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Conditioning options.

Rango the Mercenary

The Mercenary
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If we are ever going to get any better as Ike mains, I think it's time we took our game to the next level. We can space, play defensive, play patient, and UThrow Fair combo all we want. But if our opponent knows how we play and the basics of Ike, they are going to wreck us.

Ryo plays without fear. He goes in with highly confident reads, opting not to use a surefire combo just to goad the opponent into a bad option, and punish them twice as hard with a Smash, a Dair spike, or any number of early kill or damage gaining options.

Rather than go for a potential, surefire combo or followup, we could try using more airdodge baiting. For starters, the most basic of conditioning comes from UThrow at high percents. Past 90%, we have our opponents using an airdodge to avoid the incoming Nair or Fair. At 90%, they are prime for Uair to kill them off the top. Granted, this is not guaranteed, as higher level players choose to jump away instead, avoiding both options altogether. But for those that don't, or are not aware that Fair may not combo at that percent, it's our opportunity to send out Uair to finish the stock.

Simple airdodge reads and positioning offstage is another way to end a stock. Opponents who habitually recover low are most susceptible to Dair. Our Dair has a spike that comes out at Frame 16. It comes down to choosing to pop it immediately when falling off or baiting an airdodge. This is a risky move, but also fairly effective.

Now, we get into more dire situations where it becomes a true risk, but a sweet reward. We could very well pop Fair right after DTilt, but if someone is DIing away, we might not reach them. But if they choose to airdodge, by the time they do it, they may very well be within range. They have also pushed further away from the stage, and if the Fair connects at this point, it can be the end of the stock right there as they're close to the ledge.

Learning to read airdodges into Fairs and Bairs will separate Ike from being the character who is defensive, patient, and relies on straightforward combos, and into a risktaker who deals sufficient damage and early kills from those who misposition their defensive options. It could come down to any number of offensive aerials that take away our lead, but if we condition their defense instead, it's all that more important we take the stock instead.

Ryo says it's highly important we need to condition our opponents. It makes the difference between dragging out a fight and relying on a defensive, punishing Fair, and using the element of surprise to force an airdodge from an otherwise surefire combo or followup and into something devastating. That's why you see him using USmash and FSmash to finish stocks very early.

As the meta evolves and players learn the Ike matchup, it's becoming more apparent than before that we need to apply this strategy to our playstyle. Find examples of matches where an Ike player conditions another opponent and post it here. Any sort of lead-in or followup to a lethal Smash or aerial, which could have been avoided, is welcome. And extra damage building options, such as the footstool combos, are also welcome.
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
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Here's the 'stupid' test to weed out to unfortunate.

Go for a uthrow at 50-60, then go for a charged up smash. Always kills from an air dodge. That's the simplest way to dispatch people who just spam air dodge mindlessly. I call it the wifi since it shouldn't work anywhere else, but it does.

As far as easybake conditioning goes:

  • Combo more with nair/uair at lower %. You really get to understand their air dodge habits that way. There's little reason to hit with fair unless you're confident you can follow up and continue the chase.
  • Go for the footstool at low %, it can lead to big damage. If you mess up, you can still capitalize, especially if they air dodge.
  • Do ledge trumps, bait ledge trumps, and punish jump from ledge/release from ledge into an aerial depending on the MU. Easiest way to get smashes.
  • Occasionally pressure offstage and see how they respond to you.
  • Creatively punish double jumps and landings with various methods. I like chasing double jumps since it can catch opponents offguard when they double jump high.
Those are the easiest. As far as conditioning in neutral goes, that's much harder. You really need to play normally and pinpoint a few patterns as best you can. Once you pinpoint at least 1 pattern, try to get that pattern to trigger from them and seize the opportunity. Some players do the same thing, others always mix up (which is also a pattern), and others are just reactive. Usually players just mess up and provide holes, but it's good to keep notes on patterns to force holes.

There's a difference between a read and desperation. You need to gather info from the set (and possibly previous sets). You also need to understand how well they know your playstyle so you can adapt from your own tendencies.
 

PyroTakun

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Ta-kun
Not really a condition, but a good way to see how your opponent reacts to things is to hit them with Jab 1 and then wait.
 

Rango the Mercenary

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One thought came to mind. Using DTilt early to fake-out catching the 2-frame. Even if we don't, we have options. But it comes down to 2 things.

1) Can we get a ledge trump Bair?
2) Can we shield?

If they think they're going to counterattack us for attempting DTilt, we can shield and punish the incoming attack option. If they stall at the ledge and we're right at the end of it (hence the feint, as opposed to spacing the DTilt), we can snap the ledge very quickly.

We can also use retreating Nair to hit rollers, which is a common edgeguard for us, or we can simply jump backwards and fake it.

Most of who I face tends to jump up from the ledge. I still have trouble punishing this since it's very hard to read. They can just airdodge right after or attack. I'm debating whether Fair or Uair would be the best option in that scenario.
 

PyroTakun

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Most of who I face tends to jump up from the ledge. I still have trouble punishing this since it's very hard to read. They can just airdodge right after or attack. I'm debating whether Fair or Uair would be the best option in that scenario.
F-Air has more range to it and will catch them throwing out attacks, where U-Air will catch the airdodge.

I'd say F-Air is the better of the two, so throw that out and see how they react. If they airdodge it, do the U-Air next time. Basically you can pick one to condition them with, then go for the other when they catch on.
 

Arrei

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How about pivot options at the ledge? A regular pivot or PP Fsmash is a disastrously effective option against those who like to use ledge release aerials. Can it also catch opponents who are prone to jumping and airdodging?
 
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PyroTakun

Smash Journeyman
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How about pivot options at the ledge? A regular pivot or PP Fsmash is a disastrously effective option against those who like to use ledge release aerials. Can it also catch opponents who are prone to jumping and airdodging?
I think they can jump over it if you space it too far and do a get-up attack if you're too close. I definitely like the idea of it as a mix-up though, great after you conditioned someone and go for a hard read.

Also, idk why, but I just remembered a conversation I had with Average Joe a really long time ago. He said with DK if him and his opponent are in the air and DK has his back facing the opponent, it's a frame trap. If the opponent does nothing or air-dodges, he gets a B-Air. If the opponent tries to jump above him, he jumps with them and does U-Air. Granted DK is different from Ike (he can spam B-Air unlike us), but I was thinking we could do the same thing. Or maybe this is already common knowledge already.
 

Arrei

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I don't think we can do that if we're both in the air, since Ike's aerial FAFs are awful, but closer to the ground I know I've occasionally had a descending opponent trapped by autocanceled Fair into a ground option if they airdodge.
 
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