Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Nah]

What makes/made Robin a bad MU for exactly?

 

[Rizen]

What makes/made Robin a bad MU for exactly?

's charged thunder works as an anti-projectile tool that can snipe and kill YL from across the stage. Uncharged thunder is about as fast as YL's fire arrows. His leven sword has much better hitboxes in the air and kills much earlier than YL. He used to out-button YL hard on the ground when YL had a f6 jab and Robin's was f4. So basically Robin had a good answer to YL's camping and won in CQC.

But like I was saying YL got some significant buffs. Zair is about as long as normal swords and his jab is now equal to Robin's (although Robin's can kill and YL's can't). So I theorize the MU is better now.

 

[Tri Knight]

Bottom line is, can theoretically brawl with the rest of them now as well as zone. His set ups are more kill potent, and his spacing game just became relevant (and scary). To the naked eye it may not seem like it but these buffs increased his versatility immensely. I won't call tiers but I'm telling you now, an optimal Young Link is destructive, like Teen Gohan vs Cell. The sauce was technically always there but it's spicy now.

 

[Thinkaman]

I often harp on about how people take too narrow of a slice of comeptitive play, ending up with something that is not representative of anything practical; that they would be better served to think in terms of top 1000 or 10,000 players, rather than pretend anyone outside the top 100 (or 10!) is irrelevant.

jiwas put together this excellent chart that I think hammers this home:

That's the main of the top-ranked player of each state, according to the last big data cycle. Many of these players, such as ESAM, have moved since then, and there are several other bits of outdated information, but whether North Carolina should be Lucas or Link is beside the point.

For the overwhelming majority of tournament-attending smash players, the world ends at the walls of these fiefdoms. And they aren't small--several cities in this day and age enjoy locals bigger than nationals when I started playing. And in these worlds, those characters listed are the de facto #1. People out there have 30 different de facto #1 characters, and that's just the US, and just at the state level. (Texas and California have dozens of equally independent communities as many entire states.)

We are blessed with awareness of what the combined world, the (inter)national scene, looks like. But this awareness should expand our perspective, not reduce it.

The top 100 is the center of the bullseye. It's okay to focus on the center of the bullseye; it's right to focus on the center of the bullseye. But focus is a very particular word here: It implies you are not trying to exclude the rest from your vision, but using that focal point as a point of leverage to see the entire picture as accurately as one can.

People on reddit and elsewhere are always getting caught up on this casual-vs-competitive party-game-vs-fighter false dichotomy that has existed since the mid 90s--the entire bullcrap that Smash was designed to rebuke. They talk as if there is just EVO top 8 and everything else is FFA items matches with your 8 year old cousins. Where does your random Alabama tournament-goer fit into all of this? The best player in his universe isn't MKLeo, it's ChillyChilli, some "random" Mario you've never heard of. (That could definitely beat you!) Where do top-performing online players fit in? What about serious players who have the audacity to play on stages that aren't """legal"""? And that's not even getting into other formats or items.

I like to think of Smash as--almost like that chart--a huge metaphorical nation of over 20 million players. "Tournament Mountain" is the tallest mountain, but don't overstate the scale: The continental US is 2800 miles across and the tallest mountains are barely 3 miles high. And like Mount Rainier, "Tournament Mountain" is not in the center of the nation, it's way off in the corner.

What it is, is the best vantage point to see everything else--if you choose to look outward.

 

[Megamang]

The way I see it, the centre of the bulls eye is just for answering questions. I have a related anecdote:

After reading this thread and watching tournaments, I was pretty happy... Snake's reign was over! Which is good, because Snake is really tough for me and causes me tons of problems. Then I went to Kumite, and well... There was a ton of snake. And I got bopped. I should have looked at more local matches, and generally gotten a feel for my scene vs the meta at the top.

That said, the best Snakes are certainly the data point. Top level players aren't losing to the same strategies. They give me insight, after all if it works on MVD it will probably work locally, most likely to greater effect.

I like the description of fiefdoms. As a microcosm of the entire internet age, we often forget that we aren't in twitter or reddit, we are in X location and that is what matters.

 

[NairWizard]

I watched the Leon vs. Kirby sets. In literally all of them I see Lucina approaching Kirby, for no discernible reason, and getting hit by f-air, whiffing due to crouches and getting d-tilted, and getting parried and whiff-punished. Kirby does better vs. swords than we typically give him credit for, but I really don't think Leon is playing the matchup right.

I think Lucina is one of the most tragic cases of "people need to learn how to camp" in the game, or maybe even smash history. I also think, as a corollary, that she's better than #12 or #13 on the tier list (top 5 material). Almost no one who currently plays her plays a sword zoning style at all. Protobanham is super hype but he's so aggressive. Mr. E is so aggressive. I haven't seen enough of Etsuji to know for sure.

Watch MKleo in his set vs. LarryLurr at MSM and just take note of how many defensive options he used. How much d-tilt, how much pivot f-tilt. It's so hard for Larry to do anything against all those safe movements. It feels suffocating--and that's not even MKLeo playing his best Lucina game.

Lucina's a really hard character to play if you're not heavy on sword zoning theory. She's misleading. She seems basic, because "yeah, huge arcs! I can swing at my opponent and if we swing at the same time I'll win! Time to GO IN!"

But really you need to play her like Marth, tipping everything as much as you can, and waiting for the last second. Especially in matchups where you outrange the opponent.

Neutral-heavy characters have the greatest fall-off in the interval between mid level and top level, I think. It's a lot easier to learn all the kill confirms with Wario and apply them to every matchup than it is to learn how to eke out minute advantages in neutral in over 70 matchups. Just using d-tilt more often instead of f-tilt makes a world of difference for a character like Lucina just because of how often she wins the neutral.

I mean, when I play Lucina, I usually take 60-70% damage every time I get hit, and only deal 20-30 or maybe 40% depending on my luck with ledge trapping--but I win neutral 2-3 times as often vs. almost everyone around my skill level and below, so she just feels very strong to me. I can imagine my playstyle translating to a top-level bracket and probably winning games, and sets, but I can also imagine a different high-level player with a different style struggling.

There is so much potential for major success in her design, in the right hands. I firmly believe that no one playing her right now has those hands.

 

[Nathan Richardson]

I think the main issue is this attitude "If they don't have projectiles with reach I can't camp them' while this has been proven wrong there are still players who believe it, plus a lot of the smash community don't really like camping.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

There is so much potential for major success in her design, in the right hands. I firmly believe that no one playing her right now has those hands.

ProtoBanham?

 

[DrKatz]

I watched the Leon vs. Kirby sets. In literally all of them I see Lucina approaching Kirby, for no discernible reason, and getting hit by f-air, whiffing due to crouches and getting d-tilted, and getting parried and whiff-punished. Kirby does better vs. swords than we typically give him credit for, but I really don't think Leon is playing the matchup right.

I think Lucina is one of the most tragic cases of "people need to learn how to camp" in the game, or maybe even smash history. I also think, as a corollary, that she's better than #12 or #13 on the tier list (top 5 material). Almost no one who currently plays her plays a sword zoning style at all. Protobanham is super hype but he's so aggressive. Mr. E is so aggressive. I haven't seen enough of Etsuji to know for sure.

Watch MKleo in his set vs. LarryLurr at MSM and just take note of how many defensive options he used. How much d-tilt, how much pivot f-tilt. It's so hard for Larry to do anything against all those safe movements. It feels suffocating--and that's not even MKLeo playing his best Lucina game.

Lucina's a really hard character to play if you're not heavy on sword zoning theory. She's misleading. She seems basic, because "yeah, huge arcs! I can swing at my opponent and if we swing at the same time I'll win! Time to GO IN!"

But really you need to play her like Marth, tipping everything as much as you can, and waiting for the last second. Especially in matchups where you outrange the opponent.

Neutral-heavy characters have the greatest fall-off in the interval between mid level and top level, I think. It's a lot easier to learn all the kill confirms with Wario and apply them to every matchup than it is to learn how to eke out minute advantages in neutral in over 70 matchups. Just using d-tilt more often instead of f-tilt makes a world of difference for a character like Lucina just because of how often she wins the neutral.

I mean, when I play Lucina, I usually take 60-70% damage every time I get hit, and only deal 20-30 or maybe 40% depending on my luck with ledge trapping--but I win neutral 2-3 times as often vs. almost everyone around my skill level and below, so she just feels very strong to me. I can imagine my playstyle translating to a top-level bracket and probably winning games, and sets, but I can also imagine a different high-level player with a different style struggling.

There is so much potential for major success in her design, in the right hands. I firmly believe that no one playing her right now has those hands.

I think this applies to a lot of matchups. But how does Lucina camp against a character with a decent projectile (which a lot of the top tiers have). She can parry or shield projectiles all day. But she’ll be forced to take the initiative.

 

[Arthur97]

I watched the Leon vs. Kirby sets. In literally all of them I see Lucina approaching Kirby, for no discernible reason, and getting hit by f-air, whiffing due to crouches and getting d-tilted, and getting parried and whiff-punished. Kirby does better vs. swords than we typically give him credit for, but I really don't think Leon is playing the matchup right.

I think Lucina is one of the most tragic cases of "people need to learn how to camp" in the game, or maybe even smash history. I also think, as a corollary, that she's better than #12 or #13 on the tier list (top 5 material). Almost no one who currently plays her plays a sword zoning style at all. Protobanham is super hype but he's so aggressive. Mr. E is so aggressive. I haven't seen enough of Etsuji to know for sure.

Watch MKleo in his set vs. LarryLurr at MSM and just take note of how many defensive options he used. How much d-tilt, how much pivot f-tilt. It's so hard for Larry to do anything against all those safe movements. It feels suffocating--and that's not even MKLeo playing his best Lucina game.

Lucina's a really hard character to play if you're not heavy on sword zoning theory. She's misleading. She seems basic, because "yeah, huge arcs! I can swing at my opponent and if we swing at the same time I'll win! Time to GO IN!"

But really you need to play her like Marth, tipping everything as much as you can, and waiting for the last second. Especially in matchups where you outrange the opponent.

Neutral-heavy characters have the greatest fall-off in the interval between mid level and top level, I think. It's a lot easier to learn all the kill confirms with Wario and apply them to every matchup than it is to learn how to eke out minute advantages in neutral in over 70 matchups. Just using d-tilt more often instead of f-tilt makes a world of difference for a character like Lucina just because of how often she wins the neutral.

I mean, when I play Lucina, I usually take 60-70% damage every time I get hit, and only deal 20-30 or maybe 40% depending on my luck with ledge trapping--but I win neutral 2-3 times as often vs. almost everyone around my skill level and below, so she just feels very strong to me. I can imagine my playstyle translating to a top-level bracket and probably winning games, and sets, but I can also imagine a different high-level player with a different style struggling.

There is so much potential for major success in her design, in the right hands. I firmly believe that no one playing her right now has those hands.

Though, I see one major issue with that, and that's the fact people don't seem to want to play that way. They already complain that she's "boring" and that supposedly hurt her representation. So, she may be amazing if you take it slower, but I unfortunately don't see that catching on anytime soon. Oh well, at least it might prevent her from getting nerfed again.

 

[NairWizard]

ProtoBanham?

I talked about him in my post. He's very good--the best Lucina in advantage for sure. But he's so aggressive. He's enjoyed a lot of success, but I think with the right playstyle Lucina could be pushed even further.

I think this applies to a lot of matchups. But how does Lucina camp against a character with a decent projectile (which a lot of the top tiers have). She can parry or shield projectiles all day. But she’ll be forced to take the initiative.

Sword zoning happens at a range where most projectiles are just too unsafe. For example, Wolf blaster lasts 52 frames. Lucina d-tilt lasts 23 frames; that's less than half as long. Wolf isn't going to blaster when you're d-tilt zoning. What blaster and other projectiles can do, though, is prevent you from using dash backs to control space between close and mid range. Dash attacks achieve roughly the same thing, but projectiles don't require a full-body commitment, so they're certainly useful for low-commitment conditioning. But they don't force Lucina to take initiative.

There are a few projectiles that allow the user to move with the projectile, like Mario's fireball and Pikachu's thunderjolt. These require a more immediate response, but if you parry the projectile then the advantage is still yours--and if not, keep in mind that you have a sword; you can just swing through the projectile (sometimes even hitting the firing character through it), and then it's no different from trading hits with any normal hitbox.

I know I used the word "camping," but I don't mean "going to the other side of the stage pitching up a tent and roasting smores," I mean patient forward-moving zoning.

Don't think of sword zoners as tent pitchers. Think of them as mobile home drivers. The bubble created by the arcs of Lucina's sword constitutes her zone, and since the sword is always in Lucina's hand, her zone moves with her. She camps right up in your face, and most characters with good projectiles aren't fast enough to get away from it. There are a few who can get away and camp her and whiff punish super well, like Sheik, and they're probably -1 matchups, but mostly Lucina camps the projectile users, instead of the other way around.

 

[DrKatz]

I talked about him in my post. He's very good--the best Lucina in advantage for sure. But he's so aggressive. He's enjoyed a lot of success, but I think with the right playstyle Lucina could be pushed even further.



Sword zoning happens at a range where most projectiles are just too unsafe. For example, Wolf blaster lasts 52 frames. Lucina d-tilt lasts 23 frames; that's less than half as long. Wolf isn't going to blaster when you're d-tilt zoning. What blaster and other projectiles can do, though, is prevent you from using dash backs to control space between close and mid range. Dash attacks achieve roughly the same thing, but projectiles don't require a full-body commitment, so they're certainly useful for low-commitment conditioning. But they don't force Lucina to take initiative.

There are a few projectiles that allow the user to move with the projectile, like Mario's fireball and Pikachu's thunderjolt. These require a more immediate response, but if you parry the projectile then the advantage is still yours--and if not, keep in mind that you have a sword; you can just swing through the projectile (sometimes even hitting the firing character through it), and then it's no different from trading hits with any normal hitbox.

I know I used the word "camping," but I don't mean "going to the other side of the stage pitching up a tent and roasting smores," I mean patient forward-moving zoning.

Don't think of sword zoners as tent pitchers. Think of them as mobile home drivers. The bubble created by the arcs of Lucina's sword constitutes her zone, and since the sword is always in Lucina's hand, her zone moves with her. She camps right up in your face, and most characters with good projectiles aren't fast enough to get away from it. There are a few who can get away and camp her and whiff punish super well, like Sheik, and they're probably -1 matchups, but mostly Lucina camps the projectile users, instead of the other way around.

Absolutely love your analogies and way of thinking about it. I play a lot of defensive sword characters (Ike, Corrin, Shulk, Byleth), so I like thinking about how I can apply that to my playstyle moving forwards.

Appreciate your feedback. How do you feel about Byleth’s viability moving forwards? Personally, I feel he’s underrated. Perhaps upper mid tier.

 

[|RK|]

Diddy Kong I figured this is particularly interesting to you

Aaron (formerly known as Dyr) actually just trashed Kome with Diddy twice at the Frostbite pre-local. Grands was a 3-0 ending with a three-stock.

He claims Diddy is top 15, which is a little wild imo BUT - it'll be fun to see what happens this weekend.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Diddy Kong I figured this is particularly interesting to you

Aaron (formerly known as Dyr) actually just trashed Kome with Diddy twice at the Frostbite pre-local. Grands was a 3-0 ending with a three-stock.

He claims Diddy is top 15, which is a little wild imo BUT - it'll be fun to see what happens this weekend.

Well that's, controversial, to say the least. I would say that Diddy definitely has the potential, and can keep up with a lot of the Top Tiers. He has no horrible matchups outside of maybe Pikachu, Snake and Olimar. And he can keep up very well with Peach, Joker and Palutena in particular. His recovery and bad air speed make him a bit too shaky however to preform well against characters who can combo him well and have better damage output and longevity as say, Wario and Wolf. But if those could get addressed in patches, as well as a slight buff to F Air, KO power, and a little more range or safety on shield, Diddy can go far. Diddy has been quite underutilized since forever though. Even in Smash 4 it was only ZeRo who REALLY shined with him. And everything about Smash 4 Diddy screamed Top 3, but very little people played as Diddy, with his nerfs in Ultimate, I get why there's even less Diddy players. However Tweek absolutely destroyed as Diddy at Kongo Saga.

I'm not familiar with either players however, but what characters where used? Is there a way for me to check these sets also?

 

[TennisBall]

Well that's, controversial, to say the least. I would say that Diddy definitely has the potential, and can keep up with a lot of the Top Tiers. He has no horrible matchups outside of maybe Pikachu, Snake and Olimar. And he can keep up very well with Peach, Joker and Palutena in particular. His recovery and bad air speed make him a bit too shaky however to preform well against characters who can combo him well and have better damage output and longevity as say, Wario and Wolf. But if those could get addressed in patches, as well as a slight buff to F Air, KO power, and a little more range or safety on shield, Diddy can go far. Diddy has been quite underutilized since forever though. Even in Smash 4 it was only ZeRo who REALLY shined with him. And everything about Smash 4 Diddy screamed Top 3, but very little people played as Diddy, with his nerfs in Ultimate, I get why there's even less Diddy players. However Tweek absolutely destroyed as Diddy at Kongo Saga.

I'm not familiar with either players however, but what characters where used? Is there a way for me to check these sets also?

For reference, Kome is often considered the best Shulk in the world, got 2nd at this year's Japan EVO, and is currently ranked 25th on the Fall 2019 PGRU.
I don't know who Aaron is either, but judging from this, he sounds pretty good.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Aaron is Dyr.

 

[BitBitio]

D i d d y ‘ s I n f i n i t e i s c a l l e d t h e p y r a m i d s c h e m e .

Lol, sorry I just keep thinking of how Dakpo destroyed Gluto with this in bracket and a Japanese player pulled it off too. Diddy is not only sick to watch, but he’s actually super versatile. He can camp surprisingly well, deal with approaches competently, and has some hype setups. Underrated high tier for sure.

 

[TennisBall]

Aaron is Dyr.

Still don't know who that is, but thank you.

 

[Diddy Kong]

D i d d y ‘ s I n f i n i t e i s c a l l e d t h e p y r a m i d s c h e m e .

Lol, sorry I just keep thinking of how Dakpo destroyed Gluto with this in bracket and a Japanese player pulled it off too. Diddy is not only sick to watch, but he’s actually super versatile. He can camp surprisingly well, deal with approaches competently, and has some hype setups. Underrated high tier for sure.

He's amazing to watch, and play. That's for sure. D Tilt to U Smash is also very reliable to land kills. But you can't keep on using it, that's why Diddy would like a buff to F Air to help him land kills with it better. Now the meta is more evolved, Banana found it's way to be usable again. And Aaron maining might benefit a lot, cause he'd get more exposure.

Top 15 is generous, but I don't think Diddy is worse than the likes of Samus, Bowser, the Links and Yoshi for example. I actually think he's better than them.

 

[Lacrimosa]

Still don't know who that is, but thank you.

He is the Diddy ZeRo made a video about because he won one local with Diddy.

 

[|RK|]

I'm not familiar with either players however, but what characters where used? Is there a way for me to check these sets also?

Aaron was Dyr in Smash 4. He was a top Diddy in that game as well, after ZeRo and Zinoto obviously.

Kome is probably the best Shulk in the world, with wins over Zackray and Tea. Currently #25 on the PGRU.

Winners Semis:

Grands:

 

[Ziodyne 21]

I am not sure

Diddy Kong I figured this is particularly interesting to you

Aaron (formerly known as Dyr) actually just trashed Kome with Diddy twice at the Frostbite pre-local. Grands was a 3-0 ending with a three-stock.

He claims Diddy is top 15, which is a little wild imo BUT - it'll be fun to see what happens this weekend.

Man, Kome is going to rival Dabuz for getting tons 2nd place finshes, but never being able to get 1st

 

[KirbySquad101]

Rando thought, but I'm personally very excited to see Dabuz's at Frostbite. He's been hyping up Rosa a LOT recently, and this will be the first major event he attends this month, so I'm looking forward to what he can demonstrate with the character.

 

[Djmarcus44]

I am also excited for Aikota. He got 2nd in squad strike with , and beat Dark Wizzy in the event. Hopefully this success leads to a strong singles performance. I am pretty excited for Mii Gunner, but Aikota, Katakiri, and Carlos (PR #9 in Houston) are in the same pool.

Pro Guides has a character attributes page with their tier list (https://www.proguides.com/super-smash-bros-ultimate/characters/). I like the idea, but their execution is terrible. I feel that having a similar thread would be helpful in getting a better grasp on the capabilities of each character. I wouldn't mind starting it off, but it would be better if a more active poster or a mod could keep the discussions going. It can start with neutral, advantage, and disadvantage and expand from there.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Pro Guides has a character attributes page with their tier list (https://www.proguides.com/super-smash-bros-ultimate/characters/). I like the idea, but their execution is terrible. I feel that having a similar thread would be helpful in getting a better grasp on the capabilities of each character. I wouldn't mind starting it off, but it would be better if a more active poster or a mod could keep the discussions going. It can start with neutral, advantage, and disadvantage and expand from there.

Sort of like this?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Djmarcus44]

Sort of like this?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Yes. I was thinking about having it as a community list to encourage more character comparisons. I would also probably put the ledgetrapping, low% game, high% game, and stock closing ease as subsections of advantage.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Rando thought, but I'm personally very excited to see Dabuz's at Frostbite. He's been hyping up Rosa a LOT recently, and this will be the first S Tier he attends this season, so I'm looking forward to what he can demonstrate with the character.

Uh what? He went to Genesis and LMBM.

 

[Thinkaman]

To continue the recent series of "alternative data sources", here's win-rate from the automated SaltyBrosBet channel since Sept 2019:

(Take Wendy with a grain of salt, since her usage is bound to be a tiny n to average. Possibly true for Simon as well.)

This is pretty comparable to our VOD win rate data, with some interesting online differences.

are dominant on both measures, with Wario #1 in both.

is #2, while he is in the bottom 25% in VODs. Similar skew with

Byleth is still preliminary so we'd expect them to underperform, but I'd guess this is unusually weak as far as preliminary data goes. Terry is already up to ~50% in this data.

are clearly online troll picks. This should be obvious to everyone who has ever played online. (Or offline, honestly.)

are the "real" bottom 3, all of which were buffed in November. (The middle of this data period.) But they clearly aren't primarily looking at data similar to this, because all show great win-rates. (To say nothing of the nerfs, which don't line up with this data at all.)

Many other low win-rates are what I'd call "great characters popular with bad players": . Surprised isn't down here.

and also underperform too, though less than I expected.

Shocked that the supposed online queen shows such underwhelming results.

Echo results:
>>, expected no difference
>>, opposite of expected
>>, opposite of expected but consistent with our view of Lucina's data here
>, as expected
>>>, as expected
>, opposite of expected
>, opposite of expected

 

[Nobie]

Simply having more buffs than nerfs or otherwise increasing the mean strength in the game is not automatically powercreep. For it to be creep, it has to diverge rather than converge.

Smash patches are rather conservative, and haven't had a single case of buffed characters leapfrogging high-tiers into a new echelon of power.

The worst they did was the half-ham-fisted d-throw combos they gave Bowser/DK/Charizard/Robin in 4; I'm glad they walked these back and are being more measured, this time.


With regard to "who do we expect to get buffed", beyond the obvious (people who got buffed 2-3 patches ago and are ready for round 2) and the Ganon question, I think Falco and DDD are solid possibilities. Both did quite well upon release, but have fallen off hard. DK followed a similar but more rapid trajectory, and was obviously touched up.

Mewtwo is a weird case. On a theory level, and from playing good Mewtwos, the character is obviously not bad. But, where are the results? Where is the usage? Lifetime VOD win-rate is a pretty terrible statistic to fixate on (on multiple levels), but that he's the lowest by a massive margin is telling of something.


And yeah, I'd like to see Pit nair fixed. The rest of Pit's hitboxes are honestly fine size-wise. (Maybe fair is a bit conservative; it could be bigger and no one would complain.) It really is just nair that is incorrect, and should be sized comparably to Simon's.

I've been wondering a lot about Mewtwo's situation, just because the more I play the character, the harder time I have reconciling the lack of big results.

One possibility is that all the former Mewtwo players have abandoned or relegated the character to
Secondary status. Some are actually starting to pick M2 back up, like Rich Brown, but that's only very recently.

I think Mewtwo is a character who 1) can't spam moves 2) explodes if you panic, and so is susceptible to getting janked out. Playing the character a lot can be kind of fatiguing, and there's no Smash 4 air dodge to act as a defensive ace in the hole. The character has so many tools, but doesn't really have a single reliable option to always fall back on, except arguably Shadow Ball.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Aaron was Dyr in Smash 4. He was a top Diddy in that game as well, after ZeRo and Zinoto obviously.

Kome is probably the best Shulk in the world, with wins over Zackray and Tea. Currently #25 on the PGRU.

Winners Semis:

Grands:

These are amazing sets. The way Aaron plays really puts perspective to my own game, Diddy DOESN'T have to commit after a neutral win all the time. He's fast enough to simply deal chip damage, then run away to reset neutral and do the same thing again untill kill %s whilst warding off opponents. The way he moved around Monado Art Speed buffs also shows that Diddy is extremely capable of this evasive playstyle. He's being played as a patient rushdown character. Not an aggressive one like Pikachu, Fox or Mario. More akin to Zero Suit Samus in that regard maybe, or a all around better Sheik.

D Tilt is also amazing I see now. It leads up to a lot. D Tilt and B Air are moves that are very hard to challenge and very safe to throw out in most situations. U tilt killing around 120% on Shulk makes me wanna try to put the C Stick on Tilts now even!

I can see why Aaron thinks Diddy to be Top 15. I think Top 20 is easy to envision in the future. I even think that Snake and Wario are maybe not that problematic as I thought before after seeing some more play of Aaron (I personally struggle against Snake because I play handheld only, with GCN controller so maybe it's a personal thing) but Pikachu is clearly 4-6 if not worse. But the rest of the Top Tiers? I think Diddy can handle them very well.

 

[Thinkaman]

The same guy also posted usage numbers, sorted by the same win-rate:

Turns out this is 's world, we're just juggling him in it.

 

[Kung Fu Treachery]

I've got a few ideas about the lack of Mewtwo players, though obviously they're mostly guesswork.

First: As I recall, he wasn't a tremendously popular character in Smash 4, even though he was undeniably a powerful tournament threat. I don't pretend to know why that is. As far as I can tell, he's a pretty popular and recognizable character as far as video games go, being a Gen. 1 Legendary, but that doesn't necessarily translate to Smash. Captain Falcon, Star Fox characters, and Sheik are probably better known from Smash than their own games at this point, and they maintain strong player bases.

Second: I don't know if anyone else shares this experience, but I often find it difficult to have fun with Ultimate when using Mewtwo. It's hard to overstate how bad his defense is, and I feel like I barely get to play the game sometimes. The character has so many cool and powerful tools, but the fact that none of them can help you much in a vital facet of the game is a bit of a bummer. Mewtwo's not a top tier who attracts players seeking a strong character, and if other people agree with me that he's frustrating, that would go a long way toward explaining his nonexistent player base. Hardcore character loyalists would be pretty much the only ones left, and none of his top representatives in Smash 4 really fit that mold, save perhaps SDX, who put some work in with Mewtwo at the start of Ultimate. Abadango has always played a suite of characters, Wadi has always liked playing ROB, and Rich Brown was an Olimar player in Brawl, if I'm not mistaken. I know SDX took a break and then changed his tag. Not sure if he's still competing, but last I saw, he was playing Joker.

Again, I have no idea if this Mewtwo malaise is unique to me or not. I'm lukewarm on Ultimate as a whole, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Plenty of people play Falcon, and his disadvantage state is certainly no picnic. Hell, I've played Falcon a lot. He's pretty fun. I can't offer a concrete explanation for what's off about the Mewtwo experience for me, but it's something. Maybe the floatiness or the weird double jump, but those aren't new. It could be how the engine changes interact with Mewtwo's bad defensive options. I could list obvious reasons why he's not as powerful as he was last game, but that's not what I'm talking about here. Plenty of weaker characters get representation.

 

[Game7a1]

Just want to mention that two Mewtwo players, ???? and Zenkai, are in top 96 (loser's side) of Frostbite. Don't know if this is something that will happen once in a blue moon or the start of something for the legendary Pokemon.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Cosmos is apparently dropping Inking in competitive play and is going to pick up Pikachu according to a recent tweet

https://twitter.com/CosmosZR/status/1231374914369839104

Sad news for Inking fans if Cosmos means it as she may lose its last very top competitive rep

 

[PURGE THEM LIKE THE]

I've got a few ideas about the lack of Mewtwo players, though obviously they're mostly guesswork.

First: As I recall, he wasn't a tremendously popular character in Smash 4, even though he was undeniably a powerful tournament threat. I don't pretend to know why that is. As far as I can tell, he's a pretty popular and recognizable character as far as video games go, being a Gen. 1 Legendary, but that doesn't necessarily translate to Smash. Captain Falcon, Star Fox characters, and Sheik are probably better known from Smash than their own games at this point, and they maintain strong player bases.

Second: I don't know if anyone else shares this experience, but I often find it difficult to have fun with Ultimate when using Mewtwo. It's hard to overstate how bad his defense is, and I feel like I barely get to play the game sometimes. The character has so many cool and powerful tools, but the fact that none of them can help you much in a vital facet of the game is a bit of a bummer. Mewtwo's not a top tier who attracts players seeking a strong character, and if other people agree with me that he's frustrating, that would go a long way toward explaining his nonexistent player base. Hardcore character loyalists would be pretty much the only ones left, and none of his top representatives in Smash 4 really fit that mold, save perhaps SDX, who put some work in with Mewtwo at the start of Ultimate. Abadango has always played a suite of characters, Wadi has always liked playing ROB, and Rich Brown was an Olimar player in Brawl, if I'm not mistaken. I know SDX took a break and then changed his tag. Not sure if he's still competing, but last I saw, he was playing Joker.

Again, I have no idea if this Mewtwo malaise is unique to me or not. I'm lukewarm on Ultimate as a whole, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Plenty of people play Falcon, and his disadvantage state is certainly no picnic. Hell, I've played Falcon a lot. He's pretty fun. I can't offer a concrete explanation for what's off about the Mewtwo experience for me, but it's something. Maybe the floatiness or the weird double jump, but those aren't new. It could be how the engine changes interact with Mewtwo's bad defensive options. I could list obvious reasons why he's not as powerful as he was last game, but that's not what I'm talking about here. Plenty of weaker characters get representation.

I used mewtwo in the previous game and dropped him pretty quickly in ultimate. The loss of the absolutely overtuned airdodge was a huge nerf and has resulted in mewtwo's landings being straight up awful, along with still getting blown up at the ledge like always. When any character touches mewtwo, it is very reasonable to expect that exchange to result in mewtwo being at kill percent. I wouldn't mind that so much if mewtwo had easily accessible, consistent high damage combos. Unfortunately, the best I've seen involve either landing the close hit of down tilt or performing unreliable nair dragdowns. Its frustrating having to win several neutral exchanges while kill percent for you starts at 75, and everyone can deal that much damage to you for free.

I would consider using him again if either the frame data on his aerials was restored or his tail was made into a full disjoint. Note that his tail was not fully disjoint in sm4sh.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Cosmos is apparently dropping Inking in competitive play and is going to pick up Pikachu according to a recent tweet

https://twitter.com/CosmosZR/status/1231374914369839104

Sad news for Inking fans if Cosmos means it as she may lose its last very top competitive rep

Not sure how long that will last. It will have to depend on how well his Pikachu performs.
If his results get worse as a result, then he may resort going back to Inkling.

We will have to wait and see.

Edit: There is also Space from Europe and a bunch of talented Inkling players in Mexico, so the character won't lose its last top rep.

 

[SwagGuy99]

Cosmos is apparently dropping Inking in competitive play and is going to pick up Pikachu according to a recent tweet

https://twitter.com/CosmosZR/status/1231374914369839104

Sad news for Inking fans if Cosmos means it as she may lose its last very top competitive rep

Sucks for mains, but it's an understandable decision. Inkling isn't as consistent as the rest of the top tiers and even some high tiers in terms of damage output and KO power. It's not uncommon to see players survive well past 100% against Inkling and I think the best example of this the set of Maister vs Cosmos at Nightmare on Smashville a few months back. (despite being one of the lightest characters in the game) is surviving until close to 150% or higher during most stocks and while part of that is just due to DI and 's defense allowing him to hold his ground onstage, having kill power that inconsistent in a game where most characters can kill fairly early isn't necessarily an easy thing to work around. And while a fair counter argument to this is that it's a trade-off for killing earlier with Ink, it's still not that early. and all take stocks just as early (if not earlier) than can and they don't have to worry about Ink. doesn't kill as early as the others I mentioned, but he still has the low-profiling that is known for along with a strong combo game and decent range.

I think this change of mains from Cosmos could lead to lacking as many notable results, but it's really too early to judge that.

 

[NotLiquid]

Inkling has a host of issues holding her back relative to the absolute top of top tiers but I'm not entirely sure going Pikachu is going to solve Cosmos' problems. A lot of the things that have held him back in bracket (which aren't even that bad considering his tournament performance returned to normalcy after Smash Con) are things that are going to be exacerbated by Pikachu's similar lack of reliable kill buttons and forcing of edgeguarding/setups. At best he gains the ability to completely bypass ledge trapping and a better OoS game (the latter of which he does cite as an issue), but his endurance is going to suffer for it, and that's been a big issue with Cosmos' play that isn't just down to the character not killing earlier.

It's clear the change has less to do with the character and more to do with himself, and if the change does spell an improvement in mentality that would ultimately be the ideal outcome, but as far as the available metrics are concerned, swapping to a character who is probably the closest thing to equally as "stressful" at a top level feels, on the surface, relatively misguided. I don't doubt Cosmos' ability to do well with Pikachu, but looking at OrionStats there's a reason why ESAM is the only person who manages to consistently highlight the character's top tier qualities; getting good and staying good with Pikachu is an endless uphill climb.

 

[PK Gaming]

Hot take: ZSS is probably the best character in the game currently. A no-brainer for some, i'm sure, but that character is just... ridiculous, in every regard.

 

[Lacrimosa]

Hot take: ZSS is probably the best character in the game currently. A no-brainer for some, i'm sure, but that character is just... ridiculous, in every regard.

I am ok with pretty much everything but that upB is still way too stupid. Kills Bowser at around 100% on BF ledge (if I saw that correctly in the Marss and Leon set).