1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

  3. Use the Smashboards Store to get awesome Smash stuff and support the site, like a Nintendo Controller or the Wii U - Gamecube adaptor ! Check out the inventory in our store and support Smashboards with your purchase today!

Data Complete Frame Data Repository - kuroganehammer.com

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by KuroganeHammer, Oct 25, 2015.

  1. Lavani

    Lavani
    Expand Collapse
    Indigo Destiny

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    Messages:
    6,972
    Necessary double post, as edits don't tag.

    @KuroganeHammer
    • The first hit of Yoshi Bomb should be marked as ground-only.
    • Star Bits should be 13-16f, 17-20f, 21-24f for active hitboxes. Your starting numbers for hits 2 and 3 have hitlag factored into them; they aren't projectiles, so Luma gets lagged by them too. (though the known hitlag formula suggests it should be 3 frames for 2.8% and your numbers suggest it's 2; maybe that formula's off slightly?)
    • Wario's ftilt and fsmash and Olimar's jabs and ftilt seem to have hand intangibility, despite it not being listed in MasterCore. It might just be that their hurtboxes don't adjust to the enlarged limbs, though.
    • Double Team (Lucario's counter) is invincible for the counter frame duration as well as for the active frames on the counterattack.
    • Super Dedede Jump has a few intangible frames at the beginning of the jump both grounded and airborne, and has super armor on the way up as well as on the drop. During the active frames, Dedede's feet are also intangible.
    • Minor; there is a random / on the "Jigglypuff's data has been added!" update.
    EDIT:
    And Rosalina's shorthop should be 51 frames, as she has 1 frame to act out of sh dair before landing.
     
    #41 Lavani, Nov 20, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
    KuroganeHammer likes this.
  2. GunGuts

    GunGuts
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2015
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    California
    Thank you Lavani. Got some more inquiries. Mario's and the Dr's fairs have a gap at frame 20. Is that a typo or does that mean there's no hitbox on that frame? Second, what does "Cannot rebound" mean?

    Edit: I'm assuming Cannot rebound is when an attack can't clank with another attack, correct? I know that Little Mac has this unique property.
     
    #42 GunGuts, Nov 20, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
  3. Lavani

    Lavani
    Expand Collapse
    Indigo Destiny

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    Messages:
    6,972
    For Mario's fair, the middle hitbox should still be active on frame 20, and for Doc the late hit should be.

    "Cannot rebound" means an attack can clank, but it isn't interrupted if it does. Let's say you're Little Mac, attacking a fireball thrown by Luigi.

    If you dash attack it, you'll clank the fireball and be stuck in a rebound animation for a bit before you're able to move again.
    If you jab it, you'll clank the fireball but won't rebound, continuing your jab and being able to act normally afterward.
    If you use a down-angled fsmash, the attacks don't interact with each other at all and Little Mac will be hit by the fireball.

    Which incidentally made me realize, @KuroganeHammer all of Mac's jabs and his dtilt should be marked as "Cannot rebound"
    Also are there plans to mark which moves are transcendent? I could probably list all of those out tonight or something.
     
    #43 Lavani, Nov 21, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
  4. KuroganeHammer

    KuroganeHammer
    Expand Collapse
    It's ya boy.

    • Premium
    • Brawl Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    15,786
    Location:
    Australia
    NNID:
    Aerodrome

    Hmm yes I think that would be useful at some point I'm sure.

    I'll poke a stick at this tonight maybe but I'm going to a Major next week so it might be when I get back.
     
  5. Aquasition

    Aquasition
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2014
    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    3DS FC:
    1091-8948-2851
    why am I getting a spam website when I try to access Kurogane Hammer? It was working before, what happened?
     
    #45 Aquasition, Nov 25, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
  6. Zapp Branniglenn

    Zapp Branniglenn
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Santa Ana, CA
    Could very well be malware. Be sure to run an antivirus scan and look around in your computer's installed programs for suspicious sounding software. Googling the name of any malware agents tends to result in yahoo answers and other message boards of people asking what it is.
     
  7. Aquasition

    Aquasition
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2014
    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    3DS FC:
    1091-8948-2851
    Ok, so I've jsut run my computer through an antivirus scan, and now when I try to enter Kurogane Hammer, I get ww9 instead of www.kuroganehammer.com. And no, forcing the 9 into a w isn't working. I don't know enough about viruses to know what kind of virus this is. What kind of virus could it be?

    Note that it's better than beforehand, because at least I just can't access kurogane hammer, instead of getting redirected.

    EDIT: It's a zeroredirect1. Ech. Any ideas for removing it? (note: I'm using a Mac 10.10)

    2ND EDIT: I can access Kurogane Hammer again, but I don't feel like I've removed it yet. Will keep a watch for if this happens again
     
    #47 Aquasition, Nov 25, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
  8. Masonomace

    Masonomace
    Expand Collapse
    Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,519
    Location:
    Independence, MO
    NNID:
    Masonomace
    I really dig the website now that everything is 1.1.2. My only feedback to give for now would be to add some missing Shield Damage modifiers seen in this pastebin, or updated from previous patches:

    Base Dmg. (+SD)
    :4bowser:Whirling Foretress (Aerial, Hit 1) | 10% (+3)


    :4falcon:
    Dash Attack | 10% (+1)
    Dash Attack (Late) | 6% (+1)
    Raptor Boost (Attack, Ground) | 9% (+4)
    Raptor Boost (Attack, Aerial) | 8% (+2)


    :4charizard:
    Dash Attack | 11% (+1)
    Dash Attack (Late) | 8% (+1)


    :4dk:
    Fsmash | 20% (+1)
    Fsmash | 19% (+1)
    Spinning Kong (Hit 1, Grounded) | 7% (+1)
    Spinning Kong (Hit 1, Aerial) | 10% (+1)
    Spinning Kong (Hits 2-5, Aerial) | 5%/5%/4%/4% (+1)
    Spinning Kong (Hits 6-8, Aerial) | 2% (+1)


    :4drmario:
    Dash Attack | 8.96% (+1)
    Dash Attack (Late) | 6.72% (+1)
    Super Sheet | 7.84% (+4)


    :4duckhunt:
    Dash Attack | 10% (+1)
    Dash Attack (Late) | 7% (+1)
    Dtilt | 8% (+1)


    :4falco:
    Dash Attack | 9% (+1)
    Dash Attack (Late) | 6% (+1)
    Fthrow (Hit 1) | 4% (+1)


    :4fox:
    Dash Attack | 6% (+1)
    Dash Attack (Late) | 4% (+1)
    Fthrow (Hit 1) | 4% (+1)
    Fire Fox (Hit 8) | 14% (+5)
    Fire Fox (Hit 8 Late) | 8% (+5)


    :4ganondorf:
    Dash Attack | 14% (+1)
    Dash Attack (Late) | 10% (+1)
    Utilt (Hitbox) | 28%/20%/18% (+20)
    Wizard's Foot (Aerial) | 15% (+15)
    Wizard's Foot (Aerial, Late) | 14% (+15)


    :4greninja:
    Dash Attack | 7% (+1)
    Substitute every direction grounded & aerial | (+5)


    :4myfriends:
    Ftilt (All Angles) | 12.5% (+1)
    Eruption | 9% (+1)
    Eruption (Fully charged) | 35%/28%/26% (+30)


    :4jigglypuff:
    Fthrow (Hit 1) | 5% (+1)
    Pound | 11% (+20)


    :4dedede:Super Dedede Jump (Landing) | 11% (+3)


    :4link:
    Fthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)
    Bthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)
    Dthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)


    :4littlemac:Fsmash (Angled Down) | 22% (+4)


    :4lucario:Aura Sphere (Full Charge) | 25% (+3)


    :4lucina:
    Dancing Blade 2 | 3.325% (+1)
    Dancing Blade 3 (Up) | 4.275% (+1)
    Dancing Blade 3 | 4.275% (+1)
    Dancing Blade 3 (Down) | 3.325% (+1)
    Dancing Blade 4 (Up) | 6.65% (+1)
    Dancing Blade 4 | 5.7% (+5)
    Dancing Blade 4 (Down, Hits 1-4) | 2% (+1)
    Dancing Blade 4 (Down, Hit 5) | 4.75% (+1)


    :4luigi:Fsmash (High, normal, & Low) | 15% (+5)


    :4mario:
    Dash Attack | 8% (+1)
    Dash Attack (Late) | 6% (+1)
    Cape | 7% (+4)


    :4marth:
    Dancing Blade 2 | 4% / 3% (+1)
    Dancing Blade 3 (Up) | 5% / 4% (+1)
    Dancing Blade 3 | 5% / 4% (+1)
    Dancing Blade 3 (Down) | 4% / 3% (+1)
    Dancing Blade 4 (Up) | 8% / 6% (+1)
    Dancing Blade 4 | 7% / 5% | (+5)
    Dancing Blade 4 (Down, Hits 1-4) | 2% (+1)
    Dancing Blade 4 (Down, Hit 5) | 4%/6%/4% (+1)


    :4megaman:Crash Bomber (Explosion) | 1% (+1)


    :4miigun:Fthrow (Hit 1) | 2% (+1)


    :4miisword:Blade Flurry (No Charge, Hit 5) | 0.5% (+1)


    :4pacman:Dash Attack (Hit 3) | 5% (+1)


    :4palutena:
    Dsmash (Windbox) | 0% (+1)
    Reflect Barrier | 5% (+1)


    :4peach:
    Usmash | 17%/15%/12%/12% (+4)
    Usmash (Late) | 10%/12% (+4)
    Toad everything | 2% (+1)
    Peach Bomber (Hitbox) | 10% (+6)


    :4pikachu:
    Fthrow (Hits 1-4) | 2% (+1)
    Uthrow (Hit 1) | 1% (+1)
    Dthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)
    Thunder Jolt everything | (+1)
    Thunder (Cloud) | 6% (+1)
    Thunder (Projectile) | 8% (+1)
    Thunder (Contact) | 15% (+2)


    :4olimar:
    Dash Attack (Hit 1) | 7% (+1)
    Dash Attack (Hit 2) | 4% (+1)


    :4samus:
    Charge Shot (Full Charge) | 25% (+3)
    Homing Missile | 5% (+1)
    Super Missile | 10% (+5)
    Screw Attack everything | (+3)
    Bomb | 4% (+6)
    Bomb (Explosion) | 5% (+6)


    :4sheik:
    Fthrow (Hit 1) | 5% (+1)
    Bthrow (Hit 1) | 5% (+1)
    Uthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)
    Dthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)


    :4shulk:
    Back Slash | 10%/9%/16%/14% (+7)
    Back Slash (Landing) | 10%/9%/15%/13% (+10)


    :4tlink:
    Fthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)
    Dthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)
    ═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
    Soo yeah. Throws having extra shield damage modifiers. .what even?? Then again, I've killed one of my team partners with Lucario's Uthrow up close which was hilarious.

    Also, I edited this post to suggest missing Ground-Targeted & Aerial-Targeted color codings for moves seen in this pastebin, or from previous patches. The coloring I did in the table below was optional. Otherwise, putting in a "(Grounded only)" under the Hitbox active column alone suffices as seen here.

    Questions: Should rows get added if an entry from the pastebin show that there's a ground-targeted or aerial-targeted only hitbox for it? Examples:
    Character & move Hitbox Active Base Dmg. Angle BKB / WBKB KBG
    1 :4dedede:*NEW ROW* Ftilt (Final Hit) 23 (Grounded only) 3 50 30 190
    2 :4rob:*NEW ROW* Dair (Late) 22-26 (Grounded only) 8 361 30 100

    In the pastebin, Charizard's Usmash (Hit 1) frame data says it's Grounded only, but the Charizard frame data on kuroganehammer.com has it as Aerial only. Either or, I'm bringing it up to figure out what's right or wrong.

    This is what is seen for ZSS' frame data on kuroganehammer.com:
    :4zss:
    Utilt (Hit 1) | 3-4 (Cannot Rebound, Legs Intangible: 3-10) | 5 | 130/150 | 55/85 | 30/50

    But the pastebin has it the opposite. 130 is ground-only, 150 is aerial-only, 55 is ground, 85 is aerial, 30 is ground, 50 is aerial. So either or, I just wanted to bring it up to figure out what's right or wrong.

    And finally, I know that you have phrases like "(Landing)" or "(Launcher)" that entail they're ground-only, but I wanted to add in "(Grounded only)" in the Hitbox Active column anyway, 'cus some people may not catch on to Launcher or Landing being strictly ground-targeted only.

    Disclaimer: My color codings might not be 100% correct <3.

    Character & Move Hitbox Active Base Dmg. Angle BKB/WBKB KBG
    1 :4bowserjr:
    2 Usmash 10-24 (Rehit rate: 4) 1.3 110/190/140 W: 12/17/50
    3
    4 :4falcon:
    5 Falcon Kick (Landing) 2-3 (Grounded only) 9 80 80 20
    6
    7 :4charizard:
    8 Usmash (Hit 1) 6 (Aerial? Grounded only?) 5 110 W: 100 100
    9
    10 :4drmario:
    11 Dair (Landing) 1-2 (Grounded only) 2.24 361 50 160
    12
    13 :4dedede:
    14 Dair 22-23 15/15/8 270/361/361 20 90/100/100
    15
    16 :4ganondorf:
    17 Wizard's Foot (Landing) 2-3 (Grounded only) 8 80 80 35
    18
    19 :4myfriends:
    20 Usmash (Late) 30-31 (Grounded only) 10 65 50 85
    21
    22 :4littlemac:
    23 Usmash (Grounded only) 10 (Super Armor: 8-11) 20 86 40 80
    24 KO Punch (Windbox) 4-5 0 10 100 100
    25
    26 :4lucina:
    27 Usmash (Launcher) 13-14 (Grounded only) 3 125 W: 155 100
    28
    29 :4marth:
    30 Usmash (Launcher) 13-14 (Grounded only) 3 125 W: 155 100
    31
    32 :4miibrawl:
    33 Dair 16 13 270/70 10/30 80/100
    34 Side 1: Onslaught (Attack, Ground) 4-17 (Rehit rate: 5) 1.2 95/366 W: 10 1000 typo?
    35 Side 1: Onslaught (Attack, Aerial) 4-17 (Rehit rate: 5) 1 95/366 W: 10 1000 typo?
    36 Side 3: Headache Maker 18-19 13/10/13 45/270/45 30 120/100/120
    37 Side 3: Headache Maker (Landing) 1-2 (Grounded only) 4 361 60 100
    38
    39 :4miigun:
    40 Usmash (Hit 1) 11-12 3 110/110/110/180 70/70/30/40 25
    41
    42 :4miisword:
    43 Neutral 1: Gale Strike (Windbox) 74- 0 86/20 80/55 100
    44 Up 2: Skyward Slash Dash (Hit 2-6) 29-30, 33-34, 37-38, 41-42, 45-46 1 366/55/366/45 30/50/30/80 30
    45 Down 3: Power Thrust (Air, Landing) 2-3 (Grounded only) 7 80 80 20
    46
    47 :4olimar:
    48 Utilt (Hit 6) 16 (Aerial only) 4 90 50 120
    49
    50 :4pacman:
    51 Dash Attack (Windbox) 3-9 (Grounded only) 0 361 W: 12 100
    52
    53 :4pikachu:
    54 Dair (Landing) 1-2 (Grounded only) 4 361 50 100
    55 Thunder Jolt (Arc, Early) 1-30 6/5 361 25/13 20
    56 Thunder Jolt (Arc) 31-60 5/4 361 25/13 20
    57 Thunder Jolt (Arc, Late) 61-81? 4/3 361 25/13 20
    58
    59 :4rob:
    60 Dair 20-21 12/11/11/6 80/280/45/361 10/20/30/10 100/110/100/100
    61
    62 :4samus:
    63 Screw Attack (Ground, Hits 2-4) 7-8, 9-10, 11-12 1 96 W: 178/178/140 100
    64 Screw Attack (Ground, Hits 5-10) 13-14, 15-16, 17-18, 19-20, 21-22, 23-24 1 110/110/100 W: 50/50/80 100
    65 Screw Attack (Air, 4-7) 11-12, 13-14, 15-16, 17-18 1 366/366/100 B: 25/25 W: 50 0/0/100
    66 Screw Attack (Air, 8-11) 19-20, 21-22, 23-24, 25-26 1 366/366/100 B: 25/25 W: 50 0/0/100
    67
    68 :4sheik:
    69 Uair 4-15 (Rehit rate: 4) 1 90/366 30 100
    70
    71 :4shulk:
    72 Dair (Hit 1) 14-15 5/7 172/160 W: 20 100
    73 Dair (Hit 2) 23-24 11/11/10 270/361/361 10/10/55 90/85/85
    74
    75 :4sonic:
    76 Utilt (Hit 1) 7 (Grounded only) 2 96 W: 100 100
    77 Dair 19-22 8 70/285 80/30 70/90
    78
    79 :4tlink:
    80 Usmash (Early) 11 13 100/96/96 43 94
    81 Dsmash (Hit 1) 9-10 7/6/6 70/170/168 40/W: 60/140 100
    82
    83 :4yoshi:
    84 Bair (Hits 1-2) 11, 17 2.5 361/366 50/30 150/200
    85 Yoshi Bomb (Hit 1) 7 (Grounded only) 4 80 W: 80 100
    86
    87 :4zelda:
    88 Nayru's Love 13-24 (Rehit rate: 4, Intangible: 5-12, Reflects: 5-43) 2/1 160 12 40
     
    #48 Masonomace, Nov 25, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2015
    TriTails and KuroganeHammer like this.
  9. TheReflexWonder

    TheReflexWonder
    Expand Collapse
    Wonderful!

    • Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,706
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    3DS FC:
    2492-4449-2771
    NNID:
    TheReflexWonder

    Just noting that SDI/hitlag multipliers would be really nice to see, instead of having to check Master Core or a pastebin on the stats of 1.04 moves.
     
    #49 TheReflexWonder, Dec 4, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
  10. KuroganeHammer

    KuroganeHammer
    Expand Collapse
    It's ya boy.

    • Premium
    • Brawl Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    15,786
    Location:
    Australia
    NNID:
    Aerodrome

    Hello.

    People might be wondering why the character subforum threads were removed; that was not my doing.

    I've had numerous complaints about it already so I just want to mention who did it and why.

    The people who deleted it were the admins of Smashboards and the reasoning is because Smashboards is a website the main concern for them is to make $ money $ from traffic. Despite the fact that kuroganehammer.com has no interactions for users (no forums, no ads, etc) they still see it as a threat of sorts to their traffic (and therefore cash flow). It's honestly silly for them to think the site is siphoning traffic but otherwise there's really no other reason they have to remove it.

    I know it's inconvenient but there's nothing I can do about it. So I can only suggest that you bookmark the site or something. Please direct all complaints to website staff or to Forum Support, not to me.

    Thanks xoxo
     
  11. Radical Larry

    Radical Larry
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,991
    Location:
    The Pocket Dimension
    3DS FC:
    1822-3761-9326
    NNID:
    Crimson-Vulcan
    @KuroganeHammer Is there a reason why Lucario's Base Damage is twice that it is in-game at Base? I could swear Lucario's Base Damage, since I've played him on Training for accurate results, is half of what it is on the site.

    Any reason to it?
     
  12. Ghostbone

    Ghostbone
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    • Wii U Backroomer
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    4,667
    Location:
    Australia
    Aura actually scales down at low %s.
    His base damage is his damage at neutral aura which is around 70% (a Lucario main would know better), at 0% he does half his base damage.

    That's just the way the aura formula works.
     
    #52 Ghostbone, Dec 4, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
    KuroganeHammer likes this.
  13. Radical Larry

    Radical Larry
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,991
    Location:
    The Pocket Dimension
    3DS FC:
    1822-3761-9326
    NNID:
    Crimson-Vulcan
    But it's horribly misleading to people who don't know the formula.

    I'd suggest some additional stats to put in there for people who may take this the wrong way; Zero-Base Damage, Aura Minimal Damage and Aura Maximum Damage would work wonders for Lucario since he is a unique character. But that's Kurogane's job, I suppose.
     
  14. Sinister Slush

    Sinister Slush
    Expand Collapse
    ❄ I miss my kind ❄

    • Wii U Backroomer
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    13,662
    Location:
    The land that never Snows
    NNID:
    SinisterSlush
    Man this generation sucks.
     
    YoHeKing likes this.
  15. Radical Larry

    Radical Larry
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,991
    Location:
    The Pocket Dimension
    3DS FC:
    1822-3761-9326
    NNID:
    Crimson-Vulcan
    Well you make it seem the last generation is stereotypically worse.

    You have to understand the fundamentals that go with a character having their damage stats. Characters in the site, except for Lucario, have their raw base damage taken accordingly to the characters per updates. It would seem reasonable for the site to do something more with Lucario by adding on the Zero Damage and Max Damage. There's always the probability that someone will try maining Lucario and see what his frame data is first before starting some practice with him; they may go in and expect him to do the base damage stated on the site, but then realize they're doing pretty much half of what the site had put up on there.

    So I'm just suggesting a three-way category for No Aura (Zero-Damage), Minimal Aura and Maximum Aura damage counters so people may not make these mistakes. I might be making a hypothesis, but in the long run, it'd help and make it easier for people to understand how much Lucario can change.
     
  16. KuroganeHammer

    KuroganeHammer
    Expand Collapse
    It's ya boy.

    • Premium
    • Brawl Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    15,786
    Location:
    Australia
    NNID:
    Aerodrome

    I think it'll be patch time soon, with that patch I'll go through and likely add Cloud's data ASAP and also fix any small errors that have been brought up here. I'll also see if I can add hitlag modifiers somewhere (though IDK where, maybe its own page or something).
     
  17. TriTails

    TriTails
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,718
    Location:
    Looking at your face
    @KuroganeHammer I have found out that Luigi's shorthop F-air + D-air autocancels. I have done this on opponents (Therefore experiencing hitlag, which made the timing easier) and without opponents as well (I had to be frame perfect tho).

    So according to your site, Luigi's SH time is 47 frames. But F-air's FAF combined with D-air's autocancels make up 24 + 24(Or 25?) = 48 or 49 frames.

    I know I've done this multiple times before, and an user in our board has also said it works for him. Maybe you can check? Because if Luigi only stays in the air for 47 frames in a shorthop then this wouldn't work.

    Note I had to be frame perfect. Flub even one frame and I think it will fail.
     
  18. Fox Is Openly Deceptive

    Fox Is Openly Deceptive
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Detective

    • Administrator
    • Wii U Backroomer
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,576
    Location:
    WinMelee, Australia
    Fair's first actionable frame is on frame 24, i.e. the first frame of Dair would happen on frame 24, then Dair's first autocancel frame is on frame 24, i.e. if you land on that frame it will autocancel, so it makes perfect sense that a SH buffered Fair to Dair would autocancel. If you were to work it out your way you'd want to say 23 + 23, so you actually have an extra frame to play with, i.e. if you didn't do Fair during the jump-squat frames or on frame 6 of the SH (the first airborne frame), and instead did the Fair on frame 7 and then buffered the Dair (10 frame window), you would still autocancel.
     
  19. TriTails

    TriTails
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,718
    Location:
    Looking at your face
    Ah. That makes sense. Thanks.

    But wait... F-air's end frame is on frame 23. Alright. But why 23 + 23? Shouldnt it be 23 + 24? Because D-air doesn't autocancel on frame 23, and autocancel frames start to count after we input the aerial right? So if D-air's first frame were to happen on frame 24, it would autocancel 'till frame 28, and start to autocancel again at frame 47. Am I calculating this correctly?
     
  20. Fox Is Openly Deceptive

    Fox Is Openly Deceptive
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Detective

    • Administrator
    • Wii U Backroomer
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,576
    Location:
    WinMelee, Australia
    I only said 23 + 23 because you were thinking along the lines of 'frames needed in the air', but it's not important. You can just ignore it and focus on the fact that SH Fair to Dair has a 1 frame leniency in order to autocancel. Whatever helps you understand.
     
    TriTails likes this.
  21. Zapp Branniglenn

    Zapp Branniglenn
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Santa Ana, CA
    @KuroganeHammer I've just confirmed all of Luigi's throws are weight based. What method did you use to track down which throws are weight-based initially? Was it something in the game's code, or did you check manually? Luigi's Dthrow being weight based would have been a huge detail that we wouldn't miss before. But it is now. And we don't have evidence of throws being changed to weight based via patches. Is there any chance at all you missed something and it's always been this way? If not, this is something we really need to look out for in the future.

    Oh, and more importantly, Luigi's Dthrow being weight dependent is great news for all heavyweights. 18 endlag on Jigglypuff, 26 on Bowser.
     
    #61 Zapp Branniglenn, Dec 15, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2015
  22. KuroganeHammer

    KuroganeHammer
    Expand Collapse
    It's ya boy.

    • Premium
    • Brawl Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    15,786
    Location:
    Australia
    NNID:
    Aerodrome

    I think I checked sixriver, or maybe I just ****ed up the template.
     
  23. Vipermoon

    Vipermoon
    Expand Collapse
    Aritia's Regent while Mars attends Smash Bros. 4

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,473
    Location:
    Aritia, Michigan
    NNID:
    Vipermoon64
    What are Roy's counter knockback values? It definitely isn't 90 base because it doesn't inflict tumble knockback at low percents.
     
  24. Zapp Branniglenn

    Zapp Branniglenn
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Santa Ana, CA
    Went through the cast. The following normal throws are in fact weight dependent:

    Luigi's Dthrow and Uthrow
    All four of Yoshi's throws
    Diddy Kong's Fthrow and Bthrow

    Also, the following weight dependent throws are not:
    Bowser Jr's Dthrow
    Diddy Kong's Uthrow and Dthrow

    I can confirm everything else on your site as of 1.12. Looks like simple mistakes. With next patch coming soon, I'm not going to overlook the possibility of throws being made to be weight based, but I don't think this proves that that has ever happened in prior patches.
     
  25. Vipermoon

    Vipermoon
    Expand Collapse
    Aritia's Regent while Mars attends Smash Bros. 4

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,473
    Location:
    Aritia, Michigan
    NNID:
    Vipermoon64
    Wow no wonder original hoo haa was so good
     
  26. KuroganeHammer

    KuroganeHammer
    Expand Collapse
    It's ya boy.

    • Premium
    • Brawl Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    15,786
    Location:
    Australia
    NNID:
    Aerodrome

    Jrs dthrow is, that's why it does more damage to bowser than it does to jiggs
     
  27. Zapp Branniglenn

    Zapp Branniglenn
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Santa Ana, CA
    That...would be a pretty cool mechanic for weight based throws. In any case, it's 7% damage for both targets.
     
  28. KuroganeHammer

    KuroganeHammer
    Expand Collapse
    It's ya boy.

    • Premium
    • Brawl Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    15,786
    Location:
    Australia
    NNID:
    Aerodrome

    How many hits?
     
  29. Zapp Branniglenn

    Zapp Branniglenn
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Santa Ana, CA
    7 multihits, one finisher. 8 total for both characters.
     
  30. KuroganeHammer

    KuroganeHammer
    Expand Collapse
    It's ya boy.

    • Premium
    • Brawl Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    15,786
    Location:
    Australia
    NNID:
    Aerodrome

    Then it's been changed from weight dependent to non-weight dependent. Because in previous patches it was weight dependent.
     
  31. Zapp Branniglenn

    Zapp Branniglenn
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Santa Ana, CA
    You're sure this mechanic existed on the move? Heavy targets were hit more for additional damage? I've heard of nothing like that for any throw. What I do know is that the move was changed in 1.04. Used to hit 10 times total. Perhaps this is what you remember?
     
  32. KuroganeHammer

    KuroganeHammer
    Expand Collapse
    It's ya boy.

    • Premium
    • Brawl Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    15,786
    Location:
    Australia
    NNID:
    Aerodrome

  33. Kofu

    Kofu
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,560
    Location:
    The caffeine-free state
    3DS FC:
    1521-4492-7542
    NNID:
    Atoyont
    What makes a throw different when it's weight-dependent versus not?
     
  34. Paper Maribro

    Paper Maribro
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2014
    Messages:
    593
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    The whole animation takes longer. The most noticeable thing it affects is the first actionable frame from the throw. For example down throw Bowser and Jigglypuff as Falcon. If you try and immediately dash out of the throw, you can feel it is much slower when throwing Bowser than Jigglypuff hence why buffered down throw > knee is a true combo on particularly light characters. If you did the same thing with Diddy's down throw you'll notice it's identical between characters when you can act out of the throw.
     
  35. Kofu

    Kofu
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,560
    Location:
    The caffeine-free state
    3DS FC:
    1521-4492-7542
    NNID:
    Atoyont
    So it's an animation issue, not knockback. That makes a lot more sense, thanks.
     
  36. epicnights

    epicnights
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2015
    Messages:
    148
    Location:
    Boynton Beach, FL
    NNID:
    epicnights
    A lot of the character pages have "?" for the FH and SH air times. will these ever get added?
     
    Thinkaman likes this.
  37. KuroganeHammer

    KuroganeHammer
    Expand Collapse
    It's ya boy.

    • Premium
    • Brawl Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    15,786
    Location:
    Australia
    NNID:
    Aerodrome

    I've added all of them.
     
    Vipermoon likes this.
  38. Runic_SSB

    Runic_SSB
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2010
    Messages:
    249
    Location:
    Princeton, NJ
    NNID:
    Runic_SSB
    Is Lucas always going to be Ridley?
     
  39. KuroganeHammer

    KuroganeHammer
    Expand Collapse
    It's ya boy.

    • Premium
    • Brawl Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    15,786
    Location:
    Australia
    NNID:
    Aerodrome

    probably
     
  40. nannerham

    nannerham
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    99
    Location:
    in your kitchen
    NNID:
    nannerham
    I believe lucario's run speed needs to be updated, he now runs at the exact same speed as game and watch (1.5264)
     

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)

We know you don't like ads
Why not buy Premium?