Custom Character creation, and how it can be done right.

[Scar86]

Now, I know this a tender subject here in the realm of Smash bros. So, before this thread devolves into a torrent of NUU SAKURAI WULD NVR DO THAT MII'S ONLY!

Let's take a step back and think here.


First of all, We know that in Smash brothers brawl, there was a sticker system, through which you could Slightly customize your character in the subspace emissary.

Secondly, we also know that Sakurai himself has mentioned Several Times that The game would focus heavily on "Connectivity" with the 3ds. He also said that he would like for the 3DS experience to be a "Personal One".

And Finally, remember that NAMCO is helping to develop the game, Namco has a lot of experience in this area, and speaking solely on the subject of customization, Nintendo probably could not have picked a better Support team for the job.

Whenever I think of character creation, many, many games come to mind. Some have been good, some bad. But there is only One that I can Remember, (Outside of something like D&D Online) that truly felt like My own, the Soul Calibur Series. More specifically, Soul Calibur III

[COLLAPSE=]"

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It had a multitude of Playstyles, disciplines, and weapons you could unlock for you're character. As well as cosmetic gear.


There were many Problems however. The true Irony is that It's greatest strength was also it's greatest weakness. BECAUSE they're we're so many classes that we're so vastly different, there we're a few that we're grotesquely imbalanced, to the point of broken. I don't Blame the Developers. it was their first time dipping their feet in the water, at least In respect to the Souls games.



Fast Forward to all these years later, and we have a Developer who has many more years of experience under their belt, and a multitude of Solid Games to show for it. Most Recently, SCV and Tekken Tag 2

With all of this in Mind, what do you say would be a Good way to approach this? Assuming that it will in fact happen.

(And also, simply saying it isn't going to happen, or can't. Is not a valid answer, this is about the what if.)

I Personally think the system should break down to something like this.


The custom character creator could allow you to choose from the fighting styles of the characters that are already in the game initially,providing you have unlocked them. As you progress you will be able to unlock fighting styles that are more "Generic" Meaning that these are fighting styles that are more the Kind of Meat-and Potatoes Styles. Consisting of the Various Fighting Disciplines in the Smash brothers Universe.



The catch would be, that these Fighting Styles Would NOT have the same types of "Special" moves as the rest of the fighters. No swordsmen shooting fireballs out of their hands, no Boxers with Plasma whips. Instead these "Generic" Fighting Styles could rely on the Stickers that they obtain throughout the course of the game to give them their special abilities. So let's say for example. there is a swordsman class. The class fights with a finesse similar to Marth's. If you give this character a Sticker that gives him +15 Lightning Damage with a Standard B attack, he will do his Charged sword swipe or whatever, and it will do Lightning damage, stunning the Target. Or Perhaps a very short range Lightning wave will come out of the sword. If you Apply a Fire Sticker, it will do +15 Fire Damage, doing higher knockback damage, and a very short range, horizontal burst of fire will come out of the sword. Exact same range/damage as the Lightning attack.

I think it would be a great deal easier for the developers to balance out customization if the playing field is always level.

a system such as this would be a way to keep character customization deep, engaging, and Balanced. See, if there we're 10 different Unique Classes, all with different types of special abilities, Summons, Spells, interdimesnsional capes, whatever. there is always going to be that One special ability that trumps them all.

But this way, the system stay's focused, neat, and easy to manage.

Now, Let's Talk Cosmetics.


I think Cosmetic items for you're character could be unlocked in a fashion similar to trophies. You Make progress in the game, beat event matches, and sometimes just find them lying around. They Don't really have any affect on you're character other than that when you take consistent damage, they can break/fall off for the duration of the match.



What do you all think of this? Anything I left out? I'm alway's Open to Ideas.

 

[Kirbunny431]

I like the sound of that! :3 That sounds like it could work. I love character creation, and I would be satisfied with a system like this.

I would like it if they allowed us to create Kirby-sized characters alongside the humanoids, so we could have characters using Kirby's, Pikachu's, Jigglypuff's, and whoever else's styles. Just throwing that out there.

 

[3Bismyname]

i've often thought that it could work like you got like 4 or 5 classes. let's call them Swordsman, Brawler, Magician, Beast and idk something like Technician.
you select your character to be a swordsman and your able to customize the moves reflecting swordsmen in the game.
So you could have like your special Ike's Eruption attack but his up special is Links spin attack. catch is being if you chose swordsman as the class than you can't use moves of character who would be considered Brawler like Mario.

you can change your characters size and weight and these will effectively decide how strong, heavy, and fast the character is as well as their appearance. this is to prevent character from being as Strong as Bowser but as fast as Pikachu. this could even decide certain moves you can and can't use. like let's say you make a beast character as small as Pikachu. he can use most Beast moves like Yoshi's egg throw or even Bowser Whirling Fortress, but he can't use certain attacks like DK's hand clap. or likewise you make a character big he can't learn Pikachu's quick attack or Sonic's homing attack

Certain things like Elements would be difficult to manage like how can I have a beast using Pikachu's thunder attack but has Bowsers fire breath but idk i'm working on a thought process for that.

Accessory and clothing items can be earned throughout the game. Some are universal such as Hats and shirts. but others are specific to these classes like using the Master sword can only be equipped to Swaordsmen or if you want your character to have Bowsers shell he has to be a beast type.

"Gimmicks" can't be involved in the custom character like you can't be two tandum characters like the Ice Climbers or change character like Zelda or the Pokemon trainer.

Swordsman= Link, Marth, Ike, Toon Link, Meta Knight
Brawler= Mario, Luigi, Captain Falcon, Kirby, Wario, Jigglypuff
Magician= Zelda, Ganandorf, Lucas, Ness, Lucario, Peach
Beast= Bowser, DK, Yoshi, Pikachu, Sonic, Pokemon trainer
Technician= Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Fox, Falco, Diddy Kong, Snake

some characters like Pit could even be considered both Swordsman and Magician therefore a lot of his moves could be shared between the two classes.

Yeah that's basically what I've thought about the whole thing.
I know theres some balancing issues with this but that's just how i've thought it could work.

 

[Scar86]

Spoiler

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I like the sound of that! :3 That sounds like it could work. I love character creation, and I would be satisfied with a system like this. I would like it if they allowed us to create Kirby-sized characters alongside the humanoids, so we could have characters using Kirby's, Pikachu's, Jigglypuff's, and whoever else's styles. Just throwing that out there.

"]

awesome! I think that characters such as as Jigglypuff,Kirby, Pikachu would have a fighting style tha reflects the way they fight. But I'm not sure how exactly you would Classify them Beasts? Brawlers? I'm not certain. But I don't think Kirby should go into the same Category as someone like Pikachu, because even though their size is similar they're fighting Styles are not. Maybe it could break down like this.

On the creation Menu you Pick the Size of you're character, which deterimines their Reach,weight, and Attack Power. And then each category of fighter has several options from which they can choose from

So for example

Large-Brawler:Ganondorf/Donkey-Kong

Large-Swordsman:Ike

Average Brawler: Wolf/Falco/Captain Falcon

Average Swordsman:Marth/Link


Small Brawlerikachu,Mario

Small Swordsman: Toon Link/Meta-Knight.

Alternitavley I would love to see a Toon-Link Sized Ike fighting Style, but to balance that the small character would have to be slightly faster, and slightly Weaker/Lighter than he would have been if he had chosen to be very large. So instead of having the strength of Ike, He would have the strength of Falco? I'm not exactly certain how it would work. But I'll let you guy's in on a Formula that's worked flawlessly in the past. The Soul Calibur 5 Forumla.

It breaks down like this

The Taller you're character is, the longer the reach/weaker they hit.

The shorter you're character is, the harder they hit/shorter the reach.

The difference in attack times between the tallest/shortest characters is so small it's almost undetectable, we're literally talking about 4-6 frames here. The True Speed/Power comes from what Discipline you pick.

And the Generic classes would work on the same principle, but instead Stickers would have a Greater Effect on how the character Fights in-Combat. I honestly never really liked the Idea of Stickers in the first place,Although was really cool customizing fighters in the SSE. Once Adventure mode was completed they kind of lost their purpose. I feel like if it's gonna be a part of the game, don't just have it in ONE PART, you know? I'd rather have them be something other than junk that I add to my scrapbook! XD

Spoiler

="

i've often thought that it could work like you got like 4 or 5 classes. let's call them Swordsman, Brawler, Magician, Beast and idk something like Technician. you select your character to be a swordsman and your able to customize the moves reflecting swordsmen in the game. So you could have like your special Ike's Eruption attack but his up special is Links spin attack. catch is being if you chose swordsman as the class than you can't use moves of character who would be considered Brawler like Mario. you can change your characters size and weight and these will effectively decide how strong, heavy, and fast the character is as well as their appearance. this is to prevent character from being as Strong as Bowser but as fast as Pikachu. this could even decide certain moves you can and can't use. like let's say you make a beast character as small as Pikachu. he can use most Beast moves like Yoshi's egg throw or even Bowser Whirling Fortress, but he can't use certain attacks like DK's hand clap. or likewise you make a character big he can't learn Pikachu's quick attack or Sonic's homing attack Certain things like Elements would be difficult to manage like how can I have a beast using Pikachu's thunder attack but has Bowsers fire breath but idk i'm working on a thought process for that. Accessory and clothing items can be earned throughout the game. Some are universal such as Hats and shirts. but others are specific to these classes like using the Master sword can only be equipped to Swaordsmen or if you want your character to have Bowsers shell he has to be a beast type. "Gimmicks" can't be involved in the custom character like you can't be two tandum characters like the Ice Climbers or change character like Zelda or the Pokemon trainer. Swordsman= Link, Marth, Ike, Toon Link, Meta Knight Brawler= Mario, Luigi, Captain Falcon, Kirby, Wario, Jigglypuff Magician= Zelda, Ganandorf, Lucas, Ness, Lucario, Peach Beast= Bowser, DK, Yoshi, Pikachu, Sonic, Pokemon trainer Technician= Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Fox, Falco, Diddy Kong, Snake some characters like Pit could even be considered both Swordsman and Magician therefore a lot of his moves could be shared between the two classes. Yeah that's basically what I've thought about the whole thing. I know theres some balancing issues with this but that's just how i've thought it could work.

"]

I Agree 100% with the Size/Weight/Speed balance.

Now in a perfect world, That is what I would have modeled my Idea after. Because I honestly feel like that would be a lot of fun. But the problem with that is that If you have the ability to pick all of the abilities with no system of balances, we would basically end up with characters like this.


Ike's Standard A

Meta-Knight's Side-A

Meta-Knight's B

Marth's Down-B

Link's Up-B

it would be basically every good (Or cheap) move from every character of their respected class in the game all mashed into one character. I mean, can you imagine Meta-knight being even MORE BROKEN? I shudder to even think of it! To be honest, I think that move customization could work something like this.

So for each attack you're character has, you can assign a sticker to. Or each Class of Attack If you want thing's very simple.


So B attacks. A Attacks, Smash attacks, Aireals, and Grab's


So Let's just say Ike's in the next game, and he keeps his pretty Fire-storm B attack. If I assign an Ice Sticker to his Special slot, he'll call up a small glaicer instead of a Fireball. Or IF I assign a Heart-Container Sticker. He will release a Healing Aura that will heal his-self for the amount of Damage he would have done if it had been an offensive attack. So about 20-30 damage? If he uses Aether, on the other hand, it will generate a negative-field effect that will push the enemy away.

I actually think a custom class like a Pokemon Trainer COULD work, they don't even have to be pokemon. You could have a Evil-demon guy directing his three minions from beyond the grave. Or A Princess Directing her 3 Bodygaurds. Pokemon trainer felt like a really solid,balanced fighter to me, So I think if they kept the same forumla with a custom type of class, it could possibly work. Call it a Puppet-Master! But who know's.

 

[Gene]

I think creating a character with the ICs gimmick could work. And I'm all in for creating characters. When I've heard Namco was helping with Smash 4's development, I thought there could be a possibility for creating characters. Also getting better online.

What if there was an online mode that randomly generates characters for the players to use? Multiple players can be in a lobby. The spectators in the lobby can place bets on what player would win before the match starts. The winner of the match and the spectator could get stickers for custom characters, trophies, and songs.

 

[Scar86]

I think creating a character with the IC's gimmick could work. And I'm all in for creating characters. When I've heard Namco was helping with Smash 4's development, I thought there could be a possibility for creating characters. Also getting better online.

What if there was an online mode that randomly generates characters for the players to use? Multiple players can be in a lobby. The spectators in the lobby can place bets on what player would win before the match starts. The winner of the match and the spectator could get stickers for custom characters, trophies, and songs.

Oh you mean Ice-Climbers? LOL epic fail. I think an Ice Climbers type custom could work. But they would have to be limited in the power of their Projectile-type classes. Can you imagine 2 Falco's at once? XD


that's actually a really good idea, it could even have a team mode! "Team Mosh Pit" maybe?

 

[Gene]

IC? I'm afraid I don't follow. :O


that's actually a really good idea, it could even have a team mode! "Team Mosh Pit" maybe?

ICs= Ice Climbers

 

[3Bismyname]

Spoiler

""]

awesome! I think that characters such as as Jigglypuff,Kirby, Pikachu would have a fighting style tha reflects the way they fight. But I'm not sure how exactly you would Classify them Beasts? Brawlers? I'm not certain. But I don't think Kirby should go into the same Category as someone like Pikachu, because even though their size is similar they're fighting Styles are not. Maybe it could break down like this.

On the creation Menu you Pick the Size of you're character, which deterimines their Reach,weight, and Attack Power. And then each category of fighter has several options from which they can choose from

So for example

Large-Brawler:Ganondorf/Donkey-Kong

Large-Swordsman:Ike

Average Brawler: Wolf/Falco/Captain Falcon

Average Swordsman:Marth/Link


Small Brawlerikachu,Mario

Small Swordsman: Toon Link/Meta-Knight.

Alternitavley I would love to see a Toon-Link Sized Ike fighting Style, but to balance that the small character would have to be slightly faster, and slightly Weaker/Lighter than he would have been if he had chosen to be very large. So instead of having the strength of Ike, He would have the strength of Falco? I'm not exactly certain how it would work. But I'll let you guy's in on a Formula that's worked flawlessly in the past. The Soul Calibur 5 Forumla.

It breaks down like this

The Taller you're character is, the longer the reach/weaker they hit.

The shorter you're character is, the harder they hit/shorter the reach.

The difference in attack times between the tallest/shortest characters is so small it's almost undetectable, we're literally talking about 4-6 frames here. The True Speed/Power comes from what Discipline you pick.

And the Generic classes would work on the same principle, but instead Stickers would have a Greater Effect on how the character Fights in-Combat. I honestly never really liked the Idea of Stickers in the first place,Although was really cool customizing fighters in the SSE. Once Adventure mode was completed they kind of lost their purpose. I feel like if it's gonna be a part of the game, don't just have it in ONE PART, you know? I'd rather have them be something other than junk that I add to my scrapbook! XD

Spoiler

=""]

I Agree 100% with the Size/Weight/Speed balance.

Now in a perfect world, That is what I would have modeled my Idea after. Because I honestly feel like that would be a lot of fun. But the problem with that is that If you have the ability to pick all of the abilities with no system of balances, we would basically end up with characters like this.


Ike's Standard A

Meta-Knight's Side-A

Meta-Knight's B

Marth's Down-B

Link's Up-B

it would be basically every good (Or cheap) move from every character of their respected class in the game all mashed into one character. I mean, can you imagine Meta-knight being even MORE BROKEN? I shudder to even think of it! To be honest, I think that move customization could work something like this.

So for each attack you're character has, you can assign a sticker to. Or each Class of Attack If you want thing's very simple.


So B attacks. A Attacks, Smash attacks, Aireals, and Grab's


So Let's just say Ike's in the next game, and he keeps his pretty Fire-storm B attack. If I assign an Ice Sticker to his Special slot, he'll call up a small glaicer instead of a Fireball. Or IF I assign a Heart-Container Sticker. He will release a Healing Aura that will heal his-self for the amount of Damage he would have done if it had been an offensive attack. So about 20-30 damage? If he uses Aether, on the other hand, it will generate a negative-field effect that will push the enemy away.

I actually think a custom class like a Pokemon Trainer COULD work, they don't even have to be pokemon. You could have a Evil-demon guy directing his three minions from beyond the grave. Or A Princess Directing her 3 Bodygaurds. Pokemon trainer felt like a really solid,balanced fighter to me, So I think if they kept the same forumla with a custom type of class, it could possibly work. Call it a Puppet-Master! But who know's.

In my mind a Brawler is a character who's primary means of attack is close range with no weapons. that's why character like Mario and Captain Falcon are in this category. I listed Beast because I just didn't want half the roster to be considered the Brawler category.

I did say how this would be made balance. Certain moves are usable by your character regardless of whether or not your character is large or small. Like let's say Link's Bow and Arrow falls under this category. while others can only be used if your character is larger in size. So most of Meta Knights moves could only be used if your character is Lighter weight but moves like Ike's could only be used if your swordsman is heavier.

I do like the whole Sticker idea though

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

This is a cool idea, but games that use in-depth character customization ultimately rob the charm and appeal of the game and it's characters. This, and the fact that the characters are owned by Nintendo, would not only take away from character individuality, but systematically mock the characters and their represented franchises. Balancing the game would also become a huge pain in the *** since you would have to properly gauge knock back. for each respective move vs. individual character strength. I honestly can't see any way to realistically implement this into the Smash Bros franchise.

 

[Scar86]

In my mind a Brawler is a character who's primary means of attack is close range with no weapons. that's why character like Mario and Captain Falcon are in this category. I listed Beast because I just didn't want half the roster to be considered the Brawler category.

I did say how this would be made balance. Certain moves are usable by your character regardless of whether or not your character is large or small. Like let's say Link's Bow and Arrow falls under this category. while others can only be used if your character is larger in size. So most of Meta Knights moves could only be used if your character is Lighter weight but moves like Ike's could only be used if your swordsman is heavier.

I do like the whole Sticker idea though

Oh, I i didn't get all that the first time I read it. I think that it's a great Idea to have the moves determined by size. It'll keep from having Meta-Ike's! haha.

What do you think about characters that use mostly Ranged weapons? I can't decide on how one could balance them. But I still think a mainly-ranged class would be a neat idea.

This is a cool idea, but games that use in-depth character customization ultimately rob the charm and appeal of the game and it's characters. This, and the fact that the characters are owned by Nintendo, would not only take away from character individuality, but systematically mock the characters and their represented franchises. Balancing the game would also become a huge pain in the *** since you would have to properly gauge knock back. for each respective move vs. individual character strength. I honestly can't see any way to realistically implement this into the Smash Bros franchise.

No no no no, not at all. In terms of Taking away from the Novelty of the existing characters, That's not going to happen. Because the Existing characters would have their moveset's represented in the Character Creator too. As well as The fact that most people don't make good custom characters. So if anything we're a laughing-stock, it's probably going to be peoples terribad Master-Cheifs with Green Samus Armor, or Awful-looking Ridley Wannabees. Now I would agree that It's difficult to balance out every single type of character class. But Namco has already done it before, Flawlessly. I really don't think Balance is going to be an issue this time around. Remember, the reason the balance in the last game was so bad is because only one man was doing it. Now, Sakurai has his whole team, with input from the Souls/Tekken/SC team. The only thing they may not be able to fix is Meta Knight, he's beyond helping.

I'm going to be honest. I think Nintendo chose to work with Namco on this game for 3 Reasons.


1.They're developing 2 games simultaneously, and they needed some more manpower if they we're going to get the game within the next year or two.

2.They needed a company that could help Steer smash brothers back towards being more competitive, and they MAY have needed help with the Character customization feature, that Sakurai want's on the 3ds. Namco, who has done thing's Like this many times before, seemed the perfect pick.

3. And finally, and most importantly. I think that they Brought Namco on board because they have a really solid model down in terms of their online play. I mean they're probably won't be any lag at all in the Next Smash brothers when it goes online.



The only thing I worry about, is Namco's awful reputation of Rushing their games. They Rushed Dark Souls, they Rushed SCV, and their probably going to rush Smash Brothers. But then again. Melee was Rushed, and it turned out great! So we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Fuujin]

This is a flop idea.

 

[3Bismyname]

Oh, I i didn't get all that the first time I read it. I think that it's a great Idea to have the moves determined by size. It'll keep from having Meta-Ike's! haha.

What do you think about characters that use mostly Ranged weapons? I can't decide on how one could balance them. But I still think a mainly-ranged class would be a neat idea.

that was what Technicians was gonna be but lets call this Tech now. Samus, the Starfox characters, ROB, Snake these movesets are represented here. this would be the best representative for Long Range movesets.
Magicians could even be considered Long Range because the characters who would fall into this would be Ness, Lucas, Zelda, Lucario and Ganandorf and all of them with the exception of Ganandorf have some significant ranged attacks.

Here's the way i see it

Brawlers= Close Range
Beasts= Close Range
Swordsmen= Mid Range
Magicians= Mid Range-Long
Tech= Long Range

 

[Scar86]

This is a flop idea.

[COLLAPSE="[IMG]http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj532/SAlexanderPhD/alist-ryan-nogirl.gif[/IMG]"][/COLLAPSE]

Care to Elaborate? To give any constructive criticism? Just saying "huehehehe flop Idox" dosen't really give us anything to debate about.

that was what Technicians was gonna be but lets call this Tech now. Samus, the Starfox characters, ROB, Snake these movesets are represented here. this would be the best representative for Long Range movesets.
Magicians could even be considered Long Range because the characters who would fall into this would be Ness, Lucas, Zelda, Lucario and Ganandorf and all of them with the exception of Ganandorf have some significant ranged attacks.

Here's the way i see it

Brawlers= Close Range
Beasts= Close Range
Swordsmen= Mid Range
Magicians= Mid Range-Long
Tech= Long Range

Gotcha. I was thinking more along the lines of An engineer type that could lay down mines and stuff like Snake does when you said Technician. Maybe moves like planting C4 and sutff would be part of the "Brawler Moveset"?


Speaking of the Technician, It would be cool to be able to get Different Types of weapons for them, similar to how you might be able to equip swordsmen with a diffrent sword or brawlers with Iron knuckles and stuff. It would be a sticker you collect. Maybe the Technician could start with a beam pistol. And as you progress you could unlock beam-rifle's, kind of like the Super-scope. Beam Sniper's, a launcher similar to Snake's. You could even equip them with diffrent gadgets that could change their playstyle without messing with the core-mechanics too much. Instead of a reflector, you could equip have an energy field that absorbs/destroy's an item thats thrown at it.


Also 3B as you said before, there could also be "All Purpose" Sticker-Weapons/Gadgets that you can equip to all characters. Generic thing's Like Bow's and Arrows. Maybe a Short sword and things like that. If anything it would be more of a Cosmetic than an actual attack I think.

 

[3Bismyname]

Care to Elaborate? To give any constructive criticism? Just saying "huehehehe flop Idox" dosen't really give us anything to debate about.






Gotcha. I was thinking more along the lines of An engineer type that could lay down mines and stuff like Snake does when you said Technician. Maybe moves like planting C4 and sutff would be part of the "Brawler Moveset"?


Speaking of the Technician, It would be cool to be able to get Different Types of weapons for them, similar to how you might be able to equip swordsmen with a diffrent sword or brawlers with Iron knuckles and stuff. It would be a sticker you collect. Maybe the Technician could start with a beam pistol. And as you progress you could unlock beam-rifle's, kind of like the Super-scope. Beam Sniper's, a launcher similar to Snake's. You could even equip them with diffrent gadgets that could change their playstyle without messing with the core-mechanics too much. Instead of a reflector, you could equip have an energy field that absorbs/destroy's an item thats thrown at it.


Also 3B as you said before, there could also be "All Purpose" Sticker-Weapons/Gadgets that you can equip to all characters. Generic thing's Like Bow's and Arrows. Maybe a Short sword and things like that. If anything it would be more of a Cosmetic than an actual attack I think.

Well Bow and Arrows, swords, gun style i just thought those would be all cosmetic nothing more to it. my only real problem with the idea of unlocking bigger weapons that really do different things is tougher cause for all intensive purposes all the other classes would be very limited and couldnt expand much more.

F.Y.I i think Falco should get the Beam Rifle put into his moveset somehow

This is something else i was thinking just to make the whole thing more fair
I had thought like let's say we start the game with 15 characters. now all the moves and weapons available in the character creator at this point only reflects the character you have. just an added thing to make it a little more fair. like you still have to play the game to get all the skills u want.
the custom character can't be used in the story mode, and most Event matches theres only a couple he could maybe be used for

 

[Scar86]

Well Bow and Arrows, swords, gun style i just thought those would be all cosmetic nothing more to it. my only real problem with the idea of unlocking bigger weapons that really do different things is tougher cause for all intensive purposes all the other classes would be very limited and couldnt expand much more.

F.Y.I i think Falco should get the Beam Rifle put into his moveset somehow

This is something else i was thinking just to make the whole thing more fair
I had thought like let's say we start the game with 15 characters. now all the moves and weapons available in the character creator at this point only reflects the character you have. just an added thing to make it a little more fair. like you still have to play the game to get all the skills u want.
the custom character can't be used in the story mode, and most Event matches theres only a couple he could maybe be used for

Right, unless the character actually has an actual move with a bow and arrow or a gun, equipping a bow or gun to something like a brawler should just put the weapon on their back. Just to look cool.

Ok so when you say 15 characters with all the moves and weapons, do you mean like a Training room? So you can see which one you like best? I've seen a few games that have done that before, and it usually is a good way to get a feel for what skils you're looking for without having to apply the new item you pick up every single time you want to try it out. So I'm all for that Idea.


Yes, Customs Probably should stay out of the story mode, because they would look weird in custscenes with the other Nintendo Characters.

They could be in the offline gametypes, and Basic online Brawl. Custom's for Online Tournament Modes are usually a no-no.

I thought about that too. That's why I think Swordsmen could get different swords. Wave Swords, Katanas, Daggers. For Brawlers they would probably have to adopt "Stances" that would take the place of their weapons slot. Offensive, Like Fox, Defensive like Wolf, (At least I think he's defensive) The Key thing to remember is that changing their Sword, Gun, or Stance shouldn't fundamentally change the entire character. So if you have you're pistol like Fox does, changing it out for the Rile won't change any of his other moves except the shooting and maybe he hits with the butt of the gun instead of a shoulder-bash. and If you Change you're brawler to a Defensive Stance, his idle animation is diffrent, he may do less damage, and have better throw resistance, but the changing of the stance won't affect anything other than his A (OR B attacks).



The Thing that a lot of character customization systems get wrong, is that when you equip you're character with a weapon, the changes are night and day. If you had a greatsword, and you equip a Knife, suddenly you're flipping around like a Ninja and using smokescreen!


The Only Problem that I can think of is the Beast Class. Mage's could change their element that they cast (or punch with in Ganon's case), no problem right? But Beasts are all so different. Yoshi throws an Egg, Pikachu has thunder attacks, Jigglypuff sings, and Bowser breathes fire. There isn't really any way I can think to change them all, that wouldn't fundementally modify the character type. Unless you simply applied status affects to their abilities. Knockback damage, Stun, Burn damage ect.




Yeah, I think Falco should have a Rifle, or something like it as well.

I also always thought that it was dumb that Falco has the same Exact Blaster as Fox, but somehow his functions diffrently. Other than the fact that Falco's Laser beam is blue There's no way to tell from the outside that it's modded, it looks exactly the same., so why does one shoot fast and do no knockback, while the other is slower and stuns the enemy for a second? Oh well, Videogames right?

 

[3Bismyname]

Right, unless the character actually has an actual move with a bow and arrow or a gun, equipping a bow or gun to something like a brawler should just put the weapon on their back. Just to look cool.

Ok so when you say 15 characters with all the moves and weapons, do you mean like a Training room? So you can see which one you like best? I've seen a few games that have done that before, and it usually is a good way to get a feel for what skils you're looking for without having to apply the new item you pick up every single time you want to try it out. So I'm all for that Idea.


Yes, Customs Probably should stay out of the story mode, because they would look weird in custscenes with the other Nintendo Characters.

They could be in the offline gametypes, and Basic online Brawl. Custom's for Online Tournament Modes are usually a no-no.

I thought about that too. That's why I think Swordsmen could get different swords. Wave Swords, Katanas, Daggers. For Brawlers they would probably have to adopt "Stances" that would take the place of their weapons slot. Offensive, Like Fox, Defensive like Wolf, (At least I think he's defensive) The Key thing to remember is that changing their Sword, Gun, or Stance shouldn't fundamentally change the entire character. So if you have you're pistol like Fox does, changing it out for the Rile won't change any of his other moves except the shooting and maybe he hits with the butt of the gun instead of a shoulder-bash. and If you Change you're brawler to a Defensive Stance, his idle animation is diffrent, he may do less damage, and have better throw resistance, but the changing of the stance won't affect anything other than his A, (OR B attacks).

The Only Problem that I can think of is the Beast Class. Mage's could change their element that they cast (or punch with in Ganon's case), no problem right? But Beasts are all so different. Yoshi throws an Egg, Pikachu has thunder attacks, Jigglypuff sings, and Bowser breathes fire. There isn't really any way I can think to change them all, that wouldn't fundementally modify the character type. Unless you simply applied status affects to their abilities. Knockback damage, Stun, Burn damage ect.


The Thing that a lot of character customization systems get wrong, is that when you equip you're character with a weapon, the changes are night and day. If you had a greatsword, and you equip a Knife, suddenly you're flipping around like a Ninja and using smokescreen!




Yeah, I think Falco should have a Rifle, or something like it as well.

I also always thought that it was dumb that Falco has the same Exact Blaster as Fox, but somehow his functions diffrently. Other than the fact that Falco's Laser beam is blue There's no way to tell from the outside that it's modded, it looks exactly the same., so why does one shoot fast and do no knockback, while the other is slower and stuns the enemy for a second? Oh well, Videogames right?

yeah like the rifle is Falco's affinity weapon in Assault i believe so why not put that into his moveset. i dont get some choices ppl make sometimes.

I just think keeping the weapons very basic and just have them be for cosmetics is really the best way to go. None of this equipping this changes how the character fights stuff. lets not clutter this up and make it super complicated the first time round it right.

Oh and no i dont mean a training room. it all makes more sense in my head so just forget that part

 

[Scar86]

yeah like the rifle is Falco's affinity weapon in Assault i believe so why not put that into his moveset. i dont get some choices ppl make sometimes.

I just think keeping the weapons very basic and just have them be for cosmetics is really the best way to go. None of this equipping this changes how the character fights stuff. lets not clutter this up and make it super complicated the first time round it right.

Oh and no i dont mean a training room. it all makes more sense in my head so just forget that part

lol, stupid sakurai.

Hmm... I undserstand that a Super-Deep RPG style upgrade system might intimidate most Smash brothers players, and people who would come from the outside expecting a "Party game"

It could have a nice, simple, approachable menu with three Bars.

A dropdown selection at the top where you pick you're class. a blank plaque at the bottom where you apply all the stickers you can fit, like in The SSE. And a menu where you can select you're cosmetics next to the character.

And you unlock you're classes,items, and stickers through doing challenges and progressing through the game.

 

[3Bismyname]

lol, stupid sakurai.

Hmm... I undserstand that a Super-Deep RPG style upgrade system might intimidate most Smash brothers players, and people who would come from the outside expecting a "Party game"

It could have a nice, simple, approachable menu with three Bars.

A dropdown selection at the top where you pick you're class. a blank plaque at the bottom where you apply all the stickers you can fit, like in The SSE. And a menu where you can select you're cosmetics next to the character.

And you unlock you're classes,items, and stickers through doing challenges and progressing through the game.

The big problem with adding custom characters at all is that the main appeal for SSB was that anyone could pick it up and play so if its gonna be added then it should be as simple as possible

 

[Jon Farron]

This ide awould be very fun to play around with, but unfortunately probably won't be in :C

 

[Scar86]

This ide awould be very fun to play around with, but unfortunately probably won't be in :C

Well, I'm sure Sakurai won't adopt my exact model. But we do know he wants a character creation system, in the 3DS version at least. My hope is the wii-u gets one too. So we shouldn't count it out just yet!

 

[3Bismyname]

i honestly think that if Sakurai does anything close to custom character it would be like what's been happening with the recent Soul Calibur games. you know where you choose your character and then you can just tweak his outfit

 

[Ove]

I think he'd rather go with customisable Miis. That would make the most sense to me, since it's a way to add a customisable character and an important character to Nintendo history at the same time.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Maybe a different species thing.
Human
Monster (Gorilla, koopa, etc.)
Alien (Kirby characters, Space Pirates, etc.)
Mii (can use existing Miis from the console's memory)

 

[Jaedrik]

My smash attack will be a pelvic thrust.

 

[Ove]

I'd like to have Falcons Firekick (Fsmash) from SSB64 as a Fsmash. Preferably with the very same sound effect.

 

[Scar86]

Maybe a different species thing.
Human
Monster (Gorilla, koopa, etc.)
Alien (Kirby characters, Space Pirates, etc.)
Mii (can use existing Miis from the console's memory)

Aliens? :O

That could work. IT'll be funny to see Mii taunt parties in Online.

I'd like to have Falcons Firekick (Fsmash) from SSB64 as a Fsmash. Preferably with the very same sound effect.

Yes, captain falcon's smash in Brawl is Kind of Stupid. I like the one in Brawl - where he runs across the track and Falcon punches his enemy in the face though!

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Yes, captain falcon's smash in Brawl is Kind of Stupid. I like the one in Brawl - where he runs across the track and Falcon punches his enemy in the face though!

F-Smash - Forward Smash - not Final Smash.

 

[No_Skillz]

there is no way this could work without the created character being broken, even if certain attacks are limited to a certain playstyle. people will still manage to find ways to string attacks together and totally buff them beyond imagination, every character will be like MK on steroids. it wouldnt be super smash bros anymore it would be "create your character and make them fight" and render everyone else in the game useless.

the best way to customize would be a paint function to change the colors of already existing characters or being able to give them a whole new attire would be cool to, like giving marth several different kinds of swords to choose from (all having the same attributes of course) or being able to give him a different kind of hat instead of that fruity tiara, being able to alter moves would be too much

 

[3Bismyname]

there is no way this could work without the created character being broken, even if certain attacks are limited to a certain playstyle. people will still manage to find ways to string attacks together and totally buff them beyond imagination, every character will be like MK on steroids. it wouldnt be super smash bros anymore it would be "create your character and make them fight" and render everyone else in the game useless.

the best way to customize would be a paint function to change the colors of already existing characters or being able to give them a whole new attire would be cool to, like giving marth several different kinds of swords to choose from (all having the same attributes of course) or being able to give him a different kind of hat instead of that fruity tiara, being able to alter moves would be too much

it doesnt really matter if the character is broken. the character couldnt be used in turnoments or story mode so who really cares. he'd be for personal use. used against your friends and maybe online at the most.

 

[Scar86]

there is no way this could work without the created character being broken, even if certain attacks are limited to a certain playstyle. people will still manage to find ways to string attacks together and totally buff them beyond imagination, every character will be like MK on steroids. it wouldnt be super smash bros anymore it would be "create your character and make them fight" and render everyone else in the game useless.

the best way to customize would be a paint function to change the colors of already existing characters or being able to give them a whole new attire would be cool to, like giving marth several different kinds of swords to choose from (all having the same attributes of course) or being able to give him a different kind of hat instead of that fruity tiara, being able to alter moves would be too much

They won't be able to string Broken combos together if they're aren't any to begin with. Customization only becomes a liability when the character in question's moveset is fundementally flawed on it's own. Unless you add something like triple damage, a balanced character getting a small attribute boost in one area won't make them broken.

I have Faith that Namco could make Character Customization work. They did With Soul Calibur V, Why not with Smash brothers?


I don't remember ever making a character that was unstoppable in the SSE.

Remember. IT wouldn't actually be changing the moves themselves. you would just be adding/taking away attributes of the moves. So if you have Ganondorfs punch, and you add lightning to it, It Will take away his "Dark Magic" attribute or whatever. Instead of making it do so much Knockback, IT will instead stun the enemy when it hits them. Not knocking them back near as much.

In Soulcalibur each character has different weapons they could equip. And Each one buffs/debuffs you're character in diffrent areas. But none actually changed the exsisting moveset. Some we're weapons that could penetrate guard, some could break gaurds, Some could auto-Parry. some could give you more damage. All sorts of different Attributes that each weapon had, that never fundementally changed the characters moves, just the type of damage their moves do, and what strategy you should use while wielding said weapon.

Equipping a Shortsword with Ice instead of Lightning isn't going to make you summon a glacier, It will just do ice damage when you slash you're enemy.

F-Smash - Forward Smash - not Final Smash.

oh, In that case I agree.

it doesnt really matter if the character is broken. the character couldnt be used in turnoments or story mode so who really cares. he'd be for personal use. used against your friends and maybe online at the most.

Yes, It does matter. If a custom character is broken it takes all the fun out of fighting and playing the game in general. That's why we're trying to think of a system that won't make broken characters! XD

 

[3Bismyname]

Yes, It does matter. If a custom character is broken it takes all the fun out of fighting and playing the game in general. That's why we're trying to think of a system that won't make broken characters! XD

im more or less trying to say that no matter what we do the character creater will be a little broken. however, since the character doesnt further story mode and cant be used competitively, it really doesnt matter since its for personal play for the most part

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Plus for the characters you wanted but didn't get in, you would most likely find a way to using this. Also maybe for online their's a custom-characters only room to show off your character. They can't be used in tournaments online definitely, can't be used in story, it would make sense removes the purpose of the other characters. I would only see it in the regular mode and some extra events like multi-man brawl, or home-run game. Like the idea and you won't believe have many Fire Emblem characters I made in SoulCalibur 5

 

[MAtgSy]

Frankly, I always favored Miis as the stand-in for true create-a-character. There would be like 3 or 4 core movesets to choose from (everything except specials & FS) & a selection of specials to cherry pick. Not quite as destructive to balance but still offering a sense of variety.

 

[Orngeblu]

Sounds like a pretty cool idea. I don't know how well it'd work. Personally I don't think the concept "magician", and it would be awkward to have "swordsman" class on a character such as Mario, Pikachu, or Samus. (Not that they'd be holding a sword as a weapon or anything.)

It could most likely end badly, as well.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Sounds like a pretty cool idea. I don't know how well it'd work. Personally I don't think the concept "magician", and it would be awkward to have "swordsman" class on a character such as Mario, Pikachu, or Samus. (Not that they'd be holding a sword as a weapon or anything.)

It could most likely end badly, as well.

That is why there are kinda limited in the game, can only be used for certain things, and if they like Pikachu holding a sword let 'em

 

[Dark Phazon]

I think its safe to say some things are best left simple...

Imo as far as character customization goes in Smash i dont think it should go any further than Alt.Costumes & Accesseries..

 

[Sarcastic White Mage]

I do like the idea of adding accessories and character creation is certainly an interesting thought, but it would be very hard to add in something like that in smash brothers -at least imo it would be-. It just feels like It would make the game a bit unbalanced.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I do like the idea of adding accessories and character creation is certainly an interesting thought, but it would be very hard to add in something like that in smash brothers -at least imo it would be-. It just feels like It would make the game a bit unbalanced.

Thats what im tryna get at..why go on to more complex stuff when the basics atm are not right/balanced..

Also very cool pic i like it.

 

[Sarcastic White Mage]

Thats what im tryna get at..why go on to more complex stuff when the basics atm are not right/balanced..

Also very cool pic i like it.

Well I can see why people would want it specially since Namco has experience with from all the SC games, but just like you said why go in to something more complex when the basics is still in need of tweaking. Maybe if it was just focused a story mode -kind of like SC3 had it- then maybe it would work, but then that still leads to a problem of how exactly the character would it be balanced and ect. O and ty :D

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Meh! While I’m a costumization lover since the Commodore 64, I would be more than surprised if this will work.
Yeah! In Soul Calibur IV it worked, but just because that game had a characters with a similar basic humanoid structure. Here we have some many different structures it would require a character creation engine far more complex that the Spore’s one. And the results could be orrifing if not used by wise hands…
By VERY wise hands!
I think a better stage editor is more likely to happen.