Q&A Confused Ape - Simple Q&A Thread (Read OP for FAQ)

[CELTiiC]

Couldn't find one on the boards, and thought this would be helpful to have. Need help but can't find the thread, have a random question you need answered, wonder what something means? Just post a question here and we'll try to answer it for you.

Rules:
~ No Spamming
~ No Flaming
~ Please try leave posts that have to do with the topic, a question you have, or an answer to another persons question
~ Try not to ask questions which have already been asked

Please try to follow the rules. Hopefully, this will be successful, and most people will use this to their benefit. Also, it'll clean up the boards of some questions people ask pretty frequently.

FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions):

(Will be edited as questions are asked)

 

[Brickbox]

I'll start this off :D
does anyone know what characters regular up throw into u air is guaranteed on at 0%?
I know fox and falco are pretty much guaranteed but other than that I don't really know, this would be determined by fall speed correct? I know that most likely no one knows all the characters so just let me know what characters you do know.

 

[dbwithlemon]

Stupid question, and I'll test it myself when I'm not at work if no one knows.
Does the fire effect from Fire Slap(Down-B 3) block projectiles? I wouldn't expect it to stop something like a charge shot, but I'd think it could be used to clank weaker projectiles.

 

[Big O]

Stupid question, and I'll test it myself when I'm not at work if no one knows.
Does the fire effect from Fire Slap(Down-B 3) block projectiles? I wouldn't expect it to stop something like a charge shot, but I'd think it could be used to clank weaker projectiles.

Down B 3 can't block projectiles because it never clanks. The only projectiles it can stop are things like D3's Gordo, Luma, and pikmin that aren't red.

I moved your post to the Q&A thread. In the future, ask your simple questions in here.

@ Brickbox Uthrow doesn't combo into anything. With a ceiling to abuse or against like shield Shulk it might be able to.

 

[Brickbox]

Hmm, I thought it did :/ I guess its just a reliable set up on heavy characters but not a true combo . Good to know.

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Anyone here know when Cargo up throw to up air is a true combo and against who?
Also, anyone find an actual use for Cargo down throw? I've heard it leaves people closer to you than regular down throw but I can't really tell. I'm still mad that Cargo down throw doesn't actually throw then downwards when in the air despite the animation CLEARLY THROWING DOWNWARDS.

 

[CELTiiC]

Anyone here know when Cargo up throw to up air is a true combo and against who?
Also, anyone find an actual use for Cargo down throw? I've heard it leaves people closer to you than regular down throw but I can't really tell. I'm still mad that Cargo down throw doesn't actually throw then downwards when in the air despite the animation CLEARLY THROWING DOWNWARDS.

Sakurai changed that because he felt DK was too broken pre-release. Cargo U-throw to U-air is never a true combo to my knowledge, they can DI and airdodge to get away, but you can apply a lot of pressure at lower percents if you read their DI correctly. Only characters I can see that working on are fast fallers like Fox, Falco and DK himself but I've had a lot of success waiting out their air dodges. Also in some circumstances f-air has actually worked for me as well, but that is only as a mixup.

 

[Brickbox]

Anyone here know when Cargo up throw to up air is a true combo and against who?
Also, anyone find an actual use for Cargo down throw? I've heard it leaves people closer to you than regular down throw but I can't really tell. I'm still mad that Cargo down throw doesn't actually throw then downwards when in the air despite the animation CLEARLY THROWING DOWNWARDS.

cargo down throw has a little less power than down throw, so if you want to force someone into situation where they have to tech you can use down throw or cargo down throw so that the timing for them to tech is as small as possible.

(take in account rage for this info)
Mario starts tumbling at around 28% for dthrow and 32% for cargo dthrow. If they dont tech, or do any tech besides roll away tech you can punish with a down-b.

Simply put, if they are about 28-31 do dthrow, if they are at 32- still decently low do cargo d throw and then just use a 2 slap down-b every time. It works well until people catch on.
This is so far the only thing I have ever seen it used for.

Cargo U-throw to U-air is never a true combo to my knowledge, they can DI and airdodge to get away.

Stop telling people this, lets just tell everyone it is a guaranteed combo so don't bother trying to get out

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Is there any concrete data as to when DK gets super armor? Is it as soon as he launches a Giant Punch? UpB super armor is easier to get but it feels inconsistent.

 

[Brickbox]

Is there any concrete data as to when DK gets super armor? Is it as soon as he launches a Giant Punch? UpB super armor is easier to get but it feels inconsistent.

Yes sir there is, the frame data thread will have everything you need.
http://smashboards.com/threads/dk-frame-data-smash-4-edition.381083/

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Yes sir there is, the frame data thread will have everything you need.
http://smashboards.com/threads/dk-frame-data-smash-4-edition.381083/

Much obliged.

 

[CELTiiC]

Anybody else get random N-air inputs with their c-stick? Do you know what causes it? I've noticed this to be happening a lot lately when I either am doing retreating b-airs or b-airs in general sometimes. I'm finding it real frustrating because I'm getting punished for it.

 

[Brickbox]

Anybody else get random N-air inputs with their c-stick? Do you know what causes it? I've noticed this to be happening a lot lately when I either am doing retreating b-airs or b-airs in general sometimes. I'm finding it real frustrating because I'm getting punished for it.

Ugh it is frustrating that the game has problems like this :/

Here is a thread on this problem, there is no way to fix this problem completely.
http://smashboards.com/threads/update-aerial-c-stick-issues-workaround.378889/
We are pretty much left with the only option of complaining to Sakurai.

 

[Runic_SSB]

In what situations should I be using Down-B and Up-B (for non-recovery purposes)? Also, when should I be using dtilt over ftilt and vice-versa?

 

[CELTiiC]

In what situations should I be using Down-B and Up-B (for non-recovery purposes)? Also, when should I be using dtilt over ftilt and vice-versa?

Down b is a great move if your opponent misses a tech and you are running them down or going for the tech chase. I actually love down b and is a staple in my DK game, though many disapprove of the move. Though it is laggy, it is a very good move when used properly, as it covers a great portion (about the length of dk in front of him and behind) so even if you misread their tech you still have a good chance of hitting them with it anyway, popping them up and continuing to apply pressure. Also Up B isn't a bad out of shield option, and I use it a lot for a mix up in approaches if I know my opponent is going to roll backwards, going to jump up or also as another option against characters who miss their tech and are going to roll in a predictable direction. Up B isn't as useful as I thought it was early on though, as it seems easy to DI out of or escape and is very punishable. And for your d-tilt, I'd honestly use d-tilt so much more than f-tilt, at least I do. F-tilt is a great move, but d-tilt gives up a little less range for a faster attack that still covers a great amount. I like to use f-tilt as a mixup, also up aimed forward tilts are always great against characters like Marth, Lucina and Shulk as it swats them away and keeps your spacing in check. I'd use f-tilt over d-tilt too because f-tilt is a bit more laggy, but also keep in mind f-tilt clanks most projectiles which is a big bonus.

 

[RomanceDawn]

How exactly do I do a Canceled Roll into grab? At least I think that's what I saw being discussed else where.

 

[Big O]

How exactly do I do a Canceled Roll into grab? At least I think that's what I saw being discussed else where.

Roll canceled grabs can only happen during the initial frames of a dash. So when charging the punch, standing still, or after you have been running for a while you can't cancel rolls into grabs. Roll canceled grabs are pretty much useless for DK since 1.04, so there is no real reason to practice it.

If you want to see for yourself how useful it is, you do inputs in this order- left/right -> shield -> grab. If you do it correctly you will see a flash graphic from the roll very briefly.

 

[Appdude]

EVERY TIME I land a sideB, no matter what I do, I can't get that shield to break. I only SideB while coming down on an opponent hoping that they will shield, wait for me to land, then grab. What happens is that they will shield, I will sideB, their shield goes from 100% to 10%. My opponents even shield a bit after I almost destroy their shield. So I ask:

1. What is the best thing to do after a SideB from the air (taking their shield from 100% to 10%)?

2. What move would be the fastest and most powerful to use whilst their shield being in a horrible state to guarantee a shield break?

Basically, I'm asking: What is the most efficient way to get a shield break after a sideB? (If the sideB hasn't done it already)

Thanks DK Brethren

 

[Big O]

EVERY TIME I land a sideB, no matter what I do, I can't get that shield to break. I only SideB while coming down on an opponent hoping that they will shield, wait for me to land, then grab. What happens is that they will shield, I will sideB, their shield goes from 100% to 10%. My opponents even shield a bit after I almost destroy their shield. So I ask:

1. What is the best thing to do after a SideB from the air (taking their shield from 100% to 10%)?

2. What move would be the fastest and most powerful to use whilst their shield being in a horrible state to guarantee a shield break?

Basically, I'm asking: What is the most efficient way to get a shield break after a sideB? (If the sideB hasn't done it already)

Thanks DK Brethren

Anything but a jab will break their shield immediately after landing a Side B. If they punish you OoS, by the time you hit their shield it will be partially recovered though.

When they have a heavily damaged shield, Up B is really good at beating dodges and shield poking. Down B will also eat weak shields for breakfast. I get shield breaks with Dsmash and the punch sometimes.

 

[Brickbox]

EVERY TIME I land a sideB, no matter what I do, I can't get that shield to break. I only SideB while coming down on an opponent hoping that they will shield, wait for me to land, then grab. What happens is that they will shield, I will sideB, their shield goes from 100% to 10%. My opponents even shield a bit after I almost destroy their shield. So I ask:

1. What is the best thing to do after a SideB from the air (taking their shield from 100% to 10%)?

2. What move would be the fastest and most powerful to use whilst their shield being in a horrible state to guarantee a shield break?

Basically, I'm asking: What is the most efficient way to get a shield break after a sideB? (If the sideB hasn't done it already)

Thanks DK Brethren

If someone successfully shields your side-b it should always mean you are going to get punished and thier shield will recover a decent amount and they are going to want to run away, my advice is don't go for a break after but instead go for a poke or punish a roll with up-b or down-b , people realize that their shield is low and a lot of times what goes through their mind is "get away safely". This gives you the chance to punish a roll/desperate attempt to get away with up-b or side-b. If they continue to shield and not try to get away then just do the same thing, up-b and down-b will poke or break their shield.

overall just know people play different with a small shield, read/make an educated guess on their different mind set.

hopefully this makes sense, my comp kept messing up and I had to edit this a bunch .-.

 

[louie g]

How often do you dudes shield break? Is it a very common thing, or is it situational?

I love finding ways to sneak in a down B to catch a shield, but when it comes to online, I get super nervous and mistime it, I feel like I can do it on plenty of bots in offline play, but that's not really impressive.

 

[ewhoou]

I have trouble with Donkey Kong's spikes and when to use them. If anyone has some advice I would enjoy it.

 

[CommanderVimes]

Lots of text, but I'm quoting Big O in the Comp thread who went into spikes in good detail. In general, I'd say that sticking with Dair and Fair is best, and the difference lies in their different timings to catch air dodges and area they cover.
That being said, I've seen more DKs go for Bair offstage to get KOs than the spikes. Faster and just as strong kill potential.

DK has 4 different spikes he can do from the air, so I think it helps to compare them to each other to see which one you should be using.

Dair - Strong spiking power. Hits on frames 14-16. Spikes below you or very close in front of him. 54 Total frames.

Fair - Strong spiking power. Hits on frames 18-22, spikes on frames 21-22. Spikes in an arc from a slight diagonal above you to slightly below you. Strongest spike by a small amount. 55 Total frames.

Side B - Weak spiking power. Hits on frames 20-21. Spikes near DK's lower body or close in front of him. Punishable on hit until higher %'s. 63 Total frames.

Down B - Medium spiking power. Hits on frames 19-21 and spikes on frames 28-30. Spikes in an arc from diagonally above you to below you. Widest arc and longest reach by a small amount. 61 Total frames.

The standouts here are Dair and Fair. Dair is the fastest by a non-trivial amount. The rest are all about the same speed wise, but Fair is way stronger than the other two. The fact that you can DI and fastfall during Fair/Dair is very useful. The fact that you can Turnaround/B-Reverse/Wavebounce with Side B and Down B is also useful, but being unable to DI/fastfall is overall a net loss for usability.

Down B's main benefit is being able to do it facing the wrong way and being the easiest one to land due to it's arc, range, and it's overall hitbox duration. The second hit can whiff if you are falling too fast or moving too fast and pass through them, but that is pretty rare. Fair spike is better overall, but this spike has its uses.

Side B's main benefit is being able to face the wrong way and having a mini stall effect. However, it sucks as a spike though due to being too weak, too laggy, and having small reach.

 

[Brickbox]

@ E ewhoou one mistake I made when I first started smash was throwing advatagious situations away because I went for spikes.
Spikes are great but just keep in mind how fantastic your gimp moves are. Spikes may be cool but at the end of the day a kill is a kill.

 

[Smog Frog]

what is custom mu vs ? i'm seeking a secondary for

 

[CELTiiC]

what is custom mu vs ? i'm seeking a secondary for

I wouldn't rely on custom DK to be your secondary or counter for ZSS. ZSS has been a bad matchup for DK since her arrival in Brawl and it appears to be that same way in Sm4sh in my experience.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

how do you fight against zoners?

 

[Dark Phazon]

Is there any use of this?
Just down air spike em right?

Anyone had any luck or know any tricks reguarding Ground Pound in the air?

 

[Big O]

Is there any use of this?
Just down air spike em right?

Anyone had any luck or know any tricks reguarding Ground Pound in the air?

Next time use the Q&A thread for simple questions like this. My post on DK's spikes is probably relevant here.

DK has 4 different spikes he can do from the air, so I think it helps to compare them to each other to see which one you should be using.

Dair - Strong spiking power. Hits on frames 14-16. Spikes below you or very close in front of him. 54 Total frames.

Fair - Strong spiking power. Hits on frames 18-22, spikes on frames 21-22. Spikes in an arc from a slight diagonal above you to slightly below you. Strongest spike by a small amount. 55 Total frames.

Side B - Weak spiking power. Hits on frames 20-21. Spikes near DK's lower body or close in front of him. Punishable on hit until higher %'s. 63 Total frames.

Down B - Medium spiking power. Hits on frames 19-21 and spikes on frames 28-30. Spikes in an arc from diagonally above you to below you. Widest arc and longest reach by a small amount. 61 Total frames.

The standouts here are Dair and Fair. Dair is the fastest by a non-trivial amount. The rest are all about the same speed wise, but Fair is way stronger than the other two. The fact that you can DI and fastfall during Fair/Dair is very useful. The fact that you can Turnaround/B-Reverse/Wavebounce with Side B and Down B is also useful, but being unable to DI/fastfall is overall a net loss for usability.

Down B's main benefit is being able to do it facing the wrong way and being the easiest one to land due to it's arc, range, and it's overall hitbox duration. The second hit can whiff if you are falling too fast or moving too fast and pass through them, but that is pretty rare. Fair spike is better overall, but this spike has its uses.

Side B's main benefit is being able to face the wrong way and having a mini stall effect. However, it sucks as a spike though due to being too weak, too laggy, and having small reach.

Basically aerial Down B is his easiest spike to land because of how wide the arc of the move hits. Hitting with the second part is also guaranteed to spike, unlike all of the other spikes that have zones that don't spike.

 

[Drippy]

I've recently decided to pick up Donkey Kong because I have loads of fun playing him and he's my go-to For Glory character that I always choose and I've already played like 50+ games with him I'm pretty sure out of my 70 FG games. Are there any basic Donkey Kong stuff I should know that I should be doing both in singles and doubles if possible?

 

[SuperSwagBros]

I played a windy expand dong that other day. Holy damn that upb is crazy. The are the worst stages for dks up special? It's difficult for me to punish dk's landing if it's edge-canceled of if the player just lands on the platform quickly enough to just not get the longer landing lag. The player I was up against never messed it up.
As a Pikachu player, I found myself not being able to punish or trade with the up special. So shielding was the only option. Jumping out of shield too early meant that I got caught in the wind & pulled up. Jumping too late meant that I was unable to punish & going to another ride on the donkeycopter.

If you want to look at the video, it's at the 2 hour & 32 minute mark.
http://www.twitch.tv/adaptchance/b/652528830

Any tips are apprciated. Please share with me your secrets fellow smashers.

 

[Big O]

I played a windy expand dong that other day. Holy damn that upb is crazy. The are the worst stages for dks up special? It's difficult for me to punish dk's landing if it's edge-canceled of if the player just lands on the platform quickly enough to just not get the longer landing lag. The player I was up against never messed it up.
As a Pikachu player, I found myself not being able to punish or trade with the up special. So shielding was the only option. Jumping out of shield too early meant that I got caught in the wind & pulled up. Jumping too late meant that I was unable to punish & going to another ride on the donkeycopter.

If you want to look at the video, it's at the 2 hour & 32 minute mark.
http://www.twitch.tv/adaptchance/b/652528830

Any tips are apprciated. Please share with me your secrets fellow smashers.

This thread is probably what you are looking for.

 

[Kaladin]

Hello, Dongs!

I'm visiting from the Pika boards.. What can Pika do against your windy kong uo B? Thanks!

 

[Big O]

Hello, Dongs!

I'm visiting from the Pika boards.. What can Pika do against your windy kong uo B? Thanks!

You should probably visit this thread.

 

[Jensm89]

Hello, fairly new to competitive smash. Are there any rules about what to do when, percentage damage wise? Also, recently I found a vid by vgbc that was a 20-30 min DK guide and now I can't find it. You know it?

 

[Big O]

Hello, fairly new to competitive smash. Are there any rules about what to do when, percentage damage wise? Also, recently I found a vid by vgbc that was a 20-30 min DK guide and now I can't find it. You know it?

There is only one rule. If you can end their stock, do it. Otherwise, doing as much damage as possible and setting up KO situations are what you should be doing.

Sorry, I'm not sure what video guide you are talking about.

I moved your post to the Q&A thread. Next time post your simple questions here instead of in a new thread.

 

[phili]

Hey guys, I picked up DK more seriously recently and have been getting very good results using him. However, one constant problem I've encountered is getting off the ledge. I noticed that DK's ledge get up and ledge roll are very slow and punishable compared to other characters I've played. I can't really figure out the best options for getting off the ledge because of this.

Let me know what you guys do to get off the ledge when your opponent is waiting near by to punish your get up option. Obviously I'm not asking for an option to do every time, but I feel like I need more options available to me as mixups so I don't become readable when on the ledge

 

[DomBadZZZ]

Quick Q: How do you cancel charging your punch in the air without airdodging?

 

[DomBadZZZ]

Hey guys, I picked up DK more seriously recently and have been getting very good results using him. However, one constant problem I've encountered is getting off the ledge. I noticed that DK's ledge get up and ledge roll are very slow and punishable compared to other characters I've played. I can't really figure out the best options for getting off the ledge because of this.

Let me know what you guys do to get off the ledge when your opponent is waiting near by to punish your get up option. Obviously I'm not asking for an option to do every time, but I feel like I need more options available to me as mixups so I don't become readable when on the ledge

It depends where they are and what theyre doing. if theyre shielding at the ledge i will often drop down, jump, and side-b there shield to try and break it. If they aren't ill either jump or do neutral get up. I've found that after neutral get up its best to do something fast because theyll be coming after you so jab or grab maybe dtilt. Also doing default grounded up-b after nuetral get up is really good if you know theyre coming for you can you can time the super armour frames well. hope this helps.

 

[Metalbro]

Quick Q: How do you cancel charging your punch in the air without airdodging?

Have you tried tapping r?