sure all of us know that Namco Bandai will be working with Sakurai on the game. So this inspired a thought, what if Smash Bros took a page out of the "tales of" series? This would basically be all characters get like 6-7 skills and can swap them at will.
For instance
Mario-------------------------------------------------Link
Skills Available---------Selected Skills------------- Skills Available---------Selected Skills
Fire Ball-----------------Up: Coin Jump------------- Bow&Arrow------------Up: Spin Attack
Mario Tornado---------Nuetral: Fire Ball----------Bomb-------------------Nuetral: Bow&Arrow
Coin Jump--------------Side: Cape------------------Boomerang------------Side: Sword Beam
Fludd spray-------------Down: Mario Tornado-----Spin Attack------------Down: Fire Rod
Fludd hover-------------------------------------------Sword Beam
Cape--------------------------------------------------Fire Rod

This brings up a few good things, for one two players could both be mario but have different fighting styles which would help the game feel fresh even after a lot of play. Also DLC or missions could add more skills to characters maybe mario gets a skill that shoots out Pills instead of fireballs. This would also let Nintendo make improvements post game for existing characters.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Interesting idea; Expecting way too much from the game though. Not as in what would be physically possible to code, just expecting way too much from the game.

 

[kisamefishfries]

Interesting idea; Expecting way too much from the game though. Not as in what would be physically possible to code, just expecting way too much from the game.

I disagree this is also possibly one of the best ways they could balance characters(also a good way to break them i guess) and its not like it would take a ton more time to add a few attacks to a character. They already said the roster will probably change from brawl, but its not going to expand. So given the much greater amount of people and already having a starting ground from brawl giving moves and then having the option to select isn't exactly out there. I really think this would be possible and is not like 20 moves per character, its only a few extra just incase you get that guy who really doesn't like a move or two. However they already have a prototype which means something as important to the gameplay as this would already need to be in mind. Im expecting innovation of equal magnitude to be included though.

 

[Pyra]

It adds a layer of customization. However, I would vote against it. Like you said, it IS a good way to balance characters, but it's also a good way to break them. The latter might happen a lot more than the former, and can lead to the possibility of not only banning characters, but banning sets of special attacks, in competitive play. I'm no expert, though. I'm usually half asleep when typing these posts out.

I wouldn't mind if it ends up being in the game though. Could be epic.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Hmm... I usually am against this stuff but if it is done well and it can be balanced then I would be fine with it.

 

[ChronoTempest]

I think that this idea has potential and, if done correctly, could add lots of depth and replay value to the game. As for the balancing issue; if nothing else, they could use a set moveset within torunaments (such as their movesets in brawl).
-Peace

 

[Johnknight1]

Interesting idea; Expecting way too much from the game though. Not as in what would be physically possible to code, just expecting way too much from the game.

Kink has all bases cover, per usual. I agree with Kink. The reason it is so hard to put in playable characters is to give them textures, glitch test (and whatnot), creating new animations (returning characters minimally need since past animations can be ported, whereas with newcomers everything must be built from scratch), and to balance characters.

If you give characters multiple special move options, you make all of that (minus the first point) harder. You require the animators to create new animations. You require the folks in charge of balancing to balance better to work more on balancing moves. Worst of all, you make a less unique game. The flaws of special moves is that some are better than others, but they are different. If you give every character any (or even several) options, most of the roster is going to have similar (if not the exact same) special moves.

If you have ever played Pokémon competitively, you know that only like 100 moves out of say 600 get used. That is what it would be like. Thus, it would take away from the game by making every character the same in terms of special. Literally (outside of other moves) the only thing that would be unique would be weight, jump height, heaviness, etc.

 

[kisamefishfries]

If you give characters multiple special move options, you make all of that (minus the first point) harder. You require the animators to create new animations. You require the folks in charge of balancing to balance better to work more on balancing moves. Worst of all, you make a less unique game. The flaws of special moves is that some are better than others, but they are different. If you give every character any (or even several) options, most of the roster is going to have similar (if not the exact same) special moves.

If you have ever played Pokémon competitively, you know that only like 100 moves out of say 600 get used. That is what it would be like. Thus, it would take away from the game by making every character the same in terms of special. Literally (outside of other moves) the only thing that would be unique would be weight, jump height, heaviness, etc.

You have a point with the animations, and in that respect this idea is a flop. And with the pokemon thing I also agree to an extent. People discover new uses for things. When brawl came out I believe olimar was a low tier character, then people found out using his down B gave him super armor. He suddenly became better. Same deal here, a certain skill may be mediocre, but when put with a certain skill set it may be useful for combo-ing or other things where it wouldn't normally fit. And when you are forced to select 4 of 7 its not like major changes do that much, you are actually forced to use at least one similar skill. Besides this rule that you said also goes for characters. Only the top few tier characters are used in tournaments. In melee didn't it get to the point where almost every single person was using either Fox or C. Falcon? That rule will exist as long as there are choices.

Also a reference to what I said before, most animations are brought over and tweeked. Sakurai said he didn't want to expand the roster, just change it a bit. This means that probably at least 30 characters already have a base for all moves and animations. If they only need to create 5-6 characters this leaves a lot of time. I doubt a single person wants another SSE or anything like it which should also leave a lot of time. So either the game will be coming out earlier than expected, or they are going to add some amazing things. Maybe not of this magnitude, but hopefully great.... on second thought I'm not fond of the 2015 release people are predicting maybe basic would be better.

 

[ryuu seika]

With 7 moves, you're forced to keep atleast 1 move from the default set.
Add to that the fact that most of a character's moves aren't specials and it really shouldn't cause to much homogenisation.

 

[SubparSmashBrother]

no, I hate this idea. Custom movesets would be too hard to balance for a game with this many characters. I would rather have simplistic and balanced movesets than customizations, this isn't an RPG

 

[kisamefishfries]

no, I hate this idea. Custom movesets would be too hard to balance for a game with this many characters. I would rather have simplistic and balanced movesets than customizations, this isn't an RPG

no one ever said this was an rpg... Its just most people are probably disappointed with a lot of movesets in the game especially when some characters have an insane amount of potential, this is just a way to give more variety to a game that won't be expanding it's roster.... just tuning and editing it. As for balancing difficulty, It really shouldn't be too hard. If you have a set moveset selection then people are just going to go towards the characters who were originally made broken, hence metaknight in brawl and fox and captain falcon in melee.

 

[ryuu seika]

Sure, people might give Fox's specials to Falcon if able but Donkey Kong would be just as unpopular a choice in Melee, even with all the best specials in the game.
People would tend to pick the most broken character over the most broken special moves, since the broken character can then be given decent specials to work with, while the character with access to the really broken specials is likely to have little else going for them.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

I'm generally against moveset customization simply because most of the time there will be an optimal moveset for the character to have, essentially turning it into a matter of "did you look online for the best specials?"

 

[ryuu seika]

But isn't it so much fun when you can respond with "Yeah. I did. And then I chose all the others."?

EDIT: Imagine what would happen if Kirby got to choose his copied abilities. God tier for sure!

 

[finalark]

I'm generally against moveset customization simply because most of the time there will be an optimal moveset for the character to have, essentially turning it into a matter of "did you look online for the best specials?"

Pretty much this. I'm actually pretty against RPGs elements in fighting games in general.

Remember how over-focused Soul Calibur IV was on its RPG elements that so horribly broke the game that nobody even bothered with it competitively? Exactly.