SpiderJerusalem
Smash Journeyman
First match I got on camera, so let me know what I can do to improve. Sorry about the quality. There was another set recorded this same night, but it was on a different phone so I need to retrieve that from a friend.
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Critique the **** out of my Sheik
- Thread starter SpiderJerusalem
- Start date
First match I got on camera, so let me know what I can do to improve. Sorry about the quality. There was another set recorded this same night, but it was on a different phone so I need to retrieve that from a friend.
(TLDR at the bottom, sorry for wall of text)
I'm not a great competitive player, but your play reminds me a lot of my own when I was just starting to play competitively, so I'll give you the advice that helped me the most back then. Keep in mind that these points may not be good advice in general - I'm going to recommend some tricks that will be easy to perform and useful for your development, but which are exploitable by experienced players and so should be discarded later.
The main thing that you - and most players in general - need to improve on is reacting to your opponent. The common thread of lower level play is that the two opponents run at each other and throw out an attack, and then the stronger attack or better execution wins and gets to start a combo. Try spending a few matches never initiating or applying pressure, but just trying to bait out something you can punish. And then punishing it!
For the Sheik vs Marth matchup, most or all of your approaches should be on the ground, because Marth has great priority above him. In particular, you approach with a full jump a lot, and this is something you should cut out in favor of more grounded approaches. Try some of these fakes:
- Run toward him, stop with crouch or wavedash in place just outside of fsmash range
- Run toward him and jump back
- Run forward and wavedash back
- Dashdance just outside of range (and retreat as he closes in)
- Stand still as he approaches and at the last minute shield/roll/spotdodge/wavedash back
and then punish with some of sheik's simple combos:
- (JC) Grab, downthrow and tilt (or fair at high %)
- Dash, crouch cancel and down tilt (to tilts and aerials)
- Dash attack to dash attack, tilts, or aerials
- Shffl fair (pretty hard and susceptible to shield grabbing, but an important thing to learn)
You seem to combo pretty well, so I won't go into that, except to say that you should always be looking to finish with a fair. Make the marth fear it!
When you are on the edge, you need to vary up your actions more. The one piece of techskill that I will tell you you have to learn right now no excuses, is ledgehopping. When you are beginning competitive play, this is the one trick that will win you more showdowns than dashdancing or wavedashing or any other fancy movement techniques (that you seem to be learning pretty well). Of course, other stuff like SHFFLing or chaingrabbing is more useful, but ledgehopping is so easy that there are no excuses for not knowing it. Once you know it, drop the slow full jumps or up b's from the edge, because both of these put you in a vulnerable position. Instead, mix it up with:
- Roll from the edge. Very punishable, but often a good option at lower levels.
- Ledgehop fair. If you sweetspot the edge and he throws a laggy attack out during your invincibility frames, this is a great way to get back quickly and punish at the same time.
- Ledgehop airdodge. This is again very punishable, but it's good against a lot of marths who will throw out an fsmash at the first sign of movement.
- Drop and regrab. Just stall a little and refresh your invincibility. Don't come of the edge right away every time, that's predictable!
- Ledge attack (only below 100%)
- Simply standing up (only below 100%)
And of course, you also have to get to the edge safely, so focus on sweet spotting sheiks recovery so that you don't leave a period of vulnerability.
In addition, try just dropping these moves from your repertoire altogether:
- Up b, except off the stage
- Chain
- Zelda (Very rarely useful in recovering, and a definite handicap when you respawn)
- Up and forward smash
- Down air
- All throws except down
- Fulljump approaches
Of course these all have good situational usage, but you need to focus on the bread and butter of what makes Sheik great.
Finally, learn to tech. I take back what I said about ledgehopping - _teching_ is the single easiest techskill you can pick up that will improve your game drastically. Every time you get hit by an attack, you should be landing with a tech (in place or techroll, vary it up). This will allow you to escape some combos and to punish him when he gets too aggressive.
I recommend practicing ledgehopping, movement, and basic combos a couple of times in practice mode, but that's it - most of this stuff you will have to get used to by using it in real play. Every time you play, focus on reacting to your opponent, exploiting openings with bread-and-butter combos, varying your recovery, and teching every single time you get hit. Sheik has a definite edge on Marth except at the highest levels of play, so there's no reason you shouldn't be beating your friend once you start to clean your game up.
TLDR: React to your opponent, rather than rushing in. Focus on grab/tilt/dash attack -> aerial combos. Learn to ledgehop and recover safely from the edge. Learn to tech. Stay on the ground against Marth.
I'm not a great competitive player, but your play reminds me a lot of my own when I was just starting to play competitively, so I'll give you the advice that helped me the most back then. Keep in mind that these points may not be good advice in general - I'm going to recommend some tricks that will be easy to perform and useful for your development, but which are exploitable by experienced players and so should be discarded later.
The main thing that you - and most players in general - need to improve on is reacting to your opponent. The common thread of lower level play is that the two opponents run at each other and throw out an attack, and then the stronger attack or better execution wins and gets to start a combo. Try spending a few matches never initiating or applying pressure, but just trying to bait out something you can punish. And then punishing it!
For the Sheik vs Marth matchup, most or all of your approaches should be on the ground, because Marth has great priority above him. In particular, you approach with a full jump a lot, and this is something you should cut out in favor of more grounded approaches. Try some of these fakes:
- Run toward him, stop with crouch or wavedash in place just outside of fsmash range
- Run toward him and jump back
- Run forward and wavedash back
- Dashdance just outside of range (and retreat as he closes in)
- Stand still as he approaches and at the last minute shield/roll/spotdodge/wavedash back
and then punish with some of sheik's simple combos:
- (JC) Grab, downthrow and tilt (or fair at high %)
- Dash, crouch cancel and down tilt (to tilts and aerials)
- Dash attack to dash attack, tilts, or aerials
- Shffl fair (pretty hard and susceptible to shield grabbing, but an important thing to learn)
You seem to combo pretty well, so I won't go into that, except to say that you should always be looking to finish with a fair. Make the marth fear it!
When you are on the edge, you need to vary up your actions more. The one piece of techskill that I will tell you you have to learn right now no excuses, is ledgehopping. When you are beginning competitive play, this is the one trick that will win you more showdowns than dashdancing or wavedashing or any other fancy movement techniques (that you seem to be learning pretty well). Of course, other stuff like SHFFLing or chaingrabbing is more useful, but ledgehopping is so easy that there are no excuses for not knowing it. Once you know it, drop the slow full jumps or up b's from the edge, because both of these put you in a vulnerable position. Instead, mix it up with:
- Roll from the edge. Very punishable, but often a good option at lower levels.
- Ledgehop fair. If you sweetspot the edge and he throws a laggy attack out during your invincibility frames, this is a great way to get back quickly and punish at the same time.
- Ledgehop airdodge. This is again very punishable, but it's good against a lot of marths who will throw out an fsmash at the first sign of movement.
- Drop and regrab. Just stall a little and refresh your invincibility. Don't come of the edge right away every time, that's predictable!
- Ledge attack (only below 100%)
- Simply standing up (only below 100%)
And of course, you also have to get to the edge safely, so focus on sweet spotting sheiks recovery so that you don't leave a period of vulnerability.
In addition, try just dropping these moves from your repertoire altogether:
- Up b, except off the stage
- Chain
- Zelda (Very rarely useful in recovering, and a definite handicap when you respawn)
- Up and forward smash
- Down air
- All throws except down
- Fulljump approaches
Of course these all have good situational usage, but you need to focus on the bread and butter of what makes Sheik great.
Finally, learn to tech. I take back what I said about ledgehopping - _teching_ is the single easiest techskill you can pick up that will improve your game drastically. Every time you get hit by an attack, you should be landing with a tech (in place or techroll, vary it up). This will allow you to escape some combos and to punish him when he gets too aggressive.
I recommend practicing ledgehopping, movement, and basic combos a couple of times in practice mode, but that's it - most of this stuff you will have to get used to by using it in real play. Every time you play, focus on reacting to your opponent, exploiting openings with bread-and-butter combos, varying your recovery, and teching every single time you get hit. Sheik has a definite edge on Marth except at the highest levels of play, so there's no reason you shouldn't be beating your friend once you start to clean your game up.
TLDR: React to your opponent, rather than rushing in. Focus on grab/tilt/dash attack -> aerial combos. Learn to ledgehop and recover safely from the edge. Learn to tech. Stay on the ground against Marth.
Last edited:
SpiderJerusalem
Smash Journeyman
That's all very good advice, and it helped. Teching is definitely my weakest area as of right now, and I haven't made a habit out of it yet. My ledge game needs a little work too, but I'm trying to piece it together. Thanks again!
IceyBeef
The Supreme Beef Lord
Yea teching you should work on. Im a sheik main myself and btw you should chain grab marth. You can chaingrab for at least 4-5 times. Also DOWNTHROW is the ONLY grab you will use unless you are near edge. When you downthrow, slap in some f tilts and such. More variety in your play ( Dont use too much dash attacks, needles on your part are amazing!) main thing is variety! Gl!!!