#### Doval

##### Smash Lord

@
Thinkaman
(and everyone else who helped) awesome work, the info in this thread is super useful.

Is there any chance you'd consider reporting more meaningful knockback values? In my opinion the raw BKB and KBG values are useless for comparing moves directly. BKB isn't an accurate reflection of a move's base knockback since it doesn't include the other constants in the knockback formula. It also doesn't include the fixed amount of knockback resulting from the fact that the move increases the enemy's %. KBG doesn't account for the move's damage, so you can't compare moves with different damages directly, and it's not in the same units/scale as BKB so you can't compare them to each other either.

Right now the only useful metric for "move power" in the data is the KO %, but that says much more about knockback growth than base knockback. Personally I'd prefer:

I derived those numbers by substituting

Weight Factor = 200/(weight + 100)

Knockback = Fixed KB + Weight Factor * (Strength KB + Growth Factor * Enemy %)

EDIT:

As an example, I'll run the numbers with

Fixed + Strength KB: 35.169

Growth Factor: 0.567

Fixed + Strength KB: 75.85

Growth Factor: 1.19

At F-tilt's KO % (281), the total knockback would be 35.169 + 0.567 * 281 = 194.496.

At F-smash's KO % (101), the total knockback would be 75.85 + 1.19 * 101 = 196.04.

Both values are close, so the math appears to check out. The difference probably comes from the limited precision of the KO %s. So these numbers are an apples-to-apples comparison between both moves.

EDIT 2: Chose better names for the terms (I hope).

Is there any chance you'd consider reporting more meaningful knockback values? In my opinion the raw BKB and KBG values are useless for comparing moves directly. BKB isn't an accurate reflection of a move's base knockback since it doesn't include the other constants in the knockback formula. It also doesn't include the fixed amount of knockback resulting from the fact that the move increases the enemy's %. KBG doesn't account for the move's damage, so you can't compare moves with different damages directly, and it's not in the same units/scale as BKB so you can't compare them to each other either.

Right now the only useful metric for "move power" in the data is the KO %, but that says much more about knockback growth than base knockback. Personally I'd prefer:

**Fixed Knockback:**BKB + 0.18 * KBG**Growth Factor:**0.0007 * (Damage + 2) * KBG**Strength Knockback:**Growth Factor * Damage*Fixed KB*is the portion of knockback that's completely static.*Growth Factor*is the amount of knockback the move gains per point of damage the enemy has*before*getting hit (subject to weight scaling.)*Strength KB*is the knockback from the damage the move causes to the opponent (also subject to weight.)I derived those numbers by substituting

*p*with*% before the attack + Damage*and*s*with*KBG/100*in the knockback formula in SSBwiki.com and doing some basic algebra, which ultimately yields:Weight Factor = 200/(weight + 100)

Knockback = Fixed KB + Weight Factor * (Strength KB + Growth Factor * Enemy %)

*Y*ou can simplify this a bit by setting*Weight Factor*to 1 (which is the case for medium weight Miis) so that*Fixed KB*and*Strength KB*can be added together. Then you'd be left with only two numbers again, except that unlike BKB and KBG they can be used directly to compare moves at a glance or calculate knockback. If you wanted to be really thorough, you could provide these two numbers for Bowser and Jigglypuff's weights as well to show how weight affects the move.EDIT:

As an example, I'll run the numbers with

*Weight Factor = 1*on Samus's f-tilt (7%, 15b/90g) and f-smash (15%, 40b/100g). Both have the same angle (361) so you'd expect the total knockback at their KO %s to match.**F-tilt:**Fixed + Strength KB: 35.169

Growth Factor: 0.567

**F-smash:**Fixed + Strength KB: 75.85

Growth Factor: 1.19

At F-tilt's KO % (281), the total knockback would be 35.169 + 0.567 * 281 = 194.496.

At F-smash's KO % (101), the total knockback would be 75.85 + 1.19 * 101 = 196.04.

Both values are close, so the math appears to check out. The difference probably comes from the limited precision of the KO %s. So these numbers are an apples-to-apples comparison between both moves.

EDIT 2: Chose better names for the terms (I hope).

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