countering juggling with Lucario

[Dark Paladin X]

While Lucario seems to be a good juggler thanks to his up-tilt, he seems to be easily juggled due to his slow falling speed. Lucario doesn't have a Stall-Then-Fall function, but he does have a counterattack. I was wondering what is the best option when it comes getting out of juggle (particularly a high CPU level Marth). Should I use down aerial, use Lucario's Double Team, use ExtremeSpeed and aim for the ground, or go for the ledge?

 

[xmisosoupx]

actually, isnt it quite the opposite? fastfallers are usually the ones that are easily juggled? because im easily able juggle wolf (which is one of the fastest fallers in the game) up to 30% with up-tilt before he even has a chance to escape.

Also, why cpu? why not human players? going against cpu's can generate a lot of bad habits and you wont be able to develop mind-games because cpu's dont have a mind.

The best way technique against a human would be to air stall with d-air to mind game them to let u fall, but you are playing a cpu, so most likely the best way in this situation would just to DI away from the cpu and airdodge onto the ground as he is doing his up-tilt/smash or aerial.

Also, what are you referring to when you are talking about the Stall-Then-Fall function?

 

[phi1ny3]

While Lucario seems to be a good juggler thanks to his up-tilt, he seems to be easily juggled due to his slow falling speed. Lucario doesn't have a Stall-Then-Fall function, but he does have a counterattack. I was wondering what is the best option when it comes getting out of juggle (particularly a high CPU level Marth). Should I use down aerial, use Lucario's Double Team, use ExtremeSpeed and aim for the ground, or go for the ledge?

1:9/10 dair is better than DT against juggling
2:Don't trust CPUs, especially anything over lvl 3 (though you can use 5 to practice against camping at times)
3: Dair stall once, then hit again with dair (unless they shield). Then dair stall to air dodge (if they try again) then fair (if you land in front of them) or shield whatever approach happens (besides DDD grab or Bowser Side B).

 

[manhunter098]

I just tend to d-air whenever I think is right depending on my positioning, it works like 8 out of 10 times, depending on the character more or less. I also like to double jump and do a reverse aura sphere to get some nice sideways momentum, and being able to air dodge out of the aura sphere charge is nice and I can often escape like that, especially with a projectile to guard me from an easy aerial approach.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

You have a god tier dair for a reason. Use it!

 

[XavantTheEnigma]

when playing other people.
stand in front of the tv and dont let them see!

 

[Drizzt6195]

when playing other people.
stand in front of the tv and dont let them see!

Sigged

 

[Timbers]

Lucario doesn't have a Stall-Then-Fall function

...?

dair.

 

[phi1ny3]

I think he means something like TL's dair, where it falls fast afterwards.

 

[Mattsy]

I thought he meant something like Mario's cape, and was about to say dair does that :O

Anyway-

NEVER USE DOUBLE TEAM FOR ANYTHING.

Pretty much all I wanted to say.

 

[Conclusively]

Airdodge. This is Brawl. Or Dair. No hitstun. Lolbrawlphysics.

 

[Kitamerby]

Stall-Then-Falls are generally bad in Brawl. I think Sonic's and the Falcon/Wizard Kicks are really the only somewhat-good ones.

Just Dair them, or fastfall an airdodge if they have a move that beats out Dair.

 

[Greenpoe]

NEVER USE DOUBLE TEAM FOR ANYTHING.

DT is occasionally useful. The most "reliable" use is for recovery, when they launch a projectile. Push the direction of the control stick in the place you want to appear (and you'll end up in the opposite direction).

 

[Timbers]

DT offstage? Enjoy getting trapped under the stage.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Stall-Then-Falls are generally bad in Brawl. I think Sonic's and the Falcon/Wizard Kicks are really the only somewhat-good ones.

Just Dair them, or fastfall an airdodge if they have a move that beats out Dair.

Gay Man Watch's key...

 

[Downshift]

Being floaty and my only local Brawl competition being Marth, Shiek and Diddy mains, my Lucario is always at risk of being juggled. I'm patient on the ground, focusing on grabs and punishes, but when I get in the air and can't out prioritize the fast character's fairs or uairs unless I used ES or dair. Seemed to work like 50/50, less so against Shiek.

But now on Smash 4, dair is almost useless since it's been heavily nerfed and Shiek and Diddy's uairs have been buffed to near-stupid levels. ES's landing lag now make it useless for escaping also unless I can actually hit them with it, and unless they're already at a high percent, they're still gonna recover and punish while I'm lagging from the landing anyway.

Does anyone have any frame data or dair to see if the tiny hitbox is now lingering or if it has any priority over other aerials?
I really need a more reliable way to escape...

 

[Konrad-QD]

Being floaty and my only local Brawl competition being Marth, Shiek and Diddy mains, my Lucario is always at risk of being juggled. I'm patient on the ground, focusing on grabs and punishes, but when I get in the air and can't out prioritize the fast character's fairs or uairs unless I used ES or dair. Seemed to work like 50/50, less so against Shiek.

But now on Smash 4, dair is almost useless since it's been heavily nerfed and Shiek and Diddy's uairs have been buffed to near-stupid levels. ES's landing lag now make it useless for escaping also unless I can actually hit them with it, and unless they're already at a high percent, they're still gonna recover and punish while I'm lagging from the landing anyway.

Does anyone have any frame data or dair to see if the tiny hitbox is now lingering or if it has any priority over other aerials?
I really need a more reliable way to escape...

B reverse! Lucario is also less floaty so you can get down faster. Also nair is better for landing than dair.