CP's & bans per MU: Falco

[krazyzyko]

1. Usually on 2/3 sets the winner of the previous match bans a stage. So l'll try and list the two stages you'd like to go for each matchup (and the ban). These are always open for discussion.
   
   Legal single stages:
   -Battlefield (BF)
   -Dreamland 64 (DL)
   -Final Destination (FD)
   -Fountain of Dreams (FoD)
   -Pokemon Stadium (PS)
   -Yoshi's Story (YS)
   
   Character:
   Counterpicks- 1st stage, 2nd stage
   Ban- Worst stage on this matchup
   
   
   Falco ditto:
   Notice which stages he/she banned for the first match to see what your opponent dislikes.
   
   Fox:
   CP- BF, YS
   Ban- FoD
   
   Sheik:
   CP- FD, PS
   Ban- BF
   
   Puff:
   CP- YS, FD
   Ban- DL
   
   Marth:
   CP- DL, PS
   Ban- FD
   
   Peach:
   CP- PS, YS
   Ban- FD
   
   Falcon:
   CP- FD, FoD
   Ban- DL
   
   Samus:
   CP- FD, PS
   Ban- FoD
   
   Ganon:
   CP- PS, FD
   Ban- FoD
   
   IC's:
   CP- PS, YS
   Ban- FD
   
   Doc & Mario:
   CP- PS, YS
   Ban- FD
   
   Pikachu:
   CP- PS, YS
   Ban- FD
   
   Luigi:
   CP- PS, YS
   Ban- FD
   
   Young Link:
   CP- PS, YS
   Ban- DL
   
   Link:
   CP- PS, YS
   Ban- DL
   
   DK:
   CP- PS, YS
   Ban- FD
   
   Yoshi:
   CP- FD, PS
   Ban- FoD
   
   Zelda:
   CP- PS, YS
   Ban- FoD
   
   Roy:
   CP- PS, DL
   Ban- FD
   
   Mewtwo:
   CP- PS, YS
   Ban- FD
   
   Mr. G&W:
   CP- PS, YS
   Ban- FD
   
   Ness:
   CP- PS, YS
   Ban- FoD
   
   Bowser:
   CP- PS, YS
   Ban- FoD
   
   Pichu:
   CP- YS, PS
   Ban- FoD
   
   Kirby:
   CP- PS, YS
   Ban- FoD

 

[duckypotato]

why do you have YS as a good CP for the Fox MU? I dunno if its a great stage for Falco, fox can move in on falco to easily and falco gets less space to control. Although I do feel like combos on Fox are really good on yoshis because the platforms facilitate quick movement, Fox can choke the space and move in when you jump to laser easier.

 

[krazyzyko]

why do you have YS as a good CP for the Fox MU? I dunno if its a great stage for Falco, fox can move in on falco to easily and falco gets less space to control. Although I do feel like combos on Fox are really good on yoshis because the platforms facilitate quick movement, Fox can choke the space and move in when you jump to laser easier.

Fox doesn't have much space to move around and Falco's recovery gets a boost with randall and the low walls.
These aren't set on stone though. As l said in the OP these are always open for debate.

 

[duckypotato]

Fox doesn't have much space to move around and Falco's recovery gets a boost with randall and the low walls.
These aren't set on stone though. As l said in the OP these are always open for debate.

I was just curious what your reason were.

I like the idea that the lack of space works for Falco, but I think it also works against him.
I think the fox MU is weird tho, and some of it comes down to play style. I like to take Fox to DL and FD because more space gives me room to retreat and advance. But fox gets the room to run around on DL, and FD he has an amazing punish game. I can the the benefit of Yoshis but I get rushed down a lot. Maybe I should try a more aggresive style on YS.

The rest of this list is tight tho, I think its pretty solid. Maybe if we came up with some reasons why certain stages are good/bad? I think it would be a handy guide

 

[C-SAF]

Yeah, i think YS is pretty bad for falco vs fox now. Mang0/wes rarely counterpick it anymore and have commented that falco needs room to laser b/c he cant just overwhem fox anymore.

The biggest difference i find between foxes that i can and cant take to yoshi's is how well they can shine oos. B/c i cant laser as much, it means falco has to use a lot more aerials and normals to fight fox straight up. Its very hard to make every aerial safe when there isnt much room to manuever, and a single shine sends u straight to the corner or off the stage. Fox also gets a small boost from upward kills, and even though the wall buffs falco recovery too, fox's revovery is pretty frustrating when he can tech all the way down.

Falco combos are still brutal on YS so it can be a really strong cp against the right player, but i dont think its a true cp to the character. BF/DL or possible PS seem like the strongest picks imo. I agree with pretty much everything else, its a good list

 

[duckypotato]

Yeah, i think YS is pretty bad for falco vs fox now. Mang0/wes rarely counterpick it anymore and have commented that falco needs room to laser b/c he cant just overwhem fox anymore.

The biggest difference i find between foxes that i can and cant take to yoshi's is how well they can shine oos. B/c i cant laser as much, it means falco has to use a lot more aerials and normals to fight fox straight up. Its very hard to make every aerial safe when there isnt much room to manuever, and a single shine sends u straight to the corner or off the stage. Fox also gets a small boost from upward kills, and even though the wall buffs falco recovery too, fox's revovery is pretty frustrating when he can tech all the way down.

Falco combos are still brutal on YS so it can be a really strong cp against the right player, but i dont think its a true cp to the character. BF/DL or possible PS seem like the strongest picks imo. I agree with pretty much everything else, its a good list

Yea PS and BF....

I have in internal conflict on DL v Fox because one part of my really wants to use the space and have more room to laser but fox also has a lot of room on that stage too. Id say its probably even overall but depending who im playing I may or may not counterpick there.

 

[C-SAF]

Yea PS and BF....

I have in internal conflict on DL v Fox because one part of my really wants to use the space and have more room to laser but fox also has a lot of room on that stage too. Id say its probably even overall but depending who im playing I may or may not counterpick there.

DL isnt my first choice either, for your exact reason i prefer BF and PS.

DL could be the best stage though honestly. If fox is running away on DL vs falco, its not like Peach and puff where he can laser camp and be rewarded for running away. Falco can keep fox from lasering with his own lasers, and can be equally frustrating to get near. The high cieling keeps falco from dying off the top even longer and since the stage is so big its hard to gimp falco. Its a battle of attrition where fox has to make the first move, it just isnt as fun and fast paced when both players try to play like that.