Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[KirbySquad101]

Since "carried by a top player" seems to be the flavor of the week topic given Zackray's win with Sora (and probably even moreso with MKLeo's victory with mostly solo Byleth), I'll just say that while I definitely agree that player skill should be factored in, I think the big thing people are missing is that a player using a character, and a character being used by a player is a two-way street.

When MKLeo is reading Sparg0's get-up option on a platform and punishing accordingly with a Byleth falling UAir, that's MKLeo being really good with the character and outplaying Sparg0 in that instance.

When that same falling UAir leads to a 40% kill confirm off the top, that's Byleth being stupid lol.

 

[SwagGuy99]

Top 64 character representation at Port Priority (data linked in the google doc below)

Top 64 character representation Port Priority

Character Data Mains,Secondaries,Main pts,Secondary pts,Total,Usage % Adam,Yoshi,Palutena,5,0,5,6.90% Baren,Sora,Mario,3,0,3,4.14% BassMage,Jigglypuff,Ness,3,0,3,4.14% BigBoss,R.O.B.,Olimar,3,0,3,4.14% Biggymouth,R.O.B.,PAC-MAN,3,0,3,4.14% Capsize,Greninja,R.O.B.,3,0,3,4.14% Cattail,Toon Link,Joker

docs.google.com

 

[Cheryl~]

The rise of Pythra is upon us, despite 2 of the 3 that got top 2 at 3 different majors/big regionals, 2nd Shuton with pythra + olimar, Spargo with pythra + cloud and with Cosmos getting 1st at Cyphacon, we're well on the way of Pythra slowly solidifying themselves as a top 3 or possibly even Top 1 character since there's a good amount of people that say they're barely top 5 and even moreso as the main two Jokers, MKleo and Zackray keep hopping around different characters to win with for most of their sets. They could overtake that spot pretty soon from both usage across the globe and general success while doing so.

On another note, couldn't find many matches of Raito at kagaribi outside of one for top 8 entry where he played only DH, sad to see no Banjo-Kazooie play especially since surprisingly this thread was overly positive on the other animal duo when I thought the general consensus was vitriol because "zoning projectile spammers" tends to be on everyone's hate agenda.
Nice sight tbh

edit: completely missed somebody else already mentioning Cyphacon and pythra results being extremely good this weekend. Oh well

Raito vs. Ly was streamed on EastGeekSmash's YouTube channel, he used both Banjo/Duck Hunt in that set although he did end up losing in the end. I think only his Duck Hunt took games off of Ly anyway, the Banjo might just need more time in the cooker.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Riddles believes the Belmonts are good

I think richter is really underrated

— Liquid | Riddles (@RiddlesMK) November 1, 2021

He also believes they're better then Kazuya

Hes better than kazuya

— Liquid | Riddles (@RiddlesMK) November 1, 2021

AndresFn, the best Ryu and Ken in Europe was discussing Kazuya with Riddles afterwards.

people don't understand that consistency is the point, yeah you can make big upsets with kaz as you can lose your r2.

"peak kazuya" is not real, it's like "peak smash 4 shulk".

— AndresFn (@AndresFnSsb) November 1, 2021

 

[blackghost]

Oh no I really wanted to watch this one! D=

I wanted to see Lima's Bayo and Niko's Sephiroth.

Any idea where I can watch the replay?

found the vod https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1192241063

this event was wierd hardly anyone has their games on stream pre top 16. lima was only on stream twice i think. it feels like there was a second stream. this event was wierd.

Riddles believes the Belmonts are good

I think richter is really underrated

— Liquid | Riddles (@RiddlesMK) November 1, 2021

He also believes they're better then Kazuya

Hes better than kazuya

— Liquid | Riddles (@RiddlesMK) November 1, 2021

AndresFn, the best Ryu and Ken in Europe was discussing Kazuya with Riddles afterwards.

people don't understand that consistency is the point, yeah you can make big upsets with kaz as you can lose your r2.

"peak kazuya" is not real, it's like "peak smash 4 shulk".

— AndresFn (@AndresFnSsb) November 1, 2021

fundementally disagree. shulk in smash 4 had a lot of theory but you hardly ever even saw its applications (some would argue we still havent). we have seen in flashes what kazuya on his game looks like and players jaws have dropped.
kazuya execution isnt about theory its about consistency in execution. I think we as smash players are so used to characters being on the easier end we seem to have forgot what the grind is. fox in melee didnt magically end up where he is now.
I also disagree because in other games (dante mvc , kazuya tekken, and most top tiers in sf4 and sfv have extremely hard links and combos to perform at high level but the players do it. As others have said kazuya is a melee character in ultimate only other character even remotely close to him in execution barrier is ice climbers and peach.

if riddles REALLY thinks belmonts are better than kazuya he should try going to the next major and backing that up. a character like belmont do well when the game is new and their ease of use being low and then erode over time due to their inherent flaws on mobility and recovery and lack of get of me button.

 

[NairWizard]

People still aren't playing the Byleth MU correctly and it really bugs me. Almost everyone who tries to edgeguard MKLeo goes super deep offstage and gets spiked by the up-b, or just doesn't go offstage at all.

Byleth's tether prioritizes ledge, so if Byleth is in tether range of the ledge, Byleth always snaps to ledge and you don't have to worry about getting spiked.

If Byleth isn't in tether range of the ledge, then he can't make it back unless he has a double jump.

You should always be going for edgeguards against Byleth once he's in tether range, and most lingering hitboxes will just kill him. Byleth's airspeed is really bad and his aerial hitboxes are commital. And yet I see so many top players just stand at ledge patiently waiting for MKLeo to tether back. It's been like 5 supermajors now and Leo is guaranteed to be an obstacle in your path if you're trying top 3 an event. No excuse, study the matchup.

Also thanks blackghost for the Bayo tips. Very insightful.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

People still aren't playing the Byleth MU correctly and it really bugs me. Almost everyone who tries to edgeguard MKLeo goes super deep offstage and gets spiked by the up-b, or just doesn't go offstage at all.

Byleth's tether prioritizes ledge, so if Byleth is in tether range of the ledge, Byleth always snaps to ledge and you don't have to worry about getting spiked.

If Byleth isn't in tether range of the ledge, then he can't make it back unless he has a double jump.

You should always be going for edgeguards against Byleth once he's in tether range, and most lingering hitboxes will just kill him. Byleth's airspeed is really bad and his aerial hitboxes are commital. And yet I see so many top players just stand at ledge patiently waiting for MKLeo to tether back. It's been like 5 supermajors now and Leo is guaranteed to be an obstacle in your path if you're trying top 3 an event. No excuse, study the matchup.

Also thanks blackghost for the Bayo tips. Very insightful.

I have to agree. Though Leo definitely knows how to wait justttt long enough before using up b to escape some potentially stock ending edge guards. The fact Joker is also a tether up b definitely helped Leo in mastering recovering with Byleth. The fact Leo is so good at getting back to ledge and the fact that Leo is the best ledge trapper in ultimate definitely makes people hesitate going off stage against him. A near miss when going off stage to edge guard can mean you are now at ledge and Leo is on stage, a harrowing position for anyone to be in, I don’t blame them.

 

[Thinkaman]

On the subject of buffs and anecdotes from yesterday:

buffs were pretty obviously in play. Jab was the biggest, with Bassmage getting both jab->dash attack punish and jab->jab-interrupting-grab a few times against various opponents that would not previouslly have been possible. We're talking stocks here, folks. He also got some visible mileage out of the added bair safety, even if I didn't see any particularly juicy newly possible conversions out of it. He used the new d-throw multiple times against Tweek, but it's unclear that it ever actually helped him that much.

The buffs showed up less against Spargo; I started to wonder if he was getting tired and regressing a bit to older, more familar patterns. New jab should still be great against Aegis.

buffs predictably mattered far-less-but-still-some. Uair being a common damage tool, and every point of damage mattering against Incineroar, are not new or strange ideas. But what was funny was one case where Mystery Sol actually landed 2 d-smashes against a shield in modest succession, barely popping it when it wouldn't have before. (While he messed up the punish and did lose that game... still!)

I didn't exactly count the number of uairs, calculate the added damage, and see if that would have prevented a kill, but it's pretty plausible given how often they rely on uair.

I still want to see a little more Revenge, particularly against opponents with safe projectiles/sword-aerials and weak grabs.

 

[NairWizard]

While it's true that it's risky to edgeguard Byleth and whiff, the risk:reward is in your favor when the ledge is within tether range for Byleth. You can't immediately die from being spiked, and Byleth's ledgetrapping won't kill you at mid percents unless you get b-aired, which is a specific option that you can play around. Drag down up-air stuff only works on panic DI (or conditioned DI), so you have to be mindful of that too.

In general, the counterplay to Byleth's ledgetrapping is to wait out the fast fall b-air (and not ledge jump), then wait until Byleth is no longer in a position to f-tilt your neutral getup on reaction. Byleth can't both be positioned to f-tilt the neutral getup AND ALSO catch your ledge jump, and there are gaps that you can react to between his re-positioning attempts as he tries to prepare for one or the other. To catch you on hanging on the ledge for an extra second, Byleth needs to down-angled f-smash, and that takes some time to set up, so you can hang there for a second or two and then react to Byleth trying to pre-emptively catch your ledge jump and pick an option. It isn't foolproof and Leo will still get some damage on you, but not a lot of good players are doing it yet. Sparg0 was definitely doing some of that this weekend and it showed because Leo wasn't getting too much from ledgetrapping in some of those games.

There isn't much margin for error in edgeguarding Byleth, but I mean, the same can be said for playing vs. Bowser in neutral with some characters or Mythra near center stage. There's not much margin for error where you're not getting hit or being put in a bad position, but if that's what you have to do to win the matchup, you should at least be trying it. It seems like most top players aren't trying it.

ESAM did, and he won. Maister was also doing it pretty often. I imagine he's played Leo enough to know how to edgegeuard the up-b. I imagine that Tweek is going to do it the next time they play too.

Byleth is really pretty good, but some of Leo's matches remind me of early Maister where people were Peach f-airing into Game and Watch's up-smash. Some top players are really playing the MU poorly, and it's disappointing, because I'd like to see what Leo can do with Byleth once people have fully adjusted. My hunch is that he'll have to go more and more Joker as counterplay develops, but I can't be sure yet.

 

[Nobie]

I don't pretend to have any insight into Riddles's mindset, but his frustration with Kazuya seems a lot like a frustration with having to deal with camping. And I don't mean that it's just a matter of bad matchups, but that the act of having Kazuya's damage denied looks like a more frustrating position than other bad ones. Kazuya's whole play style is capitalizing on the opponent's mistakes instead of forcing his way in, and if you can shut that down, you shut him down.

You know who IS pretty good at dealing with camping? Richter. And while Richter's not that fast, he's a much more proactive character, and possibly has a better time against Min Min.

 

[SKX31]

With Shuton and Sparg0 getting 2nd at Kagaribi 5 and Port Priority 6 respectively, combined with Cosmos getting 1st here, Pyra/Mythra had a fantastic weekend. I'll be shocked if they don't overtake on OrionStats this weekend.

Hold the phone a bit here. Orion's point scaling does not massively favor supermajors* (while a supermajor win grants a mained character 16 points, a local win grants 4) and Snake had a pretty decent weekend too - if a bit underwhelming:

• Port Priority (Category 4): Chronos 13th (5 points) MVD 17th (4 points). Sparg0 got 11 points, just 2 more than the Snakes. Sparg0 didn't cut into that as much as one would think (incl. me, honestly).
• Kagaribi (Category 5): Ike and Nomachi 49th, 5 points each for a total of 10 points. While Shuton gained 15 and Munekin 9 by placing 17th - possibly overtaking by this - my main question here is if they count as secondary Aegis. If they were the point hauls are cut in half (for a potential minimum of 12 if both were secondaries). That's a potentially pretty major factor.
• I have no idea about if CyPhaCon would rank as a Category 2 or 3. Snake would get no points if it's a Cat 2 - and Aegis would get 6 - buuuut Aegis get 8 if it's a Cat 3 and Snake 1 (Ronnichu getting 13th) for a bigger result.

These three by themselves do at the very least leave Aegis within 0.5 points of Snake (minimum of 2+2+6 = 10, the gap between the two being 10.5) - and if all of the above go the Aegis' way they'll overtake Snake by 12.5 points. So yes, the situation looks really good for them. But regionals and locals can go either way since their points do add up quickly. You can't count on supermajors / majors happening every week, but a local / regional does happen somewhere in the world at least once or twice a week on average (edit: apparently there were like 5-7 or so regionals / locals around the world this past weekend, which I only found out by searching October 31st on the doc. Wut.). And it's gotten to the point where the Player Value Sheet includes a lot more than the PGR players: the sheet includes players from over 50 countries and with a massive geographic spread.

As an aside, Das Koopa: I just noticed that there are no Russian / CIS tournaments noted on the OrionStats doc or players on the Player Value Sheet, while it is on the Region map and 50 PVS points would go to the best player as per the methodology doc. Yes, the PR there is based on braacket.com and most tournaments have been online, but there have also been at least one in-person tournament back in August. How is the PR going to be handled, if I may ask? And if it's not included, who would get the 50 PVS points? Fairy Seal - a Lithuanian Shulk player who leads the CIS PR as of April 2021 - or someone like Pixelmeme, a Lucas main who leads the Moscow PR and won the in-person tournament?

Really late edit: Here are pics of what I assume to be the in-person tournament, posted by one player who went 0-2.

*(Which IMHO is the right call since regionals and locals help capture broader trends.)

 

[Rizen]

Don't forget, Shuton won WINNER! #4 beating Zackray's .

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Don't forget, Shuton won WINNER! #4 beating Zackray's .

Well, that was just a bi-weekly.
Anyway, Port Priority top 64 character representation.

 

[subterrestrial]

Zackray is the best smash player in the world, anyone who doesn't see this now will see it eventually.

unrelated, but why is Lucina so underrated nowadays? is it due to all the dlc swordie gimmicks overshadowing her? many even consider her midtier which blows my mind...char has no weaknesses

 

[NairWizard]

unrelated, but why is Lucina so underrated nowadays? is it due to all the dlc swordie gimmicks overshadowing her? many even consider her midtier which blows my mind...char has no weaknesses

She's definitely not mid tier, but she has plenty of weaknesses.

• Limited burst range in a meta that loves burst. dash d-tilt or dash canceled f-tilt are her best bets here but those normals are significantly worse than other top options.
• Longer short hops. This can be good for spacing but low hop time is very effective for mixups and limits your anti-air susceptibility. Her SH hang time is 41 frames and her SHFF hang time is 28 frames. Compare to Palutena at 34/24, Roy/Joker at 30/20, or Byleth at 35/24, or Sephiroth's very bizare 27/18.
• Susceptibility to pressure up close. Low grab reward coupled with up-b out of shield being the only real strong close-range tool means that Lucina can be bullied pretty consistently and definitely can't pressure other characters from close range, which means that she has to retreat.
• Trouble landing. She's floaty and doesn't have a quick breakthrough n-air or d-air. For the same reason she gets eaten by Sheik combos etc.

Other good characters have some of these weaknesses too, but they're still weaknesses. For Lucina to be on top of the meta, she needs to optimize her ledgetrapping game.

 

[Arthur97]

Part of it may be due to the "boring" factor. She isn't deemed "hype" and has no real jank so she isn't talked about much other than to say she's boring or something and move on. That said, she may not have many significant weaknesses, but it kinda goes both ways. She doesn't have any ridiculous strengths either.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Zackray is the best smash player in the world, anyone who doesn't see this now will see it eventually.

It's certainly still MkLeo lol. How can you argue against the guy who gets 1st or 2nd at every offline tournament after GOML 2019?

 

[BlueRando]

Outside of Nair, Fair and Neutral B, i personally think that Uair might be a contender for being 's best move, and maybe even the best Uair in the game.

You can think of it as a slightly slower version of 's Uair, but better in any other way: its hitbox is obviously disjointed and covers a lot of space, it lingers, it's a combo starter, combo extender, has good damage and solid kill power. Other than that, you can actually autocancel it with a fastfall from a shorthop, meaning that is also a VERY safe move, both on shield and on whiff. Because of this attribute, it reminds me a lot of ' Bair, but even more versatile.

Basically, this move alone makes 's juggling game just as scary as his edgeguarding, it's actually ridiculous.

 

[blackghost]

I need anyone who thinks Leo isnt the best smash player in the world to come to the front of the class for show and tell.

 

[Sucumbio]

Have they played each other? That'd be a good way to know who's better...

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Have they played each other? That'd be a good way to know who's better...

Yes, numerous times in fact. MkLeo is 4-0 on Zackray.

I'm kind of shocked you wouldn't know though, considering the Smash Con and Frostbite sets they had are some of the most popular sets in Ultimate so far.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Outside of Nair, Fair and Neutral B, i personally think that Uair might be a contender for being 's best move, and maybe even the best Uair in the game.

You can think of it as a slightly slower version of 's Uair, but better in any other way: its hitbox is obviously disjointed and covers a lot of space, it lingers, it's a combo starter, combo extender, has good damage and solid kill power. Other than that, you can actually autocancel it with a fastfall from a shorthop, meaning that is also a VERY safe move, both on shield and on whiff. Because of this attribute, it reminds me a lot of ' Bair, but even more versatile.

Basically, this move alone makes 's juggling game just as scary as his edgeguarding, it's actually ridiculous.

It isn't just slightly slower than Lucina's up air, it is actually MUCH slower.

The up airs of and are frame 5, while is frame 7.
's up air is frame 10, which is double the startup of Marthcina's, while its disjoint size is only about the same as them.


Outside of that, Sora's up air doesn't really do much that Marthcina's already does: theirs is also a great combo starter, extender, and racks up damage quickly, while Marth's can potentially get early KOs with his. Marthcina's much faster startup is also much better in combo breaking and catching opponents landing with an attack.

Plus outside of autocancel scenarios, Marthcina's is also noticeably safer (-3 on shield in comparison to -5 with Sora's). Trying to SHAC with Sora up air can be awkward at times, and even more awkward to land against the opponent, due to his first jump making him stall in the air for a while. Try doing it in comparison to doing it normally with Roy/Chrom (which is -4 on shield).

It's a good up air, but it has it's issues in comparison to other similar up airs.

 

[Sucumbio]

Yes, numerous times in fact. MkLeo is 4-0 on Zackray.

I'm kind of shocked you wouldn't know though, considering the Smash Con and Frostbite sets they had are some of the most popular sets in Ultimate so far.

I haven't seen them no but I will now lol but yeah if he's 4-0 over Zackray I'd say he's the better of the two.

 

[subterrestrial]

It's certainly still MkLeo lol. How can you argue against the guy who gets 1st or 2nd at every offline tournament after GOML 2019?

because I still think Zackray is better overall, due to his vast amounts of playstyles and versatility.

like I said; if you cannot see this now, you will eventually.

 

[NairWizard]

because I still think Zackray is better overall, due to his vast amounts of playstyles and versatility.

like I said; if you cannot see this now, you will eventually.

Or maybe you could explain what you believe his playstyles and versatility have to do with being better instead of just walking away with a smug "one day you'll see I'm right"?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Or maybe you could explain what you believe his playstyles and versatility have to do with being better instead of just walking away with a smug "one day you'll see I'm right"?

It's sad to see that too, I'm a huge Zackray fan myself and I love watching him. But it's just so obvious Leo's better.

Edit: Also Leo beat Zackray at Squad Strike back at Summit 2, so even in mastery of the most amount of characters MkLeo is better.

 

[Arthur97]

Ever hear the phrase "Jack of all trades, ace of none?" Versatility, even if you're really good at all of them, doesn't necessarily make you the best if you still can't pull out the win.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

New OrionStats update.

OrionStats character update - the final for October. Wolf comes within striking distance of #2, Samus hits the Top 30, and Sora gains ~30 points in one week. Toon Link recovers from his stagnancy bolstered largely by JPN results. R.O.B. remains a stable #1 at 4.8% of results. pic.twitter.com/ElJw4toqFD

— Barnard's Loop (@LoopBarnard) November 3, 2021

Will admit, I wasn't expecting Wolf to do better then Palu with the amount of Palutena players at Port Priority 6 + two of them getting top 8. I guess there must have been a lot of Wolf players at locals and regionals.

 

[The_Bookworm]

New OrionStats update.

OrionStats character update - the final for October. Wolf comes within striking distance of #2, Samus hits the Top 30, and Sora gains ~30 points in one week. Toon Link recovers from his stagnancy bolstered largely by JPN results. R.O.B. remains a stable #1 at 4.8% of results. pic.twitter.com/ElJw4toqFD

— Barnard's Loop (@LoopBarnard) November 3, 2021

Will admit, I wasn't expecting Wolf to do better then Palu with the amount of Palutena players at Port Priority 6 + two of them getting top 8. I guess there must have been a lot of Wolf players at locals and regionals.

also exploded in numbers and is approaching . Wolf overtaking her after what happened at Port Priority 6 is a bit confusing though, probably all from locals/regionals.
Also, it seems that has risen up for some strange reason? I don't remember him being at 65th with 45 points at the last update.
I also find it interesting that has been performing close to, or right about the same level as his SSB4-self lately, but has fallen off the chart to be 35th with Pikachu when he was top 30 in the rankings prior to Elegant's recent placings.
One final thing to note: thanks to Dark Wizzy's performance, as well as a few other Mario players at Port Priority 6, has snatched the 15th spot from Min Min from the last update.



Unrelated, but funny thing I came across.

pic.twitter.com/VEZbWOhTMn

— Fix Ice Climbers! (@FixIcies) November 3, 2021

Makes me wonder if this was possible to do with Swordfighter's counter since the start of the game.

 

[Dan Quixote]

Unrelated, but funny thing I came across.

pic.twitter.com/VEZbWOhTMn

— Fix Ice Climbers! (@FixIcies) November 3, 2021

Makes me wonder if this was possible to do with Swordfighter's counter since the start of the game.

How many glitches are there with Sora's counter now?

 

[SKX31]

New OrionStats update.

OrionStats character update - the final for October. Wolf comes within striking distance of #2, Samus hits the Top 30, and Sora gains ~30 points in one week. Toon Link recovers from his stagnancy bolstered largely by JPN results. R.O.B. remains a stable #1 at 4.8% of results. pic.twitter.com/ElJw4toqFD

— Barnard's Loop (@LoopBarnard) November 3, 2021

Will admit, I wasn't expecting Wolf to do better then Palu with the amount of Palutena players at Port Priority 6 + two of them getting top 8. I guess there must have been a lot of Wolf players at locals and regionals.

Some other stuff:

• Apparently there were 16 Regional / Local events - more than I thought - this past weekend (October 30th+31st)! As opposed to 4 Regionals / Locals the weekend before. Looks like quite a few organizers - whether accidentally or intentionally - capitalized on Halloween.
• The 21st - 30th pack has broken up a bit, with a couple small but noticeable gaps forming.
• seems to have fallen a bit, but that's probably due to Gluto and other Wario mains not being as active.
• Not only did leapfrog to 75th with just one update (28.5 points), if he gains like 30-ish points again in a single update he could leapfrog up to 20-25 characters and come rather close to 's haul.
• The fact that and are tied at 71st is kind of depressing for both.

(Also slight goof where has also overaken for 59th assuming the points are correct.)

 

[Aaron1997]

Sakurai and the team had to imagine a wide range of players and play styles. Smash has always been made to cater to a wide range of players, so it was important to try it out in various scenarios. He says: “There’s no right way to play Smash, just play how you want and have fun!” pic.twitter.com/3UFMeWJLRl

— Kody NOKOLO (@KodyNOKOLO) November 3, 2021

Sakurai talked a little about game balance in his Famitsu interview and it confirms my earlier post about "If you expect someone like Incineroar to get speed buffs you are going to be disappointed".


Another things was Aerial Smashes were planned at one point but scrapped due to be being complicated for new players

 

[Cheryl~]

Sakurai and the team had to imagine a wide range of players and play styles. Smash has always been made to cater to a wide range of players, so it was important to try it out in various scenarios. He says: “There’s no right way to play Smash, just play how you want and have fun!” pic.twitter.com/3UFMeWJLRl

— Kody NOKOLO (@KodyNOKOLO) November 3, 2021

Sakurai a little about game balance in his Famitsu interview and it confirms my earlier post about "If you expect someone like Incineroar to get speed buffs you are going to be disappointed".


Another things was Aerial Smashes were planned at one point but scrapped due to be being complicated for new players

good thing one character still kept that idea.

 

[Idon]

Sakurai and the team had to imagine a wide range of players and play styles. Smash has always been made to cater to a wide range of players, so it was important to try it out in various scenarios. He says: “There’s no right way to play Smash, just play how you want and have fun!” pic.twitter.com/3UFMeWJLRl

— Kody NOKOLO (@KodyNOKOLO) November 3, 2021

Sakurai a little about game balance in his Famitsu interview and it confirms my earlier post about "If you expect someone like Incineroar to get speed buffs you are going to be disappointed".


Another things was Aerial Smashes were planned at one point but scrapped due to be being complicated for new players

Sakurai doesn't want to eliminate weaknesses but sure does like adding characters where their weaknesses are really hard to exploit lol.

 

[toonito]

New OrionStats update.

OrionStats character update - the final for October. Wolf comes within striking distance of #2, Samus hits the Top 30, and Sora gains ~30 points in one week. Toon Link recovers from his stagnancy bolstered largely by JPN results. R.O.B. remains a stable #1 at 4.8% of results. pic.twitter.com/ElJw4toqFD

— Barnard's Loop (@LoopBarnard) November 3, 2021

Will admit, I wasn't expecting Wolf to do better then Palu with the amount of Palutena players at Port Priority 6 + two of them getting top 8. I guess there must have been a lot of Wolf players at locals and regionals.

biggest gain +8
biggest drop -7

 

[Ziodyne 21]

These Sora glitches make we curious of were going to at least get one more character patch. If only just to fix these glitches

 

[Cutie Gwen]

These Sora glitches make we curious of were going to at least get one more character patch. If only just to fix these glitches

Considering not every Spirit is available quite yet I think it's safe to say we're getting a couple of updates which are a good opportunity to patch characters

 

[Kokiden]

because I still think Zackray is better overall, due to his vast amounts of playstyles and versatility.

like I said; if you cannot see this now, you will eventually.

That's like saying style over substance.

You're the best if you're consistent in 1st place victories, not because you're versatile.

If we go by results (we as should), then MkLeo is the best. Zackray is an outstanding player in his own right, but he's not as consistent in winning as MkLeo is.

 

[Gunla]

These Sora glitches make we curious of were going to at least get one more character patch. If only just to fix these glitches

Worth mentioning that historically, we did get a balance patch after Bayo that only did cover her in S4 - I imagine that might be in the cards not only for later amiibo support but likely to address any bugs with Sora; I would temper expectations regarding other characters, however.

 

[The_Bookworm]

We actually got two balance patches after came out in 1.1.4.

Patch 1.1.5 came out about a month that acted as one of the biggest balance patches in SSB4 history.
Patch 1.1.6 came out a few months later only to nerf Bayonetta, making it clear that this patch was not originally planned to exist.

We then got patch 1.1.7 a year later, but it gave out no balance changes and instead existed for amiibo functionality for the Cloud, Corrin, and Bayo amiibos. Patch 1.1.6 replays were saved in the transition to patch 1.1.7.


Whether or not we get more balance changes for Ultimate remains to be seen.

We have far exceeded the SSB4 patch cycle (SSB4's is about 2 years, Ultimate's is almost 3 years), and the recent balance changes of Ultimate has been rather tame since 8.0.0. We are also in a better spot balance-wise than with any of the previous Smash games.

We will get more patches in general for amiibo support (Min Min, Steve, and Alex amiibos are scheduled for Spring 2022) and adding event-only spirits to the Spirit Board, but like 1.1.7 in SSB4, it can just straight up be nothing.

However, they have confirmed that they will continue working on patches for the game, so we may get something in the future, but the degree of which remains unknown.