Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Idon]

My personal hatred of Steve is completely independent of how many top players random Steve Mains can beat with them not knowing how to fight back at all.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Wouldn't deny that they're are a lot of Steve mains upsetting top players left and right, but I think part of it is that people don't know the matchup. He might be top tier, but I don't think he's on the same level as Aegis or Min Min.

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

Wouldn't deny that they're are a lot of Steve mains upsetting top players left and right, but I think part of it is that people don't know the matchup. He might be top tier, but I don't think he's on the same level as Aegis or Min Min.

This. Very little people are exceptionally versed in the Steve MU, so top players kinda have to figure it out during the set. I will say that Sephiroth is insane against Steve. Long range to stop mining while keeping away from his boxing tools, counter destroys minecart, and he is one of the few characters that can consistently edgeguard him. Steve is also slow and light, 2 qualities that Sephiroth excels at fighting. This is without wing as well. When he gets wing, then all hell really breaks out, and Steve just explodes in 2-3 hits.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It should also be noted that Steve mains claim to have discovered a lot of tech that they kept hidden so that patches wouldn't affect them which can also explain why Steve would shoot up in rankings

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

BTW, new OrionStats update. Not too much happened this weekend though as the EPI 2 wasn't countered due to its staggered release.

Penultimate OrionStats character update for 2021 - next week things conclude with the SWT! Not much this week, a calm before the storm, though Bayonetta has moved into the Top 30 under the influence of her very active playerbase. pic.twitter.com/MC1LB1mdwl

— Barnard's Loop (@LoopBarnard) December 13, 2021

 

[The_Bookworm]

I mean it is not even a lot of players getting upsetted by Steve. Players like Jake, yonni, and DDee (aka the big three of Steve) are already highly established players, and I don't remember any "random Steve upset" in a long time outside of today.
(Also, shoutouts to the fact that yonni finally got a big-time sponsor, recently getting signed by Armada.)

Steve is one of those characters where matchup experience completely changes the dynamic of the matchup.
Tweek has very little (to no) matchup experience against Steve, and he is known for kinda panicking in those kind of situations. We kinda saw that back at Smash World Tour when he was kinda franticly looking for a solution vs Olimar.

Either way, this happened at a pretty low stakes event, so I don't think this whole thing is worth getting fired up over.

Plus, DDog played very well. He is not really a "random Steve player" (he dual-mains him with Mario btw), as while he is relatively new to the scene (first tournament recorded by SmashWiki for him is late June 2021), he has done well in his region so far.

This. Very little people are exceptionally versed in the Steve MU, so top players kinda have to figure it out during the set. I will say that Sephiroth is insane against Steve. Long range to stop mining while keeping away from his boxing tools, counter destroys minecart, and he is one of the few characters that can consistently edgeguard him. Steve is also slow and light, 2 qualities that Sephiroth excels at fighting. This is without wing as well. When he gets wing, then all hell really breaks out, and Steve just explodes in 2-3 hits.

Steve vs Sephiroth is definitely winning for Sephiroth, so the fact that DDog won despite this is very impressive for him.

It should also be noted that Steve mains claim to have discovered a lot of tech that they kept hidden so that patches wouldn't affect them which can also explain why Steve would shoot up in rankings

Well that means nothing if they don't ever use that tech.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I mean it is not even a lot of players getting upsetted by Steve. Players like Jake, yonni, and DDee (aka the big three of Steve) are already highly established players, and I don't remember any "random Steve upset" in a long time outside of today.

RockMan beating MkLeo's Marth happened like a week before Mainstage. RockMan then got in the Grand Finals, only to lose to MkLeo's Wolf. So it sort of happened a while ago, but because Marth is a pretty bad character in this game.

 

[Nobie]

The Steves tipped their hands too soon. The 13.0.1 announcement said they might make exceptions for bug fixes, and they've definitely considered infinites and such bugs before.

 

[Arthur97]

I do hope if they were really hiding infiinites they get emergency patched.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Guess we will not be seeing Light at the SWT.

I took an at home covid test and it came out as positive, I haven't been feeling well these last couple of days and I'm going to be taking a scheduled test tomorrow. Unfortunately I can't attend the SWT. I'm actually extremely depressed about missing the event😔

— 💧Light💧 (@Light_S21) December 14, 2021

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Man...WaDi revealed he also tested positive for COVID-19 earlier today.


. Depending on how fast this new Omicron variant spreads it may not bode for well upcoming major events

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

WaDi revealed ge also tested positive for COVID-19 earlier today. Man......


. Depending on how fast this new Omicron variant spreads bode for well upcoming major events

You mean it doesn't bode well for upcoming events? Because it sounds like you're saying it would bode well which is counter-intuitive.

 

[Idon]

Guess we will not be seeing Light at the SWT.

I took an at home covid test and it came out as positive, I haven't been feeling well these last couple of days and I'm going to be taking a scheduled test tomorrow. Unfortunately I can't attend the SWT. I'm actually extremely depressed about missing the event😔

— 💧Light💧 (@Light_S21) December 14, 2021

Damn, a lot of top players have been getting covid recently.
Hope it turns out well for them.

RockMan beating MkLeo's Marth happened like a week before Mainstage. RockMan then got in the Grand Finals, only to lose to MkLeo's Wolf. So it sort of happened a while ago, but because Marth is a pretty bad character in this game.

Marth? Bad?
But Zackray put him in A+ tier!

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Results for Under the Line: Resort Valley.

1. Maister
2. Glutonny
3. Chag
4. Skyjay
5. Cloudy
5. Law
7. Nair^
7. Javi

 

[StrangeKitten]

Skyjay getting fourth is pretty huge! I'm gonna indulge with a gif:

Spoiler: INCINEROAR WINS!

 

[Gleam]

Zackrary's list is weird, on one hand you see placements that clearly feel off. Like, there is substantial evidence to give support that or isn't a bottom 4 character anymore. But when you're lowest ranking is a B, where as others would have C, D or perhaps lower.

Do you get angry because he's got character's distinctively higher/lower than what they've been showing across the board. Or do you show respect because according to his list, even the worst character is passable, if not arguably decent. Perhaps it's just my own ideology but when I think of the lettered rankings, I think of them as such.

S-The Best
A-Top
B-High
C-Mid
D-Low
E-Bottom

And you know some might go

S-Top
A-High
B-Mid
C-Low
D-Bottom

It's like, I disagree with many of the relative placements on the list, but unless "B" is the equivalent of trash to Zackray, he clearly has more confidence in the perspective of these characters than most would.

 

[SKX31]

SWT Groups have been drawn and announced:

80 players.
17 countries.
$150,000+ on the line.

We're excited to reveal the Groups for the SWT Championship Brackets!

First up: Ultimate's Groups!#SWTC pic.twitter.com/eR4EtBaTCl

— Smash World Tour 2022 (@SmashWorldTour) December 16, 2021

A: Leo should take 1st - that said Peli and Myran could give him some trouble. They in turn should be favored for the 2 LB spots unless a particularily difficult opponent emerges from LCQ. Jdizzle is an underdog here, but could surprise Peli & Myran especially since YL does at least do decently vs. Sonic / Olimar IIRC.

B: Sparg0 should be favored of course to take 1st, but although this group looks rather straightforward it does not look like a complete cakwalk for him. Scend and Lea look poised to contend for 2nd and 3rd. Tomberry has not been doing all that well these last couple months (65th at Temple and VCA) but could pull off a nasty surprise (he did take a game off Gluto in the regional).

C: Proto should take 1st, although MVD and Wrath are not easy opposition in the slightest. The latter two are probably going to contest 2nd / 3rd. XIFL is like Jdizzle a massive underdog; but XIFL did take a game off of Leo two years ago and placed 17th at a recent regional. So I don't want to write him off at all - I'm speaking as someone who grew up watching a lot of sudden surprises in sports.

D: Kola and Shuton are likely going to battle for 1st and it might be uncomfortably close between them. Moxi and Sintro are going to have it tough, especially if someone like ESAM, Chag or Marss gets seeded into this group. Still though, I don't want to entirely count those two out, the former got 17th at Mainstage and the latter 13th at VCA.

E: Maister looks poised to grab 1st, although Riddles could give him a run for the money. Tarik and Br1 AV are practically wildcards here - the former's not entirely captured his old form (17th at Temple and VCA) but could still look to catch Maister / Riddles off guard, while Br1 AV did place 33rd at CEO.

F: Gluto and KEN fighting for one WB slot... I'm giving the edge to Gluto, although KEN is not going be easy. BassMage and Capitancito are complete wildcards here partly since they play seldom-seen characters. BassMage did place 9th at Port Priority and 33rd at Mainstage, and although Capitancito does not have as many tourneys on record this makes him more difficult to scout too. Could still realistically snag 3rd depending on LCQ.

G: Dabuz and Sonix are probably going to battle for first, although this is the most difficult matchup to straight-up call. SKITTLES!! and Alice are wildcards here but could certainly surprise the first two and could realistically snag either 2nd or 3rd. Again, a lot is going to come down to which LCQ player winds up here.

H: Tweek should be favored here, although the other three players are wildcards here. Sisqui might surprise a lot of people and could realistically take 2nd - guy's quickly become one of Europe's best through consistency. Cloudy is another realistic choice for 2nd, although he's not been as active so it's difficult to say. Kiyarash is a major wildcard here - although his Mainstage performance wasn't the best (97th) I don't wanna count him out either because he did get some very close sets during the regional. Much depends on which LCQ player gets slotted here.

 

[Hippieslayer]

F: Gluto and KEN fighting for one WB slot... I'm giving the edge to Gluto, although KEN is not going be easy. BassMage and Capitancito are complete wildcards here partly since they play seldom-seen characters. BassMage did place 9th at Port Priority and 33rd at Mainstage, and although Capitancito does not have as many tourneys on record this makes him more difficult to scout too. Could still realistically snag 3rd depending on LCQ.

I'd also give the edge to Gluto. He might lose to Ken, but Ken might get upset by Capitancito, mii gunner has some tools vs Sonic and Capitancito is no stranger to the matchup afaik, he has beaten other Sonic players albeit no one on Kens level I think. I think Gluto and Ken should both beat Bassmage, but I dunno, Bassmage is volatile. The gunner/jiggly matchup should also be pretty volatile. Jiggly is not easy to zone out as gunner but jiggly also dies early to gunners anti-airs.

Will be interesting to see if Gluttonys Mexican training arch will pay off.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

First notable upset in SWT. Moxi 3-2 Kola. .

Wolf seems to do very well vs swordies on general. I wonder what makes him so effective

 

[blackghost]

First notable upset in SWT. Moxi 3-2 Kola. .

Wolf seems to do very well vs swordies on general. I wonder what makes him so effective

because his claws functionally are a sword.

 

[Idon]

because his claws functionally are a sword.

This. Claws might on average be better than swords tbh.

The best "arcing sword swing forward air" probably belongs to Bowser or Wolf of all characters.

Oh, also I didn't watch, but I imagine the blaster probably helped?

 

[Rizen]

First notable upset in SWT. Moxi 3-2 Kola. .

Wolf seems to do very well vs swordies on general. I wonder what makes him so effective

I picked up specifically to deal with swordies, which YL hates. He has several factors that give him good MUs vs that archetype. Blaster is trascendent and great at keeping opponents at mid range even if they try to attack. Wolf has the 6th best air speed which gives him a good escape from juggles and advantage state. DA is a long lasting hitbox and crosses up shields making it hard to punish. Wolf's midrange game in general is one of the best in the game; he has so many good burst options with little risk including DA, grab as a mix up and SH Fair or Bair and blaster on top of that. His kill power is very good. Wolf's FTilt, B/F/Uairs all have sword like range on them and his advantage state is amazing. In general Wolf is just a top tier character with top tier options. He does have to worry about getting gimped as his recovery's linear and somewhat short.

 

[Game7a1]

Some more upsets at SWT.
SKITTLES 3-2 Sonix
alice 3-0 Sonix
BassMage 3-2 Glutonny

 

[The_Bookworm]

Here are the set results so far. All attention is now on the LCQ.


Pool 1
MkLeo 3-1 Myran
MkLeo 3-0 Jdizzle
Myran 3-0 Peli
Jdizzle 3-1 Peli


Pool 2
Sparg0 3-2 Lea
Sparg0 3-0 Tomberry
Scend 3-1 Lea
Scend 3-0 Tomberry


Pool 3
Tweek 3-0 Kiyarash
Tweek 3-1 Cloudy
sisqui 3-1 Cloudy
sisqui 2-3 Kiyarash


Pool 4
ProtoBanham 3-0 Wrath
ProtoBanham 3-0 XIFL
MVD 2-3 Wrath
MVD 3-0 XIFL


Pool 5
Shuton 3-0 moxi
Shuton 3-0 Sintro
Kola 3-0 Sintro
Kola 2-3 moxi


Pool 6
Riddles 3-1 Tarik
Riddles 3-1 Br1 AV
Maister 3-1 Br1 AV
Maister 3-1 Tarik


Pool 7
KEN 3-0 BassMage
KEN 3-1 Capitancito
Glutonny 3-0 Capitancito
Glutonny 2-3 BassMage


Pool 8
Dabuz 3-0 Alice
Dabuz 3-1 SKITTLES!!
SKITTLES!! 3-2 Sonix
Alice 3-0 Sonix

 

[NotLiquid]

Skyjay and Mystery Sol feel like they've been hard at work rewriting the public perception of Incineroar these last few months. What a genuinely fun, slept on character.

 

[ARISTOS]

Skyjay and Mystery Sol feel like they've been hard at work rewriting the public perception of Incineroar these last few months. What a genuinely fun, slept on character.

Every time someone says Incineroar is underrated, Thinkaman gets a little stronger

Spoiler

Incineroar is dope though, glad to see it happen. Such a good design

 

[The_Bookworm]

Welp. Marss hit the brakes hard on the hype train, and pretty much destroyed Skyjay to secure a spot at the championships.
We have seen Skyjay power through tough matchups off of how amazing of a player he is, but the ZSS matchup looked exceptionally rough.

Still, a pretty good run by him. Mystery Sol didn't fare very well this event, but this event is still a nice showcase of Incineroar regardless.


Edit: Our 8 qualifiers from the LCQ have been decided.
Zomba
Tilde
Chag
Kobe
Marss
Cosmos
MuteAce
Anathema

 

[Cheryl~]

Another huge upset in Pool 7.

Tilde 3-0 Glutonny

It was... extremely dominant by Tilde. Gluto's on the verge of not even making it out of his pool if BassMage continues winning sets.

 

[PK Gaming]

Oh jeez. jigglypuff is a real meta threat now

All those buffs actually mattered

 

[The_Bookworm]

Oh jeez. jigglypuff is a real meta threat now

All those buffs actually mattered

It is more that BassMage is an amazing player. Not many people have good Puff matchup exp, and high level Jigglypuff representation is borderline non-existent outside of him.

Congrats to him moving on in bracket, and Glutonny's victory over KEN means that Glutto moves on the bracket after an otherwise rough weekend so far.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

So Zomba got 1st place his bracket over Maister and Riddles for having the best W/L game ratio depsite all three going 3 wins and 1 loss overall.

With Anathema also getting 2nd in his bracket and also advancing, it has been a pretty good day for the LCQ ROB's

 

[The_Bookworm]

Here is our sets for later today.


Winner's
MkLeo vs Dabuz
ProtoBanham vs Kola
Sparg0 vs KEN
Cosmos vs Zomba


Loser's
Maister vs Myran
Tweek vs Sonix
BassMage vs MuteAce
Scend vs moxi
Shuton vs Marss
MVD vs Glutonny
SKITTLES!! vs sisqui
Anathema vs Riddles


Cosmos is actually playing phenomenally today.
For those who are wondering, Cosmos spent an entire week playing solo Pyra in order to get better with her, as it was definitely lacking in comparison to his Mythra. All that practice is paying off immensely.

 

[NotLiquid]

Tweek elminated by Sonix 3-1 in the first round of Losers.

Strange times we're in.

 

[Cheryl~]

Just saying.. if every Sonic could play on the level of Sonix and KEN when he started full on camping Tilde's Falco... they uh probably shouldn't lose much, if ever.

 

[SKX31]

Tweek elminated by Sonix 3-1 in the first round of Losers.

Strange times we're in.

Marss got 0-3'd by Shuton as well. These times are only getting stranger.

And Sisqui just 3-0'd Riddles - think that solidifies him as the #2 in Europe and a major threat on the international side.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Just saying.. if every Sonic could play on the level of Sonix and KEN when he started full on camping Tilde's Falco... they uh probably shouldn't lose much, if ever.

Due to the changes Sonic received from SSB4 to Ultimate, Sonic can't really afford to stay in the campy side forever, as some characters will eventually catch up to him. It is entirely matchup and player dependent.
Tweek is known for being a pretty patient player, but does falter against other patient players at times, such as his recent set vs Tea.


Edit:
Here is our sets for tomorrow.


Winner's
MkLeo vs Kola
Sparg0 vs Cosmos


Loser's
ProtoBanham vs Sonix
Dabuz vs MuteAce
Zomba vs Shuton
KEN vs sisqui


This bracket is according to Smash.gg, not what they showed at production.

Seems like a lot of Aegis, but MkLeo only really used her vs Wrath (he hates the Byleth vs Sonic matchup). He technically also used her vs Myran and Anathema, but he was already commandingly winning both sets, he just wanted to get practice with her.
Shuton also only used her vs moxi, even though he won the first game with Olimar and ended up winning the whole set 3-0.

That being said, the two best Aegis players are at top 8 winner's, about to face off against eachother. Outside of a rather shaky set vs Zomba (watching the set in Nairo's stream was hilarious), Cosmos has been performing immaculately today, while we all know how strong Sparg0 is.

The winner's bracket is Mexico vs USA.
The loser's bracket is a Japanese bloodbath, which includes a lone rep from both Europe (sisqui) and the Dominican Republic (Sonix), and three reps from USA (Dabuz, MuteAce, Zomba).

 

[StrangeKitten]

Just saying.. if every Sonic could play on the level of Sonix and KEN when he started full on camping Tilde's Falco... they uh probably shouldn't lose much, if ever.

While campy Sonic is strong most of the time, it's worth pointing out that more aggressive playstyles are needed in some matchups. Steve in particular is a character you don't want to camp against, as overwhelming him speed to try and prevent him from getting good tools is the way to go.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Tweek elminated by Sonix 3-1 in the first round of Losers.

Strange times we're in.

Was Tweek playing Diddy for this match mostly or did he use Wario too?

Tweek's Diddy really shouldn't be losing this, but then again, I would be beaten badly by Sonix myself so yeah.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Was Tweek playing Diddy for this match mostly or did he use Wario too?

Tweek's Diddy really shouldn't be losing this, but then again, I would be beaten badly by Sonix myself so yeah.

He only used Diddy throughout that set, and it was a 3-1 victory for Sonix.
I was half-expecting a switch at game 4 considering how dominant game 3 was, maybe to Wolf or something, but he stayed with Diddy.

Between this and some other troubles he ran into the past several events, Tweek's Diddy is still great, but it isn't looking nearly as powerful and dominant as it was in the early stages of the post-quarantine era.

 

[NairWizard]

It's a good time to be a sword player. In top 4 winners, there's a Roy, a Byleth, two Aegis and one Aegis secondary, and two Cloud secondaries.
In losers, you also see a Lucina and another Aegis.

Why are swords suddenly resurging in the top-level meta? Some of it is buffs/nerfs/release of DLC Aegis to be sure, but there's also advancements in ledgetrapping.

Ledgetrapping used to be mostly focused on covering neutral getup with precise timings, but between ledge-hang delays and jump timings that reversal'd you for being too close to ledge (+ WiFi neutral getup being hard to punish during pandemic-era smash), this became less optimal and top players started to cover roll more. A disjoint is the best way to cover ledge jump preemptively and then be in position to cover roll. Bonus points if these moves also kill.

Cloud b-air to cover ledge jump -> f-tilt, both kill
Roy b-air to cover ledge jump -> jab/d-tilt/f-tilt, many killing options
Pyra f-air to cover ledge jump -> f-tilt, both kill; can even do up-tilt or b-air (unique killing b-air that covers rolls)
Byleth b-air to cover ledge jump -> up/f-tilt (or just n-air with drift into dash attack at 80), both kill. (Byleth up-tilt is active for 7 frames which is more than Pyra up-tilt which is insane, your opponent can basically never roll as long as you're even semi-conscious)

Lucina's a bit worse because she's not killing you from the ledge situation with a tilt.

Covering roll at ledge is the meta, get you a character with a safe disjoint who can kill from roll position after landing with a spaced aerial to cover ledge jump and you're gold