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Concerns about competitive viability?

LucasTizma

Smash Rookie
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Apr 21, 2010
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EDIT: I think the discussions have been great. I should clarify that primarily I was curious if competitive players will eventually give up on Ultimate because of things like balloon physics, buffering quirks, input delay, no quick full hop aerials, etc., punishing competitive players in lieu of catering to more casual players.

I consider myself a competitive player who's looking to break into true competitive, tournament play eventually. Despite my frustrations with some of Smash 4's mechanics, I never felt like the game wasn't viable competitively. I'm getting that feeling with Smash Ultimate primarily because of the confirmed input delay. In conjunction with the fact that the new physics basically limit the combo game, I'm not sure how I feel about the viability of intense competitive play.

Granted, much of my issues are things I just have to work through with a new game, but even still, does anyone else have any thoughts or concerns about the long-term viability of competitive Ultimate given some of the mechanic changes, non-trivial input delay, and new/weird buffering rules?
 
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KACHOW!!!

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No smash game besides melee will ever have "evergreen" competitive viability. There's never going to be a smash game besides melee that you can pick up and play in 2018 and then pick up and play in 2038 (assuming global warming hasn't destroyed us all, not joking). Just accept that and then ask yourself how committed to smash ultimate you are. You'll probably find some weekly tournament and either be way at the bottom of the stack or crushing and dominating people left and right.

Watch this, then ask yourself if you really want to play smash Ultimate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VAOnY91Dtk
 

Gearkeeper-8a

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competitive viability is a meangless term, almost anything can be considered competitive, the real important thing is if enjoyable for the competidors, viewers, or if raises money, this is something you should ask yourself , do you enjoy the game??? if yes then i dont see the problem, if not, then wait some time and look if things improve.
 

Ajani

Smash Apprentice
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No smash game besides melee will ever have "evergreen" competitive viability. There's never going to be a smash game besides melee that you can pick up and play in 2018 and then pick up and play in 2038 (assuming global warming hasn't destroyed us all, not joking). Just accept that and then ask yourself how committed to smash ultimate you are. You'll probably find some weekly tournament and either be way at the bottom of the stack or crushing and dominating people left and right.

Watch this, then ask yourself if you really want to play smash Ultimate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VAOnY91Dtk
I mean he doesnt sound like he can't commit.

It seems the competitive viability of the game is the amount of support it gets in the E-Sport scene. Now days games like Overwatch got a massive investment from big names to be pushed into that scene and Fortnite is well on its way as well. For a game like Smash I've never felt that Nintendo gave it that level of support.

Good video, commitment is a big thing. If your end goal is not to be the best then esports is probably not meant for you. Lots of people in epsorts are ready to sacrifice so much to move further. Not that it should be the norm but that kind of dedication is necessary.
 

S_B

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Ultimate tournaments are already loads of fun to watch, so I'd say it's competitively viable, yes.
 

Lord_Ghirahim

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Nov 6, 2018
Messages
59
Long-time Melee player here to say that, in my opinion, this new game is super fun to play. So if you want to be competitive and improve, just go for it!

People even played Brawl competitively, all that matters is that you have fun competing or watching others competing.
Keep playing and see how the meta develops and how you feel about it.
 
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Browny

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I consider myself a competitive player who's looking to break into true competitive, tournament play eventually. Despite my frustrations with some of Smash 4's mechanics, I never felt like the game wasn't viable competitively. I'm getting that feeling with Smash Ultimate primarily because of the confirmed input delay. In conjunction with the fact that the new physics basically limit the combo game, I'm not sure how I feel about the viability of intense competitive play.

Granted, much of my issues are things I just have to work through with a new game, but even still, does anyone else have any thoughts or concerns about the long-term viability of competitive Ultimate given some of the mechanic changes, non-trivial input delay, and new/weird buffering rules?
I wrote a big post about this yesterday, but the lowered hitstun, ballooning knockback physics and directional airdodges all combine to give the character in the 'disadvantage' state far too many options to escape. Melee was all about what characters could press their advantage state for as long as possible, brawl saw a near total backflip where it was all about the neutral game, stray hits, rinse and repeat. Smash 4 brought in many combos but Ultimate is reverting back to brawl where the game is more about who can win neutral more often instead of certain characters being able to hold an advantage.

The top tiers in this game are looking like the kings of neutral, there isn't anything wrong with that. But anyone who hated on brawl for being 'boring' should probably go and watch some top level melee/brawl/smash 4 and tell me what ultimate looks more like.
 

PURGE THEM LIKE THE

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I don't find the input delay to be anymore noticeable than sm4sh, which I also found unnoticeable.

I don't know what you're talking about with combos being limited. The balloon knockback is for attacks that would launch you too far to follow up upon even if it was normal knockback. The 2 changes that do remove some combos are footstools being techable and not being forced into neutral getup when you're jab locked, and even if I disagree with them they are understandable since they allowed a bunch of 0-deaths and infinites. If anything I'd expect there to be more combos than sm4sh, not including including footstool combos, because of the universal landing lag, mobility, and jumpsquat buffs.

Maybe this video will restore your faith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBHMgR0v06A&app=desktop

I don't appreciate the new buffering system either, but maybe I won't mind after I've played more and built some new muscle memory. We'll see.
 

KACHOW!!!

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competitive viability is a meangless term, almost anything can be considered competitive, the real important thing is if enjoyable for the competidors, viewers, or if raises money, this is something you should ask yourself , do you enjoy the game??? if yes then i dont see the problem, if not, then wait some time and look if things improve.
I don't think competitive viability is a meaningless term. Correct me if i'm wrong, but what you were trying to find out when you asked the question LucasTizma LucasTizma was something along the lines of "will people be playing this game in tournaments in 2, 5, or even 10 years from now", and to that point we all know exactly what the term 'competitive viability' is: it means 'am I wasting my time trying to learn a game which nobody will be playing in the near future'. That's why I think the correct answer to Lucas's question is basically: go for it. Even top melee players (leffen, m2k, armada) are showing interest, so if you're interested in playing a ge that will definitely be around for 2-5 years then go for it. It might last longer, and I could be wrong about how long it will be around, but 2-5 years at the very least seems like a safe bet.
 

KACHOW!!!

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Also as a note on the buffering system: you might not 'like' that system in the game, and you might not like the parry system either, but its a tool your opponents will learn and use against you, so you may as well learn how to take advantage of it. You might grow to like it when you start winning games because you parry a successfully read attack from your opponent.
 
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LightLV

Smash Ace
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Nov 17, 2014
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748
1) look at who the best players say are top tier

2) play them

3) determine why they've come to this conclusion / read their thoughts / ask them

4) armed with your new knowledge, find out for yourself
competitive viability is a meangless term, almost anything can be considered competitive.
This is very decidedly not true.

edit:

I consider myself a competitive player who's looking to break into true competitive, tournament play eventually. Despite my frustrations with some of Smash 4's mechanics, I never felt like the game wasn't viable competitively. I'm getting that feeling with Smash Ultimate primarily because of the confirmed input delay. In conjunction with the fact that the new physics basically limit the combo game, I'm not sure how I feel about the viability of intense competitive play.
If you felt like Smash 4 was competitively viable, then you should have no issue with Ultimate.

Even with its input lag (which isn't even that big a deal TBH) the game feels infinitely more responsive than Smash 4 simply based off the fact that movement has been improved across the board and all the characters have way better options.

Combos are longer, again, across the board. Almost everyone can deal a decent amount of damage off a low% hit now.


Granted, much of my issues are things I just have to work through with a new game, but even still, does anyone else have any thoughts or concerns about the long-term viability of competitive Ultimate given some of the mechanic changes, non-trivial input delay, and new/weird buffering rules?
This game will probably last longer than Smash4 solely off the fact that it's mechanics are more geared towards competitive play in the first place
 
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Emblem Lord

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I consider myself a competitive player who's looking to break into true competitive, tournament play eventually. Despite my frustrations with some of Smash 4's mechanics, I never felt like the game wasn't viable competitively. I'm getting that feeling with Smash Ultimate primarily because of the confirmed input delay. In conjunction with the fact that the new physics basically limit the combo game, I'm not sure how I feel about the viability of intense competitive play.

Granted, much of my issues are things I just have to work through with a new game, but even still, does anyone else have any thoughts or concerns about the long-term viability of competitive Ultimate given some of the mechanic changes, non-trivial input delay, and new/weird buffering rules?
Brawl saw tournament play.

Let that sink in.
 

LightLV

Smash Ace
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Brawl saw tournament play.

Let that sink in.
even at its worse Brawl was significantly more interesting than Smash 4

imo if OP thinks Smash 4 was a good spectator sport then any other smash game should be Marvel 3 levels of hype right now
 

RepStar

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Brawl was a better smash than this game. It was slow and techical, this game is too quick for any window of '"combo" extension and characters fly away TOO easily. Game is unbelievably broken for competitive play which is OK, because its a party game BUT unfair and frustrating. Tripping was brawls only issue, plenty of metaknights in smash ultimate. Why do certain characters move faster than others in ultimate? How is chrom vs mewtwo a fair fight? Chrom is cheap and is for scrubs along with any other sword characters . scrub trash characters.
 

Emblem Lord

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Brawl was a better smash than this game. It was slow and techical, this game is too quick for any window of '"combo" extension and characters fly away TOO easily. Game is unbelievably broken for competitive play which is OK, because its a party game BUT unfair and frustrating. Tripping was brawls only issue, plenty of metaknights in smash ultimate. Why do certain characters move faster than others in ultimate? How is chrom vs mewtwo a fair fight? Chrom is cheap and is for scrubs along with any other sword characters . scrub trash characters.
Holy crap my brain hurts.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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I do think the term competitively viable is meaningless in the larger picture.

A lot of people said it and I think it is what matters, do you enjoy it and do you want to play the game at that level?

I did this with Mario Kart 8, I prefer the craziness with all items on. Looking at other games, I learned my enjoyment in 64 was the lowest with that game so my interest and focus shifted away.

Ultimate has all my attention and I will practice in it. Asking questions for an informed decision Is good but I don’t think it can sell you more on it over just trying the game out and seeing where you stand with it.
 

Necro'lic

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I do think what the OP might meaning is less about "can this game be played competitively?" and more "will this game be played competitively for a long time?"

I honestly can't say. While I love the changes done in this game, I also feel like they didn't go far enough in terms of changing things up on the high-level end. I think this question stems from the ever looming thought that Melee will be the only long running Smash title solely off of its competitive basis, which MIGHT seem that way, unless Sakurai does do what he said and revamps the series in the next entry, in which case Smash 6 and Ultimate could be as different to each other as Ultimate and Melee are.

But I think we are looking at this in the wrong way by trying to look at specifics in the games themselves rather than how players interact as a whole. This balloon knockback talk that I've been seeing in this thread lately is honestly not worth talking about, because it's clearly established that that mechanic is meant to decrease downtime during the periods neither player can directly interact, so high level player interaction is, in theory, not affected by it at all.

Now are we going to talk about why Melee has lasted so long as a competitive force in fighting games and how Ultimate fairs? Well to compare the two, Melee has more overall options the players can do during the match. However, due to Ultimate's slightly slower overall pace and easier to read animations, I would go as far as saying that Ultimate is the better game in terms of spectatorship, which, believe it or not, is MORE important than competitive depth in terms of longevity of a game.

However, this only appeals to the casual and semi-casual masses, which means the core playerbase of Ultimate MIGHT become less robust than Melee's in the long run. What ends up mattering is the potential for how these spectators end up seeing the game and playing the game itself. Luckily, Smash Bros is an easy to pick up series, and Ultimate wins over Melee in that regard as well due to easier to intuit controls and techniques.

Even though it sounds like this is all in Ultimate's favor, that last part of player options creeps in again. Options matter to a core fanbase, and is what can give a game breadth and depth all in one. Ultimate, compared to Melee, gives far fewer potential options for player interaction, though nowhere near as bad as Brawl or Smash 4.

As a summary, Ultimate wins over Melee in terms of general spectatorship and ease of entry, but Melee wins heavily in building a core fanbase. It's because of these that I can conclude that Melee will still win out in longevity over Ultimate in the end, but will still wane in popularity as the non-core fans continue to leave, and the lack of easy entry means the numbers may not grow as strong as they could if Melee had Ultimate's positive traits.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personal opinion is that I like Ultimate and am personally conflicted towards Melee, mostly because, as a budding game designer, Melee is BEGGING to be revamped into a proper spectator esport that is properly "easy to learn, hard to master" instead of the current "easy to pick up, hard to learn and master". And the overall success of Melee kinda infuriates me in a different sense; the more time it is not dethroned as the definitive competitive Smash Bros game, the more stuck we become as Melee eventually atrophies and nothing else is there to replace it.

In addition, we also get more and more hardcore fans who turn their nose against anything not resembling Melee, even if those changes are improvements to the overall experience. I've already been getting this vibe across the forums here and on reddit. People wanting DACUS back even though you could just add the much better proper wavedash and be done with it, people who think the pinnacle of skill involves either the amount of buttons needed to do a singular maneuver or how difficult it is to pull it off at all rather than how you USE those maneuvers to win, people not wanting nerfs but for everyone to be buffed to S tier levels, even though most likely S tiers are S tiers because they are imbalanced compared to not only the other characters, but against the median the game itself seems to be designed around.

These are personal gripes that mean little to this discussion, mind you, so you can ignore this second part if you wish.
 

Sean²

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Brawl was a better smash than this game. It was slow and techical, this game is too quick for any window of '"combo" extension and characters fly away TOO easily. Game is unbelievably broken for competitive play which is OK, because its a party game BUT unfair and frustrating. Tripping was brawls only issue, plenty of metaknights in smash ultimate. Why do certain characters move faster than others in ultimate? How is chrom vs mewtwo a fair fight? Chrom is cheap and is for scrubs along with any other sword characters . scrub trash characters.
Brawl also had stupidly easy chainthrows, game breaking infinites, defensive options that required rules to be created in an attempt to salvage the competitive scene from just stalling to time every game, and a character who's worst matchup was 50:50 (which I believe was still debatable as in his advantage in the end). Add random tripping as a weird attempt conceived to specifically quell any kind of competitive play, and that spells out "broken game". I think Brawl gets a way worse rap than it deserves from those who had never played it in competition and only go by heresay. It was not a bad game. But looking at it competitively, the flaws have been and always will be glaring.

Smash 4 had a decent lifespan, really only weakened by the final DLC onslaught and finally put to rest by Ultimate's release. I feel like Ultimate will suffer the same fate unless no more Smash titles are released.
 

RepStar

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Brawl also had stupidly easy chainthrows, game breaking infinites, defensive options that required rules to be created in an attempt to salvage the competitive scene from just stalling to time every game, and a character who's worst matchup was 50:50 (which I believe was still debatable as in his advantage in the end). Add random tripping as a weird attempt conceived to specifically quell any kind of competitive play, and that spells out "broken game". I think Brawl gets a way worse rap than it deserves from those who had never played it in competition and only go by heresay. It was not a bad game. But looking at it competitively, the flaws have been and always will be glaring.

Smash 4 had a decent lifespan, really only weakened by the final DLC onslaught and finally put to rest by Ultimate's release. I feel like Ultimate will suffer the same fate unless no more Smash titles are released.
Brawl is not broken. Melee was the most broken pos ever. It wasnt a pos but, still a broken glitch. Competitive smash exists because of exploited glitches and bugs. Brawl is the best smash. Ultimates movement is more restricted than brawl. Rather have slow gameplay over restrictive suffocating controls like in ultimate where u can only air dodge once.
 

Marmotbro

Smash Apprentice
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plenty of metaknights in smash ultimate.
well that was the problem with :metaknight:. He was the only character that played like that. Even with the unbalanced mess Melee is you have like 7-8 characters you can choose from. Brawl was :metaknight:,:popo:,:diddy:,:olimar: and maybe :snake: if you were brave.

Brawl is not broken. Melee was the most broken pos ever. It wasnt a pos but, still a broken glitch. Competitive smash exists because of exploited glitches and bugs.
Woah there, grassroots melee tourneys were going on before anyone even know what a wavedash even was. Glitches have little or nothing to do with Melee's longevity. You wanna talk about meta defining broken mechanics, Brawl :metaknight: and :popo: wanna say hi.

Ultimates movement is more restricted than brawl.
Oh ****. This whole time you were just baiting us. Well played, try not to make it so obvious next time.
 

RepStar

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well that was the problem with :metaknight:. He was the only character that played like that. Even with the unbalanced mess Melee is you have like 7-8 characters you can choose from. Brawl was :metaknight:,:popo:,:diddy:,:olimar: and maybe :snake: if you were brave.



Woah there, grassroots melee tourneys were going on before anyone even know what a wavedash even was. Glitches have little or nothing to do with Melee's longevity. You wanna talk about meta defining broken mechanics, Brawl :metaknight: and :popo: wanna say hi.



Oh ****. This whole time you were just baiting us. Well played, try not to make it so obvious next time.
Not baiting at all, troll. Its called an opinion. Feel free to vs me in ultimate since youre so offended about any criticism towards this game. Im waiting.
 

Marmotbro

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148
Not baiting at all, troll. Its called an opinion.
Ultimate is objectively faster then Brawl, not to mention the game lets you actually run without fear of tripping over your own feet. That alone makes it less restrictive. And in ultimate you need to play more footsies and be more active as you are not allowed to spam rolls, and you actually need to learn to time airdodges.. Everyone in ultimate has reduced jumpsquat, even the fastest jumping characters in brawl had a frame more then slow jobbers in ultimate like D3 and Bowser, letting you get more creative with your neutral game. It is just not true that it is more restrictive, in some ways, it is the least restrictive movement has ever been in the series. I guess Gliding was nice, but only like 3 characters had it and it was ridiculously strong for recovering.

You either need to go back and play brawl without your nostalgia goggles or bait harder.

Feel free to vs me in ultimate since youre so offended about any criticism towards this game. Im waiting.
Ah yes, the internet tough guy. ultimate is not without criticisms, I have plenty, but the movement is definitely not one of them.
 

RepStar

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Ultimate is objectively faster then Brawl, not to mention the game lets you actually run without fear of tripping over your own feet. That alone makes it less restrictive. And in ultimate you need to play more footsies and be more active as you are not allowed to spam rolls, and you actually need to learn to time airdodges.. Everyone in ultimate has reduced jumpsquat, even the fastest jumping characters in brawl had a frame more then slow jobbers in ultimate like D3 and Bowser, letting you get more creative with your neutral game. It is just not true that it is more restrictive, in some ways, it is the least restrictive movement has ever been in the series. I guess Gliding was nice, but only like 3 characters had it and it was ridiculously strong for recovering.

You either need to go back and play brawl without your nostalgia goggles or bait harder.



Ah yes, the internet tough guy. ultimate is not without criticisms, I have plenty, but the movement is definitely not one of them.
I disagree and, still hold my opinion. Ultimates faster but feels restricted to me. And im not trying to be a tough guy; im not asking you for a real life fight. how'd you even assume that over a video game challenge, is this not smashboards or what. And again, im not sorry if my posts bother you but, theres no baiting here, stop with the reverse-trolling tactic.

But if you dont want to play thats fine, youre only like the 5th person that doesnt play ultimate for some reason but talk about it.
 
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Marmotbro

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I disagree and, still hold my opinion.
Well you are entitled to that at least.

. And im not trying to be a tough guy; im not asking you for a real life fight. how'd you even assume that over a video game challenge, is this not smashboards or what. And again, im not sorry if my posts bother you but, theres no baiting here, stop with the reverse-trolling tactic.
I never mistook a challenge in the game as a real fight. I called you an "internet tough guy" because you challenge me to a game instead of giving any real reason as to why you feel the way you do. Calling me a troll is not refutation, it is responding to tone. To be fair, i did do the same to you in my first reply, but point still stands. It doesn't bother me, I find this entertaining.

But if you dont want to play thats fine, youre only like the 5th person that doesnt play ultimate for some reason but talk about it
I don't see how you would come to that conclusion, so I'll just take that as a poor attempt at ad hominiem.
 
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Brawl was a better smash than this game. It was slow and techical, this game is too quick for any window of '"combo" extension and characters fly away TOO easily. Game is unbelievably broken for competitive play which is OK, because its a party game BUT unfair and frustrating. Tripping was brawls only issue, plenty of metaknights in smash ultimate. Why do certain characters move faster than others in ultimate? How is chrom vs mewtwo a fair fight? Chrom is cheap and is for scrubs along with any other sword characters . scrub trash characters.
low quality bait
 

zeldasmash

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Brawl was a better smash than this game. It was slow and techical, this game is too quick for any window of '"combo" extension and characters fly away TOO easily. Game is unbelievably broken for competitive play which is OK, because its a party game BUT unfair and frustrating. Tripping was brawls only issue, plenty of metaknights in smash ultimate. Why do certain characters move faster than others in ultimate? How is chrom vs mewtwo a fair fight? Chrom is cheap and is for scrubs along with any other sword characters . scrub trash characters.
I love me some Brawl but.....this is just objectively wrong. It's your opinion and you are entitled to it, just know that you are in the minority.
 

RepStar

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low quality bait
Maybe it wouldve been high quality bait if that were actually my intentions to start a flame war and, get modded. But i don't say what i say to entertain you.

Well you are entitled to that at least.



I never mistook a challenge in the game as a real fight. I called you an "internet tough guy" because you challenge me to a game instead of giving any real reason as to why you feel the way you do. Calling me a troll is not refutation, it is responding to tone. To be fair, i did do the same to you in my first reply, but point still stands. It doesn't bother me, I find this entertaining.



I don't see how you would come to that conclusion, so I'll just take that as a poor attempt at ad hominiem.
Didnt think youd care about me feeling the way i do about ultimates gameplay so i tried to keep my responses brief. And i came to that conclusion because i didnt see a yes or no answer. And take it how you want it wasnt personal, just a joke, but knowing how this convo started you chose to take it the wrong way again.
 

Marmotbro

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Didnt think youd care about me feeling the way i do about ultimates gameplay so i tried to keep my responses brief. And i came to that conclusion because i didnt see a yes or no answer.
Yes and no answers are so boring, aren't they? I don't care how you feel per se, but I am interested in what logic you use to back that opinion up.

And take it how you want it wasnt personal, just a joke, but knowing how this convo started you chose to take it the wrong way again.
Jokes are hard to tell in a text based conversation. Conversational humor and sarcasm rely heavily on delivery and tone, which is hard to read on a forum. I just took it at face value.
 

RepStar

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Yes and no answers are so boring, aren't they? I don't care how you feel per se, but I am interested in what logic you use to back that opinion up.



Jokes are hard to tell in a text based conversation. Conversational humor and sarcasm rely heavily on delivery and tone, which is hard to read on a forum. I just took it at face value.
Yea, i know reading texts can be confusing about deciding the tone of the convo. i shouldve added a few "lols" and smileys but im too tired, lol. Hell, thats why people always think im trolling too, but anyway, you need logic to back up what exactly? Why i said ultimate feels more restrictive? 'Cause i never said it wasnt faster btw.
 

Marmotbro

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you need logic to back up what exactly? Why i said ultimate feels more restrictive? 'Cause i never said it wasnt faster btw.
Yes I'm genuinely curious as to why you think Brawl is less restrictive.
 

himynameisruss

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Brawl is not broken. Melee was the most broken pos ever. It wasnt a pos but, still a broken glitch. Competitive smash exists because of exploited glitches and bugs. Brawl is the best smash. Ultimates movement is more restricted than brawl. Rather have slow gameplay over restrictive suffocating controls like in ultimate where u can only air dodge once.
this has got to be a troll account lol
 

Crystanium

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In my anger, I called SSBU, SSBB+. Still, I enjoy the game, and I'm not really certain as to what makes something "competitive". Unless something becomes competitive when people try to compete against each other. In that case, any game can be competitive, including rock throwing or spitting. There's also the issue of the word "competitive" being synonymous with "professional". I've always been competitive at SSB from the first day it was released for the N64. That doesn't mean I was a professional player. Anyone who plays SSBU, but doesn't attend tournaments may be considered competitive amateurs.

SSBU has combos. Most set-ups have been removed, but the combos are still there. Like SSBB, which I'm having some respect for in terms of competitive play, SSBU seems to be more neutral heavy. This doesn't mean, nor should it mean it's non-viable for professional esports. I'm not saying you're comparing SSBU to SSBM, but that's kind of the problem with many players. No SSB game will ever be SSBM, and I laugh to myself at those SSBM players who are picking up SSBU. Leffen, for example, looks like he's trying to follow in papa ZeRo's footsteps. He's sponsored by TSM. Oh, boy.
 

RepStar

Banned via Warnings
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Yes I'm genuinely curious as to why you think Brawl is less restrictive.
1.No DACUS discovered yet if it even exists.

2. I feel more tangible when im knocked into the air, 1-air dodge doesnt help either.

3.game feels more like (a slower
/floaty) melee. But faster than brawl.

4.keep in mind i skipped smash wii u entirely so, the premise of this game is entirely new to me. i went from brawl to this so, things may be more noticable to me than you that, i cant explain exactly.
 
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Sean²

Smash Capitalist
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Mar 28, 2008
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1.No DACUS discovered yet if it even exists.
DACUS in the form you know it was a Brawl-exclusive tech, Smash 4 either didn't have it at all, or it was patched out early. I can't remember

2. I feel more tangible when im knocked into the air, 1-air dodge doesnt help either.
I mean if you push L or R without holding a direction you will get the Brawl/Smash 4 airdodge - you don't go into freefall after airdodging and can do it again in some circumstances. I actually feel safer in the air due to the directional airdodging providing another option to escape. Baiting airdodges for a punish is a lot harder now since they can move in any direction with an airdodge - you also have to guess which way they're going.

4.keep in mind i skipped smash wii u entirely so, the premise of this game is entirely new to me. i went from brawl to this so, things may be more noticable to me than you that, i cant explain exactly.
This is probably your biggest issue then, in terms of gameplay, it's still closest to Smash 4. Others who played both games extensively can probably attest to this. There are some characters that are basically carbon copies of their Smash 4 iteration. For example Duck Hunt - I can jump in a game as him and it just feels like Smash 4 in terms of moving the character and creating setups. They may not have the same effect, but the feel of the character is almost identical. One could probably jump between the two games in a fairly seamless fashion. Less so with the older games.
 
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RepStar

Banned via Warnings
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DACUS in the form you know it was a Brawl-exclusive tech, Smash 4 either didn't have it at all, or it was patched out early. I can't remember



I mean if you push L or R without holding a direction you will get the Brawl/Smash 4 airdodge - you don't go into freefall after airdodging and can do it again in some circumstances. I actually feel safer in the air due to the directional airdodging providing another option to escape. Baiting airdodges for a punish is a lot harder now since they can move in any direction with an airdodge - you also have to guess which way they're going.



This is probably your biggest issue then, in terms of gameplay, it's still closest to Smash 4. Others who played both games extensively can probably attest to this. There are some characters that are basically carbon copies of their Smash 4 iteration. For example Duck Hunt - I can jump in a game as him and it just feels like Smash 4 in terms of moving the character and creating setups. They may not have the same effect, but the feel of the character is almost identical. One could probably jump between the two games in a fairly seamless fashion. Less so with the older games.
Still prefer brawl nonetheless.
 

iankobe

Smash Lord
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My advice for the entire Smash competitive community is to be patient. The game is still very new and will be tweaked (i hope) down the road as we've only just scratched the surface of this game's potential.

Granted, anything can be played in a competitive manner regardless of the game's mechanics. Think of it this way, if Melee never existed, will we even have this type of expectations of how a Smash game is supposed to be like? We can have a game of "Who can flick their boogers the furthest" and be competitive about it too :3

Input lag? Adapt it. My way of thinking of how to go around about it is to (maybe?) predict what your opponent is going to do (as we do in other smash games) extra early and buffer your move ASAP. Trust me, I feel your pain as I've been playing against a casual friend (i came from a melee background) and I can predict 80% of what he's about to do but couldn't punish him because of my timing :/
 
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RepStar

Banned via Warnings
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That feel when someone deflects with "it's my opinion so it can't be wrong i win".
Thats a feel you must crave then because i never said i was right. I even upvoted the person that said i was wrong. But whatever.
 

Marmotbro

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
148
1.No DACUS discovered yet if it even exists.

2. I feel more tangible when im knocked into the air, 1-air dodge doesnt help either.

3.game feels more like (a slower
/floaty) melee. But faster than brawl.

4.keep in mind i skipped smash wii u entirely so, the premise of this game is entirely new to me. i went from brawl to this so, things may be more noticable to me than you that, i cant explain exactly.

Interesting take. I don't agree but i buy it.
 
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