Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Hydreigonfan01]

New update to Orion Stats

OrionStats - Smash Ultimate 2021 TTS (Updated December 25th)

TTS Page & Character Results - Phase 4 Tournaments,Region ,Date,Category,Point Total,Notes,Overall Score - Category 1-5,International Score - Category 3-5,Regional Score - Category 1-2 <a href="https://smash.gg/tournament/mainstage-2021/event/ultimate-singles/brackets/1028047/1617341">Mainstage ...

docs.google.com

Not much really changed here, other than a few things.

• Pyra/Mythra's results are going up fast now, they were originally the lowest FP2 character in terms of results, and now they're the second highest only below Sephiroth. I expect them to increase even further for Summit and Riptide (Especially if both Sparg0 and Cosmos are going to Summit).
• Wolf, ZSS and Palutena's results when up slightly from before, showing how the nerfs hasn't really hurt Palu or ZSS and Palutena is also enjoying Chag's huge success after he grinded for over a year and a half.
• The gap between ROB and Roy has now gotten higher rather than lower. Looking unlikely for Roy to take the #1 spot.

Lastly, results for Warlock In The Hex Invitational.

1. Chag
2. BigBoss
3. Maister
4. Cloudy
5. Javi
5. Bestia
7. Pain
7. kohza
9. Pineda
9. Nalga
9. Hyuga
9. Law

 

[Rizen]

I more or less told you all that Tweek picking up Diddy meant Diddy is once again a Top Tier character in Smash. Where can I watch these sets of his ?

Buffs matter and there are a lot of characters who don't like the fact that was buffed and has become prevalent. It's not just Tweek but several players contributing to his score like Aaron. As I said a while ago, it's real easy to dismiss buffs until a top player like Tweek picks up the character. From what I've seen Diddy is some characters' worst MU. Diddy also appreciates the nerfs to Palutena, Joker etc.

There are a handful of characters who possibly got buffed into top tier . Falco and Corrin are easy to rule out; they haven't done nearly enough to be considered top tier. YL has done better but is still lacking in results although I do believe if a top player picked him up he could do much better. Right now Skittles is probably his best rep.
But then there's Cloud and Diddy. Spargo has had a huge jump in results since Cloud's buffs even before picking up Pythra. Cloud got significant buffs including a faster Usmash and making his limit charge faster. I feel like Cloud could be top tier except Spargo's the only player doing really well with him. Diddy very well could be top tier in the weakened environment post nerfs to a lot of them. The gap between top and high tiers has shrunk. I see either of them as top tier as a real possibility.

 

[DJ3DS]

New update to Orion Stats

OrionStats - Smash Ultimate 2021 TTS (Updated December 25th)

TTS Page & Character Results - Phase 4 Tournaments,Region ,Date,Category,Point Total,Notes,Overall Score - Category 1-5,International Score - Category 3-5,Regional Score - Category 1-2 <a href="https://smash.gg/tournament/mainstage-2021/event/ultimate-singles/brackets/1028047/1617341">Mainstage ...

docs.google.com

Not much really changed here, other than a few things.

• Pyra/Mythra's results are going up fast now, they were originally the lowest FP2 character in terms of results, and now they're the second highest only below Sephiroth. I expect them to increase even further for Summit and Riptide (Especially if both Sparg0 and Cosmos are going to Summit).
• Wolf, ZSS and Palutena's results when up slightly from before, showing how the nerfs hasn't really hurt Palu or ZSS and Palutena is also enjoying Chag's huge success after he grinded for over a year and a half.
• The gap between ROB and Roy has now gotten higher rather than lower. Looking unlikely for Roy to take the #1 spot.

Lastly, results for Warlock In The Hex Invitational.

1. Chag
2. BigBoss
3. Maister
4. Cloudy
5. Javi
5. Bestia
7. Pain
7. kohza
9. Pineda
9. Nalga
9. Hyuga
9. Law

Did BigBoss take a set off Maister here? That would be pretty huge given G&W is regularly perceived to be a significant loss for ROB. Are VoDs available?

 

[Game7a1]

Did BigBoss take a set off Maister here? That would be pretty huge given G&W is regularly perceived to be a significant loss for ROB. Are VoDs available?

Here are the detailed results of the invitational. Maister lost to Law (a Luigi player) in pools and Chag in Loser's Finals. He never faced BigBoss, but BigBoss did beat Chag in Winner's Finals.
Maister, on the other hand, beat Javi and Cloudy before losing to Chag (ignore the DQ in the bracket; Chag won 3-0), And it seems like the event was streamed here.

 

[toonito]

New update to Orion Stats

OrionStats - Smash Ultimate 2021 TTS (Updated December 25th)

TTS Page & Character Results - Phase 4 Tournaments,Region ,Date,Category,Point Total,Notes,Overall Score - Category 1-5,International Score - Category 3-5,Regional Score - Category 1-2 <a href="https://smash.gg/tournament/mainstage-2021/event/ultimate-singles/brackets/1028047/1617341">Mainstage ...

docs.google.com

Not much really changed here, other than a few things.

• Pyra/Mythra's results are going up fast now, they were originally the lowest FP2 character in terms of results, and now they're the second highest only below Sephiroth. I expect them to increase even further for Summit and Riptide (Especially if both Sparg0 and Cosmos are going to Summit).
• Wolf, ZSS and Palutena's results when up slightly from before, showing how the nerfs hasn't really hurt Palu or ZSS and Palutena is also enjoying Chag's huge success after he grinded for over a year and a half.
• The gap between ROB and Roy has now gotten higher rather than lower. Looking unlikely for Roy to take the #1 spot.

Lastly, results for Warlock In The Hex Invitational.

1. Chag
2. BigBoss
3. Maister
4. Cloudy
5. Javi
5. Bestia
7. Pain
7. kohza
9. Pineda
9. Nalga
9. Hyuga
9. Law

biggest orionstats jump from last data (7/27): +11 from #39 to #28
biggest orionstats drop from last data (7/27): -7 from #27 to #34

 

[Deathcarter]

Thread is dead at the moment so here is a Yoshi matchup chart Suarez posted:

My Updated Yoshi MU Chart!

- I think he has 6-11 losing MUs
- Tiers ordered from hardest to easiest
- Yoshi nice pic.twitter.com/UqFDZXLvE0

— Suarez (@SuarezYoshi) August 9, 2021

Pretty optimistic outside of swordie matchups.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Buffs matter and there are a lot of characters who don't like the fact that was buffed and has become prevalent. It's not just Tweek but several players contributing to his score like Aaron. As I said a while ago, it's real easy to dismiss buffs until a top player like Tweek picks up the character. From what I've seen Diddy is some characters' worst MU. Diddy also appreciates the nerfs to Palutena, Joker etc.

There are a handful of characters who possibly got buffed into top tier . Falco and Corrin are easy to rule out; they haven't done nearly enough to be considered top tier. YL has done better but is still lacking in results although I do believe if a top player picked him up he could do much better. Right now Skittles is probably his best rep.
But then there's Cloud and Diddy. Spargo has had a huge jump in results since Cloud's buffs even before picking up Pythra. Cloud got significant buffs including a faster Usmash and making his limit charge faster. I feel like Cloud could be top tier except Spargo's the only player doing really well with him. Diddy very well could be top tier in the weakened environment post nerfs to a lot of them. The gap between top and high tiers has shrunk. I see either of them as top tier as a real possibility.

You're on the right track here bro, and results also don't lie. Tweek, as well as others have been doing great with Diddy, Japan is also making the character work. I feel he might also be indeed the worst matchup for certain characters, as Palutena, ZSS, Joker, maybe Pyra / Mythra and possibly others. His design in general is just effective in Smash, always has been. Previous patches kind of made Diddy unrewarding to play, he's highly technical, Tweek goes on to say he's the most technical character in Ultimate even. And it's not like Tweek needs his Sephiroth either to help his Diddy, he's been going solo Diddy for a while despite claiming Sephiroth is a better character.

I feel Young Link is also underrated, but indeed needs a top player to make a true impression. With time, I believe this will happen. I do see the character pop up more in Japan though, so maybe keep an eye out for their players? Cloud is doing great too yeah, but another character I feel might rise is Mewtwo, WaDi is making the character put in work, despite also maining the obviously very strong R.O.B.

Slowly but surely the Top Tiers of Smash 4 are making a come back. It's quite nice to see, as I feel many where overly nerfed in the beginning, especially Diddy, Sheik and Mewtwo

 

[StrangeKitten]

Slowly but surely the Top Tiers of Smash 4 are making a come back. It's quite nice to see, as I feel many where overly nerfed in the beginning, especially Diddy, Sheik and Mewtwo

And it's worth mentioning that these three received substantial buffs in at least one patch!

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

OrionStats - Smash Ultimate 2021 TTS (Updated December 25th)

TTS Page & Character Results - Phase 4 Tournaments,Region ,Date,Category,Point Total,Notes,Overall Score - Category 1-5,International Score - Category 3-5,Regional Score - Category 1-2 <a href="https://smash.gg/tournament/mainstage-2021/event/ultimate-singles/brackets/1028047/1617341">Mainstage ...

docs.google.com

OrionStats slightly updated itself again.

• Pyra/Mythra's rise in the rankings continues, they're now top 25.
• Palutena is now top 3 alongside ROB and Roy.
• Joker is now top 6.
• Captain Falcon is falling off a bit, being beaten by Snake.
• Pikachu, Min and G&W are tied at #32.

 

[Gleam]

has also made a massive jump from what I believe was #57 to #48. You know I wasn't too sure if the buffs Rool got would really push him to Mid Tier. But with results like this, I may be eating my words. Put a bit more effort in and maybe one really good patch. And we may get that beast of K. Rool we first envisioned at the start of his introduction video.

 

[KirbySquad101]

From what I can tell, KirbyKid's been making quite a splash in his region.

Most notably, he placed first in Anime Houston 2021, losing early on 0-2 against Goblin, but went to go on a 9-win streak soon after. In his streak, he 3-2'd BluStriker , 3-0'd Gidy (who sent Goblin to losers), 3-2'd Brr(who eliminated both Goblin and MuteAce from the tournament), 3-2'd EpicGabriel , 3-2'd Kobe in Grand Finals, and then 3-1'd him in the reset.

Here is the vod for the entire tournament:

For reference on where his matches start:

1st Vod:

vs. Goblin (Roy) - 7:41:09

2nd Vod:

vs. BluStriker (Sonic) - 1:01:58
vs. Gidy (Chrom, Roy, Sephiroth) - 2:08:32
vs. Brr (Kazuya) - 2:49:53
vs. Epic_Gabriel (ROB) - 3:11:35
vs. Kobe (Young Link) - 3:32:04
vs. Kobe (Young Link) - 3:48:14

On a side note, the fact that Kazuya's playerbase is as small as it is, and he's already making these levels of upsets even WITHOUT Top 20 players is.... it's kinda scary lol.

 

[Damned1]

Speaking of , he had another good result the same day (actually before Anime Houston 2021 concluded):

Congratulations to the Winners of Smash Contest: DoKomi 2021!

🏆 @7Oryon 🇫🇷
🥈 @LancelotSSB 🇫🇮
🥉 @HIVE_DarkT 🇩🇪
🏅 @Jaka_SSB 🇨🇭
🎖️ @BaseBeJay 🇳🇱
🎖️ @Raphy_Lux 🇩🇪
🔸 @tarikwastaken 🇩🇪
🔸 @mYiDestany 🇨🇭

August 7th-8th 2021
Düsseldorf, Germany 🇩🇪
318 Attendees
Graphic: @yungaegi pic.twitter.com/Uwt3Bbah2b

— Smash Contest (@SmashContest) August 11, 2021

Raphy made it through the bracket with 318 ppl to 5th place, beating Rinor ( ) Tarik (went game 1 and then ) and Youssef () on his way, losing to Lancelot (2nd place ) and Jaka (4th place ).

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Results for MSM 238.

1. Sparg0
2. Elegant
3. Charliedaking
4. Tyranks
5. AC
5. Kyros
7. Glug
7. Razo

Now, people here claim that Sparg0 mostly use Pyra more than Mythra, but I think that it specifically depends on the matchup. Against faster characters and zoners, he uses Mythra more but against a character like G&W who struggles with characters such as Ike and Shulk, he plays Pyra due to the larger hitboxes and ability to kill G&W very early. IMO that is the more optimal way of playing the character rather than just relying on Mythra that Cosmos is doing, you've got to use both to your advantage.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about.

In this set we get to see much more of Sparg0's Mythra against Kyros then he did against Maister back at Cherry Glasmine 001.

 

[Sucumbio]

Results for MSM 238.

1. Sparg0
2. Elegant
3. Charliedaking
4. Tyranks
5. AC
5. Kyros
7. Glug
7. Razo

Now, people here claim that Sparg0 mostly use Pyra more than Mythra, but I think that it specifically depends on the matchup. Against faster characters and zoners, he uses Mythra more but against a character like G&W who struggles with characters such as Ike and Shulk, he plays Pyra due to the larger hitboxes and ability to kill G&W very early. IMO that is the more optimal way of playing the character rather than just relying on Mythra that Cosmos is doing, you've got to use both to your advantage.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about.

In this set we get to see much more of Sparg0's Mythra against Kyros then he did against Maister back at Cherry Glasmine 001.

Kyros got greedy but could have taken game 3 ah well but pythra is insane those huge hit boxes and she's so fast.... Everything gets punished and she keeps you in disadvantage forever.

 

[Nobie]

Gorioka, a primarily Joker main, got 1st at Tamisuma in an online 256-player bracket going mostly Mewtwo but also playing a bunch of other characters along the way. Notably, he beat Rizeasu's Greninja in grand finals entirely as Mewtwo.

https://twitter.com/sameki1024/status/1425820042902396945?s=19

【スマブラSP】タミスマSP296 決勝戦 ゴリオカ(ミュウツー) VS りぜあす(ゲッコウガ) - オンライン大会

【SSBU】Tamisuma 296 Finals Gorioka(Mewtwo) VS Rizeasu(Greninja) - Smash Ultimate Online【スマブラSP】第296回タミスマSP大会(2021/08/12開催) - オンライン大会▼大会結果[参加者256名] | Result[Ab...

youtu.be

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Seeding for Ultimate WANTED 3

1. Glutonny
2. Mr. R
3. Leon
4. Fatality
5. Ogey
6. Larry Lurr
7. Oryon
8. Space
9. Raflow
10. Flow
11. Homika
12. iStudying
13. TriM
14. Lancelot
15. PeW
16. Greil

 

[Lacrimosa]

Seeding for Ultimate WANTED 3

1. Glutonny
2. Mr. R
3. Leon
4. Fatality
5. Ogey
6. Larry Lurr
7. Oryon
8. Space
9. Raflow
10. Flow
11. Homika
12. iStudying
13. TriM
14. Lancelot
15. PeW
16. Greil

Quite a few upsets happened as well.
Leon, Larry Lurr, Homika and PeW are already in losers for tomorrow's top 64, alongside some other really good French players not in the top 16 seed.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So Cosmos and MkLeo had a conversation on Pythra

Call me crazy but I'm starting to think Pyra/Mythra are as good as Joker

— Cosmos (@CosmosZR) August 15, 2021

Definitely, eagis top 3 easily

— LG | MkLeo (@Mkleosb) August 15, 2021

Honestly, as someone who is maining them myself, I'm starting to agree. Especially with their gradual rise on OrionStats compared to Min Min, Sephiroth or Steve, who started off strong and then went stagnant or went down.

 

[SKX31]

My only question is whether this run is sustainable for once there have been more full-scale tournaments, but those are some promising results still. Especially KirbyKid's run - those results show that the character is more adaptable than what a cursory glance may suggest.

Also, Ultimate WANTED's Top 8:

WB:

Glutonny vs. Fatality
Mr. R vs. Noxumbra

LB:

Flow vs. Mezcaul
Neeroz vs. eMass


Quite a few upsets and early exits here (both Leon and Larry Lurr are out, the latter having eliminated the former before falling to Mezcaul). In fact, half the players in this Top 8 (Noxumbra, eMass, Mezcaul and Neeroz) have secured their first respective Top 8 placings at an offline major AFAIK (based on some quick searches on SSBWiki).

 

[Cheryl~]

https://twitter.com/LoopBarnard/status/1426927602162356234?s=20

it turns out eMass's run at Ultimate Wanted is the single best run from a Middle Eastern player at any major. This is even more impressive considering eMass was seeded outside of the top 150 and managed to get 5th at the tournament, absolutely insane. I love seeing more international areas getting their spotlight and this may be what the Middle East scene needs to be better known.

 

[KirbySquad101]

I do want to give my thoughts on KirbyKid's breakout performance later, because there's honestly some great takeaways to be made from both his playstyle and King K. Rool himself.

Also let it be known that we have both a Ridley and Richter in Top 8 at a Category 4 tournament. Between this, KirbyKid's win, and Ven and Bassmage placing Top 2 at Smash: Reach, the gap's only going to get smaller between characters at this point forward.

Makes me excited to see how these players will continue on going forward, and it really makes me excited to see how Atomsk will handle the best at Summit 3!

 

[The_Bookworm]

Btw, I haven't really seen much of lately.

Well.. sort of. The character is EVERYWHERE online and in lower levels of play.

Over two months ago, we got a few somewhat promising placements offline.
Jake's performance at InfinityCON Tally 2021 (June 5th-6th) where he placed 9th beating ChunkyKong, Goblin, and Mugen.
DDee's performance at Maji Georgia Invitational (June 19th-20th) where he placed 4th beating Fatality (though Fatality won later), Wrath, Mugen, and Vendetta.

However ever since then, two months later, there has been dead silence on this character. There has been fairly sparse online major tournaments lately, and I haven't really seen much of the character there either.

Any thoughts?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Btw, I haven't really seen much of lately.

Well.. sort of. The character is EVERYWHERE online and in lower levels of play.

Over two months ago, we got a few somewhat promising placements offline.
Jake's performance at InfinityCON Tally 2021 (June 5th-6th) where he placed 9th beating ChunkyKong, Goblin, and Mugen.
DDee's performance at Maji Georgia Invitational (June 19th-20th) where he placed 4th beating Fatality (though Fatality won later), Wrath, Mugen, and Vendetta.

However ever since then, two months later, there has been dead silence on this character. There has been fairly sparse online major tournaments lately, and I haven't really seen much of the character there either.

Any thoughts?

Going off of Twitter, a lot of Steve players are young teens so it may be difficult for them to travel to big events.

Also I think the character may be the worst out of all of FP2, due to his poor mobility.

 

[TimG57867]

I do want to give my thoughts on KirbyKid's breakout performance later, because there's honestly some great takeaways to be made from both his playstyle and King K. Rool himself.

Also let it be know that we have both a Ridley and Richter in Top 8 at a Category 4 tournament. Between this, KirbyKid's win, and Ven and Bassmage placing Top 2 at Smash: Reach, the gap's only going to get smaller between characters at this point forward.

Makes me excited to see how these players will continue on going forward, and it really makes me excited to see how Atomsk will handle the best at Summit 3!

Can't talk about sleeper characters making big strides of late without mentioning Jesuischoq managing to get 25th at this tourney with solo .

This placing is a pretty big deal for the d'Kirby for a few reasons.

1. Kirby at this time was the only character to not have any points for this round of OrionStats. Unfortunate but given the strong performance of players like JeJaJeJa during the WiFi meta I was confident that this was less due to Kirby dropping in viability and more that the strong offline mains that started getting him on the board haven't had a chance to come out of hibernation from WiFi winter and this performance ended up proving that for me which is lovely.

2. Kirby being able to Top 32 a big major like this solo shows that a lot of the things that contributed to his best showings on WiFi can be translated to offline (if not be outright superior). Some could have tried to make a claim that a lot of Kirby's good showings at WiFi tournies would stay on WiFi but this helps show that just isn't the case. Assuming Jesuischoq stays on top of it (which he apparently has been) I expect him to continue to make performances like this at both local and major level. Speaking of which...

3. This is also Jesuischoq's first time partaking in a noteworthy tournament since October of 2020. While various WiFi Kirbies like JeJaJeJa and Ron got to shine, he kinda went dormant. I was a bit worried there would be some rust when he finally hit the sticks again but seeing how he got Top 32 and outplaced his 43 seed, it seems such concerns were completely uneeded. This also helps to back up his 129th spot on OrionRank as he outplaced many folks ranked higher than him on it like otakuni, griffith, mvl, tag, trim and PeW.


If Jesuischoq returns to regular tournament activity (assuming a certain little virus allows...) Kirby should be able to rack up more points in a fashion similar to other sleeper characters like . Even moreso if Ferretkuma can make come out of the WiFi hiatus and perform similarly in Japan.

For now though i am quite content with this showing as again I feel that Kirby being the one character with 0 points was a big disservice and more indicitive of some of his upper echelon players not being active atm (offline anyway) vs. back during the first few months of the game where is metagame quite veritably was not in the greatest spot.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Results for Ultimate Wanted 3.

1. Glutonny
2. Fatality
3. Mr. R
4. Noxumbra
5. eMass
5. Flow
7. Neeroz
7. Mezcaul
9. iStudying
9. Larry Lurr
9. Sintro
9. Ramses
13. Yass
13. Leon
13. Lancelot
13. Oryon
17. Greil
17. Eko
17. Irnel
17. Sisqui
17. TonyClakos
17. LeMonke
17. Hitox
17. MoDzai

 

[Gleam]

Orion was just updated, no doubt with the new results of "Wanted".

Both and have begun edging back up across the board, with Ridley specially jumping up 10+ spots since Phase 04 Orion began. For someone like Wii Fit Trainer, we're basically seeing the past repeat itself. WFT during the early days of Ultimate was barely able to get out of the Bottom 10 of results. Like, result wise, she sucked.

But then at some point, she grew, and grew, before reaching around the #40s, perhaps at times even upper #30s of Orion.

And here we have getting several Top 10s across 200+ and 500+ man tournaments. Solo Ridley's as far as I can tell (I'm judging basically just what the data sheets tell me.) It won't take long before Ridley and WFT, get right back to where they were before. And while I haven't said much on it, it's true that having a Richter in Top 5 is kind of amazing and these results really throw a wrench in the whole "These characters suck" category.

It really does show how certain characters can be pushed by the right players.

 

[SwagGuy99]

Dabuz and Myran both came out with their opinions on Olimar's matchups today. Their opinions differ pretty heavily.

Olimar is top tier, loses no MUs. Olimar players need to get better, including myself. Other characters are better due to more dominate MU spreads.

Not taking questions.

Dabuz definitely not agreeing with at least half this list. pic.twitter.com/LorguiMQp2

— Myran (@MyranSSB) August 16, 2021

Made this yesterday on stream, current thoughts on Olimar's MUs

Not answering questions

Ready for Myran to disagree with at least half of this list pic.twitter.com/Deh3TgKlmp

— Liquid | Dabuz (@DabuzSenpai) August 16, 2021

 

[toonito]

biggest jump in OrionStats since last data (8/9): Richter and Chrom = +10
biggest drop in OrionStats since last data (8/9): ZSS, Yoshi, Marth, Terry, Villager, Incineroar, and Jigglypuff = -4

 

[blackghost]

1. i dont think anyone has ever said they think aegis are bad people were just really impatient with results they are objectively a good chaarcter people jsust had to do the whole song and dance before arriving at the correct conclusion: yes you need to play both and in some matchups you use one more than the other.

2. steve is a character most people still really dont know what to do vs. i cant really call the chareacter a gimick as those setups are real but idk how well steve does vs other elite fast characters across the board.

3. i see leon only played lucina is that the same leon that has played bowser in the past? has he switched or was it a MU thing?

4. im reserving judgment on these lower tiers like k rool and Richter others before i see them vs elite compeition. i dont want to either jump the gun or dismiss them outright.

 

[StrangeKitten]

1. i dont think anyone has ever said they think aegis are bad people were just really impatient with results they are objectively a good chaarcter people jsust had to do the whole song and dance before arriving at the correct conclusion: yes you need to play both and in some matchups you use one more than the other.

2. steve is a character most people still really dont know what to do vs. i cant really call the chareacter a gimick as those setups are real but idk how well steve does vs other elite fast characters across the board.

3. i see leon only played lucina is that the same leon that has played bowser in the past? has he switched or was it a MU thing?

4. im reserving judgment on these lower tiers like k rool and Richter others before i see them vs elite compeition. i dont want to either jump the gun or dismiss them outright.

No, it's a different Leon.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Ultimate Summit 3's voting has ended, here are all the players so far. There is one left who wins MSM #240.

• MkLeo
• Tweek
• Zackray
• KEN
• Maister
• Marss
• Dabuz
• Dark Wizzy
• Sparg0
• Aaron
• VoiD
• Atomsk
• Riddles
• Kola
• Charliedaking

Notable players attending MSM #240

• Light
• Cosmos
• Fatality
• Larry Lurr
• Ned
• Lui$
• Chag
• Scend
• Myran
• Kurama/Prodigy
• Stroder
• NAKAT
• Ven

 

[Firox]

Dabuz and Myran both came out with their opinions on Olimar's matchups today. Their opinions differ pretty heavily.

Olimar is top tier, loses no MUs. Olimar players need to get better, including myself. Other characters are better due to more dominate MU spreads.

Not taking questions.

Dabuz definitely not agreeing with at least half this list. pic.twitter.com/LorguiMQp2

— Myran (@MyranSSB) August 16, 2021

Made this yesterday on stream, current thoughts on Olimar's MUs

Not answering questions

Ready for Myran to disagree with at least half of this list pic.twitter.com/Deh3TgKlmp

— Liquid | Dabuz (@DabuzSenpai) August 16, 2021

Olimar certainly has potential, but to claim zero losing MU's is a little damaging to credibility in my opinion.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Notable players attending MSM #240

• Light
• Cosmos
• Fatality
• Larry Lurr
• Ned
• Lui$
• Chag
• Scend
• Myran
• Kurama/Prodigy

MSM #240 is going to be a bloodbath.


Also...

• Atomsk

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

MSM 240 is looking to become a major.

A few more notable entrants and MSM 240 might end up as a major (cat 4) for OrionRank

— LG | EazyFreezie (@EazyFreezie) August 17, 2021

There's gonna be a lot of upsets for sure. People really want part of that $153K+ prize pool.
Edit: Riddles is unsure on Kazuya

no neutral all advantage state char which leads to inconsistency in important high level play. some mus are so undoable its pretty sadenning. rlly tried my hardest but i dunno who im gonna go at summit at this point tbh

— Liquid | Riddles (@RiddlesMK) August 18, 2021

Character will also become 100x worse when more people start doing this. Initially di'ing a certain direction then switching it last second ruins electric blue arrow combos and turns the combos into luck between di in or out rather than pure execution https://t.co/x8iyZ0itQE pic.twitter.com/5mPDHrLC6o

— Liquid | Riddles (@RiddlesMK) August 18, 2021

 

[blackghost]

MSM 240 is looking to become a major.

A few more notable entrants and MSM 240 might end up as a major (cat 4) for OrionRank

— LG | EazyFreezie (@EazyFreezie) August 17, 2021

There's gonna be a lot of upsets for sure. People really want part of that $153K+ prize pool.
Edit: Riddles is unsure on Kazuya

no neutral all advantage state char which leads to inconsistency in important high level play. some mus are so undoable its pretty sadenning. rlly tried my hardest but i dunno who im gonna go at summit at this point tbh

— Liquid | Riddles (@RiddlesMK) August 18, 2021

Character will also become 100x worse when more people start doing this. Initially di'ing a certain direction then switching it last second ruins electric blue arrow combos and turns the combos into luck between di in or out rather than pure execution https://t.co/x8iyZ0itQE pic.twitter.com/5mPDHrLC6o

— Liquid | Riddles (@RiddlesMK) August 18, 2021

After smash 4 you can't convince me that just becuase a di and knowledge of solution exists that people will use it. Even high on level players. Yes this stuff exists make people prove to you they will do it.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

Right even if they are DI’ing the move properly Kazuya just starts anticipating that and goes for something else. Even if your not losing you stock off a grab at zero your still eating a ridiculous amount of damage from a character that has no issues securing kills at low percentages let alone higher percentages. It’s also not like Kazuya doesn’t have a million other things he can go for over this bread and butter all the Kazuya players are getting too comfortable being the only thing they fish for.

Granted I do think Kazuya will have some bigger issues in some matchups than he’d like due to how he is designed but like, the character is still insane regardless if counterplay exists to what was becoming his default combo

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Okay but despite Kazuya's big strenghts he is going to have pretty lopsided MU's that wil be pretty common in competitive play. I mean what is he suppposed to even do in MU's like or . Once Sonic gets the lead he can just do Sonic things the entire set..and Min Min..she seems to be able utterly shut him down..

I think Riddles mindset is why should Kazuya over Terry. Who has high damage combos and explosive kill comfirms (With GO! active at least" But does not have the extreme weakness Kazuya has

 

[Gearkeeper-8a]

Matchup knowledge and counterplay is a rare thing in this game because of culture(main audience are inmadure kids and top players entice that behaviour), the main online platform that we use (twitter and reddit)is bad for sharing GOOD information, the roster is very big character wise so searching for good players to grind most Mu's are difficult, and bad trainning mode doesnt help too.

So is easier to ***** about the game or creo for buffs and nerfs.

We did this in smash 4, we are doing this in ultimate and we will do this in the next smash game.

I advice players to abuse matchup inexperience, because even if you character is inconsistent so is your opponent specially in this game.

 

[StoicPhantom]

If DI becomes integral to an MU like Smash 4 Bayonetta then I think top players will learn it. It was more all these situational DI that those players tended to consider not worth the investment.

I think the bigger issue is how Kazuya lands his starters. Even in his hyped wins I still felt like his players won off things their opponents didn't have to do and shouldn't have done. They were a good showcase of how good his comeback potential is, but they all felt too close for comfort. I can definitely see why Riddles has consistency issues and I feel like he may have been a little overhyped.

Certainly a difficult character to place that's for sure. I feel like there's more room for optimizing against him rather than for him, but I'm conflicted overall. I agree with every complaint RIddles has though.

 

[blackghost]

If DI becomes integral to an MU like Smash 4 Bayonetta then I think top players will learn it. It was more all these situational DI that those players tended to consider not worth the investment.

smash 4 was the only game i've seen were players universally agree on who the best character was and simultaneously agree that knowing how to optimally fight her was situational. That made no sense and ultimately led to excuses from lower level players as they imitated higher level players choosing to complain rather than adapt. Multiple players admitted to not knowing how to fight bayonetta one player was cosmos Its always worth the time to learn MUs vs the top tiers. smash as a scene needs to grow up.
only similair situation ive seen was phoienix in marvel 3 but then japan showed up at a major with 10 players that all had unique counters for her.
the fact an average character like bayo is still taking somewhat strong events and placements (paerticularily in europe is very telling) many people never learned to fight her.