Counter hit states? (VERDICT: NOPE)

[King9999]

I'm trying to figure out what causes the dramatic effect that occurs when you hit someone with a big attack. Currently, my belief is that a counter hit state exists in Smash 5, and this is what causes the dramatic effects. Here are some examples of dramatic hits:

https://youtu.be/OkMoPpo3uVQ?t=107

https://youtu.be/7ruLnvz6Y_Y?t=110

https://youtu.be/_xPWioLEpAQ?t=441



What defines a counter hit, as far as I can see, is when you get hit during the startup frames of an attack or during the recovery from a dodge. Then you have situations like Snake's where if you hit him during his Up B, it counts as a counter hit. It's still possible to die from a big hit and not have the dramatic effects, and there are many examples where this is the case. I'm only interested in what causes the effect.

I can't say if my assumptions are correct, but this is what I'm going with for now. I don't think the effects are random, so there must be a way to have them occur all the time. So to summarize, this is what causes the dramatic effect:

• The attack has to have big knockback (smashes, specials)
• The opponent has to be at a high enough % to potentially die from a hit
• The opponent needs to be hit while in a vulnerable, non-neutral state (similar to "finest KOs" in Capcom vs. SNK)

What do you think? Has someone figured this out before me, or am I on to something?

EDIT: One more vid, from the official Smash site: https://youtu.be/ayUTQsO6d1E?t=14

Note that Samus is still in recovery when she gets hit.

EDIT 2: Some people have said that the dramatic effect occurs when the opponent is on last stock and gets killed. That appears to be the case for 2 of the vids I posted, but not for the Mac vs. Zelda match since that one wasn't a stock battle.

EDIT 3: Check this vid: https://youtu.be/q4cEIdmBrdc?t=108

Ridley's tail stab results in a dramatic hit if you land the sweetspot. Note that the victim wasn't on last stock, but he took a ton of damage and was already at fairly high % before he got stabbed. From what I can tell, the victim was in a neutral state, but the tail stab seems to force a counter hit state.

EDIT 4: It looks like I was wrong about the game having counter hit states. It only seems to happen in last stock scenarios and with certain moves.

 

[Silvia]

I believe you are onto something. I have noticed that too when I look back on my videos.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I think it's two things:

1. Some moves ALWAYS have this effect, and they're the specifically really strong specials like Rest, Limit specials, Full Waft and yes, Mac's KO Punch and Ridley's stab. The direct mentioned this with Cap's Falcon Punch.
2. It also happens for every move that kills on their last stock.

I'd love for the game to have counterhits, but I really doubt it.

 

[King9999]

I think it's two things:

1. Some moves ALWAYS have this effect, and they're the specifically really strong specials like Rest, Limit specials, Full Waft and yes, Mac's KO Punch and Ridley's stab. The direct mentioned this with Cap's Falcon Punch.
2. It also happens for every move that kills on their last stock.

I'd love for the game to have counterhits, but I really doubt it.

1. You're probably right about this.
2. This appears to be true too.

It seems my claim is false.

 

[meleebrawler]

Isn't the whole ''take more knockback if hit while charging a smash'' thing basically a counterhit?