Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[The_Bookworm]

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Maybe with rage more of his combos become true, so the lightweight ensures that won't be a constant, every-stock thing for his opponent to deal with?

How does having more rage make his combos more true?

Rage typically does the opposite and make combos less consistent. I don't really see what Sora can do that will say otherwise.

 

[NotLiquid]

Sora's probably going to be the one character in the game where "has to kill via edgeguarding", unlike scrappy hitters like Inkling, might actually not serve as an abject detriment. Between his long-lingering active hitboxes, borderline flight-level omnipresence, and a litany of moves that feel like they carry various context-sensitive application, you've got a character who's invariably going to have an option for almost any position the opponent might be in when in a state of recovery. He might actually stomp Palutena in terms of area of denial prowess and that feels like it could turn out to be a big deal. This feels like a character that goes from decent to scary the moment you get sent off-stage, and in a game where characters often manage to flaunt long recoveries as a boon, it seems like it can easily turn into a liability when matched against him.

I'm not surprised he seemingly lacks potent out-of-shield options in the demo build, because if he had it any easier to perform reversals when in disadvantage, he'd probably be really overtuned.

 

[Nekoo]

I'm not surprised he seemingly lacks potent out-of-shield options in the demo build, because if he had it any easier to perform reversals when in disadvantage, he'd probably be really overtuned.

I mean. A possible frame 10 up-b OOS isn't something to be ashamed either to be fair, even more if Sakurai isn't "lying" (or rather overselling) the potential kill-power

 

[blackghost]

That's a good point. His counter effectively has two ripostes, one of which is frame 1.




Yeah, and I feel its weird that Sora is a bit lighter than expected for a human character, and also, that they'd specifically call that out in the initial showcase.

Is Sora an offensive powerhouse?

Maybe with rage more of his combos become true, so the lightweight ensures that won't be a constant, every-stock thing for his opponent to deal with?

I didnt say offensive powerhouse i said offensive toolkit. And i see no reason why he wouldn't. he has burst options, combo potential, and air mobility.
i think hes gonna spend a lot of time in the air personally and his MU chart will depend on how his OP anti airs him.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Tweek, Hazmatt and Charles did Tweek Talks last night and they mentioned about Sora, and they think he looks strong.

Here’s also Tweek’s move set analysis of Sora.

 

[Kokiden]

With this being namco's second round at balancing a smash game they have taken the approach that wieght is a means to make characters less consistent that have high offensive toolkits.

Sepiroth is light because of one-wing existence imo.

I dunno. It just seems to me like making his weight that light was tossed in just because. It's not like it stays for long.

Joker has a comeback mechanic too where he hits harder, and his weight isn't that light.

It was weird to me when it was first discovered he had PIkachi weight, and my initial reaction to it still hasn't lessened after all this time.

I just think it's a very strange way to balance him, and not in a good way.

That's a good point. His counter effectively has two ripostes, one of which is frame 1.




Yeah, and I feel its weird that Sora is a bit lighter than expected for a human character, and also, that they'd specifically call that out in the initial showcase.

Is Sora an offensive powerhouse?

Maybe with rage more of his combos become true, so the lightweight ensures that won't be a constant, every-stock thing for his opponent to deal with?

I've seen people say it could be because he has Bayo potential combos, but we shall see.

By Bayo potential, I mean in Ultimate. Good combos, but you can get out of them.

Gotta play the character first to be sure, of course.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

For the first time in Ultimate's history, Glutonny's Wario was double eliminated by another European player. Not counting online of course.

It doesn't have the smash.gg bracket yet so I don't know the results other then Glutonny getting 2nd.

Edit: BTW matchup chart from LMan, an Aegis main.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Nekoo]

For the first time in Ultimate's history, Glutonny's Wario was double eliminated by another European player. Not counting online of course.

It doesn't have the smash.gg bracket yet so I don't know the results other then Glutonny getting 2nd.

Edit: BTW matchup chart from LMan, an Aegis main.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

It was Rafflow, top 10 FR, probbaly the best European Palutena.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So Seibugeki 8 has its seeding done... It's very strange.

1. Huto
2. Gackt
3. HIKARU
4. Shuton
5. Etsuji
6. ProtoBanham
7. Zackray
8. Eim
9. chicken
10. Akakikusu
11. KEN
12. Jogibu
13. Raito
14. Mao
15. Tsu
16. kept
17. shky
18. Noi
19. paru
20. Jagaimo
21. DoubleA
22. Ly
23. Repo
24. Ryuoh
25. YOC
26. Taikei
27. Kameme
28. Manzoku
29. Nanchan
30. Lickey
31. Yamanaction
32. Paseriman

Yeah I have no idea why Zackray and Proto aren't top 2 seed either.

 

[blackghost]

I've seen people say it could be because he has Bayo potential combos, but we shall see.

By Bayo potential, I mean in Ultimate. Good combos, but you can get out of them.

Gotta play the character first to be sure, of course.

Anyone saying sora has bayo level combos or comboability is crazy. Sora can chain three hits and a special. bayo can chain 4 specials and have multiple normals mixed in. she can chain fairs and has prob the most options in the game when someone cannot di.
I doubt his combo game will even approach falco, kazuya, or mario.

 

[RonNewcomb]

How does having more rage make his combos more true?

Rage increases knockback ("KB").

Hitstun is a pure function of KB. (A flat 40% of KB units = the #/frames, at least until dust trails are left by the victim when the hitstun and flyaway are played in fast-forward for Ultimate's signature "balloon" effect.)

Autocombos, on all except their final hit, typically have mostly set-KB with little to no KB-growth. (Else they would fail to combo consistently.)

Rage doesn't affect set-KB, just KBG. (This is how they fixed rage jank kills that plagued Smash4, where rage affected both.)

So i.e. if Soma has just a little KBG on fair-2 and it doesn't combo* into up-B by just a frame or two, then rage could grant him the extra hitstun to make it combo without pushing the opponent out too far for it to whiff.

*"Combo" here includes "tight enough to frametrap airdodge startup". Which a few characters could still bust out of until it becomes truly true.

 

[Rizen]

I've been catching up on Glitch videos and it looks like and are feeling their nerfs. Pre-nerf I would have put them as contenders for the best character in the game. Now, although still really good, they're more honest characters. Pretty much everyone I've put in top tier has been nerfed over the course of Ultimate's lifespan except and . IDK why the devs are dragging their feet with ROB; his results are everywhere. I expect Pythra nerfs with Sora's release.

Speaking of Pythra, it looks like Naitosharp is adding them to his roster of top tiers he plays.

 

[Trunks159]

I dunno. It just seems to me like making his weight that light was tossed in just because. It's not like it stays for long.

Joker has a comeback mechanic too where he hits harder, and his weight isn't that light.

It was weird to me when it was first discovered he had PIkachi weight, and my initial reaction to it still hasn't lessened after all this time.

I just think it's a very strange way to balance him, and not in a good way.



I've seen people say it could be because he has Bayo potential combos, but we shall see.

By Bayo potential, I mean in Ultimate. Good combos, but you can get out of them.

Gotta play the character first to be sure, of course.

I think it's because theoretically they expect Sephiroth to play a more defensive and keepaway playstyle. So with the wing adding distance and mixups as well as Octoslash being practically unchallengable (as well as having an uncharged version), his recovery isn't a reliable way to KO him. All you would be able to do is kill him off the top most of the time so if he was say Cloud weight he'd be living to insane percentages consistently and making full use of that wing while simultaneously not ever having to get close to his opponent because of his reach.

They typically give the Superheavies/heavies exploitable recoveries so they don't always live to 160%.

 

[SwagGuy99]

This is something I found not too long ago: Nietono's Pichu matchup chart from a stream he did in August. I think most of what's shown here probably still holds true, since it's only been about 2 months. Tiers are a little hard to make out because of the video quality but they are from top to bottom: worse than -2, -2, -1, 0 or -0.5, 0, 0 or +0.5, +1, +2 in that order

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Elegant did a Luigi matchup chart and he's still very positive on the character.

Updated Luigi MU Chart!! pic.twitter.com/MtQySsm3Ku

— TSUKA (@Elegant_Matt) October 10, 2021

 

[Thinkaman]

It was weird to me when it was first discovered he had PIkachi weight, and my initial reaction to it still hasn't lessened after all this time.

This is a fun, silly topic. You have my blessing to treat it as an on-topic distraction until Sora arrives.

So, I trust official height and weight (5' 9", 187 lbs) more than most game stats. Most are old, debatably non-canon, or just obviously wrong afterthoughts. I'm going to use Ryu as my baseline, 187 lbs = 103 smash-weight.

If smash's "weight" is linear, that means:
is 214 lbs
is 194 lbs
is 192 lbs
and are both 189 lbs

is 178 lbs
are both 174 lbs, which I leave without further comment
and are both 170 lbs; those big heads sure are dense (Toon Link is 165 too)
is169 lbs, suspect
is 161 lbs, also suspect
is 160 lbs, super suspect
is 158 lbs, even though he is supposed to be 107 lbs! In Smash 4 weight, he would have been 149 lbs.
is 147 lbs, less than she supposedly is.
is 143 lbs, about 75% of what he probably should

is 153 lbs, while is 142 lbs; Zelda's thick dress and giant jewelry being 11 lbs more actually is pretty reasonable.

is 145 lbs while is 196 lbs... much more questionable. The Power Suit is supposedly 200 lbs in canon, not 50. Samus herself was supposed to be 190 lbs, but the ZSS character redesign kind of killed that notion.

is 185 lbs, much less than his 230 in canon though nothing as bad as Samus.

is 156 lbs, way more than a dog (or duck) of that size should weight.

is 143 lbs, versus a canon value of just 13. But then you remember that Pikachu is also only supposed to be 16 inches tall, and the Smash Pikachu is scaled up 2.25x to a size that rivals the biggest breeds of dogs. (Much chunkier than Duck Hunt!) At this size, his canonical weight would be 148 lbs, making Pikachu's weight actually one of the most reasonable on the roster. Similar calculations apply to Jigglypuff.

is 211 lbs, very close to his canon value.

meanwhile is 140 lbs, a huge difference from his canonical value of 269. But I suppose if you describe it as 16% of a Steelix, it's not that low. Greninja is also half the weight he is supposed to be, and Ivysaur's canonical weight is just stupid. The point is, Pokedex weight were guessed by a 10-year old and don't matter.

is 192 lbs; if you scaled up the actual real-life ROB 7.5x times, it would weight more than 2000 lbs. It's a rather dense toy! Our version could be made of much lighter materials, but also needs, uh, rockets, fuel, and lasers.

is 231 lbs, which is probably half the weight a male gorilla of his size should have.
tops us out at 245 lbs, also comically low even after his weight ballooned in every version of Smash.


My conclusion: Most the weights work out surprisingly well, but "weight" seems to almost be a sort of "density" that excludes height. All the tall characters--heavy or light--have lower weight values than guessing their pure mass would suggest. (And short characters, especially humanoids, have more.) When you add in that gravity itself is not only strange but different for each character, the very notion of "weight" as it is to us becomes sort of funky.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Results for Seibugeki 8

1. ProtoBanham
2. Eim
3. Gackt
4. Shuton
5. Akakikusu
5. Manzoku
7. Huto
7. MASA
9. Akasa
9. Taikei
9. Mao
9. Jogibu
13. Umeki
13. TKM
13. KEN
13. Raito
17. kept
17. Futari no Kiwami Ah-!
17. Oreshi
17. Kintero
17. Mikitsu
17. paru
17. Etsuji
17. FILIP
25. Ike
25. murasat
25. Repo
25. Yamanaction
25. Kameme
25. Kyou
25. yuiton
25. Aiba

Zackray DQ'd from event.

Edit: Sora's weight is not 79 like Sephiroth, Pikachu, Olimar, Kirby or Mewtwo. It's 85, the same as Zelda.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosUltimate/comments/q54zdn

 

[Kokiden]

This is a fun, silly topic. You have my blessing to treat it as an on-topic distraction until Sora arrives.

So, I trust official height and weight (5' 9", 187 lbs) more than most game stats. Most are old, debatably non-canon, or just obviously wrong afterthoughts. I'm going to use Ryu as my baseline, 187 lbs = 103 smash-weight.

If smash's "weight" is linear, that means:
is 214 lbs
is 194 lbs
is 192 lbs
and are both 189 lbs

is 178 lbs
are both 174 lbs, which I leave without further comment
and are both 170 lbs; those big heads sure are dense (Toon Link is 165 too)
is169 lbs, suspect
is 161 lbs, also suspect
is 160 lbs, super suspect
is 158 lbs, even though he is supposed to be 107 lbs! In Smash 4 weight, he would have been 149 lbs.
is 147 lbs, less than she supposedly is.
is 143 lbs, about 75% of what he probably should

is 153 lbs, while is 142 lbs; Zelda's thick dress and giant jewelry being 11 lbs more actually is pretty reasonable.

is 145 lbs while is 196 lbs... much more questionable. The Power Suit is supposedly 200 lbs in canon, not 50. Samus herself was supposed to be 190 lbs, but the ZSS character redesign kind of killed that notion.

is 185 lbs, much less than his 230 in canon though nothing as bad as Samus.

is 156 lbs, way more than a dog (or duck) of that size should weight.

is 143 lbs, versus a canon value of just 13. But then you remember that Pikachu is also only supposed to be 16 inches tall, and the Smash Pikachu is scaled up 2.25x to a size that rivals the biggest breeds of dogs. (Much chunkier than Duck Hunt!) At this size, his canonical weight would be 148 lbs, making Pikachu's weight actually one of the most reasonable on the roster. Similar calculations apply to Jigglypuff.

is 211 lbs, very close to his canon value.

meanwhile is 140 lbs, a huge difference from his canonical value of 269. But I suppose if you describe it as 16% of a Steelix, it's not that low. Greninja is also half the weight he is supposed to be, and Ivysaur's canonical weight is just stupid. The point is, Pokedex weight were guessed by a 10-year old and don't matter.

is 192 lbs; if you scaled up the actual real-life ROB 7.5x times, it would weight more than 2000 lbs. It's a rather dense toy! Our version could be made of much lighter materials, but also needs, uh, rockets, fuel, and lasers.

is 231 lbs, which is probably half the weight a male gorilla of his size should have.
tops us out at 245 lbs, also comically low even after his weight ballooned in every version of Smash.


My conclusion: Most the weights work out surprisingly well, but "weight" seems to almost be a sort of "density" that excludes height. All the tall characters--heavy or light--have lower weight values than guessing their pure mass would suggest. (And short characters, especially humanoids, have more.) When you add in that gravity itself is not only strange but different for each character, the very notion of "weight" as it is to us becomes sort of funky.

Sephiorth being lighter than Joker (a slender, teenage Japanese schoolboy) and Ness and Lucas (basically kids) tickles my funny bone.

Just... lol

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

On the topic of Seibugeki 8, I think now might be time for some discussion, because both VoiD and Eim overperformed pretty heavily in the character at Summit 3 for VoiD and Seibugeki 8 for Eim. 2nd at a Japanese major is no joke, and I really think Sheik is one of those characters that's rare due to being hard, yet also does extremely well whenever there's a good Sheik in tournament. Eim was one of very few to force Proto off of the due to how horrible that matchup is for Min Min, while also beating players like Umeki and he 3-0'd Gackt. Gackt in particular is very good at that matchup and has beaten Eim in the past.

I legitimately think is a top 15-20 character rn, her weakness of "lack of kill power" really doesn't seem to be holding her back at all and she's really fast, has some of the best frame data in the game, top 3 neutral game (if not flat out the best neutral period due to her safety on shield unlike ), has great edgeguarding and can camp with Needles. Crazy thing is that we haven't even seen optimized Sheik yet.

 

[Cheryl~]

Results for Seibugeki 8

1. ProtoBanham
2. Eim
3. Gackt
4. Shuton
5. Akakikusu
5. Manzoku
7. Huto
7. MASA
9. Akasa
9. Taikei
9. Mao
9. Jogibu
13. Umeki
13. TKM
13. KEN
13. Raito
17. kept
17. Futari no Kiwami Ah-!
17. Oreshi
17. Kintero
17. Mikitsu
17. paru
17. Etsuji
17. FILIP
25. Ike
25. murasat
25. Repo
25. Yamanaction
25. Kameme
25. Kyou
25. yuiton
25. Aiba

Zackray DQ'd from event.

Edit: Sora's weight is not 79 like Sephiroth, Pikachu, Olimar, Kirby or Mewtwo. It's 85, the same as Zelda.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosUltimate/comments/q54zdn

Was there a stream for this event?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Was there a stream for this event?

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スマブラ大会 西武撃#8 feat,しゅーとん protobanham KEN アカキクス かめめ つー HIKARU えつじ Huto がくと じょうぎぶ ライト kept and more

トーナメント表https://smash.gg/tournament/8-11/event/singles/brackets西武撃は、西東京で行われるスマブラSPを使用した非営利のコミュニティ大会です。主催:西武撃運営(https://twitter.com/SeiBuGeki_0928 )提供:一心たん助 様(...

www.youtube.com

 

[NairWizard]

The notion that Sheik has low kill power is hilarious to me. If Sheik doesn’t kill you with an edgeguard at 60, she kills you at 70 from a fast, low-profiling tilt. And if she misses that you have to avoid a million needle confirms until 130 where she finally might struggle to kill until 180.

Sheik struggles to kill when you’re bad with her. In practice, at high level, Sheik has an easier time killing you than Wolf or Palutena.

 

[blackghost]

The notion that Sheik has low kill power is hilarious to me. If Sheik doesn’t kill you with an edgeguard at 60, she kills you at 70 from a fast, low-profiling tilt. And if she misses that you have to avoid a million needle confirms until 130 where she finally might struggle to kill until 180.

Sheik struggles to kill when you’re bad with her. In practice, at high level, Sheik has an easier time killing you than Wolf or Palutena.

lets try to not overstate what happened at summit.
void got second in his pool and then in bracket was sent to losers in his first game and then beat aaron and charlieking two players most people would expect void to beat.

you cannot base a gamplan for consistency on landing edge guards, and i wouldnt put shiek as an elite edgegaurd character. elite edge trapper maybe. but not guarding.

" she kills you at 70 from a fast, low-profiling tilt" I'm sorry what? Are you confusing shiek with pre patch pichu?

Im genuinely asking are these needle confirms as strong as youi are implying? are they DI dependent? from everything ive seen from shiek over ultimate she has issues killing almost like a bayo does.
There's no way shiek has an easier time killing than wolf or palutena. thats just a reach and a half. Theres no normal in shieks kit approaching a wolf ftilt or bair or palutena's... anything. palutena's bair is better than some entire characters in this game.

 

[NairWizard]

My thoughts on Sheik have nothing to do with Summit; I just don't think that Sheik has any issues killing in particular. I do think that Sheik has other problems--for example, she has a hard time getting out of the corner.

It is super hard to hit top players with a raw kill move in neutral. It does happen, but it requires a lot of conditioning. Wolf b-air is a great move, but to open an opponent up for a b-air you have to get them to stop respecting Wolf when he drifts in facing away. How do you do that? There's no low n-air mixup since n-air's hitbox from behind isn't so good, and there's no f-air or blaster to worry about (not that you'd worry about blaster anyway at kill percent). It's just a toss up between Wolf landing and grabbing and Wolf b-airing. This is a fine mixup and you'll see it done plenty, but b-air has 44 total frames, so this isn't exactly low-risk for the Wolf (-10/11 on shield).

Luckily for Wolf (and for Palutena, who is a bit more complicated to talk about so I've chosen to focus on Wolf here), there are opportunities to kill off ledgetrapping, but Sheik doesn't need that luck. Sheik can kill you from totally safe moves that have almost no risk for the Sheik player. What these kill setups lack in consistency, they make up for in sheer quantity. And what really holds this kit together is that Sheik can easily condition you into getting hit by one of her confirms by trying for another one (avoiding the drag-down up-air? you're just getting dash d-tilted repeatedly in neutral).

Let's take a look at kills in a Summit set since you brought up Summit. I've chosen the Marss vs. Void set here for a few reasons:

• Void lost the set, so he didn't just outskill his opponent
• ZSS is generally pretty hard to kill, since you can't catch her and she's hard to edgeguard.
• Marss is great at conditioning and not getting conditioned, and he played the set well in that regard

Here are Void's kills in the set (for a total of 9 kills):

1. Marss dies at 85% pre-hit, from Needles to d-tilt to drag down up-air to up-smash: https://youtu.be/YEJVtCvmgv4?t=130
2. Void tries to d-tilt like 4 times in neutral (unpunished, because it's hard to punish a move that's so low to the ground) and then gets an f-smash read on the conditioned drift in at 98 pre-hit: https://youtu.be/YEJVtCvmgv4?t=169
3. A slight mistake/overcommitment in disadvantage by Marss, in which he lands on shield with Bouncing Fish and gets up-smashed, so don't count that as a Sheik confirm, but it's at 91%.
4. Marss dies at 78% because Sheik catches his bounce on Yoshi's. If I'm being totally reasonable/fair, you could also count this as a mistake, so I won't link it, but still worth noting just how hard Sheik can punish mistakes like this from trivially constructed positions.
5. https://youtu.be/YEJVtCvmgv4?t=346 Void d-tilts, low profiling ZSS' b-air, and then f-tilts into double up-air confirms at 82 pre-hit. Yoshi's certainly helps here, but even Mario and Brawler aren't getting this started from a safe d-tilt into f-tilt on reaction.
6. Marss dies at 130 pre-hit to drag down d-smash on platform: https://youtu.be/YEJVtCvmgv4?t=607
7. Void hits a b-air pretty late percent here (130+): https://youtu.be/YEJVtCvmgv4?t=690
8. Needles bouncing fish at 112: https://youtu.be/YEJVtCvmgv4?t=868
9. Rage Sheik fails to kill with an f-smash that doesn't fully connect, then somehow Marss gets hit by a Vanish.

And that's the set.
Yes, Void lost, but across all of Void's kills, not once in the entire set did ZSS live past 130, and she only lived past 112 twice. You know who did live past 130? Sheik.

Here she is dying at 177 to an up-throw: https://youtu.be/YEJVtCvmgv4?t=977


Sheik is good at killing because it's really hard to punish her for going for her kill moves. This isn't Inkling up-throw up-air, which has more consistency in the window but is more punishable if Inkling whiffs a dashgrab. You are playing Sheik's game at kill percents. Fortunately, Sheik has other weaknesses that prevent her from being oppressive, and she ends up dying pretty early herself.

are they DI dependent?

While DI-independent kill confirms are categorically strong, DI-dependent kill confirms can also be strong if you have ways to condition your opponent into DIng poorly. This is the only reason Byleth even works as a character.

 

[Thinkaman]

Eim didn't have trouble killing most of Seibugeki yesterday. Most of his stocks taken (that I saw) did not go to high %s. If nothing else, uair was his "consistency" killer after all gimps fails.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Also Eim won neutral like twice, combo’d ProtoBanham’s Min Min to the opposite side of the stage and then got a Fair into Bouncing Fish at 70% and Min Min died, shown here. “Sheik can’t kill” is a meme and those that post it are looking for internet points.

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[The_Bookworm]

Also Eim won neutral like twice, combo’d ProtoBanham’s Min Min to the opposite side of the stage and then got a Fair into Bouncing Fish at 70% and Min Min died, shown here. “Sheik can’t kill” is a meme and those that post it are looking for internet points.

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To be fair, in this specific context, Eim was aided by the Town & City platform being at the right position for the combo into Bouncing Fish to work.

But yeah, the "Sheik can't KO" thing is definitely a bit overblown.

 

[Thinkaman]

Bassmage has been looking especially nice today. Yet there also seems to be a lot of obvious room for further optimization? There have been a lot of extra opportunities for stocks Bassmage could have taken with Top 10 player level consistency or read accuracy.

And Scend is just wild as usual.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Bassmage has been looking especially nice today. Yet there also seems to be a lot of obvious room for further optimization? There have been a lot of extra opportunities for stocks Bassmage could have taken with Top 10 player level consistency or read accuracy.

And Scend is just wild as usual.

Was going to comment on that, but double-posting can be obnoxious at times.

At the same time, I feel that there are also some obvious signs that the opponents didn't know the matchup too well.
Take his set vs Larry Lurr: Larry got the right idea with the DK counterpick and was doing well at first, but he was choosing the wrong opportunities to go for grabs and he could've been spacing out with back airs more often. I also feel like Falco would be a better pick than either Wolf or DK due to his own aerial capabilities and up tilt doing a good job of snagging Puff in the air.

Funnily enough, I still remember Larry getting clocked by Captain L's Puff towards the end of SSB4, and I doubt he has fought a good Puff in years. He might need to look further into this.

Either way, BassMage is moving on in the SWT, featuring a pretty close set vs moxi. Now he has to fight SKITTLES!!, who he lost to 3-1 in pools, so that will be something to see.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Results for SWT NA West

1. MVD
2. Scend
3. moxi
4. SKITTLES!
5. BassMage
6. Kiyarash
7. Exodia
7. Ludo
9. T3 DOM
9. Ronnichu
9. Justice
9. Larry Lurr
13. JoJoDaHoBo
13. Domnique
13. CodeX
13. Erik

 

[SwagGuy99]

Results for Edgeguard, WINNER! #3, and Pinnacle

Edgeguard Top 8

1. Lui$
2. Goblin
3. Sonix
4. MFA
5. Ven
5. Kreeg
7. Splash Daddy
7. Nito

WINNER! #3 Top 8

1. KEN
2. Shuton
3. Nietono
4. Tsu
5. Paseriman
5. Kept
7. Eim
7. HIKARU

Pinnacle Top 16

1. Ouch!?
2. Grape
3. Big D
4. JW
5. Lemmon
5. Blacktwins
7. Riddles
7. Tickle
9. Pacstreet
9. Grade
9. H4DS
9. NadiA
13. Capsize
13. Captain L
13. Everest
13. Spamcop

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Top 32 seeding for Super Smash Con Fall Fest.

1. ESAM
2. Sparg0
3. Dabuz
4. Maister
5. Marss
6. Light
7. Camorific (I think this is just an error)
8. Kola
9. Elegant
10. Cosmos
11. Riddles
12. naitosharp
13. WaDi
14. BigBoss
15. Aaron
16. Dark Wizzy
17. MVD
18. LingLing
19. Kurama
20. Lima
21. Tilde
22. Puppeh
23. KirbyKid
24. yonni
25. Zomba
26. Mistake
27. AxiomXL
28. Suarez
29. PinkFresh
30. Jakal
31. JohnNumbers
32. ApolloKage

Players who are not top 32 seed - DM , colinies , Grayson , Beast , IcyMist .

Outside of MkLeo, Tweek and Goblin not coming, this is probably the most stacked super major since Frostbite, looking even more stacked then Riptide.

 

[Nekoo]

Top 32 seeding for Super Smash Con Fall Fest.

1. Tweek
2. ESAM
3. Sparg0
4. Dabuz
5. Maister
6. Marss
7. Light
8. Shuton (He said he wasn't going a month ago, don't know if that's changed)
9. Kola
10. Elegant
11. Cosmos
12. Riddles
13. naitosharp
14. WaDi
15. BigBoss
16. Aaron
17. Dark Wizzy
18. MVD
19. LingLing
20. Kurama
21. Lima
22. Tilde
23. Puppeh
24. KirbyKid
25. yonni
26. Zomba
27. Mistake
28. AxiomXL
29. Suarez
30. PinkFresh
31. Jakal
32. ApolloKage

Players who are not top 32 seed - DM , colinies , Grayson , Beast , IcyMist .

Outside of MkLeo and Goblin not coming, this is probably the most stacked super major since Frostbite, looking even more stacked then Riptide.

The fact that Leo is not coming actually make it exciting.
Not to trash on him, he's my favorite player.

But now, if you ask me what's gonna be the top 8?All of the top 20 seeded can make it without having Leo, the destroyer of Bracket and God of looser run.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Someone did a little video comparison on the Mushroom Kingdom platform to tell what weight is.

He seems to have the same weight as , around 85 units. Not quite as light as I expected.


Btw, the new stock icon looks noticeably better than the last one, which I appreciate.
However, the Joker school alt stock icon and the Steve alts stock icon (Alex, Zombie, Enderman) are invisible to me. I cleared my cache numerous times, but it is not fixed. Not a big deal since I doubt I will use any of them, but does anyone know a solution?

 

[MasterCheef]

This is a fun, silly topic

great work


So, Thinkaman trusts official height and weight (5' 9", 187 lbs) more than most game stats. Most are old, debatably non-canon, or just obviously wrong afterthoughts. I'm going to use Ryu as my baseline, 187 lbs = 103 smash-weight.

If smash's "weight" is linear, that means:
is 214 lbs
is 194 lbs
is 192 lbs
and are both 189 lbs

is 178 lbs
are both 174 lbs, which I leave without further comment
and are both 170 lbs; those big heads sure are dense (Toon Link is 165 too)
is169 lbs, suspect
is 161 lbs, also suspect
is 160 lbs, super suspect
is 158 lbs, even though he is supposed to be 107 lbs! In Smash 4 weight, he would have been 149 lbs.
is 147 lbs, less than she supposedly is.
is 143 lbs, about 75% of what he probably should

is 153 lbs, while is 142 lbs; Zelda's thick dress and giant jewelry being 11 lbs more actually is pretty reasonable.

is 145 lbs while is 196 lbs... much more questionable. The Power Suit is supposedly 200 lbs in canon, not 50. Samus herself was supposed to be 190 lbs, but the ZSS character redesign kind of killed that notion.

is 185 lbs, much less than his 230 in canon though nothing as bad as Samus.

is 156 lbs, way more than a dog (or duck) of that size should weight.

is 143 lbs, versus a canon value of just 13. But then you remember that Pikachu is also only supposed to be 16 inches tall, and the Smash Pikachu is scaled up 2.25x to a size that rivals the biggest breeds of dogs. (Much chunkier than Duck Hunt!) At this size, his canonical weight would be 148 lbs, making Pikachu's weight actually one of the most reasonable on the roster. Similar calculations apply to Jigglypuff.

is 211 lbs, very close to his canon value.

meanwhile is 140 lbs, a huge difference from his canonical value of 269. But I suppose if you describe it as 16% of a Steelix, it's not that low. Greninja is also half the weight he is supposed to be, and Ivysaur's canonical weight is just stupid. The point is, Pokedex weight were guessed by a 10-year old and don't matter.

is 192 lbs; if you scaled up the actual real-life ROB 7.5x times, it would weight more than 2000 lbs. It's a rather dense toy! Our version could be made of much lighter materials, but also needs, uh, rockets, fuel, and lasers.

is 231 lbs, which is probably half the weight a male gorilla of his size should have.
tops us out at 245 lbs, also comically low even after his weight ballooned in every version of Smash.

Thinkaman's conclusion: Most the weights work out surprisingly well, but "weight" seems to almost be a sort of "density" that excludes height. All the tall characters--heavy or light--have lower weight values than guessing their pure mass would suggest. (And short characters, especially humanoids, have more.) When you add in that gravity itself is not only strange but different for each character, the very notion of "weight" as it is to us becomes sort of funky.

 

[Sucumbio]

However, the Joker school alt stock icon and the Steve alts stock icon (Alex, Zombie, Enderman) are invisible to me. I cleared my cache numerous times, but it is not fixed. Not a big deal since I doubt I will use any of them, but does anyone know a solution?

Same here, clearing cache didn't work... Maybe Warchamp7 is working on them?

 

[Warchamp7]

Same here, clearing cache didn't work... Maybe Warchamp7 is working on them?

I broke them when adding Sora. It's on my to do list to fix

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Tweek's dropped out of Super Smash Con so seeding has changed.

IMPORTANT CHANGE FOR ULT @ SSC:

Due to Tweek not being able to attend on top of lots of progression/seeding bugs found last night, seeding has been adjusted & bracket has been re-published.

Feedback has been extended until tomorrow (Wednesday) 12PM EST.https://t.co/bu63po8lbj

— Cagt (@Cagt3000) October 13, 2021

ESAM is now 1st seed, but he has a really difficult bracket of going against the winner of Dark Wizzy vs MVD, then the winner of Elegant vs Kola if he gets past those two and then the winner of Marss vs Maister.

My personal predictions now are that Sparg0 or Maister have the highest chances of winning the tournament.

 

[NairWizard]

Well, if there were ever a tournament rigged as a litmus test to prove whether a character is top tier or not, this is that tournament, for Pikachu. If ESAM can win this tournament against Marss, Maister, Elegant, Dark Wizzy, Dabuz, and Sparg0, Pikachu really might have a compelling claim for top tier. Those are some radically difficult matchups. We've seen Byleth overcome some radically difficult matchups; can Pikachu now do the same?

 

[Arthur97]

Well, if there were ever a tournament rigged as a litmus test to prove whether a character is top tier or not, this is that tournament, for Pikachu. If ESAM can win this tournament against Marss, Maister, Elegant, Dark Wizzy, Dabuz, and Sparg0, Pikachu really might have a compelling claim for top tier. Those are some radically difficult matchups. We've seen Byleth overcome some radically difficult matchups; can Pikachu now do the same?

Thing is, even with Leo doing that, no one seems to think the Byleths are top tier anyway so...