Guide CunningKitsune's Guide to Ace Arwing Pilot Fox McCloud

[iamthemicrowave]

no its sinji u nub

 

[T-Cash]

nice thread

 

[CunningKitsune]

Well, it would seem that this is nearing five years since its last update, and in light of the renewed interest in the game, it is about that time. As this will quite likely be the final update on this work, I am looking to make it something special. For one, I would be most appreciative if interested individuals could provide me with links to relevant, useful resources for aspiring Fox players, similar to what I have compiled at the end of the guide. As of the writing of this post, I have, in addition to the references already in the guide, the following resources:

1) Stratocaster's Hitbox System
2) How Pre - Ledgegrab Body States Affect Your Ledgedash Timing
3) "Fox Hitbox Data" video
4) "Shield - dropping" video
5) Little England's tutorial videos​

Anything in addition to these resources would be most appreciated, and you would of course be credited for providing the source. Any useful media in this regard would be welcome, such as any match videos that highlight a particular key feature of Fox's game, for instance. I will also attempt to include any relevant gifs (particularly of hitboxes) in the posted version of the guide.

For this final update, I will also be composing a pdf of the guide, for sharing's sake. For this, while certainly not required, I would love to have some sort of original graphic or artwork as the cover image (with full credit to the creator, of course). I cannot accurately speculate as to a timeline for completion of the update as I have a number of obligations in the coming months, but I will do my best to make steady progress. As I said, with this likely being the final update, I want to make this something special. Anyone who wishes to participate would be more than welcome to do so and would have my everlasting gratitude; feel free to PM me your suggestions. Many thanks in advance.

- CKit

 

[Oskurito]

OMG I can't believe you decided to update the guide.

This is guide is so awesome already, but more awesomeness is always welcomed I guess, lol

 

[Tero.]

This guide is the first thing I read when I started Melee and picked up Fox back in 06/07.
I can't believe that it actually will be updated.

 

[NJzFinest]

Anthony you should update the stages you mention. I still see counterpicks like Corneria mentioned here. Also it seems like more and more Foxes are going for that techy SHDL campy/force you to approach playstyle nowadays, any input on that?

 

[CunningKitsune]

Anthony you should update the stages you mention. I still see counterpicks like Corneria mentioned here. Also it seems like more and more Foxes are going for that techy SHDL campy/force you to approach playstyle nowadays, any input on that?

Definitely, I'll be doing a top-to-bottom update, with a particularly heavy focus on the match-ups section, of course; these and other issues will be addressed. With regard to the defensive play style, I will touch upon that largely in the context of specific match-ups in which Fox benefits the most from defensive play.

 

[Wind]

You're doing gods work.

 

[ccrackpot]

Hey, I almost read every single word of that guide, at home and when I have time on work on my phone... :D

Incredible work, best Guide ever seen!

Theres just one single thing, maybe u could name the attacks ( such as "Mccloud Flip) in parantheses (dont know if spelled right), that it is the upair / drillkick the downair, etc, I was a little bit confused about that sometimes

Again, thank u very much!

 

[TSM ZeRo]

I grew up reading this guide.. to then meet this guy 8 years afterwards in a midwest tournament. Smash, man.... Beautiful.

 

[Red Rice]

Hey, I almost read every single word of that guide, at home and when I have time on work on my phone... :D

Incredible work, best Guide ever seen!

Theres just one single thing, maybe u could name the attacks ( such as "Mccloud Flip) in parantheses (dont know if spelled right), that it is the upair / drillkick the downair, etc, I was a little bit confused about that sometimes

Again, thank u very much!

If you're playing competitively, you might want to familiarize yourself with terms like f-air, d-air and u-air

There's a link to a glossary with all those terms somewhere, can't pinpoint where that is anymore

 

[Sky]

If you're playing competitively, you might want to familiarize yourself with terms like f-air, d-air and u-air

There's a link to a glossary with all those terms somewhere, can't pinpoint where that is anymore

#2 of References section within this guide of OP

 

[Kidney Thief]

Thanks I'm going to use the info in here to have more success killing fox mains since they are everywhere

 

[Espi]

How is progress?

 

[CunningKitsune]

As of today, I am at about the half-way point. However, that was the easier part; the heavy lifting, the character-specific portion, is the last major section remaining.

To that end, I ask for assistance in tracking down any match/set videos that showcase or highlight major ideas or key concepts in each of Fox's match-ups. If a video of a set or individual match really stood out to you for whatever reason, feel free to post here and discuss or PM me the link(s) and I'll take a look; you will be credited at the end of the guide for any submissions approved for inclusion. Footage of any of Fox's match-ups is welcome, but more recent material is preferred whenever possible, of course.

 

[Espi]

As of today, I am at about the half-way point. However, that was the easier part; the heavy lifting, the character-specific portion, is the last major section remaining.

To that end, I ask for assistance in tracking down any match/set videos that showcase or highlight major ideas or key concepts in each of Fox's match-ups. If a video of a set or individual match really stood out to you for whatever reason, feel free to post here and discuss or PM me the link(s) and I'll take a look; you will be credited at the end of the guide for any submissions approved for inclusion. Footage of any of Fox's match-ups is welcome, but more recent material is preferred whenever possible, of course.

I'm down to help! Just PM me what you want to be found, I could do some searching. I'll probably find something anyways when I'm studying VOD's

 

[Oskurito]

Like I said, I want to do a detailed video tutorial that will go with the video. You know this will be a lot of work (your whole guide is quite a lot of work already) so you may or may not choose to refer my future video as the official video for your guide. I guess you could consider my video to be a tribute video to all the work you've done.

I apologize for what I said I would do but I did not, and I accept if you wish to not count with me as serious help (I can totally understand that). Is just that sometimes stuff happens in your life, and there are always priorities that you have to take.

This still an amazing guide and the best (imo) starting point for a fox beginner.

 

[CunningKitsune]

No worries, Oskurito; stuff comes up, that's just how it is. I look forward to your contribution, and I will certainly put a placeholder in for the video and provide the link later if I manage to complete the rest of the update before you finish up the video. I love the idea, for sure; there is nothing better to supplement what I have written.

Also, to anyone following the update progress, I have not yet edited any of the updates into the original posts; the percentage complete refers to my working copy on my computer. I will place the final updated version here in one fell swoop once I have completed it in its entirety.

Edit (11/1/14): 50% done with A Tier character updates
Edit (10/30/14): 50% done with character updates
Edit (10/29/14): Completed B Tier character updates
Edit (10/24/14): 50% done with B Tier character updates
Edit (10/21/14): Completed F Tier character updates

 

[CunningKitsune]

Edit (11/17/14): 75% done with S Tier character updates
Edit (11/12/14): 50% done with S Tier character updates
Edit (11/9/14): 25% done with S Tier character updates
Edit (11/5/14): Completed A Tier character updates

Having reached the halfway point on the character-specific section, I figured I would give you guys a bit of a sneak peek as to how the completed section will look. Enjoy.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

8. Mr. Game & Watch

The strange Mr. Game & Watch has a good deal of tools up his sleeve with which to combat the top – tier Fox despite his comparatively meager tier position. These include a solid crouch – cancel counter game courtesy of his down – tilt (which likewise provides an excellent set – up on Fox for Game & Watch’s next move), numerous combos (some of which can go to death or to quite high damages if not DI’d properly) thanks in no small part to Fox’s innate physics, and the inability to be caught in shine comboes (that is, he falls down when shined and thus breaks any true shine combos). Indeed, if you are not careful, you may find your top – tier character succumbing to the surprisingly effective Game & Watch; Foxes inexperienced in the match – up can be caught off – guard by his noteworthy wavedash, combo game, and long – lasting hitboxes. Fortunately, you as always have more than a few tools and tricks of your own to earn you victory in the end.


First off, note that the exceedingly light and floaty Game & Watch is extremely vulnerable to your plethora of vertical kill options. As such, focus the vast majority of your play around landing a lethal up – smash or prepping your foe for deadly up – aerials. You can, for instance, catch G&W after he misses an aerial with a quick jump – canceled grab or up – smash, either of which can become lethal at quite low percents. You can also kill off of botched spacing thanks to your up – smash out of shield; simply running within range of G&W’s forward – aerial approach and holding up your shield could throw off his spacing and give you the time to land that killer Smash, which if it does not kill your opponent immediately will still prep him for up – aerial follow – ups. On a related note, take note of the fact that your up – throw animation is especially quick when throwing G&W due to his very low weight, so be ready to follow up so that you make the best use of the available stun time. As well, according to Qerb, G&W is the only character who can tech a platform when he is directly level with that platform (as opposed to all the other characters, who can tech only when they actually hit the platform’s surface); this could catch Foxes inexperienced at this match – up off – guard as it does markedly change the usual mindset and timing for following up off of a platform.

[...]
​

Counterpicks

Pokemon Stadium: Thanks to its low ceiling, Stadium is once again the counterpick of choice. The platforms on its various transformations also help break up Game & Watch’s combos and chain – throws.
​

[...]​

Bans/Strikes

Final Destination: Your best bet for a stage ban in this match – up, FD allows Game & Watch to extend his combos while robbing you of any platforms you otherwise could have used to break his punishes. The ceiling is also not terribly low, and the good amount of space under Final Destination aids G&W’s recovery.
​

[...]
​

Media

L (Fox) vs. Qerb: Qerb draws attention to Game & Watch’s defensive play near the edge along with the edge – guarding tools at G&W’s disposal. In the second game, you should notice that Qerb often makes use of the up – tilt to cut off L’s neutral – aerial approaches as well as the Jab to stun the opposing Fox just long enough to take advantage of the opening. L makes good use of grabs and down – aerials early in the set to nullify Game & Watch’s crouch – cancel counter game.

DJ Nintendo (Fox) vs. Qerb: DJ Nintendo’s defensive style causes Qerb problems in this set as Game & Watch has no reliable, effective answer for Fox’s mobility, particularly on platforms. Notice how Qerb guards himself against follow – ups by using up – tilts after his aerials, particularly when Fox is on a platform above him.

ZeRo (Fox) vs. Qerb: This set is particularly instructive in that it shows quite drastically the impact of a change in play style. From two games down in this winners finals set, ZeRo gradually switches from an approach – and shine – heavy game plan to a defensive, baiting, laser – and grab – focused style that proves quite effective against the hapless Game & Watch.

[...]​

 

[Faithkeeper]

I don't play against much G&W, but I really like the type of content you've included.

 

[Ya Boy GP]

I actually played against Qerb at Ktar XI this past saturday. The set wasn't uploaded on youtube yet but I can give you a quick rundown on how I think the matchup goes.

Prior to my match with him, I had no idea how to go about the G&W matchup, so everything I did was on the fly. Everything I'm going to say now is stuff that I learned either during my set with him or after my set with him when I looked up some G&W frame data.
General gameplan:
The more patient you play, the better you'll do. The entire set I just dash danced and since G&W has no real approaches, I'd wait for Qerb to do something unsafe (jab, fair) and punish him for it with a grab into u-throw uair. Maybe another uair, but I also made sure to laser him on the way down.
Stages:
In this matchup, fox has the advantage on any stage. The worst ones for him are probably FoD due to the blast zones and the small stage to run around on, and FD due to the combos & chaingrabs G&W has. Every other stage you have a distinct advantage over him on.
Funny enough, I banned FoD instead of FD since I was always standing on the ground dash dancing during our game not using platforms at all. FD is very good for fox if you're a patient player.

Random notes I learned about the matchup:
- Don't try to punish his utilt with a nair or anything like that because there's actually no cooldown frames on G&W utilt (active until frame 29, 29 frames total). Instead, punish with a grab (assuming you're in front of him) because his utilt hitbox will be behind him for the later half of the move.
- Edgeguarding him can be tricky, I realized that his up-b has a lot of priority, so don't sit on stage and try to CC shine like you'd do to a firefox, instead you should be doing either dsmash (using your invincibility of your legs to not get clipped by up-b) or getting invincibility from the ledge and shine bairing similar to how you'd do it for a marth.
- It's good to note that it's not possible for G&W to sweetspot his up-b on Yoshis Story since his up-b goes to high.
- G&W's bair actually has an active hitbox on the first frame he lands, so don't try to be frame perfect with punishing back air, because you'll get snuffed. There's 17(?) frames of landing lag for his bair since he can't L-cancel it, so be a bit more patient with punishing a bair than you would punish a fair.
- G&W actually has a very bad jab, it has a lot of cooldown frames, roughly 12 iirc. So you can definitely punish it if you see if coming. Qerb in particular liked to jab -> wd back jab to try to catch me coming in and punish, but if you time it right you can punish either jab very easily.
- Be wary of CC d-tilt, it's very scary and can lead into a lot of combos or tech chases.
- Due to G&W's awful tech rolls, shine is a great tool in this matchup since it knock him down on the floor.
- G&W will try to jab -> grab a lot, but it's not a true combo since jab has such a long cooldown, so you can time to buffer a roll before his grab comes out.

 

[CunningKitsune]

I actually played against Qerb at Ktar XI this past saturday. The set wasn't uploaded on youtube yet but I can give you a quick rundown on how I think the matchup goes.

Prior to my match with him, I had no idea how to go about the G&W matchup, so everything I did was on the fly. Everything I'm going to say now is stuff that I learned either during my set with him or after my set with him when I looked up some G&W frame data.
General gameplan:
The more patient you play, the better you'll do. The entire set I just dash danced and since G&W has no real approaches, I'd wait for Qerb to do something unsafe (jab, fair) and punish him for it with a grab into u-throw uair. Maybe another uair, but I also made sure to laser him on the way down.
Stages:
In this matchup, fox has the advantage on any stage. The worst ones for him are probably FoD due to the blast zones and the small stage to run around on, and FD due to the combos & chaingrabs G&W has. Every other stage you have a distinct advantage over him on.
Funny enough, I banned FoD instead of FD since I was always standing on the ground dash dancing during our game not using platforms at all. FD is very good for fox if you're a patient player.

Random notes I learned about the matchup:
- Don't try to punish his utilt with a nair or anything like that because there's actually no cooldown frames on G&W utilt (active until frame 29, 29 frames total). Instead, punish with a grab (assuming you're in front of him) because his utilt hitbox will be behind him for the later half of the move.
- Edgeguarding him can be tricky, I realized that his up-b has a lot of priority, so don't sit on stage and try to CC shine like you'd do to a firefox, instead you should be doing either dsmash (using your invincibility of your legs to not get clipped by up-b) or getting invincibility from the ledge and shine bairing similar to how you'd do it for a marth.
- It's good to note that it's not possible for G&W to sweetspot his up-b on Yoshis Story since his up-b goes to high.
- G&W's bair actually has an active hitbox on the first frame he lands, so don't try to be frame perfect with punishing back air, because you'll get snuffed. There's 17(?) frames of landing lag for his bair since he can't L-cancel it, so be a bit more patient with punishing a bair than you would punish a fair.
- G&W actually has a very bad jab, it has a lot of cooldown frames, roughly 12 iirc. So you can definitely punish it if you see if coming. Qerb in particular liked to jab -> wd back jab to try to catch me coming in and punish, but if you time it right you can punish either jab very easily.
- Be wary of CC d-tilt, it's very scary and can lead into a lot of combos or tech chases.
- Due to G&W's awful tech rolls, shine is a great tool in this matchup since it knock him down on the floor.
- G&W will try to jab -> grab a lot, but it's not a true combo since jab has such a long cooldown, so you can time to buffer a roll before his grab comes out.

Much appreciated, Ya Boy GP. I have incorporated your suggestions and credited you as appropriate.

 

[LL87]

I'm really looking forward to reading the updated version ! The last % is taking a long time tho

 

[Boiko]

- It's good to note that it's not possible for G&W to sweetspot his up-b on Yoshis Story since his up-b goes to high.

He can. Just tested.

FTR you should definitely check out GP's set with Qerb. He plays it perfectly.

 

[CunningKitsune]

I am proud to announce that the guide's final major update is complete. Starting today, I will begin to construct the updated version's thread under the new Guides section.

 

[Lanceinthepants]

Good **** cunning

 

[Boomhound]

Smashboards Guides Competition here we go

 

[CunningKitsune]

Hey, guys, wanted to drop a line here about Smashboards' guide contest in which I am participating. I would be most grateful for your vote! Head over to http://smashboards.com/threads/smashboards-guide-contest-vote-here.383246/ and scroll down a bit for the poll. Many thanks in advance, and happy holidays!

 

[CunningKitsune]

Hey, Fox board denizens. To start, thank you very much to all who voted for me in the recent guide contest and helped my work take home the first place prize!

Next, version 6.22 is complete; see the following link for the changelog: http://smashboards.com/guides/guide-to-ace-arwing-pilot-fox-mccloud-updated-for-2015.100/updates

Version 6.22 is also available in PDF form; the download link is available beneath the guide's cover image on its Guides section page.

 

[ManXan]

This is pretty much the Holy Bible to any aspiring Fox main, thank you for this!