Critique Super Smash Bros.

[Perkilator]

I still don’t get how the only FE Fates Music is Lost in Thoughts All Alone four times when there’s plenty of memorable tracks from Fates (especially Road Taken, the second-most iconic theme from Fates).

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Has anyone seen this yet?

Also, this has probably been said before, but... why didn't they do what they did with Wario in Brawl and give (almost) every fighter 2 costume skins with 6(or, at least, 5) color palettes each?

I just saw this video and though about posting the link until I saw it had already been posted.

So this video exists.....and yeah that's about all I can say about it.

The author made a lot of great points that I can stand behind and almost as many that I'm either unsure about or I challenge (mainly his bout about Kirby bias....for the love of God). The online section is skip-able since its all stuff that's already been covered, but I liked how he unraveled classic mode; I learned how I'm not the only one who got bored with it super fast. What I feel most fervent about is how he discussed Rex, which is ironic since I haven't invested a cent in the Xenoblade series. It's ridiculous, in my opinion, how the made the conscious decision to prioritize the 8th Fire Emblem character over the 2nd Xenoblade character....and then compensate Xenoblade fans with a cosmetic locked behind a $25 paywall. That's a major kick in the teeth, and as a Kirby fan I know too well how that feels.

 

[Perkilator]

Hope you like Mario’s and Captain Falcon’s Classic Mode, because aside from WoL, they’re the ONLY ways to fight Giga Bowser.

In fact, I feel like a lot of bosses are underused in general. If I were in charge of which fighter faced which bosses, this is how I'd put it:

Giga Bowser (Giga Bowser is the main theme)
- (King Bowser - Super Mario Bros. 3)
-
- (Death Mountain, then Fated Battle)
-
-
-
- (moved from Galleom)
- (Round 6 w/)

Galleom (Boss Battle Song 1 is the main theme)
-
-
-
-
-
-
- (Round 6; Guts Man Stage)
- (Round 6; An Obstacle in Our Path)
-

Rathalos (Roar/Rathalos is the main theme)
-
-
-
- (Round 6; Fortress Boss - Super Mario Bros 3)
-
- (Id (Purpose))
-
- (Round 6; Let's Hit the Climax!)
-
- (Round 4; Fighting Spirits)

Ganon (Calamity Ganon Phase 2 is the main theme)
-
- (Death Mountain)
-
-
- (Team battle w/)
- (The World to Win)
-
-
- (Team battle w/; Crocodile Cacophony)

Marx (Vs. Marx is the main theme)
-
-
-
- (Tetris Type A)
-
-
- (Fated Battle (Round 6's music is changed to Bowser's Galaxy Generator); team battle w/)
- (Calamari Inkantation)
-

Dracula (Nothing to Lose/Black Night is the main theme)
-
- (Dwelling of Doom)
- (Team battle w/)
-
- (Against the Dark Knight)
-
- (Dwelling of Doom)
-

Master Hand (and Crazy Hand)
- (Team battle w/; New Donk City Hall Ω)
-
- (Kongo Jungle 64 Ω; Final Destination - Super Smash Bros.)
-
-
-
- (Arena Ferox Ω)
- (Team battle w/; Id (Purpose))
-
-
-
- (Kalos League Omega; Battle! Steven)
-
- (M. Bison Stage Type A)
- (Suzaku Castle Ω; Alight (Storm))
-
- (Mementos Ω; Our Beginning)
- (KOF Stadium Ω; Soy Sauce for Geese - FATAL FURY SPECIAL)
- (Garreg Mach Monastery Ω; Code Name F.E.)
-ARMS Character (Sky Arena)

Crazy Hand only
-
-
- (Battle! Lorekeeper Zinnia)
-
- (Dracula’s Castle Ω; Lost King's Supper)
- (Dracula’s Castle Ω; Dance of Illusions)

 

[Perkilator]

Now that I think of it, plenty of characters (not even counting Echoes) should’ve gotten at least one change to their moveset:

- should’ve had Cappy as a grab
- should’ve gotten more of his Copy abilities in his normal attacks
- should’ve used his 3 transformation masks as his specials
- should’ve kept the Three Sacred Treasures as his Final Smash, and should’ve used the Lightning Chariot
- should’ve gotten the Light Speed Dash as his
- should’ve gotten Bomb Jump as his

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

should’ve had Cappy as a grab

How would that work?

 

[Perkilator]

How would that work?

You press the grab button to launch Cappy out, and then he zips back to you when you grab a fighter.

 

[Deleted member]

You press the grab button to launch Cappy out, and then he zips back to you when you grab a fighter.

And maybe, he'd use Cappy to throw the opponent

 

[Perkilator]

Gust Bellows seriously needed a nerf; something like a small suck-in of air, and then a burst with that amount of air.

 

[Deleted member]

- should’ve gotten more of his Copy abilities in his normal attacks

I personally think Kirby's moveset should be completely redone, Inhale is to gimmicky to be useful and his Normals don't represent his series at all.

- should’ve gotten the Light Speed Dash as his

I'd like to see the boost from the Modern Sonic games, a momentum based move that gives Sonic a burst of speed, and anyone he touches will get hit back a bit. If the button is held then Sonic will boost for longer, but it can released so he can perform moves such as his aerials will retaining the speed from the boost.

Speaking of Aerials, I'd like to see his N-Air changed to the Insta-Shield, which would would have a similar size to the hitbox of his current N-air, but it last for less time, and provides a few frames of invincibility.

 

[Perkilator]

I personally think Kirby's moveset should be completely redone, Inhale is to gimmicky to be useful and his Normals don't represent his series at all.


I'd like to see the boost from the Modern Sonic games, a momentum based move that gives Sonic a burst of speed, and anyone he touches will get hit back a bit. If the button is held then Sonic will boost for longer, but it can released so he can perform moves such as his aerials will retaining the speed from the boost.

Speaking of Aerials, I'd like to see his N-Air changed to the Insta-Shield, which would would have a similar size to the hitbox of his current N-air, but it last for less time, and provides a few frames of invincibility.

For Kirby, that’s somewhat what I meant. I was mainly referencing this artwork by TKOWL on Twitter:

I've always been sad that Kirby hasn't been a super viable fighter throughout the Smash series and that a fair bit of his moveset were just kicks and stuff, so I did some theoretical moveset switch-ups to improve him and represent the series a little more. pic.twitter.com/vc0vQDFp6Q

— Ryan's Art Account (@TKOWL_Art) May 6, 2019

As for Sonic, I think the Boost, while not a bad idea, might be more gimmicky with its momentum than you claim Kirby’s Copy Ability to be (no offense). That being said, I LOVE the idea of the Insta-Shield as an N-Air!

There’s your critique, UserKev

 

[UserKev]

The menus are getting lamer and lamer and uninspiring. Smash Bros should definitely go back to its simplistic and more silent menu layouts. Using characters to sum modes are redundant and too friendly.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

The menus are getting lamer and lamer and uninspiring. Smash Bros should definitely go back to its simplistic and more silent menu layouts. Using characters to sum modes are redundant and too friendly.

I like Brawl's Menu Layout.

 

[Perkilator]

A trend I’ve noticed is that Ultimate tends to rush things for the sake of the “EH WUNNUH GET BACK TO DEH MATCSH” crowd. This is apparent with:

• Speeding up certain victory themes
• Making several Final Smashes cinematic (not that I mind this) or just giving slightly less control
• Only raising difficulty when you finish the match quicker (EVEN WITH A DARN TICKET)
• Making sped-up versions of past remixes

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

A trend I’ve noticed is that Ultimate tends to rush things for the sake of the “EH WUNNUH GET BACK TO DEH MATCSH” crowd. This is apparent with:

• Speeding up certain victory themes
• Making several Final Smashes cinematic (not that I mind this) or just giving slightly less control
• Only raising difficulty when you finish the match quicker (EVEN WITH A DARN TICKET)
• Making sped-up versions of past remixes

Mostly related to the difficulty thing. I honestly have preferred a more static difficulty. Yes, you can maximum win with some guys easier than others(Toon Link), but it also feels kind of awkward to move higher on the scale. Maybe you don't want that difficulty jump? Basing it solely upon speed of the match is annoying, imo.

Like you'd just need to beat each higher difficulty once. This applies to 4 as well. You could have 0, 1, 2, 3, etc. till 9. Spending cash/tickets/etc. get annoying as is. A ticket for better drops/removing a game over is fair.

Related, I'd prefer if they added it back when you can control your base starting lives per match. Beating the game with more lives could easily make your drops a little better per number of live left. It doesn't need to be a massive jump in bonus content either.

--------------

Speaking of, I miss bonuses. Now, I get why the Melee ones are gone. Those got too much. But the Brawl ones were fine. No lives lost was fine. They were just cute fun ones, with no real big thing to them other than at best getting an unlock on the giant screen. Related to that, I'm not sure I find the mural-like screen for that neat compared to the neat and organized squares of Brawl and 4. They're both very nice regardless, and at least Ultimate gives you all the details immediately. ...No I can't remember the term for what kind of screens they are. >.<;

 

[UserKev]

I like Brawl's Menu Layout.

The first 3 instalments, the menus at least still made Smash 64/Melee/Brawl feel interesting. More recent instalments really wants to beat plainness while failing miserably.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The one thing that should probably be asked is why Dr. Mario is the only fighter who's affected by a negative multiplier. Equipment doesn't even exist in Ultimate, and yet Dr. Mario acts as if he's equipped with -65 speed; ground attributes are presumably multiplied by 0.7942; aerial attributes are presumably multiplied by 0.7648.

I get that Dr. Mario is supposed to be a slower and stronger Mario, but the negative multiplier feels so unnecessary when the developers could just alter his parameter data. But even then, the speed reduction shouldn't be too excessive; around 0.9x seems fair enough.

 

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

should’ve gotten Bomb Jump as his

I also have one for Pac-Man.
He should’ve gotten Butt Bounce as his

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

The one thing that should probably be asked is why Dr. Mario is the only fighter who's affected by a negative multiplier. Equipment doesn't even exist in Ultimate, and yet Dr. Mario acts as if he's equipped with -65 speed; ground attributes are presumably multiplied by 0.7942; aerial attributes are presumably multiplied by 0.7648.

I get that Dr. Mario is supposed to be a slower and stronger Mario, but the negative multiplier feels so unnecessary when the developers could just alter his parameter data. But even then, the speed reduction shouldn't be too excessive; around 0.9x seems fair enough.

If anything, Dr. Mario should be faster and stronger, but frailer than Regular Mario. I.E. the Glass Cannon/ Kage Ryu.

I also have one for Pac-Man.
He should’ve gotten Butt Bounce as his

- Bonus Fruit
- Rev Roll
- PAC Chain
- Butt Bounce

Also, get rid of that GALAGA Tractor Beam!

 

[Mogisthelioma]

If anything, Dr. Mario should be faster and stronger, but frailer than Regular Mario. I.E. the Glass Cannon/ Kage Ryu.

I sort of disagree. He's wearing a frock and carrying around medical equipment, it kind of makes sense how he's slower. I think it would be better if his attacks came out faster, since doctors have to be quick to respond at all times.

 

[Perkilator]

(*sigh*) I sincerely wish the raising of Classic Mode’s intensity was based on bonuses (could be a mix of Brawl’s and Melee’s) instead of your speed and damage.

 

[chikin]

I sort of disagree. He's wearing a frock and carrying around medical equipment, it kind of makes sense how he's slower. I think it would be better if his attacks came out faster, since doctors have to be quick to respond at all times.

He should weigh more then Mario because he’s carrying more stuff.

 

[Just a random scrub]

He should weigh more then Mario because he’s carrying more stuff.

Yeah, I always thought Captain Falcon/Link's weight would be about right.

 

[Lenidem]

He should weigh more then Mario because he’s carrying more stuff.

A single stéthoscope doesn't weigh much... As for the vitamins, he seems to make them appear magically. But he could be heavier because he doesn't exercise.

Also Peach should have a nurse alt.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

If anything, Dr. Mario should be faster and stronger, but frailer than Regular Mario. I.E. the Glass Cannon/ Kage Ryu.

A single stéthoscope doesn't weigh much... As for the vitamins, he seems to make them appear magically. But he could be heavier because he doesn't exercise.

Also Peach should have a nurse alt.

That makes her dress short? She needs her dress long.

 

[Perkilator]

[QUOTE="asia_catdog_blue, post: 23923630, member: 182646"
Also, get rid of that GALAGA Tractor Beam![/QUOTE]
Sorry, but I don’t agree. The Galaga tractor beam makes perfect sense as a grab. And besides, it was improved MASSIVELY from Smash 4.

Anyways, I was fiddling with how controls work with a sideways Joy-Con, and I discovered that the only way to taunt with this control style is to PRESS the control stick, and then either Y, X, A or B. R/L and ZR/ZL made WAY more sense as taunt buttons, and yet they’re limited to:

• Jump
• Attack
• Special
• Shield

 

[Deleted member]

That makes her dress short? She needs her dress long.

The dress is long enough. And besides that, you can leave the effects.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sonic is supposed to be the fastest runner, and yet he loses to Hero's Acceleratle? Sounds unacceptable if you asked me.

 

[Necro'lic]

Sonic is supposed to be the fastest runner, and yet he loses to Hero's Acceleratle? Sounds unacceptable if you asked me.

Well then slow down Acceleratle or speed up Sonic? I think Sonic is fast enough for this game, and any faster would end up being uncomfortable for both sides, so I pick the former.

 

[UserKev]

Bowser Jr. Final Smash isn't poorly executed but could be more expandable. Hate to remember that Shadow Mario is a highly missed transformation option for Jr.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Well then slow down Acceleratle or speed up Sonic? I think Sonic is fast enough for this game, and any faster would end up being uncomfortable for both sides, so I pick the former.

Acceleratle's stat boosts are definitely off the charts when compared to the Monado Arts and Limit Break. Even with the Speed Monado Art, Shulk (and Kirby) could never compete with Sonic's running.

 

[Deleted member]

Hate to remember that Shadow Mario is a highly missed transformation option for Jr.

The issue would probably be with all the other alts, so they decided to make it as unoticeable as possible.

 

[UserKev]

The issue would probably be with all the other alts, so they decided to make it as unoticeable as possible.

Bruh, can you imagine how exciting an addition Bowser Jr. could be in Smash? Shadow Mario could have made use with the paint brush variant, you have his Final Smash that already blends them.

This miss opportunity is starting to hurt

 

[Diddy Kong]

The unique characterisation of characters seems completely gone. The cast doesn't blend as much as it tries to look like. Doesn't come natural like in games as the original, Melee or Brawl. Ultimate in general just seems like a project of how many characters could possibly fit into Smash. It definitely has its advantages, but this is a big negative for me.

Ultimate's engine is both great and terrible. It's completely unpredictable, and very aggressively offense based. Yet the neutral is completely chaotic and hard to predict. Whereas Smash 4 required some strategic foresight, I feel Ultimate does a step backwards in this direction. Melee does better in what Ultimate tries to achieve in this regard.

Online play is a joke. Terribly laggy as well. They should've learned to at least improve it by now. Think it's also a consequence of adding in so many characters as the main priority.

There's no reason honestly to play 1 Player Mode besides unlocking everything. Either add more modes to VS mode and focus mostly on the fighting aspect, or just leave it at mostly Ultimate's engine and focus on a more intense version of a worthwhile 1 Player Mode as a mix of World of Light, Subspace and Adventure Mode. As it stands right now, I feel that World of Light was a mistake. Resourceful, but not necessarily grand or glorious like even Subspace and Adventure Mode seemed to achieve better.

Items are stupid. Can't bear to play with them.

Many first party veteran franchises have been overlooked with regards to characters. Mainly, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Kirby, and previously Metroid, but that's handled now. These franchises are amongst the building blocks of Smash Bros., and it's this what makes me feel Smash hasn't respected it's roots too much. These sorts of new additions should be about as common as getting new characters from Mario and Pokémon. It wasn't Mario and Pikachu crossing over that made Smash as big as it is. Smash just took huge advantage of marketing Pokémon greatly at a very early and prosperous moment. But faces as DK, Link, Yoshi, Kirby especially also made Smash a strong first crossover for Nintendo. Otherwise it might as well have been a Mario characters Vs Pokémon crossover game.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

[QUOTE="asia_catdog_blue, post: 23923630, member: 182646"
Also, get rid of that GALAGA Tractor Beam!

Sorry, but I don’t agree. The Galaga tractor beam makes perfect sense as a grab. And besides, it was improved MASSIVELY from Smash 4.

Anyways, I was fiddling with how controls work with a sideways Joy-Con, and I discovered that the only way to taunt with this control style is to PRESS the control stick, and then either Y, X, A or B. R/L and ZR/ZL made WAY more sense as taunt buttons, and yet they’re limited to:

• Jump
• Attack
• Special
• Shield

[/QUOTE]
I say a Platform Fighter works better as a 6-Button Game; a la, the SNES.

you get everything needed on those button, plus, Start + Select.

Also, Does GALAGA have anything to do with PAC-MAN?

 

[UserKev]

Bosses needs to be reimagined. You have Bowser, King K. Rool, Ganondorf and Ridley, bosses for Kirby, Pikachu, etc aren't needed since Master Hand is the most neutrally option. Give specific characters special treatment and nods.

For Mario, make his boss a nod to the classic 8 bit Super Mario Bros. The player has to duke it out with a slower buffed metal like Bowser that is un flinchable. Bowser becomes knock-able after certain damage.

For Samus, make her boss fight a nod to Metroid. You fight against a floaty Ridley on a stage that goes up in a straight angle. You have to knock Ridley upward to beat the match. Otherwise, both characters are ping pong balls.

Etc

 

[Lenidem]

Yeah, I don't know if it is a popular opinion or not, but I think Smash Bros. could do very well without bosses, except for the Hands. As much as I enjoy fighting Ganon, I assume they take a lot of time to develop and are pretty much forgetable anyway. I'd rather sacrifice them all and get one more playable stage, or even one Echo, something like that.

 

[Super Toaster]

My main complaints for Ultimate are:
-GSP is a pointless addition that only serves to make people frustrated or discourage rematches
-World of light is a long and uninteresting grind that adds nothing to the game.
-They didn't bring back the two separate modes for casual and competitive players so these players will be forced to play with each other

...but everyone already knows about all that so I guess if I was going to nitpick:
-Menu music should be WAY easier to unlock than it is (beating world of light)
-Many of the music settings virtually remove songs from the game and you have to go through and readjust to hear the full soundtrack
-Not being able to change character while waiting in line sucks
-I'm sorta tired of seeing so many Lucinas online; maybe it's just because a lot of the FE characters play similar but it feels like this is 30% of all my matches

 

[Deleted member]

I say a Platform Fighter works better as a 6-Button Game; a la, the SNES.

you get everything needed on those button, plus, Start + Select.

Also, Does GALAGA have anything to do with PAC-MAN?

Galaxian (Galaga’s predecessor) appears as a collectible in PAC-MAN, plus he’s supposed to represent classic Namco Arcade games, not just PAC-MAN games.

 

[UserKev]

Yeah, I don't know if it is a popular opinion or not, but I think Smash Bros. could do very well without bosses, except for the Hands. As much as I enjoy fighting Ganon, I assume they take a lot of time to develop and are pretty much forgetable anyway. I'd rather sacrifice them all and get one more playable stage, or even one Echo, something like that.

I honestly can't see Smash other than the looks of 64, Melee and Brawl. I think Smash's newer aesthetics as of recent is too colorful. I miss Smash's rated T feeling, Idk. There's just something about the older aesthetics, old school Smash just feel more badass.

The gameplay in Smash 4 is still excellent while everything else feels flat and empty.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Galaxian (Galaga’s predecessor) appears as a collectible in PAC-MAN, plus he’s supposed to represent classic Namco Arcade games, not just PAC-MAN games.

In a similar ordeal, Terry's Spirit Board covers more than just the Fatal Fury series, as it also contains characters from other SNK franchises.