Create a Fighter! - The future of Miis and Customization?

[osby]

So, a few days ago zero made a video of Mii Brawler in Smash 4 getting early kills. It's titled 'KEEP MIIS BANNED'.

The video is pretty much just him cackling like a hyena while showing off kills at roughly 50-60%. ...As if Bayonetta wasn't doing the same thing.

We might want to get ahead of this. If we don't have a strong PR front on this topic, it's very likely **** like this will end in our characters of choice being banned again.

If they are banned, I won't take this tier list seriously. They were banned for no reason last time.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

I didn't take their tier list seriously back then either.

Didn't change the fact they went ahead with their tier list and their stupid-ass ban on the Miis despite numerous compromises offered to preserve the characters.

Mind you, let us be fair. There was a reason for the original ban. It was a stupid reason, but it was a reason. They got spooked by Tiny Brawler doing kills around 50-60%. Okay, fair enough. ...Then they stuck with the ban despite us offering to get rid of Tiny Miis to prevent that. No such luck. Then they let Bayonetta rock despite doing kills even earlier than Tiny Brawler.

Their justification at that point was "the Miis aren't real characters." What the **** ever. They represent one of the most iconic aspects of the Wii system, they're a huge part of Nintendo's history. If we're going to use that absurd line of reasoning then we need to ban ROB because he was a hardware accessory and not a true character in his own right back on the NES. They likewise need to ban Duck Hunt, because the player, wielding a NES Zapper, is part of the Duck Hunt package in Smash and I know none of us are actually Nintendo characters either.

Not that I'm seriously calling for banning Duck Hunt and ROB. I'm more trying to call out just how absolutely stupid the Mii ban was.

 

[osby]

I didn't take their tier list seriously back then either.

Didn't change the fact they went ahead with their tier list and their stupid-*** ban on the Miis despite numerous compromises offered to preserve the characters.

Mind you, let us be fair. There was a reason for the original ban. It was a stupid reason, but it was a reason. They got spooked by Tiny Brawler doing kills around 50-60%. Okay, fair enough. ...Then they stuck with the ban despite us offering to get rid of Tiny Miis to prevent that. No such luck. Then they let Bayonetta rock despite doing kills even earlier than Tiny Brawler.

Their justification at that point was "the Miis aren't real characters." What the **** ever. They represent one of the most iconic aspects of the Wii system, they're a huge part of Nintendo's history. If we're going to use that absurd line of reasoning then we need to ban ROB because he was a hardware accessory and not a true character in his own right back on the NES. They likewise need to ban Duck Hunt, because the player, wielding a NES Zapper, is part of the Duck Hunt package in Smash and I know none of us are actually Nintendo characters either.

Not that I'm seriously calling for banning Duck Hunt and ROB. I'm more trying to call out just how absolutely stupid the Mii ban was.

In right conditions, Sonic and ZSS can get earlier kills, that's no excuse. And a lot of people calls Miis trash, so... which one?
Yeah, they were no different than Palutena in their default size. Tournament scene is just weirdly conservative and I think they didn't think too hard about banning such a "casual" character.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Most of the Miis as we understood them DID suck competitively. Tiny Brawler was the exception, and his dominance was very short lived.

In the end it was more of a case of "Rghrhrhrngngnhn MUH COMPETITIVE PURITY" that carried the bans, even when it made no damn sense. The Miis weren't like a Starman or a Heart or a Bellows or so on.

I seem to recall there was some horse**** about how the top esports pro players of super-proness would have to learn a million more matchups for each height/width variation of the Miis, which made no sense since the variations had trivial differences up until the size settings hit very specific thresholds. It was more like having to learn two variations for each Mii, because nobody in their right mind was going to run a heavy Mii. And we offered to make it just one variation, 50-50 default size.

They still declined. That was the point where I quit taking mvd, zero, etc. seriously. They might be more skilled than I, but they're still hypocrites. I note none of them are boycotting Smash 5, despite the fact it adds several new matchups to learn and I thought they just couldn't spare the time to do that for the Miis? But they can do it for Ice Climbers, Young Link, Wolf, etc.

So they're basically inconsistent liars about what their problem really is.

At this point I'm content to say these so-called 'top players' just hate fun.

 

[Gallowglass]

I don't really care about the competativness of Mii's. I would rather have more control to make them the way I want. Maybe some less complex custom options like not tying items to skill sets. I think it should be a point system. You have a selected amount of points and you can add it in Attack, Speed, Defense, Jump, Special, Arms (The stats featured in Smash Tour). You can also spend points in special abilities like auto-heal, item starters, etc. The cost of the ability would vary depending on how good it is.

 

[Ridel]

Most of the Miis as we understood them DID suck competitively. Tiny Brawler was the exception, and his dominance was very short lived.

In the end it was more of a case of "Rghrhrhrngngnhn MUH COMPETITIVE PURITY" that carried the bans, even when it made no damn sense. The Miis weren't like a Starman or a Heart or a Bellows or so on.

I seem to recall there was some horse**** about how the top esports pro players of super-proness would have to learn a million more matchups for each height/width variation of the Miis, which made no sense since the variations had trivial differences up until the size settings hit very specific thresholds. It was more like having to learn two variations for each Mii, because nobody in their right mind was going to run a heavy Mii. And we offered to make it just one variation, 50-50 default size.

They still declined. That was the point where I quit taking mvd, zero, etc. seriously. They might be more skilled than I, but they're still hypocrites. I note none of them are boycotting Smash 5, despite the fact it adds several new matchups to learn and I thought they just couldn't spare the time to do that for the Miis? But they can do it for Ice Climbers, Young Link, Wolf, etc.

So they're basically inconsistent liars about what their problem really is.

At this point I'm content to say these so-called 'top players' just hate fun.

I think your assessment is accurate, though I wouldn't say that top players hate fun. They like having fun, evidently they don't find Brawler's (nonexistent) early percent kills fun, therefore they can easily ban it thanks to the logistical inconsistencies of Miis. It's not really fun hating, it's just being selfish.

 

[mobilisq]

so, hey, if you guys have watched as much of the currently available footage as I have you might have noticed the change to how character colors are now picked from a little popup window. I have a feeling that's how the mii moves will be chosen too. quick menu option right before the match starts, so your can swap them on the fly and your opponent knows exactly what to expect for the next match

fingers crossed

 

[Pegasus Knight]

so, hey, if you guys have watched as much of the currently available footage as I have you might have noticed the change to how character colors are now picked from a little popup window

This would be awesome if it happened. It takes 5 seconds and will literally let the opponent know what to expect, just as you said.

The only problem I see is that then the ban crowd will whine "This gives you built-in counterpicking on your main" or some crap like that.

 

[mobilisq]

I'm feeling pretty optimistic that everything this gen will get its chance right out the gate

 

[Tybis]

Most of the Miis as we understood them DID suck competitively. Tiny Brawler was the exception, and his dominance was very short lived.

In the end it was more of a case of "Rghrhrhrngngnhn MUH COMPETITIVE PURITY" that carried the bans, even when it made no damn sense. The Miis weren't like a Starman or a Heart or a Bellows or so on.

I seem to recall there was some horse**** about how the top esports pro players of super-proness would have to learn a million more matchups for each height/width variation of the Miis, which made no sense since the variations had trivial differences up until the size settings hit very specific thresholds. It was more like having to learn two variations for each Mii, because nobody in their right mind was going to run a heavy Mii. And we offered to make it just one variation, 50-50 default size.

They still declined. That was the point where I quit taking mvd, zero, etc. seriously. They might be more skilled than I, but they're still hypocrites. I note none of them are boycotting Smash 5, despite the fact it adds several new matchups to learn and I thought they just couldn't spare the time to do that for the Miis? But they can do it for Ice Climbers, Young Link, Wolf, etc.

So they're basically inconsistent liars about what their problem really is.

At this point I'm content to say these so-called 'top players' just hate fun.

It's not that they hate fun. It's just that Smash players in general are scrubs.

 

[AEMehr]

So, a few days ago zero made a video of Mii Brawler in Smash 4 getting early kills. It's titled 'KEEP MIIS BANNED'.

The video is pretty much just him cackling like a hyena while showing off kills at roughly 50-60%. ...As if Bayonetta wasn't doing the same thing.

We might want to get ahead of this. If we don't have a strong PR front on this topic, it's very likely **** like this will end in our characters of choice being banned again.

It's a meme video where he plays as small mii brawler.

It's a clickbait vod my dude don't take it seriously.

 

[Camc10]

It's a meme video where he plays as small mii brawler.

It's a clickbait vod my dude don't take it seriously.

Leo surprisingly got some Med mii piston punch kills off Zero too. but about competitive, i feel the big reason they banned mii was because people thought they had to be fair and allow customs for everyone else. Ike a all or nothing scenario.

 

[DNeon]

So what do you guys think are the chances for a Mii Fighter Mage/Wizard/Magician or whatever still making it in? They could potentially pick up some of Palutena's dropped moves but there's still plenty of magic fighter specials that aren't really covered (with that likely growing if Ashley and Skull Kid's AT absence is a sign of anything).

 

[AEMehr]

Leo surprisingly got some Med mii piston punch kills off Zero too. but about competitive, i feel the big reason they banned mii was because people thought they had to be fair and allow customs for everyone else. Ike a all or nothing scenario.

It's always been argued that because the Mii Fighters were not limited to the Customs On/Off switch, that they should be allowed to use their other specials. Alongside the fact that when a Mii Fighter is added to your roster, you are then put into the menu to select what special moves you'd like them to have.

If Brawler's Up Special 2 or 3 weren't so explosive, I'm sure we might have had them pretty easily legal. But those two moves are really too strong for their own good, and if you don't know the specifics on how to avoid getting KO'd by them it's quite easy to lose your stocks really early. They were objectively not really well-balanced attacks (the utility for recovery is still too good for them to be such strong kill options / combo-enders).

Additionally, since customs were abandoned really early into the game's lifespan, Mii Fighters having specials allowed in a setting where they were only allowed be guest-sized wasn't really tested. Miis were all Small during EVO of 2015, only specific sets of Brawler were Medium-Sized but the small one had the same moves and was obviously the better option.
- - - - -

So what do you guys think are the chances for a Mii Fighter Mage/Wizard/Magician or whatever still making it in? They could potentially pick up some of Palutena's dropped moves but there's still plenty of magic fighter specials that aren't really covered (with that likely growing if Ashley and Skull Kid's AT absence is a sign of anything).

I feel like a Magician is far too specific of a theme for a new Mii Fighter type, the Mii Fighters are based on archetypes and fighting styles. I'm not against a Magic-based Mii Fighter, I just don't think one fits the design philosophy they had in mind when creating them.

 

[DNeon]

I feel like a Magician is far too specific of a theme for a new Mii Fighter type, the Mii Fighters are based on archetypes and fighting styles. I'm not against a Magic-based Mii Fighter, I just don't think one fits the design philosophy they had in mind when creating them.

Personally I think that Palutena basically just took the place of a Mage Mii fighter, there's still plenty of 'magic style' abilities left, and given the way the likes of Ashley and Viridi were sword fighters shows the inadequacy of their current archetypes (not to mention how many magic characters may not have been considered for mii costumes because they couldn't fit). Not to mention the 'magic' moves that were already adapted into Mii Gunner (PK Fire/Arc-Fire, PSI Magnet, the magical launches of Pit/Rosaluma).

And here's a list of possible magic moves that exist and aren't covered by the the current Miis and exist in more than one character:

Projectiles:

• Water Blast (Squirtle/Greninja/Mario)
• Flamethrower (Charizard/Bowser)
• Bouncing Projectile (Mario/Pikachu/kinda Dedede)
• Controlled Projectile (Zelda/Pit/Snake)
• Returning Projectile (Links/Megaman Custom)

Recoveries:

• Teleport (Zelda/Mewtwo/Shiek/Palutena)
• Summoned Trampoline (Megaman/Pacman/Sonic)
• Summoned Bird (Megaman Custom/Duck Hunt/Olimar/Villager/Snake)
• Jump Glide (Palutena/Peach)
• Tether (Ivysaur, look it may be bad but it's possible)
• Tornado Hold (I just don't want to see such a cool Megaman Custom disappear)
• PK Thunder (Lucas/Ness)
• Mashing Air Spin (Wario/Dr. Mario/Luigi)

Miscelaneous:

• Speed Boost (Shulk/Palutena)
• Charged Explosion (Roy/Ike/Kirby and Dedede Hammers)
• Command Grab (Robin/Kirby/Dedede for the specifically magic looking ones)
• Ice of some kind (ICs/Lucas/G&W/Megaman Custom)
• Stun/Sleep (ZSS/Mewtwo/Jigglypuff)
• Exploding/Tripping Trap Item (ROB/Diddy/Duck Hunt/Bowser Jr/Link/Snake)

 

[AEMehr]

Personally I think that Palutena basically just took the place of a Mage Mii fighter, there's still plenty of 'magic style' abilities left, and given the way the likes of Ashley and Viridi were sword fighters shows the inadequacy of their current archetypes (not to mention how many magic characters may not have been considered for mii costumes because they couldn't fit). Not to mention the 'magic' moves that were already adapted into Mii Gunner (PK Fire/Arc-Fire, PSI Magnet, the magical launches of Pit/Rosaluma).

And here's a list of possible magic moves that exist and aren't covered by the the current Miis and exist in more than one character:

Projectiles:

• Water Blast (Squirtle/Greninja/Mario)
• Flamethrower (Charizard/Bowser)
• Bouncing Projectile (Mario/Pikachu/kinda Dedede)
• Controlled Projectile (Zelda/Pit/Snake)
• Returning Projectile (Links/Megaman Custom)

Recoveries:

• Teleport (Zelda/Mewtwo/Shiek/Palutena)
• Summoned Trampoline (Megaman/Pacman/Sonic)
• Summoned Bird (Megaman Custom/Duck Hunt/Olimar/Villager/Snake)
• Jump Glide (Palutena/Peach)
• Tether (Ivysaur, look it may be bad but it's possible)
• Tornado Hold (I just don't want to see such a cool Megaman Custom disappear)
• PK Thunder (Lucas/Ness)
• Mashing Air Spin (Wario/Dr. Mario/Luigi)

Miscelaneous:

• Speed Boost (Shulk/Palutena)
• Charged Explosion (Roy/Ike/Kirby and Dedede Hammers)
• Command Grab (Robin/Kirby/Dedede for the specifically magic looking ones)
• Ice of some kind (ICs/Lucas/G&W/Megaman Custom)
• Stun/Sleep (ZSS/Mewtwo/Jigglypuff)
• Exploding/Tripping Trap Item (ROB/Diddy/Duck Hunt/Bowser Jr/Link/Snake)

I was moreso referring to the theme of the Mii Fighters themselves having no theme in the previous game.
They were very plain in the previous title, the only real character in their designs was their weapons they used to fight (Brawler's gloves/boots, Sword's Sword, Gunner's Arm-Cannon and Motion Capture stuff). As a whole, the characters were meant to be very plain/basic so you could fit in anybody into their shoes pretty easily. Fist fighting, Swordplay, and Weapon usage are very commonplace fighting styles that many characters can be adapted to. There was still a lot of liberties when making costumes for these fighters, such as the Isabelle and K.K. Slider outfit choices for the Mii Gunner. Or the two you mentioned, Ashley and Viridi, for the Mii Swordfighter. I mean the whole point of them was to be plain so you could try to fit anybody onto them, if they follow the same philosophy I think a Mage is too specific of a fighting style.

But, a lot has seemed to change in this game. The appearance of the Mii Fighters themselves has been given a whole lot more character and we will be getting 12 voice-options for them too (6 Male / 6 Female probably). I mean it doesn't really mean much right now since we don't know much, but with the Mii Fighters becoming more like characters instead of avatars I guess it is possible for them to change the philosophy regarding them. I mean it didn't really work last time for a lot of their core player-base.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

I'm going to take a 'meme video' seriously when it's made by a man who argued at length to ban our characters from tournaments for no good reason. Mockery is part of social discourse, after all. There is no reason to presume good faith on zero's part, as he has repeatedly proven he does not act in good faith when it comes to the Miis.

As for having new Mii Fighter classes... I would love to see that. Mii Mage, Mii Polearm Fighter, and so on. I don't see it happening since Sakurai and his team already have a gargantuan task in front of them, and won't be the least bit upset if none of these appear... but damnit I can dream. We can all dream.

Nonetheless, what we have now is pretty damn awesome. We basically get the option to put ourselves in the game. You can go toe to toe with Mario, fight alongside Palutena, compare your blade against Cloud Strife's, and punch Pichu in the face. That is a dream feature any way you think of i t.

 

[DNeon]

As a whole, the characters were meant to be very plain/basic so you could fit in anybody into their shoes pretty easily. Fist fighting, Swordplay, and Weapon usage are very commonplace fighting styles that many characters can be adapted to. [...] I mean the whole point of them was to be plain so you could try to fit anybody onto them, if they follow the same philosophy I think a Mage is too specific of a fighting style.

The thing is, Gunner is just 'Mage but sci-fi'. The only difference between Sci-Fi and magic is the animation you give it. In reality there are just as many 'magic' fighters as there are 'gunner' fighters in Sm4sh.

Gunners: and I guess
Mages: and you could even extend it to(thematically for WFT)

As for what differentiates the 'playstyles' between gunner and mage? well gunners tend to be straight forward, literally, their attacks tend to be single directional and have a singular property to them, often ending on the first target hit where-as the magic playstyle tends to be more omnidirectional, have a more lasting presence and sometimes change properties as it's charged.

he only real character in their designs was their weapons they used to fight (Brawler's gloves/boots, Sword's Sword, Gunner's Arm-Cannon and Motion Capture stuff)

As for simplistic looks, much like a swordsman is just a sword holding Mii, Gunner is a Mii with an arm-cannon and Brawler is just a Mii with...not all skins even really had gloves they just took a martial art pose...a Magician Mii could just have a wand or a staff. Even be adapted to a scroll or book. If most of the magic casting animation comes from the empty hand it doesn't really matter what they hold for the sake of animation consistency. And even if it's done with the hand that's holding the item...it's magic, it can manifest in front of the hand anyway. That's still very flexible.

I digress though. I'm wondering if this should take place in a thread on the newcomer section or if it's on topic since this seems to be discussion for the whole of the Mii Fighter list.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

I think what's more likely is they'll add some magic-themed costumes for Gunner. We already had the wizard robes and hat for them, as I recall.

So long as they add a few more specials that match that, or allow visual 'skins' for the attacks to match it, I'm fine with this. Imagine converting Missile into magical energy but it otherwise acts the same, for example.

 

[Gallowglass]

I'm not against the "Mage" Mii but I'm not sure what his role is in the game. For example,

Brawler: Close Range
Swordsman: Mid-Range
Gunner: Long Range

So, what makes the Mage Mii special? I do like the more omnidirectional idea above but I'm not sure if that's enough. Not trying to criticized but more flesh out this idea.

I wish I played Miitopia as it seems to have a lot of good ideas for Mii characters.

 

[DreamcastBoy99]

I hope one of the voice options is Link’s Melee voice recycled, bc we could use it to make Hiei or Batsu.

 

[Ridel]

Everyone is sleeping on the next logical inclusion...Mii Puppeteer. A duo that functions similarly to Rosalina and Luma with the default puppet character being Monita from Nintendo Land.

Obviously I'm not being serious but I think Mii Mage just doesn't fill any special archetype gameplay wise and just seems to be a more thematic inclusion.

 

[Gallowglass]

Everyone is sleeping on the next logical inclusion...Mii Puppeteer. A duo that functions similarly to Rosalina and Luma with the default puppet character being Monita from Nintendo Land.

Obviously I'm not being serious but I think Mii Mage just doesn't fill any special archetype gameplay wise and just seems to be a more thematic inclusion.

Well that is an original idea.

I was kind of going to another specialized character. What about Mii Thief? Uses traps and controlling. He uses double daggers in ice pick grip. One of his down specials could be set a trap like Snake's Down Smash (or is it down standard?). It could do a different effect like ground them, shock them. Another attack could be like a deku nut that does a flash that stuns them.

 

[AEMehr]

I'm open to there being a Mii focused on trapping opponents since Gunner lacks tools to really do that. I still just feel that the theme for something like that would be too specific. The three existing Mii Fighter types kinda cover all of the available bases.

Not to say I don't think we will get a new one, just not sure what it would be.

 

[DNeon]

Well that is an original idea.

I was kind of going to another specialized character. What about Mii Thief? Uses traps and controlling. He uses double daggers in ice pick grip. One of his down specials could be set a trap like Snake's Down Smash (or is it down standard?). It could do a different effect like ground them, shock them. Another attack could be like a deku nut that does a flash that stuns them.

Firstly, it appears that Snake has lost his mine in ultimate unfortunately.

Secondly that's also what I'm promoting with 'Mii Mage'. I don't see how 'thief' is an archetype that is at all present in Smash while 'mage' supposedly isn't. Currently the 'gunners' I listed that are unrepresented in the Mii fighters are those trap/setup ones () and we've already settled that gunners and mages are essentially just different animations.

I think you missed the point of what I meant by 'omnidirectional' and also missed what's I said after it about them have 'lasting stage presence'. The point of omnidirectional projectiles is to set up those frame traps (see if she worked).

 

[Gallowglass]

Firstly, it appears that Snake has lost his mine in ultimate unfortunately.

Secondly that's also what I'm promoting with 'Mii Mage'. I don't see how 'thief' is an archetype that is at all present in Smash while 'mage' supposedly isn't. Currently the 'gunners' I listed that are unrepresented in the Mii fighters are those trap/setup ones () and we've already settled that gunners and mages are essentially just different animations.

I think you missed the point of what I meant by 'omnidirectional' and also missed what's I said after it about them have 'lasting stage presence'. The point of omnidirectional projectiles is to set up those frame traps (see if she worked).

I'm not trying to say the Mage idea isn't viable. Its just not as unique from the gunner. I just think the thief can offer a lot more unique moves and play styles. The biggest issue I see with Mii thief over Mii mage is the inspiration of characters you can make.

With mages you can make someone like Gandalf, Wizzrobes, Harry Potter characters, Dr. Strange, Psycho Mantis, etc.
Thieves I can think of FE characters like Sothe and Felica, Black Widow, Impa somewhat.

So that is something we need to keep in mind when thinking of a new Mii class or features is WHO can we make and not just how they perform.

 

[DNeon]

I'm not trying to say the Mage idea isn't viable. Its just not as unique from the gunner. I just think the thief can offer a lot more unique moves and play styles.[...]So that is something we need to keep in mind when thinking of a new Mii class or features is WHO can we make and not just how they perform.

I'm pointing out that your idea for the thief moveset was very much the same as my Mage moveset outside of using double daggers (which is basically just brawler using two fists with a little bit more range). And that second point is exactly why I think a Mii mage is important. Not only is there room for the gameplay niche to be filled (trap/setup/status effect fighter) but there's a whole lot of diversity to be brought to the Mii Costumes through existing characters that currently don't fit.

 

[Vickand]

I think a Thief could be more like a trickster or technical with traps, a counter with great speed but not too strong and would be a close range fighter while the Mage would be a long distance fighter with elemmental attacks and maybe transformation or stats altering skills (like the monado) and they would be the opposite to the Thief being slow (at least their attacks) but powerful.

 

[Gallowglass]

See that's not what mages usually are. Usually mages are long range damage dealers and AOE attacks. That's why they're usually called "Mana Cannons". As for traps and status effects that's usually a thief's specialty. These roles are further supported by Miitopia.

Miitopia Jobs

But on he lines of mages what will their close combat be? Are they going to have a staff, wand, rod, or just hand gestures? Because a staff and rods just makes them into a swordsman (ie Ashley and Viridi costumes), wands is pretty much a small dagger.

Either way I think Miitopia is going to greatly influence the Mii's in some way with either costumes, movesets, or classes.

 

[DNeon]

But on he lines of mages what will their close combat be? Are they going to have a staff, wand, rod, or just hand gestures? Because a staff and rods just makes them into a swordsman (ie Ashley and Viridi costumes), wands is pretty much a small dagger.

Every Mage so far in Smash hits just barely past their hands using magical sparkles or has a sword because their character uses a sword in game . The only exception is Palutena with her staff. It'd be easy and more consistent across spell casting characters to do the same 'sparkles' method, so someone who uses books, a wand, a scroll, just their hands or a staff still have the same hit boxes.

And once again, AFAIK all of the characters I listed (aside from Rosaluma who has her own gimmick) play as those frame trap/setup characters with either hit stun/actual stun effects or tricky projectile use. The other main ones are Sci-Fi or just DHD.

I think a Thief could be more like a trickster or technical with traps, a counter with great speed but not too strong and would be a close range fighter while the Mage would be a long distance fighter with elemmental attacks and maybe transformation or stats altering skills (like the monado) and they would be the opposite to the Thief being slow (at least their attacks) but powerful.

See that's not what mages usually are. Usually mages are long range damage dealers and AOE attacks. That's why they're usually called "Mana Cannons". As for traps and status effects that's usually a thief's specialty. These roles are further supported by Miitopia.

I think you're focussing way too much on this as a representation of classic RPG roles. Mii Fighters are approximations of Smash characters, not references to RPGs.

 

[Vickand]

Every Mage so far in Smash hits just barely past their hands using magical sparkles or has a sword because their character uses a sword in game . The only exception is Palutena with her staff. It'd be easy and more consistent across spell casting characters to do the same 'sparkles' method, so someone who uses books, a wand, a scroll, just their hands or a staff still have the same hit boxes.

And once again, AFAIK all of the characters I listed (aside from Rosaluma who has her own gimmick) play as those frame trap/setup characters with either hit stun/actual stun effects or tricky projectile use. The other main ones are Sci-Fi or just DHD.




I think you're focussing way too much on this as a representation of classic RPG roles. Mii Fighters are approximations of Smash characters, not references to RPGs.

More like trying to justify why it would make sense to add more type of Mii fighters. beacuase being honest the 3 we have pretty much cover everything but I really want more Miis.

 

[Gallowglass]

Every Mage so far in Smash hits just barely past their hands using magical sparkles or has a sword because their character uses a sword in game . The only exception is Palutena with her staff. It'd be easy and more consistent across spell casting characters to do the same 'sparkles' method, so someone who uses books, a wand, a scroll, just their hands or a staff still have the same hit boxes.

And once again, AFAIK all of the characters I listed (aside from Rosaluma who has her own gimmick) play as those frame trap/setup characters with either hit stun/actual stun effects or tricky projectile use. The other main ones are Sci-Fi or just DHD.




I think you're focussing way too much on this as a representation of classic RPG roles. Mii Fighters are approximations of Smash characters, not references to RPGs.

The purpose of Miis (or at least the reason I like them so much) is that it gives you the freedom to make characters that are not in the game. This can be you and your friends, other video game characters, movie and book character, celebs, and so forth. So I guess the real queston is,

Who do you want to make for Smash and what changes would make it better to make those characters.

Captain N: If they could give gunner an NES Zapper
Mike Tyson / Dragon Chan: Boxer Outfit for Brawler
Nintendo Wars Character: Military Outfits

This is just some examples. I have more examples but I don't have my notes at the moment.

For ideas check out MiiCharacters for characters and QR codes.
http://www.miicharacters.com/

 

[DNeon]

More like trying to justify why it would make sense to add more type of Mii fighters. beacuase being honest the 3 we have pretty much cover everything but I really want more Miis.

That's fair though I disagree that the ones we have cover everything. Like we've both said the trap/setup fighter is missing, and I kind and personally wish they'd separate brawler into two so that there can be independent options for creating 'heavy' brawler/grappler and a fast rush down comboer. As they were in Sm4sh the 'heavy' options were pretty underwhelming.

That said I'm pretty sure this talk is a bit useless after having recently rewatched the direct. Sakurai explicitly says 'there will be 3 of them' and an extra Mii Fighter would be a lot of work for DLC unless there's basically an entire 2 decently large costume packs dedicated to adding it.

 

[Vickand]

That's fair though I disagree that the ones we have cover everything. Like we've both said the trap/setup fighter is missing, and I kind and personally wish they'd separate brawler into two so that there can be independent options for creating 'heavy' brawler/grappler and a fast rush down comboer. As they were in Sm4sh the 'heavy' options were pretty underwhelming.

That said I'm pretty sure this talk is a bit useless after having recently rewatched the direct. Sakurai explicitly says 'there will be 3 of them' and an extra Mii Fighter would be a lot of work for DLC unless there's basically an entire 2 decently large costume packs dedicated to adding it.

Maybe the customization can add the possibility of creating different types of brawlers, gunners and sowordfighters. Even if it´s only in local modes.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Well what I want to know is if you can make your own custom miis just like in smash 4
(As any famous person/fictional character)

 

[Mc.Rad]

If I want to be real here... I do want the future Mii Fighters/ C.A.F. To have fully custom movesets. Kinda like how you can do that in WWE2K games. To be honest, I really want the Talents from Talent Studio to replace the Mii Fighters because I just think that the Mii Fighters are too restrictive as they are rn. I was kinda hoping for a total rehaul for them like how some characters are now in this game, but it's a shame they weren't able to be fleshed out as I had hoped they would be so far....

 

[osby]

If I want to be real here... I do want the future Mii Fighters/ C.A.F. To have fully custom movesets. Kinda like how you can do that in WWE2K games. To be honest, I really want the Talents from Talent Studio to replace the Mii Fighters because I just think that the Mii Fighters are too restrictive as they are rn. I was kinda hoping for a total rehaul for them like how some characters are now in this game, but it's a shame they weren't able to be fleshed out as I had hoped they would be so far....

Miis actually have a fair amount of freedom with their customization compared to other games they were in.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Miis actually have a fair amount of freedom with their customization compared to other games they were in.

I meant in terms of the moveset. I kinda feel like this is kind of shallow, especially for Nintendo. Most of the moves the fighters use are just other character's specials. Also, you had only like... 3 different options to choose from for each B move. Also, you could only change the hat and the overall costume for the Mii Fighter. It is better than the other games that they are in, but it's honestly a disappointing Create a Fighter. I only hope that there's some huge changes that they've keep secret to wow us with later...

 

[osby]

I meant in terms of the moveset. I kinda feel like this is kind of shallow, especially for Nintendo. Most of the moves the fighters use are just other character's specials. Also, you had only like... 3 different options to choose from for each B move. Also, you could only change the hat and the overall costume for the Mii Fighter. It is better than the other games that they are in, but it's honestly a disappointing Create a Fighter. I only hope that there's some huge changes that they've keep secret to wow us with later...

There probably won't be huge changes because even if they use a lot of moves, they were still almost three times three fighters in terms of specials. Even all customs returning would take a big toll on developers.

 

[Oddball]

I seem to recall there was some horse**** about how the top esports pro players of super-proness would have to learn a million more matchups for each height/width variation of the Miis, which made no sense since the variations had trivial differences up until the size settings hit very specific thresholds. It was more like having to learn two variations for each Mii, because nobody in their right mind was going to run a heavy Mii. And we offered to make it just one variation, 50-50 default size.

Oh Boo-hoo. If those people can't learn to adapt quickly to new fighting styles then they aren't as good as they claim they are. A little bit of unexpected randomness would do the tournaments some good. It woudl seperate the people that actualy know how to play well from the people that have just memorized a lot of stuff.