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Controller Port Guide

1HKO

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You stalker, you make me sick!
:)1HKO's Controller Port Guide:)
OK, how should I put this...
remember that match that you almost one, if you put your controller in a different port it could have made the difference between almost winning and winning.

Random Events Decided by Controller Port
Sakurai has had to (figuratively) leap through hoops to keep us content with this game and he knew that certain things would have to be decided randomly such as who gets grabbed when two players grab at the same time, or who will win after a suicide throw. Those examples work like this:
In both cases the P1 slot is most valued.
1)If you are grabbing at the same time the player with the lower player slot (P1) will grab the other player.
2)If you are Bowser and you klaw suicide, lower player slot (P1) and you win, higher player slot (P4) and you sudden death.
"If you're in Sudden Death, Klawiciding again will cause a 2nd Sudden Death. Klawiciding during that one will win Bowser the match regardless of controller port.
"If you're in Sudden Death, Klawiciding again will cause a 2nd Sudden Death. Klawiciding during that one will win Bowser the match regardless of controller port."-Yuna

Jewdo Section
Thank you so much Jewdo for all of this incredible info BTW.
"I tested the various suicides for controller port advantages. Results are as follows:

Kirby/DeDeDe - no controller port advantage. Both players always die simultaneously. If this is done in Sudden Death, the Inhale's victim is counted as the loser.
Wario/DK - no controller port advantage. Wario/DK always dies first.
Bowser - If Bowser is P1 and victim is P2, Bowser wins. If Bowser is P2 and victim is P1, Sudden Death.
Ganondorf - If Ganon is P1 and victim is P2, Sudden Death. If Ganon is P2 and victim is P1, Ganon loses."(This little bit about Gannon has later been taken back and thus is not true)

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyari View Post
This is still pretty ridiculous, but I was thinking about the 2v2 port imbalance and I got to thinking: wouldn't the best way to solve it be to force one team to be P1+P4 and the other team be P2+P3? This splits up the advantages uniquely and, IMO, more evenly than having both teams touch or having alternating ports.
I drew out a list of team match-ups and the advantages given to either side. It's actually... kinda tough to say decisively which match-up has the best balance. It comes down to how exploitable each advantage is relative to the others and which set of advantages best balances the exploits between two teams. I'll leave that up to each community member to decide.

Grab Priority advantage - if two players grab simultaneously, lower # wins.

Transform advantage - if two players transform at the same time, lower # transforms first.

Suicide advantage - one player remains from each team with one stock. If the player with the lower# port suicides his opponent as Bowser, his team wins (or, in Ganon's case, does not lose).

FSA advantage - what the first post is about.

[=== P1+P2 vs. P3+P4 ===]

*Team 1*
absolute Grab Priority (both)
absolute Transform advantage (both)
absolute Suicide advantage (both)

*Team 2*
absolute FSA advantage (both)

[=== P1+P3 vs. P2+P4 ===]

*Team 1*
P1 has absolute Grab Priority, Transform, and Suicide advantage
P3 has FSA when grabbing P2, Grab Priority/Transform/Suicide over P4

*Team 2*
P4 has absolute FSA advantage
P2 has FSA when grabbing P1, Grab Priority/Transform/Suicide over P3

[=== P1+P4 vs. P2+P3 ===]

*Team 1*
P1 has absolute Grab Priority, Transform, and Suicide advantage
P4 has absolute FSA advantage

*Team 2*
P2 and P3 have FSA over P1, Grab/Transform/Suicide over P4"
-Jewdo

Other Events Decided by Controller Port
I have no honest explanation of what was going through Sakurai's head when he made these, so I will just explain what they are.
x)"event decided"(characters it applies to)
1)Faux Super Armor(Snake,Pit,Link,TL,Diddy) in singles, (ALL) in doubles
2)Transformation Animations(Sheik/Zelda,PT,Samus/Zamus)
Explanations
1)Faux Super Armor occurs when a player is grabbing another player and status effect of any kind (this includes explosives) hits both of them. If the player who is in a grab (grabbing or being grabbed has no difference) has a higher player slot (P4) then he will take the damage regularly but not be affected by knock back. Diddy is in the list because he can be hit once during his up-b by sonic then dash grabbed and the barrel won't hit him; pretty useless IMHO.
2)Transformations are those moves that allow you to "transform" between two or more characters and are only currently accessible by two character slots (Sheik/Zelda, PT). If two characters enter the animation at the same time, for a reason unknown to me the character with the lower player slot (P1) will transform first.

Summary
In essence it is better to have a lower player slot in a singles match unless:
a)you are playing a snake who likes to cook grenades in his shield.
b)you want to grab that pesky link or TL, whack em a couple of times, and not worry about their bomb.
c)you want to gimp snakes recovery while he is holding a grenade.
d)you play as pit and like doing loop d-loop arrows without anything interfering (not a very good reason if you ask me)

What Decides who gets what Player Slot
Many have asked what they could do to determine what player slot an individual could get and this section is where all the answers posed to the problem will go.
1)Rock/Paper/Scissors if two people want the same slot.
2)Lower skilled player gets whatever slot he wants.
3)Whoever gets there first
4)(my personal answer) do it like who picks the stage and make the loser of the first match have a choice between the options of a counterpick and the slot they want.

Stage Position
This is completely random now.
Credits
Jewdo
Sonic the Hedgedawg
tsl/Elec Man EXE
Yuna
Amazing Ampharos
HOPE THIS HELPED
 

Elec Man EXE

Smash Apprentice
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Interesting read. But I thought starting position was randomized now, not dependent on your port...
 

BEES

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Grabs didn't have to be decided by player order, they could've just clanged off each other. Different characters could've had different grab priority.

Player order never had to enter into anything. It's like tripping. It's just there to be disruptive.
 

tsl

Smash Apprentice
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Starting position is completely random now.

YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Samus doesn't transform at will. She either has to use a smash ball or do that taunting thing and the odds of two samus' using that move at the exact same time is exceedingly small.
it doesn't HAVE to be two samuses... it can be one samus and a zelda a sheik or a pokemon.
 

Yuna

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If you're in Sudden Death, Klawiciding again will cause a 2nd Sudden Death. Klawiciding during that one will win Bowser the match regardless of controller port.
 

Yuna

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That's... amazing! How did you find this out??
By testing it out myself, like, a week after the game was released. I was curious as to what would happen in Sudden Death if I Klawicided. Then I wanted to know if I could just keep on doing it indefinitely.
 

phanna

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Starting position is completely random now.
I was going to post this. Port has no impact on starting positions for Brawl.

Everything else is the same for Brawl as Melee port priority, except now there is also the Bowsercide, and dittos for characters with Super Armor.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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I have tested spawn positions extensively. I was mostly looking into sudden death stuff, but I also found out how they work in general.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166063

Not only are spawn positions completely random, but player numbers don't even affect which two points are used. Likewise, controller port no longer determines the results of Sudden Death in brawl (as it did in melee).

Also, the person in the other topic who suggested Snake's grenade dropping glitch is controller slot dependent is wrong. Snake forces his opponent to drop a grenade by dropping a second grenade independent of controller slot. I have confirmed it works when Snake/Captain Falcon are player 1 or 2 in either order.

I still have to say that being player 4 is a substantial advantage against Snake because you can safely grab him out of his shield. I would always pick player 4 given the option unless I intended to use Bowser; you usually have to pick your slot before you know your opponent's character, Snake is very common, and the advantage against him for being player 4 outweighs the general case of simultaneous grab attempts (which is quite rare). I wonder if tournaments have a method to resolve controversy if both players can't agree over who gets a specific controller slot.
 

JCaesar

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I wonder if tournaments have a method to resolve controversy if both players can't agree over who gets a specific controller slot.
Rock/paper/scissors. At least that's how they did it back in my day, but it wasn't as big of a deal in Melee. Really just for preferred start positions, but that's not an issue anymore.



Does all this apply to Wariocide and Kirby/DDDcide as well? Or do they always have a set outcome?
Edit: Nevermind, this is answered in the other FSA thread (http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=168613). You should throw that info up here too.
 

hippochinfat!!

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My friend is Psycho Mantis so whenever I play him he basically forces me to switch the controller port and then he puts his controller into port 1 then Suicides me with Bowser's side B.

I hate this controller port crap.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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1)Faux Super Armor occurs when a player is grabbing another player and status effect of any kind (this includes explosives) hits them. If the player who is in a grab (grabbing or being grabbed has no difference) has a higher player slot (P4) then he will take the damage regularly but not be affected by knock back.

This is why I think being player 4 helps against Snake a lot; he always has grenades at his feet which makes grabbing him out of his shield more dangerous than it should be.
 

1HKO

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You stalker, you make me sick!
1)Faux Super Armor occurs when a player is grabbing another player and status effect of any kind (this includes explosives) hits them. If the player who is in a grab (grabbing or being grabbed has no difference) has a higher player slot (P4) then he will take the damage regularly but not be affected by knock back.

This is why I think being player 4 helps against Snake a lot; he always has grenades at his feet which makes grabbing him out of his shield more dangerous than it should be.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if he has a grenade at his feet just:
a)take it (more risky)
b)attack him from the other side (less risky)
The advantage is when he's holding his grenade in hand.
If you can grab him then you probably can also throw his grenade at him and that makes up for being P1. Just my opinion and this won't go in the guide (I have to be PC or else I wouldn't be telling you the truth).
 

Jewdo

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Just a quick correction: FSA applies to any attack (including explosives) that would hit both players during a grab. If a hit of any kind would clearly hit just one player, that player experiences the normal effects of the attack (damage, knockback, status changes) regardless of their controller port.

Also, the information regarding suicides and teams has changed. My apologies for not getting it right the first time. Details here.

Nice job on the thread, by the way. Good to see all this stuff in one place.
 

PK-ow!

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Grabs didn't have to be decided by player order, they could've just clanged off each other. Different characters could've had different grab priority.

Player order never had to enter into anything. It's like tripping. It's just there to be disruptive.
No no, the real PAIN of this, is that this is EXACTLY what randomness would be good for.

Randomly prioritizing one player is better than giving P1 an advantage. Something like that can break a game. Because how do you resolve port choice? It's a choice that gives an advantage for knowledge, yes, but... unlike character select, you can't just both choose P1.

Rock paper scissors? Really, giving a specific advantage to one player by chance before you begin? I take it you don't throw again for the whole set?

*nods disapprovingly*
 

JCaesar

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Rock paper scissors? Really, giving a specific advantage to one player by chance before you begin? I take it you don't throw again for the whole set?

*nods disapprovingly*
Like I said, it didn't make such a huge difference in melee. Blame Sakurai for this bull****.

Besides, you got a better idea? It is what it is, and we have to deal with it. Assigning controller port randomly at the beginning of the match is better than some arbitrary reason like who got there first. We don't want everyone racing to their next match.

Though maybe controller port advantage should go to the lower seeded player or something like that, but that starts to get too complicated and controversial.
 

Sliq

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Holy ****, a useful thread...in RAWL Tactical Discussion! Holy shift!
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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No no, the real PAIN of this, is that this is EXACTLY what randomness would be good for.

Randomly prioritizing one player is better than giving P1 an advantage. Something like that can break a game. Because how do you resolve port choice? It's a choice that gives an advantage for knowledge, yes, but... unlike character select, you can't just both choose P1.

Rock paper scissors? Really, giving a specific advantage to one player by chance before you begin? I take it you don't throw again for the whole set?

*nods disapprovingly*
if you're lucky, both people will want different ports
 

MuBa

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What the hell was Sakurai on when making this game anyway?

Seriously what is he trying to accomplish here, a more balanced game by giving more priority on specific controller ports? If you ask me this has got to be dumber than tripping.
 

Morrigan

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I don't even think he thought about it or even cared. It's a party game for him. The people playing this game (to him) do not notice these things.
 

1HKO

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You stalker, you make me sick!
he thought tripping would be raucously funny... <_<
I bet he thought zelda was a party game also....
I mean you do have mario party, but after that any other games he wants to be a "party game" are good until they truly are party games.
I thought of this section off the top of my head.
"Happy Corner
OK after much mumblings and grumblings we have concluded that Sakurai wasn't thinking when he made stuff like tripping and making the controller port a part of gameplay.
HOWEVER
He still can't take back his "un-party" game of Melee. If what he says is correct about wanting the game to be less of a contest and more of a fun battle, then this must be his dirty little secret he's covering up. Sakurai wasn't made for party games. Yeah that's right! That one probably hit home to Sakurai when he noticed the blatant truth, this is why he made Brawl which is his last hope of ever being a good party game designer."
No, that isn't going in my guide unless it is proved true. (which won't happen in a million years if Sakurai is as much of a hyppocrit as he is right now)
 

1HKO

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You stalker, you make me sick!
that's hilarious that this still exists in brawl.

Too bad position advantage doesnt come from ports anymore :|
Too bad?! All of the things listed in my guide were meant to be warnings for the unfortunate souls they affect. Now you want one more thing for them to worry about? Please tell me your logic here.
 
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