Counter-Arguments for Lucario's Inclusion in Brawl

[Black/Light]

. . .So you assume that the 4th gen will have a character in Brawl and from there you try to say that Lucario would be the only "good" choice because you can't think of any other pokemon the actually repersents something new to DP like Pichu was to GS?

Odd logic. . .

 

[majoras.]

Lol, with the inclusion of ICE CLIMBERS, pichu is likely to comeback too, and thats not good for lucario ^.^

 

[pineappleupsetshark]

Lol, with the inclusion of ICE CLIMBERS, pichu is likely to comeback too, and thats not good for lucario

I don't see any logic in that. Pichu was a hastily added clone made to fill an empty character spot. The Ice Climbers were and now continue to be the epitomy of awesome.
Pichu still has no chance.

So you assume that the 4th gen will have a character in Brawl and from there you try to say that Lucario would be the only "good" choice because you can't think of any other pokemon the actually repersents something new to DP like Pichu was to GS?

I said Pachirisu would be a good choice, so you're clearly not reading my post closely.

 

[chlor0form]

Ugh. Enough with the latest generations in Pokemon. They're all crap. Only the first 150 have relevance. Just tweak up the graphics to Wii standards and you're good. I think my stand is pretty clear. No Lucario for Brawl? (Whotf is he/she/it? / who cares?)

 

[kaid]

If you don't play pokemon anymore, you have Pikachu, Mewtwo, or even Trainer to play with. People who actually FOLLOW Pokemon will get a 4th gen rep, I predict.

 

[chlor0form]

It doesn't matter if you're following Pokemon or not to be able to differentiate good from bad. Don't get me wrong, I've played Pokemon on my DS for the sake of playing pokemon, an addicting rpg. So yea, I'm happy with PT and I guess what I'm trying to say is I wouldn't be happy if a 4th gen/etc. pokemon were to replace falco's spot, or even doc's for that matter.

a.k.a. They should be last priority for character selection spots. Free space at the end, go nuts! =d

Edit: Lol Darkurai, the guy got wrecked in that argument.

 

[Kirby knight]

Ugh. Enough with the latest generations in Pokemon. They're all crap. Only the first 150 have relevance. Just tweak up the graphics to Wii standards and you're good. I think my stand is pretty clear. No Lucario for Brawl? (Whotf is he/she/it? / who cares?)

Oh yes the latest generations are crap. That's why after RBY the other generations didn't sell right? All the pokemon of every generation have relevance. Just because your a RBY purist doesn't mean that others(majority) of people can't like and enjoy the other generations. Don't be surprised if you see a 4th generation rep because the 4th gen is one of the best selling generations of pokemon of all time.

I mean if your going to have an opinion like "Oh I don't like the series anymore so they shouldn't be represented " it's really pathetic and groundless.

It doesn't matter if you're following Pokemon or not to be able to differentiate good from bad. Don't get me wrong, I've played Pokemon on my DS for the sake of playing pokemon, an addicting rpg. So yea, I'm happy with PT and I guess what I'm trying to say is I wouldn't be happy if a 4th gen/etc. pokemon were to replace falco's spot, or even doc's for that matter.

a.k.a. They should be last priority for character selection spots. Free space at the end, go nuts! =dquote]

Yes the DP generation is so bad for what they've added to the series, online battling, trading, new pokemon that people that can enjoy. If DP wasn't good why the hell would it be selling this well?

Also no matter what character get's added wether it's from Pokemon, Mario, Starfox w/e they all take up space. And Lol at your Dr. Mario comment

-Knight

 

[Black/Light]

I said Pachirisu would be a good choice, so you're clearly not reading my post closely.

Oh, sorry. . . forgot the Pach. (Once I saw "Lop porn "I just assumed your post was immature crap. . . BUT you actually see something else as likely which is a step above most Lucario fans here.)

Either way, I think that Red is the prefect example that Sakurai doesn't care so much about gen and cares more about repping the series just like with any other (choosing the most well known and popular characters form the game series).

When I look at Pichu I see that it was well known. . . not actually wanted for melee from what i saw of the melee polls but well known none the less. It was also a baby pokemon with was a completely new thing to the GS games dou to the new breeding asspect of the game. Thats what I personally call a "rep" of a gen, something that "reps" something unique and new to that gen such as baby pokemon (Pichu) or 2-on-2 battles (P&M).

Thats one reason I don't support Lucario. Theres nothing about him that stands out in this gen. He isn't one of the "first of it's kind" like Darkrai (first dark legendary), Manaphy (first breedable legendary and has it's own sub breed of pokemon. . . it's like the KING of it's sub breed) or even pokemon like Gallade (split gender evols where pretty big this time around) or Electavire (one of the pokemon that can only be fond if you have one of the old game in the ds and get it's baby form with some special item).

Thats PART of how I feel. IMO without that one movie 2 years ago Lucario wouldn't be nearly as popular amoung smash fans. And I still don't think Sakurai feels he just has to rep the newest of w/e series with characters. Red would be the DP guy with the DP starters if he was hung up on repping the newest gen at all cost. Sure. . . the series has grown with more than 400 pokemon in it . . .does that mean that the most famed and well known pokemon should get looked over? Isn't this what we have Pokeballs for. . . to put in popular pokemon from different gens?

Peace. . .

 

[Kirby knight]

Either way, I think that Red is the prefect example that Sakurai doesn't care so much about gen and cares more about repping the series just like with any other (choosing the most well known and popular characters form the game series).

I think Red was a very unique character addition however I don't see it as the perfect example as you do. The only pokemon with a substanital popularity in the Pokemon Trainers aresenal is Charizard. Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't nearly on the same level of popularity. The main reason for using them is to keep in the theme of the RBY generation and showing each stage of evolution; not popularity.

Thats one reason I don't support Lucario. Theres nothing about him that stands out in this gen. He isn't one of the "first of it's kind" like Darkrai (first dark legendary), Manaphy (first breedable legendary and has it's own sub breed of pokemon. . . it's like the KING of it's sub breed) or even pokemon like Gallade (split gender evols where pretty big this time around) or Electavire (one of the pokemon that can only be fond if you have one of the old game in the ds and get it's baby form with some special item).

Nothing about him stands out this gen? How isn't Lucario one of the "first of it's kind" when he's the very first steel/fighting type pokemon? He's the only pokemon in the D/P gen with that type combo. In my mind that stands out alot.

Thats PART of how I feel. IMO without that one movie 2 years ago Lucario wouldn't be nearly as popular amoung smash fans. And I still don't think Sakurai feels he just has to rep the newest of w/e series with characters. Red would be the DP guy with the DP starters if he was hung up on repping the newest gen at all cost. Sure. . . the series has grown with more than 400 pokemon in it . . .does that mean that the most famed and well known pokemon should get looked over? Isn't this what we have Pokeballs for. . . to put in popular pokemon from different gens?

Obviously Lucario wouldn't be nearly as popular if Nintendo hadn't centered a movie around him; you really could say that for any pokemon for that matter. Would Pikachu be as popular as it is today if it wasn't for the fact that he's Ash's central pokemon in the anime? Would Jigglypuff have the same popularity if it wasn't for that fact that she starred in the anime? Would Mewtwo still have the same popularity if he didn't have that showdown with Mew in Pokemon the first movie?

Being showcased in the anime/movies has increased the popularity of Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo. I don't see how you can see Lucario's movie as a negative for him because he's had the same hype as the other pokemon had.

-Knight

 

[Black/Light]

I think Red was a very unique character addition however I don't see it as the perfect example as you do. The only pokemon with a substanital popularity in the Pokemon Trainers aresenal is Charizard. Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't nearly on the same level of popularity. The main reason for using them is to keep in the theme of the RBY generation and showing each stage of evolution; not popularity.

They clearly added those 3 starters because they are from his gen and because they are 3 of the most well known pokemon (maybe not Ivy but heck, Char is the most popular fin stage/ squirt is the most popular first stage so where does that leave Bulbas line?).

Nothing about him stands out this gen? How isn't Lucario one of the "first of it's kind" when he's the very first steel/fighting type pokemon? He's the only pokemon in the D/P gen with that type combo. In my mind that stands out alot.

1. Split typing has been out sence GS.
2. Toxicroak's line is the first Fighting/ Poison type in the game- Heatran is the first Fire/ Steel type of it's game- Blaze was so hot that they ripped her as the only other Fire/Fighting type line in the games for the DP monkey starter- Rotum is the first thunder/ghost- Froslass is the first Ice/ ghost.etc

Something as simple as a type splitting in a game full of type splits aint something I call "a first of".

Obviously Lucario wouldn't be nearly as popular if Nintendo hadn't centered a movie around him; you really could say that for any pokemon for that matter. Would Pikachu be as popular as it is today if it wasn't for the fact that he's Ash's central pokemon in the anime? Would Jigglypuff have the same popularity if it wasn't for that fact that she starred in the anime? Would Mewtwo still have the same popularity if he didn't have that showdown with Mew in Pokemon the first movie?

Funny, the reason they got into the anime was because when Pokemon came out it had no mascot so they choose the most popular ones amoung the Japanese to put into the show. And Mewtwos movie was the biggest anime theater movie to ever hit the US so of corse that may have pushed some things. He is still actually the only true villian in the games either way.

Being showcased in the anime/movies has increased the popularity of Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo. I don't see how you can see Lucario's movie as a negative for him because he's had the same hype as the other pokemon had.

I never called it a "negetive", I just said that he wouldn't be this popular amoung this group of smash fans if it wasn't for that movie.

And how is he getting "the same hype as the others"? He was in a co-starring role in a movie with Mew 2 years ago. . . thats it. If you REALLY want to look at the anime for pokemon you would surrely have to agree that Meowth's apperance in EVERY movie and amost EVERY show of the anime well almost having his own game makes for more reason than Lucario's role in one movie 2 years ago. . .

 

[Chepe]

D/P are good games and are selling ridiculously well, so none of that "newer gens are fail compare to first gen" crap thats being passed off as fact...

I still think that having no playable 4th gen rep would be a bad move. Itd be like Sakurai himself saying that the first Pokemon games are the only ones worth anything. Im still sure that with Drifloon, Munchlax, and the Pokemon series icon being the same emblem used in Diamond/Pearl's touch screen when a battle starts that the 4th gen will get a playable Pokemon. And Lucario is the only Pokemon really worth that role...

 

[Homelessvagrant]

but here's what I don't see, why does a 4th gen poke deserve a role in pokemon. Lucario is a random new poke that has appeared in but Two games. Think of other games like Mario or Zelda. Why should Midna or Bowser Jr. be in brawl. They are the newest characters in those franchises but what have they done for the franchise in whole. What importance does Lucario have to making the franchise. This is a epic battle of the top fighters in all of Nintendo's history.

Lucario would be cool in brawl I won't argue that. However with four pokemon already I can't justify a fifth. And to rid us of Mewtwo or Jiggly is a definite no.

 

[SiD]

Agreed, we don't want Brawl to be a cluster**** of pokemon. 4(6) is enough.

 

[Kirby knight]

They clearly added those 3 starters because they are from his gen and because they are 3 of the most well known pokemon (maybe not Ivy but heck, Char is the most popular fin stage/ squirt is the most popular first stage so where does that leave Bulbas line?).

I disagree the evidence is staggering in favor of Sakurai wanting to represent each stage of evolution. Squirtle is a 1st stage pokemon. Ivysaur is a 2nd Stage pokemon. Charizard is a 3rd stage pokemon. I mean in what you just said you just contradicted yourself; by saying that Ivysaur isn't that well known. I mean if Sakurai was going to represent the most popular of the starters don't you think he would of added Bulbasaur over Ivysaur because Bulbasaur is more popular/well known? The reason why he added Ivysaur over the more popular Bulbasaur was so that he could represent the 2nd stage of evolution.

1. Split typing has been out sence GS.
2. Toxicroak's line is the first Fighting/ Poison type in the game- Heatran is the first Fire/ Steel type of it's game- Blaze was so hot that they ripped her as the only other Fire/Fighting type line in the games for the DP monkey starter- Rotum is the first thunder/ghost- Froslass is the first Ice/ ghost.etc

Something as simple as a type splitting in a game full of type splits aint something I call "a first of".

Umbreon was the very first Dark pokemon so what so unique about Darkrai? Just because he's a legendary? It may be simple be you cannnot deny that a split typing isn't the first of something.

Funny, the reason they got into the anime was because when Pokemon came out it had no mascot so they choose the most popular ones amoung the Japanese to put into the show. And Mewtwos movie was the biggest anime theater movie to ever hit the US so of corse that may have pushed some things. He is still actually the only true villian in the games either way.

I'm aware that pokemon had no mascot when it first came out and that they choose Pikachu because he was the most popular pokemon at that time. However by adding Pikachu into the anime he became "more" popular as well as with Jigglypuff.

Mewtwo's movie pushed alot of things in his favor. How is he the only "true" villian? I mean have you even seen the ending of the first movie? Or Mewtwo Returns? He didn't seem as much as a villian as he was misguided and full of angst for what he was created for and in the end he changed his views.

I mean what kind of "true" villian becomes good at the end of the movie, let alone starring as a good pokemon in Mewtwo Returns?

And how is he getting "the same hype as the others"? He was in a co-starring role in a movie with Mew 2 years ago. . . thats it. If you REALLY want to look at the anime for pokemon you would surrely have to agree that Meowth's apperance in EVERY movie and amost EVERY show of the anime well almost having his own game makes for more reason than Lucario's role in one movie 2 years ago. . .

Have you seen Lucario and the Mystery of Mew? Lucario is the main character in that movie and Mew was more of a backdrop character. So I wouldn't call him a co-star because that's not what he was.

I would agree with your statement about Meowth if he was the central part of the anime and the movies that he started in. He wasn't ;surely even you have to know that. I mean I wouldn't even count a game that was CANCELED.

but here's what I don't see, why does a 4th gen poke deserve a role in pokemon. Lucario is a random new poke that has appeared in but Two games. Think of other games like Mario or Zelda. Why should Midna or Bowser Jr. be in brawl. They are the newest characters in those franchises but what have they done for the franchise in whole. What importance does Lucario have to making the franchise. This is a epic battle of the top fighters in all of Nintendo's history.

Lucario would be cool in brawl I won't argue that. However with four pokemon already I can't justify a fifth. And to rid us of Mewtwo or Jiggly is a definite no.

Oh wow you sound so much like sandman. Lucario isn't as random as other pokemon because Ninteno itself has brought Lucario to the attention ot the general public, with a movie and lucario pokemon merchandise.

Tell me why 2ND BIGGEST FRANCHISE IN THE WORLD (RIGHT BEHIND MARIO doesn't deserve to have 4+ characters.

Please don't bring up this "importance to the franchise ****" because honestly the only characters that really need to be in SSBB are Mario, Pikachu, Kirby and Link; but instead of just having those characters ( I ****ing dare you to mention a single character that more important than those that I have listed), Sakurai and other members of the Nintendo staff decided to branch of and represent other characters as well.

-Knight

 

[SiD]

Well assuming Doc doesn't return, how many Mario reps are there, 4? Why should there be more pokemon than the BIGGEST franchise in the world?

 

[Kirby knight]

Well assuming Doc doesn't return, how many Mario reps are there, 4? Why should there be more pokemon than the BIGGEST franchise in the world?

Your case is well made. However who is to say that Mario will not be getting more characters added to his franchise? Who is to say that Mewtwo, Jigglypuff and lol Pichu won't be returning/and or repleace?

We won't know tell the final result of the game or Sakurai reveals otherwise on the site.

I agree that Mario should have the most represention in the game. Can you disagree with what I have stated?

-Knight

 

[SiD]

No I can't disagree, so let me speak theoretically.

Say all non clones return. This leaves us with 4 Mario characters, and four pokemon (Technically 6 pokemon, meaning already more rep for the franchise, but still only 4 slots.) Therefore, they can add maybe Bowser JR or Geno or something, and Mario will still only be one ahead of pokemon. As I think this is a likely scenario, I don't think Lucario or any pokemon for that matter should be added into the game.

 

[Black/Light]

I disagree the evidence is staggering in favor of Sakurai wanting to represent each stage of evolution. Squirtle is a 1st stage pokemon. Ivysaur is a 2nd Stage pokemon. Charizard is a 3rd stage pokemon. I mean in what you just said you just contradicted yourself; by saying that Ivysaur isn't that well known. I mean if Sakurai was going to represent the most popular of the starters don't you think he would of added Bulbasaur over Ivysaur because Bulbasaur is more popular/well known? The reason why he added Ivysaur over the more popular Bulbasaur was so that he could represent the 2nd stage of evolution.

I didn't contradict myself. Ivy is apart of the Bulba line and looks alot like Bulba well Squirt was the most popular first stage and Char the most popular last stage. Sure, they are at different stages. . . never said that that wasn't part of the reason, never said that that was the only reason. It would be much easyer to make clear cut differences in stats if they all are at different stages (All fin stages=everyones strong and slow for example).

But really, the 3 RGY starters are 3 of the most well known pokemon. They are at different stages but still the 3 of the most well known pokemon.

Umbreon was the very first Dark pokemon so what so unique about Darkrai? Just because he's a legendary? It may be simple be you cannnot deny that a split typing isn't the first of something.

Umm, no he wasn't. The dark type came in GS and he was just one of the few Dark types of GS like Sneasil/ Tyranitar/ Murkrow etc. And yea, being the first every Dark typed event only pokemon of the games makes him stand out.
Lucario is just a random split typed pokemon. . . I don't see that as something that "stands out". I mean, I could say Froless "stands out" because it's the first and only ice/ ghost typed pokemon of the 4th gen. . . so Froless 4 brawl.

I'm aware that pokemon had no mascot when it first came out and that they choose Pikachu because he was the most popular pokemon at that time. However by adding Pikachu into the anime he became "more" popular as well as with Jigglypuff.

Never said that that didn't ADD to their popularity. But even without the anime Pika is on anything pokemon which also made it popular.

Mewtwo's movie pushed alot of things in his favor. How is he the only "true" villian? I mean have you even seen the ending of the first movie? Or Mewtwo Returns? He didn't seem as much as a villian as he was misguided and full of angst for what he was created for and in the end he changed his views.

I'v seen the movie. . . I was talking about the games in which Mew2 blow up a mantion and killed 100s of innocant people that worked there and made him. Theres no other pokemon that has done anything like that and no matter what the out come was in the movie (or his other anime movie thing) he was still the villian.

I mean what kind of "true" villian becomes good at the end of the movie, let alone starring as a good pokemon in Mewtwo Returns?

1. Games. . .
2. It was still a d**m villian in anime land. . .

Have you seen Lucario and the Mystery of Mew? Lucario is the main character in that movie and Mew was more of a backdrop character. So I wouldn't call him a co-star because that's not what he was.

Have you seen the 9th movie? Who was the star. . .Manaphy or that pokemon ranger who played the exact same role as Lucario did in his movie? That whole movie was about Mew and the tree of Orgin well Lucario was used as a sub plot. Thats why they are BOTH together in this contast amoung movie pokemon to appear on the 10th movie's ticket.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ENC-280j9Uw

I would agree with your statement about Meowth if he was the central part of the anime and the movies that he started in. He wasn't ;surely even you have to know that. I mean I wouldn't even count a game that was CANCELED.

Was Puff ever anything but a comic relief in the tome it was in the anime? Meowth is in Team Rocket which are the "bad guys" on the show. Mostly every one of the shows climax with Team Rocket doing something bad before "blasting off again". Meowth is also the ONLY other pokemon to be in the anime from start to now along side Pika. How is having one anime appearance as a starring role in one movie from 2 years ago better than that?

Oh, and the Meowth's party game demo was used to show case the GameCube. Yea, it got canned. . . but name any other pokemon that got that close to ever having a game that they star in other than Pika and Pokemon yellow?

And plus, I don't see any "Lucario party" games/ demos in the works. . .

Oh wow you sound so much like sandman. Lucario isn't as random as other pokemon because Ninteno itself has brought Lucario to the attention ot the general public, with a movie and lucario pokemon merchandise.

So what, it had a co-starring role in a movie with Mew and got alil merch because of that? It's not a icon, now-a-days it doesn't even get more exposure than other popular 4th gen pokemon.

 

[Bowser King]

people move on the anti-lucario thread is gone and sandman is moving on and all of you people should to.What is the point of discussing something thats been talked about in another 4 threads.

My verdict:Lucario for pokeball and thats my opinion live with it.

 

[MysticKenji]

...
Why did you bump this thread?

 

[shinhed-echi]

Jigglypuff might've returned for several reasons:

1.- Still popular anime-wise (the weakest reason)

2.- Not planning on removing anyone from the original roster.

3.- Jigglypuff became a popular SSB character, they couldn't give him the boot. (And he has become even MORE popular now, SSB wise).

Something tells me he could be back.

I don't care about Lucario.. but I just can't picture a generic pokemon on his own.. Pikachu is understandable (Pokemon icon?) Jigglypuff could be back due to SSB popularity. But Lucario...?

I'm not Anti, I just don't see it happening.

 

[Bowser King]

mystic i just wanted to get my opinion across i think theres already enough threads on this.

 

[E-Z-MONEY]

. . .So you assume that the 4th gen will have a character in Brawl and from there you try to say that Lucario would be the only "good" choice because you can't think of any other pokemon the actually repersents something new to DP like Pichu was to GS?

Odd logic. . .

Thinking about it Lucario does rep somethign new. The physical/special split. He is the poster boy of the new split of physical and special attacks. His main attack is the first special fighting attack and he is a fighting type with better special attack who learns many special fighting type moves.

 

[SiD]

people move on the anti-lucario thread is gone and sandman is moving on and all of you people should to.What is the point of discussing something thats been talked about in another 4 threads.

My verdict:Lucario for pokeball and thats my opinion live with it.

mystic i just wanted to get my opinion across i think theres already enough threads on this.

Are you ****ing ******** or something? This thread has been dea for months, if you think there's enough already, stop ****ing reviving old threads. ****ing moron.