Congratulations, Min Min! ARMS character(s) for Smash discussion

[fogbadge]

Last Night i had a really strange dream, there was a super smash bros ultimate direct that showed 3 characters for the fighters pass.
The Arms fighter was basically a Hero base fighter with almost all the arms characters as alternate costumes but in the form of chibi characters strangely. Springtron is Spring Man's Assist Trophy replacement too.

The Second character i can't remember, Luigi was in the trailer however my memory has been frizzled out, i assume some anime design gaming character was the newcomer in the trailer.

The Third one was pretty strange yet mind blown. there was a showcase of indie game characters and a light minovering which one is the newcomer then stops at the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

What a Crazy Weird Dream....

i once had one where a thwomp was a bonus fighter and a bulborb was fp5, so id say its all part of being a smash fan

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

My dreams are so boring that the one Smash-related one I had didn't have an actual reveal at all.

To be honest, I was originally going to write "ARMS character comes into a boxing ring to fight the other fighting game characters," then I remembered that they did that exact same set-up already... There are plenty of other ways they could do it (maybe bring other characters into the ARMS world this time with an ARMS-style tournament between Smash characters leading to the final fight against Champion [INSERT-ARMS-CHARACTER-HERE] with Biff doing commentary?). I mostly just don't want a trailer that actively shows various ARMS characters not getting into Smash, as while that'd be good for suspense, I feel like it'd make a lot of people sad...

On the flipside, I hope the trailer isn't so short that it's anticlimactic for the sake of getting the reveal out of the way.

Whatever that damned sixth trailer will be like, it better blow our socks off. As Sak said once, the moment a character's element of surprise is shown, it's no longer there anymore.

 

[chocolatejr9]

My dreams are so boring that the one Smash-related one I had didn't have an actual reveal at all.

At least you've HAD a Smash-related dream. I don't think I've ever had one...

 

[Guybrush20X6]

My Smash Dream had E. Gadd as a Pokemon trainer clone. No, he didn't send out ghosts to fight, he used Pokemon. Not even Ghost types.

 

[nirvanafan]

A bit late but i was pleasantly surprised to see Arms get in. Honestly was not expecting it after the game stopped getting updates and we got a 1st party fighter from after the release of Arms but who knows, maybe some sort of new update or game is on the way soon. If not though, I think this may help the chances of Rex and other reps from games that came out around the same time.

Maybe it was to keep discussion alive but i still find it weird they did not specify the fighter which has me thinking this may be a Hero/Bowser Jr type situation. This leaves Twintelle in an interesting position, she seems popular enough to be one of the alts but her hair gimmick might make her more difficult to mesh with the other alts.

Will be interesting to see what they do with the assist trophy if Spring Man is one of the alts (which i think he will be). Maybe change it to Spring Tron or give it some sort of color scheme or highlight to seperate it from fighter Spring Man, or block it from appearing when fighter Spring Man is being used.

 

[Deleted member]

Not going to lie, I'm pretty conflicted on the idea of multiple characters being alt. palettes in this case. It worked for Alph, the Koopalings, and the Heroes, but I kind of feel like characters in a fighting game, even the ones who are similar to others, still have differences that are substantial enough to where it doesn't really show what one character can do while making them a palette of another. The exact reason I oppose the idea of Ken being an alt. of Ryu. Echo was absolutely the way to go for Ken.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Why feel so attacked about the idea of alts if the staff probably won't do it anyway? So far, this DLC hasn't had a consistent track record of it:

: Pipe, but it's an outlier in many areas anyway.
: School.
: 3, could have had more if 1) they didn't run out of time and 2) some of the heroes didn't have traits that prevented them from being picked.
: Bupkis.
: Bupkis.
: Woman.

On average, they just get one alt at most, so if they really do treat this guessing game as a contest with only one winner, we'll get one fighter and that's it.

 

[Deleted member]

Why feel so attacked about the idea of alts if the staff probably won't do it anyway

Who said anything about feeling attacked by it?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Who said anything about feeling attacked by it?

I'm just saying, sometimes I get the impression that it's assumed by some folks here that are worried that the staff really will use alts for the ARMS fighter, when we don't know if they really did it or not. They most likely didn't, if history taught us anything.

It's one thing to be worried about what happens to Schrodinger's Cat, and then there's assuming the cat hasn't been treated with the "correct" method.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm just saying, sometimes I get the impression that it's assumed by some folks here that are worried that the staff really will use alts for the ARMS fighter, when we don't know if they really did it or not. They most likely didn't, if history taught us anything.

I'm not worried about them doing it. Truth be told if they do it and it works then more power to them. I just don't think they will.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm not worried about them doing it. Truth be told if they do it and it works then more power to them. I just don't think they will.

That's fair enough, so we should move on to a different topic.

So, do you think that Biff would narrate the whole trailer?

 

[Perkilator]

That's fair enough, so we should move on to a different topic.

So, do you think that Biff would narrate the whole trailer?

Maybe. But I’m gonna get this off my chest; I can’t stand talked-over trailers unless it’s in sizable moments (i.e. Doc Louis in Mac’s trailer).

 

[GolisoPower]

That's fair enough, so we should move on to a different topic.

So, do you think that Biff would narrate the whole trailer?

Now that I think about it, Biff would be a good way to start the trailer and announce the new fighter, but just for the start of it.

Biff shows up and says, "Greetings! I'm Biff, your trusty ARMS commentator, here to give you some exciting news! As you know, the ARMS League has been chosen for representation in the newest Smash Bros. tournament! And now, after running the brackets and playing out the battles, we've concluded that the fighter to represent the ARMS League will be..."

And then the trailer reveals who the ARMS fighter will be.

 

[MattX20]

Now that I think about it, Biff would be a good way to start the trailer and announce the new fighter, but just for the start of it.

Biff shows up and says, "Greetings! I'm Biff, your trusty ARMS commentator, here to give you some exciting news! As you know, the ARMS League has been chosen for representation in the newest Smash Bros. tournament! And now, after running the brackets and playing out the battles, we've concluded that the fighter to represent the ARMS League will be..."

And then the trailer reveals who the ARMS fighter will be.

That definitely works and avoids potential trailer redundancy.

 

[Mamboo07]

Pretty funny how the only people who talk about fanrules are those obsessed with seeing them get "destroyed". It's really pathetic, actually.
And then will come the flood of topics of "Ha Ha! It was destroyed! Waluigi is totally in now!"

Pathetic are those people exhaustively repeating these pathetic fan "rules" every single time they see someone saying his/her most wanted is a Spirit, AT or a Mii Costume, no offence.

 

[fogbadge]

Pretty funny how the only people who talk about fanrules are those obsessed with seeing them get "destroyed". It's really pathetic, actually.
And then will come the flood of topics of "Ha Ha! It was destroyed! Waluigi is totally in now!"

Pathetic are those people exhaustively repeating these pathetic fan "rules" every single time they see someone saying his/her most wanted is a Spirit, AT or a Mii Costume, no offence.

wow

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Pretty funny how the only people who talk about fanrules are those obsessed with seeing them get "destroyed". It's really pathetic, actually.
And then will come the flood of topics of "Ha Ha! It was destroyed! Waluigi is totally in now!"

Pathetic are those people exhaustively repeating these pathetic fan "rules" every single time they see someone saying his/her most wanted is a Spirit, AT or a Mii Costume, no offence.

You can't call people pathetic and then take it back with "no offence". It's an inherently offensive statement.

 

[Trevenant]

Pretty funny how the only people who talk about fanrules are those obsessed with seeing them get "destroyed". It's really pathetic, actually.
And then will come the flood of topics of "Ha Ha! It was destroyed! Waluigi is totally in now!"

Pathetic are those people exhaustively repeating these pathetic fan "rules" every single time they see someone saying his/her most wanted is a Spirit, AT or a Mii Costume, no offence.

I don't get it what's the point in this? You first say people are pathetic for wanting can rules destroyed then you say people are pathetic for passing off said rules? Not only the but you come out of the blue with a fairly insulting post, contradict yourself and don't even provide any form of context as to what it's doing here aside from the obligatory springman promotion which is a stretch in and of itself

 

[Mamboo07]

I don't get it what's the point in this? You first say people are pathetic for wanting can rules destroyed then you say people are pathetic for passing off said rules? Not only the but you come out of the blue with a fairly insulting post, contradict yourself and don't even provide any form of context as to what it's doing here aside from the obligatory springman promotion which is a stretch in and of itself

Okay okay, one. I do not call people pathetic, two I was just venting out, and... there's not much.

Just wanted to apologize for the insult.

 

[SwitchButton]

Pretty funny how the only people who talk about fanrules are those obsessed with seeing them get "destroyed". It's really pathetic, actually.
And then will come the flood of topics of "Ha Ha! It was destroyed! Waluigi is totally in now!"

Pathetic are those people exhaustively repeating these pathetic fan "rules" every single time they see someone saying his/her most wanted is a Spirit, AT or a Mii Costume, no offence.

People are to obsessed with the word "rules" and junk like that.

Lets be real here guys, if Spring Man is added to Smash, his "promotion" will be a one-time special situation because they had no idea that they were going to be able to add Spring Man later as DLC.

But we KNOW everyone is going to come out of it screaming "THE GLASS CEILING IS BROKEN ISAAC CONFIRMED WALUIGI CONFIRMED SHADOW CONFIRMED" without looking at the actual context.

People think any exception to the norm means that the floodgates are open then they get butthurt when that isnt the case.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Spoiler

Um, okay, looks like it's a good thing I went to bed early enough.

That being said, I'm still 98% the staff will stick to their habits, leave the Spring Man AT alone and pick someone else. I still find it weird that they'd do the guessing game at all if they were to pick him anyway.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

People are to obsessed with the word "rules" and junk like that.

Lets be real here guys, if Spring Man is added to Smash, his "promotion" will be a one-time special situation because they had no idea that they were going to be able to add Spring Man later as DLC.

But we KNOW everyone is going to come out of it screaming "THE GLASS CEILING IS BROKEN ISAAC CONFIRMED WALUIGI CONFIRMED SHADOW CONFIRMED" without looking at the actual context.

People think any exception to the norm means that the floodgates are open then they get butthurt when that isnt the case.

This, a hundred times.

Even if you consider the idea that Assist Trophies have been promoted in a future game before (Mac, Isabelle, Dark Samus), the chances of that happening have been fairly low in general.

There have been 48 Assist Trophies across Brawl and Smash 4 (yes, I counted). Only three have been promoted to playable, and one of those three is only because of the Echo Fighter gimmick Ultimate had.

To say that Spring Man becoming playable would "open the floodgates for every Assist Trophy ever" is ridiculous because Assist Trophies rarely get that chance to begin with.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

This, a hundred times.

Even if you consider the idea that Assist Trophies have been promoted in a future game before (Mac, Isabelle, Dark Samus), the chances of that happening have been fairly low in general.

There have been 48 Assist Trophies across Brawl and Smash 4 (yes, I counted). Only three have been promoted to playable, and one of those is only because of the Echo Fighter gimmick Ultimate had.

To say that Spring Man becoming playable would "open the floodgates for every Assist Trophy ever" is ridiculous because Assist Trophies rarely get that chance to begin with.

If anything, ARMS regaining prominence would ensure that Spring Man gets promoted in Smash 6, thus maintaining the status quo in this area, in the event that he gets passed over this time.

Spirits are more of a grey area, since it's obvious that things are fast and loose with how they handle those.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If anything, ARMS regaining prominence would ensure that Spring Man gets promoted in Smash 6, thus maintaining the status quo in this area, in the event that he gets passed over this time.

Spirits are more of a grey area, since it's obvious that things are fast and loose with how they handle those.

Assist Trophies tend to be more of a consolation prize over the fact that they couldn't be considered as part of Smash's playable roster either because

• The character doesn't have enough potential for a moveset
• The character is too obscure
• The character's franchise has been dormant for far too long and the token retro character was already picked
• The character debuted too late
• The timing isn't in the character's favor because another character from that franchise is introduced

It's really no coincidence that the ATs that were promoted are the ones we got.

Punch-Out was pretty much dormant until the Wii game, that's why we got Mac in Smash 4 rather than Brawl.

Isabelle didn't get a chance to shine as a playable character in Smash 4 because New Leaf wasn't even released by the time Smash 4 started being developed and Villager was already a planned newcomer. The Assist Trophy was a consolation prize.

Let's not even kid ourselves. If Echo Fighters wasn't a marketing point for Ultimate, we never would've gotten to see Dark Samus be promoted for Ultimate.

ARMS is in the same kind of situation as Isabelle once was; a game that game out too late to be considered for the base game and given a non-playable role as consolation. They just happen to have a chance to fix that because of the second Fighters Pass.

They don't just promote any Assist Trophy for no reason whatsoever. So not every Assist will have a chance even if the ARMS rep is Spring Man.

In fact, I'd even argue that ARMS is the only possible case for Ultimate due to the game's timing.

 

[Trevenant]

Spoiler

View attachment 268732

Um, okay, looks like it's a good thing I went to bed early enough.

That being said, I'm still 98% the staff will stick to their habits, leave the Spring Man AT alone and pick someone else. I still find it weird that they'd do the guessing game at all if they were to pick him anyway.

I'm 99.99% sure that we are probably getting springman. It would be pretty foolish if they decided not to add him just because he is an assist especially since he is undeniably the most marketable character (imagine them saying "lol nope soz we aren't adding him he's already represented this argument only holds any real significance within the fan base but we'll try to comply as we must listen anyway). Just for reference I hope people don't think I'm trying to downplay other ARMS characters, I just think that it's undeniable that if all 15 were hypothetically put on sale and they could only pick one, it'd be hard to deny that Springman would be leading the fray with Ribbon Girl either tying or a VERY close second. I don't think any assist promotions are happening aside from Springman but that's about it.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Still dunno why but I'm feeling they're gonna do a curveball and give us Helix as an total WTF as they did with

Just a feeling.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't think Nintendo absolutely needs to pick Spring Man or Ribbon Girl just because they're the "mascots".

If they want to give the new IP a second chance at life, they essentially have a chance to pick new mascots based on what the ARMS userbase already likes.

Whether they do it or not is another story, but the potential for it to happen is still there.

 

[Trevenant]

Still dunno why but I'm feeling they're gonna do a curveball and give us Helix as an total WTF as they did with

Just a feeling.

Weren't you first predicting some other character then springman with a ribbon girl echo and now Helix?

I don't think Nintendo to absolutely needs to pick Spring Man or Ribbon Girl just because they're the "mascots".

If they want to give the new IP a second chance at life, they essentially have a chance to pick new mascots based on what the ARMS userbase already likes.

Whether they do it or not is another story, but the potential for it to happen is still there.

Yeah I'm just a firm believer in mascot or protagonist first. Characters like Pikachu can even be placed in there for being the first Pokemon rep before Red as he is the mascot. That's just me though

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Weren't you first predicting some other character then springman with a ribbon girl echo and now Helix?

I did but my overtime my prediction tends to change when I think about it.

That or it could be one of the following three.

1. Minmin
2. Spring Man + Ribbon Girl as an echo
3. Helix

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Considering that the ultimate factor in a character getting chosen is if Sakurai and crew can get them to work, the only reason Spring Man would absolutely need to be passed over is if his AT winds up causing problems in the programming.

Having an AT not trigger in certain stages is one thing, but we've never had a character that essentially disables their AT just by becoming playable. It's like gently trying to remodel a Jenga tower.

Still dunno why but I'm feeling they're gonna do a curveball and give us Helix as an total WTF as they did with

Just a feeling.

If we're talking curveballs, maybe they could pick one of the DLC characters, that coincidentally have a somewhat similar physique to (close enough but not quite).

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Does anyone think they could even pull off an character that we never would have expected?

Ninjara or Kid Cobra comes to mind.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah I'm just a firm believer in mascot or protagonist first. Characters like Pikachu can even be placed in there for being the first Pokemon rep before Red as he is the mascot. That's just me though

But ARMS is a very new IP, so it's still possible for things to change.

Heck, I'm pretty sure Pikachu was never intended to be the mascot when Gen 1 released because it takes a while to even see one, he just ended up being popular which led to Ash getting one in the anime, and that's why Pikachu is the face of Pokemon and why he was the first Pokemon character in Smash.

ARMS could be having the exact same scenario.

Having an AT not trigger in certain stages is one thing, but we've never had a character that essentially disables their AT just by becoming playable. It's like gently trying to remodel a Jenga tower.

It's almost like the ones who thinks it's an easy thing they can do in 5 minutes don't even know the slightest bit of programming.

I mean, the very fact that ATs being disabled is on a stage to stage basis already means they essentially have to flip that switch off 116 times, one for each stage including the ones we'll get in Pass 2, training mode and custom stages as a whole.

So many errors and glitches can happen if it's done in any way that isn't objectively flawless because coding needs to be extremely precise to even function, which adds roadblocks that wouldn't be there if they picked anyone but Spring Man.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Does anyone think they could even pull off an character that we never would have expected?

Ninjara or Kid Cobra comes to mind.

We covered practically every option (even Headlok), it's only Misango, Kid Cobra and Master Mummy that don't have any clear voters on the poll.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

We covered practically every option (even Headlok), it's only Misango, Kid Cobra and Master Mummy that don't have any clear voters on the poll.

Hedlok isn't in the poll... but I guess "Other" is close enough

 

[Gamer Cube]

Byte and Barq anyone? I think it'd be really cool because barq wouldn't play like other AIs seeing as he only hits the player once or twice and works mainly as an entity that just gets in your way. That and you can jump on his head to go high.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean, the very fact that ATs being disabled is on a stage to stage basis

That's not the only condition that can disable ATs. They don't want the background to be overridden by multiple things, so for example if a Galaga is on the field you can't get a Shadow AT.

Also do you think Gray Fox's dialog changes require programming every single stage?

 

[fogbadge]

guys, stop trying to figure out whats going on in sakurais head, it wont do you any good

 

[Mushroomguy12]

My Smash Dream had E. Gadd as a Pokemon trainer clone. No, he didn't send out ghosts to fight, he used Pokemon. Not even Ghost types.

Hmm....

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

guys, stop trying to figure out whats going on in sakurais head, it wont do you any good

So what are we supposed to do then? We got around two months left before reveal, and are already in danger of recycling the same topics over and over again like the Ultimate general social thread (heck, even Pokémon's been brought up). At least we haven't degenerated into lewd topics.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Byte and Barq anyone? I think it'd be really cool because barq wouldn't play like other AIs seeing as he only hits the player once or twice and works mainly as an entity that just gets in your way. That and you can jump on his head to go high.

I don't think it's necessary because the stretchy ARMS gimmick is pretty unique in its own right.

That's not the only condition that can disable ATs. They don't want the background to be overridden by multiple things, so for example if a Galaga is on the field you can't get a Shadow AT.

True, but those aren't relevant to the current discussion, so they're not worth really pointing out for said discussion, imo.

Also do you think Gray Fox's dialog changes require programming every single stage?

That's a different thing.

Gray Fox's Snake-specific dialogue lines require only Snake be present and could very well be programmed differently than what they used to make some Assist Trophies not appear in some stages because he doesn't have any stage-specific lines nor does Snake's presence affect Grax Fox's odds of being summoned by the item.

Besides, making an Assist Trophy's apparance be on a stage by stage basis allows it to be more flexible for, well, DLC stages. It's more complicated to program, but becomes far easier to mess around with once it's completed for any future stage that could require an AT to be turned off.