COMPLETE Frame Data Directory

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,133
Location
Albuquerque, NM
#1
None of this is my work, it is merely a compilation of others' work done by me, so you don't have to ;)



A HUGE note to all- all sets of frame data are incomplete, aside from the Ike boards.

For those of you who maintain/are working on your character boards' frame data threads, I would suggest using the Ike frame data threads as a sort of template to base your own research on.



Character Specific Frame Data-

:bowser2: Bowser: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206219

:falcon: Captain Falcon: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=216778

:diddy: Diddy Kong: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239185

:dk2: Donkey Kong: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202958

:falco: Falco: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187546

:fox: Fox: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240800

:gw: Game & Watch: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=189251

:ganondorf: Ganondorf: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5216073&postcount=2

:popo: Ice Climbers: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=232593

:ike: Ike: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202837

:jigglypuff: Jigglypuff: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=216922

:dedede: King Dedede: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=224054

:kirby: Kirby: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=144039

:link2: Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=228233

:lucario: Lucario: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211488

:lucas: Lucas: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255033

:luigi2: Luigi: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175652

:mario2: Mario: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=219407

:marth: Marth: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204825

:metaknight: Metaknight: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205614

:ness2: Ness: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207559

:olimar: Olimar: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225377

:peach: Peach: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246380

:pikachu2: Pikachu: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=223901

:pit: Pit: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=268872

:pt: Pokemon Trainer: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=224610

:rob: ROB: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255281

:samus2: Samus: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185822

:shiek: Sheik: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=248288

:snake: Snake: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258332

:sonic: Sonic: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233106

:toonlink: Toon Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193918

:wario: Wario: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210128

:wolf: Wolf: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=194120

:yoshi2: Yoshi: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=249046

:zelda: Zelda: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218082

:zerosuitsamus: Zero Suit Samus: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=238787



Misc. Frame Data-


•Jump Squat Frame Data: this is how many frames it takes for a jump oos to actually occur for *insert character*

Also, oos upB and oos usmash are NOT effected by jump-squat, only aerials, usmash and upB both cancel the jump-squat animation, explaining why they are so fast oos as compared to aerials :) Good stuff RocketPSIence :D


Alright guys, I went into BrawlBox and got how long each animation took. Here is my findings:
JumpSquat Frame Data:

captain - 6
dedede - 5
diddy - 5
donkey - 7
falco - 5
fox - 5
gamewatch - 6
ganon - 6
ike - 8
kirby - 5
koopa - 9
link - 8
lucario - 6
lucas - 6
luigi - 6
mario - 6
marth - 6
metaknight - 5
ness - 6
peach - 6
pikachu - 5
pikmin - 6
pit - 6
pokefushigisou - 6
pokelizardon - 8
pokezenigame - 5
popo - 5
purin - 6
robot - 6
samus - 5
sheik - 5
snake - 10
sonic - 8
szerosuit - 5
toonlink - 8
wario - 7
wolf - 7
yoshi - 7
zelda - 7

Remember this is the length of the animation, so when you are calculating the first actionable frame, you have to add one.

Rolls, spotdodges, and airdodges

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225510&highlight=frame



Ledge grab invincibility/some general info about ledge-dropping

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8257705&postcount=56



That's it for the misc. section, but item specific frame data would be amazing, such as glide toss frame data and oos item throw frame data.

Another thing that would be great is shield drop/power shield frame data. Is it the same for all characters, or is it unique to some?



New request added to the list-

Every single character's ledge frame data.

I'm thinking that if someone is thinking about doing this on their own, they could work from the top of the tier list down, as the tier list does dictate which characters need to be more or less known about ;P



Frame data people- any threads I should read in order for me to test for frame data on my own?
 

Alfa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
197
Location
Victoria, Australia
#2
The peach boards have frame data for their turnip tosses, I'd imagine it would be the same for all items.

Turnips

Ground Throws
Forward Throw
Duration: 26
Hits on Frame: 8

Back Throw:
Duration: 26
Hits on Frame: 11

Up throw
Duration: 25
Hits on Frame: 11

Down Throw:
Duration: 21
(the hitbox never has the chance to come out with this one)

Aerial Throws
Forward Throw
Duration: 24
Hits on Frame: 8

Back Throw
Duration: 24
Hits on Frame: 11

Up Throw
Duration: 23
Hits on Frame: 12

Down Throw
Duration: 19
Hits on Frame: 7
Good job on the thread by the way.
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,133
Location
Albuquerque, NM
#4
Ya I was questioning whether the Sonic boards actually had frame data or not, there was a bit of stuff regarding frame data that just seemed to not yet have been looked up, so I figured they were just behind lol ><

fixed
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,133
Location
Albuquerque, NM
#7
Thanks!

And ya the only reason I even wanted to bother making this thread was because a lot of the character frame data collections are a bit incomplete, and are slightly difficult to find lol ~.~
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
7,062
Location
Belleville, Ontario
3DS FC
3668-7651-8940
NNID
TheNiddo
#8
lol, I don't think the Ike boards can add any more frame data except very situational things like frames for throwing items. Maybe DACIT frames as well. That's about it.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,477
Location
Kansas City, MO
#9
I don't have exact numbers, but I'm pretty sure all values related to basic shielding are identical for all characters except Yoshi who takes longer for everything.
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
664
#10
I never understood frame data in Brawl your always positive on block so frame data doesn't really matter unless if it comes to with certain characters jab cancels anybody willing to explain why you'd need it? I know why in 3D fighters such as SCIV but not this
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,133
Location
Albuquerque, NM
#11
Frame data is like saying "how long does it take my dsmash to come out, and how long is it active?"

It helps GREATLY for timing, and to learn what you can do in certain scenarios.

Like, I'm not understanding how you DON'T get how important it is, considering you apparently play 3Ds...
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
664
#12
No, I know what frame data is and how important it is in 3D's what I said though is I dont understand its use in brawl
Frame data on 3D's It's how you know when to do a certain move or block or if they do a certain move to punish or block and start your combos I just dont understand its use on brawl since your always positive on block.
 
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
3,114
Location
Colorado
#14
This thread is stupid and Dekar is stupid rage grr you have 100o posts now good cool thread

I really like the idea of this. If someone doesn't get the significance of frame data, the most pure form of videogaming knowledge, I don't know how you can teach them...

K...so pretty much I block MK's Dsmash with Tink. The **** do I do now? I go for the grab and it's spot-dodged. I rage quit and complain about brawl not being melee.
Now let's say I looked at frame data first. I would see that yes, Tink can shield-grab the Down Smash, but you have to be very fast, whereas I could nair out of shield much easier. I punish with Nair only to get Dair gimped off-stage. I complain about something different.

Yeah you could get the feeling for timing without it, but it is essential to confirm what does and does not work.
 

Pierce7d

Wise Hermit
Premium
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
6,291
Location
Teaneck, North Bergen County, NJ, USA
3DS FC
1993-9028-0439
#15
Useful.

Uh, I believe different characters have different frame data for handling items. If they haven't been collected, can someone get item toss data (check different directions, and different powers of throws).

Also, if it hasn't been collected, please get different characters rising option frame data, especially rising attack advantage on block.
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
664
#16
Nevermind I dont know how many times I can say I understand frame data but it just seems useless to know in brawl if they are semi negative grab if they are really negative do a good ko smash move if your marth side b
 

Pierce7d

Wise Hermit
Premium
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
6,291
Location
Teaneck, North Bergen County, NJ, USA
3DS FC
1993-9028-0439
#18
Nevermind I dont know how many times I can say I understand frame data but it just seems useless to know in brawl if they are semi negative grab if they are really negative do a good ko smash move if your marth side b
Fail logic is fail. The number of times players don't realize they can punish with Usmash OOS is depressing.
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,133
Location
Albuquerque, NM
#19
Nevermind I dont know how many times I can say I understand frame data but it just seems useless to know in brawl if they are semi negative grab if they are really negative do a good ko smash move if your marth side b
This is why frame data is important.



I'll go into a little depth.



What if MK just falling dair'd my shield? (not very likely against a smart opponent, but let's just assume he messed up or something XD) Well, looking at his dair's frame data I will deduce that-

he has 15 frames of landing lag, and 2 frames of shield stun.

This means that I have exactly 13 frames to punish, and if I shield drop, I have 6 frames to punish (since shield dropping is apparently 7 frames with all chars except Yoshi).

What are my moves that have a hitbox out on (at the latest) frame 6?
jab
forward B
utilt
dsmash
nair*
fair*
uair*
dair*
Dolphin Slash (upB)*
grab*

That's a lot of options! Now, I've got a star next to a lot of those, why?

Well, the thing is that you can actually jump/grab out of shield in order to avoid the shield-drop lag, but since the Marth boards don't have that info, I don't even know how much faster it is to do so! :[
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,422
#21
This is why frame data is important.



I'll go into a little depth.



What if MK just falling dair'd my shield? (not very likely against a smart opponent, but let's just assume he messed up or something XD) Well, looking at his dair's frame data I will deduce that-

he has 15 frames of landing lag, and 2 frames of shield stun.

This means that I have exactly 13 frames to punish, and if I shield drop, I have 6 frames to punish (since shield dropping is apparently 7 frames with all chars except Yoshi).

What are my moves that have a hitbox out on (at the latest) frame 6?
jab
forward B
utilt
dsmash
nair*
fair*
uair*
dair*
Dolphin Slash (upB)*
grab*

That's a lot of options! Now, I've got a star next to a lot of those, why?

Well, the thing is that you can actually jump/grab out of shield in order to avoid the shield-drop lag, but since the Marth boards don't have that info, I don't even know how much faster it is to do so! :[
Jump squat is six frames IIRC after that any aerial will start to activate after buffering.
upB can be done frame 1 OoS b/c jumpsquat can be canceled into a U-smash or Up-B ASAP.
Grab just totally voids sheild drop and is exactly how many frames OoS as would it w/o sheilding.
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,133
Location
Albuquerque, NM
#22
@PSIence- are you certain about "jump squat" being 6 frames? I'm looking at Ike's jump frame data and it says he is airborne on frame 8 when a regular jump is inputted, not sure if that carries on to oos options but from just thinking about it it SHOULD (but might not, who knows? ;P)

Also, from what you're saying, "jumpsquat" is all you're doing when you JC a shield into upB, so if for instance I were Marth, my upB oos would take 11 frames total in order to have its first hitbox, right?
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,422
#23
I double checked it with hacking tools and it is six frames. After the six frames an aerials will come out. So aerials will be basically the same OoS b/c it also has seven frames before the attacks start.

Actually Jumpsquat is canceled when you Up-B and Up-Smash, meaning you don't go through the entire animation. That said, Marth's Up-B OoS is exactly 5 frames if you cancel "jumpsquat" perfectly.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,422
#28
Well with buffering you have ten frames to input an action during the ending of a move which can be transfered into a landing or whatever next short animation you go through.

I'm not sure why you totally need buffering info, it's pretty universal and has been well understood for a long time.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,875
Location
Houston,Tx
NNID
Xyro77
#29
now that new techniques have appeared, can some one check the samus frame data? Maybe PM me the correct data(if its wrong)
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
Senator
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
7,238
Location
Land's End (NorCal)
#32
Stuff like invincibility/IASA/attack(shieldstun etc included)/duration for releasing from the ledge, grabbing the edge, jumping, rolling, regular getup, and attack above/below 100%.

Mainly to see how I can best punish each character on the ledge.

:059:
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,539
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
#33
****, where did the Ganon frame data go?

And btw, you can punish ledge getup attacks with virtually anything out of shield in general. For example G&W's Smashes.
 

Alfa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
197
Location
Victoria, Australia
#34
Stuff like invincibility/IASA/attack(shieldstun etc included)/duration for releasing from the ledge, grabbing the edge, jumping, rolling, regular getup, and attack above/below 100%.

Mainly to see how I can best punish each character on the ledge.

:059:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244019&page=4

(around the end of the page)

I have some ledge frames for Pikachu. Right when he grabs the ledge he has 34 frames of invincibility and can let go on frame 14. I don't know if it's the same for every character, but I hope that helps.

Edit: Okay, I just tested this with every character and coincidentally Pikachu has the least ledge grab lag and everyone else has the same. Tethers also have less ledge grab lag. These are all just normal ledge grabs. I did not test with up b, but it doesn't seem to make a difference.

Pikachu
Invincibility Frames - 34
Ledge Grab Lag Frames - 12
Ledge Drop Frame - 14

Everyone else
Invincibility Frames - 46
Ledge Grab Lag Frames - 24
Ledge Drop Frame - 26

Tethers
Invincibility Frames - 23
Ledge Grab Lag Frames - 1
Ledge Drop Frame - 3

Extra Info
-You can only re-grab the ledge after 30 frames from letting go. For tethers it's like 1 frame.
-You cannot buffer a ledge drop. So you have to be frame perfect on the ledge drop if you want to take advantage of every invincibility frame.
-Invincibility frames start as soon as the character does their ledge reach animation. For tether users, they start when their tether is fully retracted.
-The maximum amount of invincibility frames on ledge drop is 21 frames for everyone.
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,133
Location
Albuquerque, NM
#39
Lol.

If you go back to the "Tactical Discussion" section and look at the bottom right portion of your window, you'll see a bunch of red names. Those are the mods who have control over the Tactical Discussion boards :D

Anyway, stickied, woot.



I'd like to know, what other frame data would be beneficial, aside from the links/requests listed in OP ?
 
Top