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Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

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  • Total voters
    584

Arthur97

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Jun 7, 2016
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Vergeben is still mostly correct after over a year of almost flawlessly leaking this game out bit by bit. A YEAR. That's crazy.
Who mentioned that guy? Don't remember him mentioning this at all since the leak came from Nintendo UK.

Either way, they really should fire whoever is leaking this.

Either way, I come out of this afraid that they actually will end up adding more third parties than first parties in Ultimate, but I also have the hope that in the next one they will cut a lot of them.
 

ParanoidDrone

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Either way, I come out of this afraid that they actually will end up adding more third parties than first parties in Ultimate, but I also have the hope that in the next one they will cut a lot of them.
Sakurai all but said that would be the case when he talked about how he doubted any future Smash game would have this kind of crossover potential. I'm 99% sure that was his idea of low-key warning everyone not to expect everyone to return for the next iteration, whenever that may be.

To keep this somewhat on-topic...
I have this weird feeling that Mii Gunner is going to rise up on the tier list because of the Sans alt because now people are going to actually unironically main Mii Gunner this time around for the memes which would ironically improve Gunner's tournament results if someone actually picked him/her up. It'd be hillarious if this were to be true in the future.
Do Mii costumes really have that big of an impact on how much they're actually played?
 

$.A.F.

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So far I honestly think banjo will not be a good character based on what I've seen. Not very fast, side b having 15 or less uses per game will hurt, down b only comes out behind and is very slow, neutral b has meh range and apparently pretty noticeable staling, okay aerials, and nothing that looks particularly good to me. Even Plant has Ptooie
 

shrooby

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Hey everyone!
Since this update doesn't seem to have many changes (specifically seemingly no frame data, knockback, etc. changes) we won't be doing the usual patch notes and patch discussion threads. (I suppose unless we find a number of unlisted changes.)
So we can just enjoy playing as Banjo & Kazooie..........AND SANS.
 

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
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Jan 10, 2018
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Patch notes are out. It's not very much. They're likely reticent to change much after the recency of the last one. Magic Burst got a small buff I guess.
https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/47365

Anyway hell yeah Terry
I think the Magic Burst change is to prevent Bowser from Tough Guy'ing through the move.

Other than that, pretty minor changes all across the board.

The first change, however, did fix an annoying aspect of the new buffering system, which was outlined in BSD's video, so I am glad Nintendo is listening.
 

$.A.F.

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Aight let me rephrase that. Any thoughts on Banjo so far? We definitely don't know nearly enough to accurately judge his viability but how is he in your eyes? BTW apparently down throw f smash is true at 80+ on the combo counter so that's a thing
 

ParanoidDrone

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Magic Burst getting a buff, even a fairly small one all things considered, is kind of lolwut to me. The rest of the changes seem mostly QOL-focused.

I've just finished downloading the update so...uh, I'll get back to you re: Banjo thoughts later I guess.
 

FruitLoop

Smash Apprentice
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Dec 31, 2018
Messages
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I think Banjo is good even if theres a few red flags that remind me of other past issues with characters but i feel like theres a lot of things to note here.

Banjo's disadvantage state is suprisingly good thanks to his additional jump and access to up-b mixups which allows him to constantly get things going offstage while having a get out of jail free card with his side-b. I feel like his limited side-b isn't a huge issue since it kills super early and its invincibility means that you can use it as a resource to reset neutral and to punish tech chases for early kills. Down-B has suprisingly not a lot of landing lag and mixed with his multiple jumps and disjointed back-air it creates a super hard to get through wall offstage meaning that alongside his disjointed range and poking options like forward-tilt, down-tilt, and access to a fast down and upsmash his ledge game could be crazy too. Banjo has access to a fast up-air and a reliable kill throw with drag down confirms meaning that he could do well in an optimized settings. He has so many good conditioning tools that can just punish airdodges for free alongside having an impossible to trade side-special for air to airs. His ending lag on most moves are suprisingly quick despite high startup so his stuff might be suprisingly safe on shield too and having drag down up-air and nair combos always help especially since they work unlike someone like plant's.

His landing lag does give me piranha plant vibes and his backwards facing moves are almost always superior to his forward facing moves with grenade even being designed for that kind of playstyle like DK.

I think we're looking at a good character here even if he's not a current meta threat it seems from my speculation. But his bury combos have potential ngl.
 
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bb010g

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Since this update doesn't seem to have many changes (specifically seemingly no frame data, knockback, etc. changes) we won't be doing the usual patch notes and patch discussion threads. (I suppose unless we find a number of unlisted changes.)
Could you still put at least a notes thread up for consistency? Browsing the archived threads listing is pretty handy for actually seeing what's happened over time, and a post for v5.0.0 that's really short or "this post intentionally left blank" is a lot smoother than having to dig around in SmashBoards's search until you discover that there's no post. Multiply that extra work out for however many people wander through curious and it's a small, but still probably decent chunk of time lost. (Link to this thread if you like?)
 
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KakuCP9

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Can someone test if you can b-reverse Banjo's down-b? I feel like that's probably the best way to get the full use of the move since it only spawns a projectile in the opposite direction he's facing. Plus I feel it would make a good zoning/fakeout tool in tandem with his neutral b and invincible side-b when b-reversed.
 

FruitLoop

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Can someone test if you can b-reverse Banjo's down-b? I feel like that's probably the best way to get the full use of the move since it only spawns a projectile in the opposite direction he's facing. Plus I feel it would make a good zoning/fakeout tool in tandem with his neutral b and invincible side-b when b-reversed.
You can but the timing feels weirder since you have to do it while the move is pulled out.
 

The_Bookworm

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So yeah, top players are pretty happy about them fixing the biggest issue with the buffering system.


:ulticeclimbers: Nana got her ledge trump back, so that is also pretty cool.
:ultyoshi: Yoshi change also helps out a minor, but annoying aspect of the character.
 
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SwagGuy99

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I posted this on Reddit earlier in a comment and am reusing it here as a summary of the patch notes:

Summary:

Yoshi: Technical Fix (Still a buff)

Peach/Daisy: Minor Buff

Ice Climbers: Significant Buff

Villager: Buff

Rosalina: Matchup Specific Buff

Joker: ???

Hero: Mix of Buffs and Nerfs

In a patch with this few changes listed, there may be more stealth buffs we have yet to see but yeah, not much has changed with Ice Climbers being the only character to have truly gained a major buff this patch.

Also (this is not from the original comment) parrying was changed and the buffer system/wavedashing was buffed/fixed somewhat. So yeah, outside of Ice Climbers and the buffer system, most of these changes were pretty minor.
 

Nate1080

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Banjo:

Down B and neutral B are okay edge guard tools.

His recovery is trash. You almost always have to use side B to get back to stage.

Tilts aren’t bad. Down Tilt being pretty damn good with good reach and side tilt not looking too bad either.

Neutral air is surprisingly good, can drag down the opponent and do “fake” combos (might be able to kill confirm into side B. Also side B is a good kill move, probably his main kill move).

Jab can trip and jab lock opponents.

Forward smash has such short range and long recovery on whiff. Disappointed tbh.

Good air mobility though


Too early to call it, but he feels like a mid tier atm to me. He feels pretty heavy, easy to punish on whiff/shield, etc., but has some golden nuggets of goodness that prevent him from being trash tier.
 
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blackghost

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i'm not gonna commit and say any opinion on him yet. but the difference is i tihnk a lot of players and streamers really WANT him to be good. that may impact his usage and pickrate, even in competitive play.
 

The_Bookworm

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This is the duo's full set of alternate costumes:

1567646741724.png


2nd: Banjo resembles Mumbo Jumbo, while Kazooie resembles her color scheme from Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts.
3rd: Banjo resembles Bottles.
4th: Banjo resembles his sister Tooty, with a his backpack being yellow to reference her blonde hair. The color scheme somewhat resembles Conker as well.
5th: Banjo resembles Boggy the Polar Bear, while Kazooie resembles a gentoo penguin (a real-life penguin species).
6th-7th: No reference.
8th: The Gruntilda color scheme, with Kazooie being purple to reference Gruntilda's scarf.
 

Ziodyne 21

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Banjo:

Down B and neutral B are okay edge guard tools.

His recovery is trash. You almost always have to use side B to get back to stage.

Tilts aren’t bad. Down Tilt being pretty damn good with good reach and side tilt not looking too bad either.

Neutral air is surprisingly good, can drag down the opponent and do “fake” combos (might be able to kill confirm into side B. Also side B is a good kill move, probably his main kill move).

Jab can trip and jab lock opponents.

Forward smash has such short range and long recovery on whiff. Disappointed tbh.

Good air mobility though


Too early to call it, but he feels like a mid tier atm to me. He feels pretty heavy, easy to punish on whiff/shield, etc., but has some golden nuggets of goodness that prevent him from being trash tier.

His recovery does seem pretty meh on its own. But it looks Like Banjo can use his own gernade to reset and reuse his recovery like Snake.

It looks like it can lead to stalling or mix-up shennanigans at least.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1169416669552369667
 
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ParanoidDrone

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Initial Banjo thoughts:

* Already noted but they have two midair jumps. I don't think Sakurai mentioned this so it surprised me when I found out.
* Kazooie in general is a MASSIVE disjoint. Not so much nair because it's her wings but anything where she pecks at something is kind of wow.
* Wonderwing is stupid strong, and if you charge at a ledge from onstage, you stay in place while retaining the hitbox. I can see this being used for powerful ledge traps -- on paper it sounds like it would beat every option except roll.
* Since Wonderwing's feathers only regen on death, I can see players going ham with the move at high percent when they have nothing to realistically lose from whiffing a few attempts at it.
* Down special is fairly easy to B-reverse, at least it was for me and I'm not really a tech-heavy player so yeah whatever. Poop out a grenade at the ledge, from a run at the ledge? Sure, why not?
* Held neutral special (Breegull Blaster, the run-and-gun mode) can fire eggs with either A or B, but if you use B, you sacrifice some mobility since direction + B will result in canceling the move (if tapped) or using the special in question (if held) -- especially important since Wonderwing is on such a limited resource. I think using A to fire is by far the safer option.
* Why didn't they give us a dragon Kazooie alt? ;_;
 

SwagGuy99

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Some Banjo info I found:

  • Banjo's weight is 106, the same as Snake and ROB, I just tested it.
  • Banjo's side-b has a lot of lag when it bounces off of a wall.
  • Banjo has 2 mid-air jumps.
  • Once neutral-b has been activated into it's machine-gun egg shooter thing (I'm not a Banjo Kazooie fan, IDK what it's called) it can be held infinitely. Only one egg needs to be shot to activate the machine-gun egg shooter.
  • Any move can be used out of up-b.
  • Can't confirm 100% but Banjo's run and fall speed seems to be average but his walk speed and air speed seem slow.
Edit: Weight can be tested on Mushroom Kingdom 64 in-game for anyone who's curious.
 
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Nate1080

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His recovery does seem pretty meh on its own. But it looks Like Banjo can use his own gernade to reset and reuse his recovery like Snake.

It looks like it can lead to stalling or mix-up shennanigans at least.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1169416669552369667
That’s actually really neat to know. Makes going back to ledge safer too since you have Grenade to cover their edge guard.
 

KirbySquad101

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Ugghhhh, why does all the juicy stuff happen when I'm away at college? lol

Anyways, from the sounds of it, they're either: A. Happy with the current balance of the game atm, or B. Preparing for another update that's more focused on making balance changes. If it was A, I don't really blame them: While the balance can certainly be better, we are seeing more and more that many characters are capable of making it far under the right hands. I've gotten very paranoid about calling a character outright "bad" in this game, mostly because it feels like I can be proven wrong by a high-level player almost instantly within as soon as a week.

As for Banjo-Kazooie, some things I picked up on him:

- He's a pretty hefty boi: It feels like he weighs more than :ultlink:, but just slightly less than :ultsamus:; apparently he has a weight value of 106 units, which is on par with :ultrob: and :ultsnake:. I was actually expecting him to be heavier, given that he's... well, a bear, but he's also much smaller than I expected, barely taller than :ultmario:. Being both heavy and not sporting ridiculously ginormous body frame like :ultrob: or :ultridley:? I can get behind that.

- While his Up B as a recovery move certainly won't give :ultsonic: a run for his money anytime soon, the amount of ways he can mix up his recovery almost rivals :ultmetaknight:. He can jump/air dodge out of BOTH Wonderwing and Shock Spring Jump and on top of that, blow himself up using his own grenades to give him a boost, which gives him so much versatility when recovering and pretty much allows him to recovery from anywhere. Granted, the self blow-up doesn't send him flying like it does for Snake and his Shock Spring Jump is far more vulnerable than :ultmegaman:'s Up B, but I think that's a good trade-off for how much he can do in the air.

- Both Fair and BAir auto-cancel in a short hop. While it isn't that great for his FAir, as he'll most likely only be hitting characters with the sourspot of the move, it's REALLY good for BAir, especially since the move has an otherwise sucky 18 frames of landing lag. Its strong, it throws opponents offstage pretty easily, scoops up characters very well, and it can actually be hard to punish thanks to Kazooie's strong disjoint.

- FF FAir is surprisingly spammable given how strong the thing is: It feels like an amalgamation of :ultcloud:'s and :ultmario:'s FAirs in that it has similar start-up to Mario's but landing lag on par with Cloud's, sporting only 11 frames of landing lag. Granted, it doesn't have the massive reach of Cloud's Fair, but it also feels much stronger, and compared to Mario's and Cloud's FAirs, has a much more consistent hitbox. I can definitely see this move being used often to create a wall, especially if the opponent is at kill percents.

- Banjo sports quite a disjointed grab range (on his dash and pivot grab anyway, his standing grab is deceptively very short ranged) and some pretty good utility off his throws at that: Back throw is pretty much Mario's BThrow except stronger, and DThrow has the ability to bury opponents, though I'm not quite sure how good his bury is compared to R.O.B.s or King K. Rool's. His grab frame data isn't too bad either, having only slightly below average start-up (standing grab has frame 7 start-up, dash grab is frame 10, pivot grab is frame 11).

- Wonderwing and Rear Egg are looking to be very nutty moves in his tool kit, especially Rear Egg. Rear Egg might be a bit hard to get the hang of since you can only fire it behind you and the window you have to use it for it blows up is nowhere near as generous as :ultyounglink:'s or :ulttoonlink:'s bombs, but the reward you get for using it correctly is massive; you can easily net about +30% off of connecting one of these bombs through Wonderwing or FAir if you're out of wings. That and Wonderwing kills maaaddd early. That said, I feel like people might actually have to be conservative about using the move too often. You need to use it sometimes for recovering, so people will have to weigh in how important the move is as a recovery option before using it as a ledge trapping tool (oh yeah, and Banjo basically hugs the edge of the stage with this move; that could give it really good utility as a 2-frame option, depending on its hitbox), a neutral break or as a follow-up off of Rear Egg.

- His NAir doesn't feel too impressive? Its landing lag is pretty terrible and it doesn't seem to have the same reach as :ultivysaur:'s NAir; that, and as a landing option, it feels too inconsistent in terms of where the opponent ends up; sometimes you can get a Jab off of it, but other times the opponent just ends up behind you. It and BAir definitely have their uses as options edgeguarding given are both multi hitting attacks and have long durations.

- All of his tilts look pretty solid; FTilt is pretty spammable and has solid reach, Dtilt is much laggier, but has much more reach, making it a potentially strong poking tool, and while UTilt is pretty slow and has next to no horizontal reach, it's Banjo's best combo starter at lower percents and it has KO potential at higher percents.

That's all I have to report about him atm. Overall he feels kind of like :ultjoker:, where he kind of looks mediocre at first glance; you sort of have to dig deep to find all the really good stuff about him, and I think players will be able to do this (Leffen's already doing this right now). Secondly, he feels more... "mellow" compared to :ulthero: and :ultjoker:? That's not to say he's bad, but he doesn't really have a flashy gimmick like Command Selection or Arsene's comeback factor (though Wonderwing is pretty nutty); to be honest, I think that's a bit of a relief. I like Hero, but after the disaster that was the Hero ban drama, I think it's good to have a bit of cool down with a character that's mostly just solid without packing something that's super out of this world lol. And :ultbanjokazooie: feels like that.
 
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Rizen

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Banjo's out; did I hit a time warp or something?

It's nice hylian and deku shields now block Hero's Kafrizz. That seemed like an oversight.
 

Arthur97

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It's actually very fitting that they are so honest. And I like it. I'm tired of gimmicks, and I hope Terry doesn't rely on them. I mean, at most I'd hope he just has Ryu/Ken style mechanics so at least its not new.
 

blackghost

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banjo is clearly the cloud in thathe was made to be simple so many people could enjoy playing him. i really dont agree that he is overlooked though. i dont see much to explore with him his base kit will determine if he sees competitive play. i don't think he will take time like joker, ryu, bayo, cloud, or even plant to develop. this is easily the most simple newcomer dlc character we've ever had in smash.
 

FruitLoop

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one thing i hate about banjo though is that reverse down-b will randomly force you to side-b off the stage i don't know what kind of cruel person would make this the input but here we are
 

Envoy of Chaos

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Played with Banjo since he was released. He seems to be a weird hybrid of a trapper/mid range control character. His normal and nade eggs are quite disruptive at those ranges, particularly normal eggs given they bounce twice and Banjo can place another out as the prof is ending. The also bounce low on the ground meaning they’ll slide right under a lot of projectiles and hit the opponent. Nade eggs also clang with seems to be about everything and b reversing them is simple (Ness gives you a lot of b reverse practice thankfully.) You’ll definitely want to be B-Reversing them as your moving towards your opponent. I’m having trouble seeing a lot of use in actually throwing them though, they bounce away before you can actually grab them so you have to spend time moving towards them all while timer is cooking on them. I only was finding myself a quick moment to throw them which didn’t give me the time to analyze how I wanted to throw them but this is likely a practiced skill.

His recovery may seem poor but it’s not so bad, with a DAD and his two double jumps plus wonder wing he can cover plenty of horizontal distance, you’ll want to use his up b close to the ledge as it only gives him two frames of invulnerability upon release so it’s pretty easy to hit him out of it, the shock pad isn’t nearly as annoying as being hit by like Sonic’s spring so no worries there either.

Wonderwing is a good move, restricted to fives uses for a very good reason. He scares you from pressing any buttons at mid range, I can see trying to land against Banjo being a pain for jumpless characters between wonderwing and nade eggs bouncing around taking up a lot of stage. The move is also really strong at the ledge, he can cover two frames just by using it into the ledge very easily. This is going to really be a pain for characters with very easy to snipe ledge grab animation or characters that don’t snap ledge. (:ultbayonetta::ultrosalina::ultkingdedede::ultpichu:).

His normals all see good, I need more time to get a read on them. He seems like he’s designed around playing with a lot of 50/50, his late dash attack and down throw are good for setting these up.

He definitely an interesting character, he doesn’t have anything that just sticks out like a Aresen or Hero’s everything. He’s gonna take some time.
 

Spinosaurus

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His landing lag and OoS seem pretty bad from what I gathered. Upsmash might be nice for the latter at frame 9 but the range doesn't seem too good?
 

Rizen

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The fact that breegull blaster can walk backwards and jump makes it super annoying to get through. It's probably the best walling projectile in the game. Banjo's going to tack on a ton of damage from it over the course of a game.

Wonder wing has a ton of startup lag but looks good as an aerial option.

Grenade eggs might be good for edge guards but don't look super useful. Be thankful he can't shoot them forward to help with recoveries and landings.

His recovery's poor without WW but he has a lot of room to mix it up. He'll probably burn a lot of gold feathers getting back to the stage.

Banjo's looking to be a strong zoning character. I can see him in at least high tier.
 

ZephyrZ

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Some super early Banjo-Kazooie impressions.

- Much more mobile then I expected. I'm not sure what the data on their initial dash is but it certainly feels good.

- Not a ton of combos. Late hit dash attack might lead into grab at low percents, but that might need to be tested by someone who's better at labbing then me. Maybe Bair leads into it as well? It's hard to tell when the combo counter doesn't do grabs.

- D-throw doesn't seem to have at true follow up at 0-percent. However, if you think they'll mash out in time I think you can catch them with a Uair. If they don't, U-smash seems decently fast and frame 9.

- D-tilt has a really good angle. Seems like it can lead into tech chase or edge guard situations depending on stage positioning.

- Egg Grendade seems good for noncommittal edge guards. Single press Neutral-B also has falls to gravity, although doesn't go as deep.

- Fair is slow enough that it feels like it'll mostly be used for punishes and edgeguards. Kind of makes me think of a mini Ganon fair. Bair and Nair will probably be their main neutral aerials, so if you want to main them get good at your RaRs.

- Wonder Wing seems like a good recovery mix up. Don't disrespect an off stage Banjo.


They seem like a straightforward and fairly honest character who will be easy to play but still has a few tricks up their sleeves. If they're viable they might make a fun secondary or pocket character. Kind of refreshing to have after how technical the last to are - Joker and Hero are really fun but also demand a lot out of you to play them effectively.
Who mentioned that guy? Don't remember him mentioning this at all since the leak came from Nintendo UK.
Nintendo UK just leaked the SNK copyright, they didn't actually leak Terry himself.

Verg confirmed it was Terry shortly after.
Either way, I come out of this afraid that they actually will end up adding more third parties than first parties in Ultimate, but I also have the hope that in the next one they will cut a lot of them.
...Off topic but Nintendo purism isn't a great look.
Wanting to cut what's probably someone else's favorite character just because they're 3rd party is kind of petty.
 
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BlackInk

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Some super early Banjo-Kazooie impressions.

- Much more mobile then I expected. I'm not sure what the data on their initial dash is but it certainly feels good.

- Not a ton of combos. Late hit dash attack might lead into grab at low percents, but that might need to be tested by someone who's better at labbing then me. Maybe Bair leads into it as well? It's hard to tell when the combo counter doesn't do grabs.

- D-throw doesn't seem to have at true follow up at 0-percent. However, if you think they'll mash out in time I think you can catch them with a Uair. If they don't, U-smash seems decently fast and frame 9.

- D-tilt has a really good angle. Seems like it can lead into tech chase or edge guard situations depending on stage positioning.

- Egg Grendade seems good for noncommittal edge guards. Single press Neutral-B also has falls to gravity, although doesn't go as deep.

- Fair is slow enough that it feels like it'll mostly be used for punishes and edgeguards. Kind of makes me think of a mini Ganon fair. Bair and Nair will probably be their main neutral aerials, so if you want to main them get good at your RaRs.

- Wonder Wing seems like a good recovery mix up. Don't disrespect an off stage Banjo.


They seem like a straightforward and fairly honest character who will be easy to play but still has a few tricks up their sleeves. If they're viable they might make a fun secondary or pocket character. Kind of refreshing to have after how technical the last to are - Joker and Hero are really fun but also demand a lot out of you to play them effectively.
Nintendo UK just leaked the SNK copyright, they didn't actually leak Terry himself.

Verg confirmed it was Terry shortly after.
...Off topic but Nintendo purism isn't a great look.
Wanting to cut what's probably someone else's favorite character just because they're 3rd party is kind of petty.
There’s a least three potential first party characters:
-Octoling
-Rex and Pyra/Mythra
-a gen 8 Pokémon rep
The Octolings represent splatoon 2 and will be easy to make. Rex is a scrapped roster character, so he likely has unfinished business with Sakurai at this moment. The gen 8 rep is necessary as it represents the new era of Pokémon games, being on home console with the same kind of outrageous growth we see in Ultimate and even the sad aftermath of Ultimate, not everyone will be here anymore. All three characters are enough to satisfy the crowd who are welcomed by at least one of these three games when they buy a switch, especially Pokémon.

For potential third parties:
-Shantee
-Hollow Knight
-Master Cheif
-Waluigi?! WAIT A MINUTE!
-Minecraft Steve (who has recently returned to glory)
-Travis Touchdown
-Plague/King/Spector Knight from Shovel Knight
-A skull girls rep (maybe Filia)
-etc.
 

Thinkaman

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Joining the BK impression pile:
  • Many, many recovery mixups; very valuable.
  • Fair SHACs! So does bair (and uair), but that's less exotic.
  • Wonderwing does trump/ignore transcendent projectiles, pretty much all hitboxes period.
  • Counters cannot beat Wonderwing EXCEPT :ultbrawler: Counter Throw and :ultbayonetta: Witch Time. (Which both destroy it.)
  • Tethers (:ultlucas::ultluigi::ultolimar::ultpacman::ultsamus::ulttoonlink::ultyoshi::ultyounglink::ultzss:) and area-coverage or held command grabs (:ultdiddy::ultganondorf::ultincineroar::ultkingdedede::ultkirby::ultbrawler::ultridley::ultwario:) have call-out potential against Wonderwing, which is otherwise excellent as described here by many.
  • Alternatively, anything that can hit Banjo during its f-smash-tier 18f startup will obviously beat it, but it won't waste a feather. (Unlike those previous options) And of course you can shield; it seems pretty punishable at any range.
 

Arthur97

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
3,463
Escalation of nastiness is gonna have a bad time.
Nintendo UK just leaked the SNK copyright, they didn't actually leak Terry himself.

Verg confirmed it was Terry shortly after.
...Off topic but Nintendo purism isn't a great look.
Wanting to cut what's probably someone else's favorite character just because they're 3rd party is kind of petty.
Once it was confirmed to be SNK, it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who it was.

And that's your opinion. I think third parties are over-saturated and some are pretty bad choices, and I can't wait for them to get the axe. Shall we continue this where I get increasingly nasty, or will you drop it?
 

Planty

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
959
NNID
something
Played with Banjo since he was released. He seems to be a weird hybrid of a trapper/mid range control character. His normal and nade eggs are quite disruptive at those ranges, particularly normal eggs given they bounce twice and Banjo can place another out as the prof is ending. The also bounce low on the ground meaning they’ll slide right under a lot of projectiles and hit the opponent. Nade eggs also clang with seems to be about everything and b reversing them is simple (Ness gives you a lot of b reverse practice thankfully.) You’ll definitely want to be B-Reversing them as your moving towards your opponent. I’m having trouble seeing a lot of use in actually throwing them though, they bounce away before you can actually grab them so you have to spend time moving towards them all while timer is cooking on them. I only was finding myself a quick moment to throw them which didn’t give me the time to analyze how I wanted to throw them but this is likely a practiced skill.

His recovery may seem poor but it’s not so bad, with a DAD and his two double jumps plus wonder wing he can cover plenty of horizontal distance, you’ll want to use his up b close to the ledge as it only gives him two frames of invulnerability upon release so it’s pretty easy to hit him out of it, the shock pad isn’t nearly as annoying as being hit by like Sonic’s spring so no worries there either.

Wonderwing is a good move, restricted to fives uses for a very good reason. He scares you from pressing any buttons at mid range, I can see trying to land against Banjo being a pain for jumpless characters between wonderwing and nade eggs bouncing around taking up a lot of stage. The move is also really strong at the ledge, he can cover two frames just by using it into the ledge very easily. This is going to really be a pain for characters with very easy to snipe ledge grab animation or characters that don’t snap ledge. (:ultbayonetta::ultrosalina::ultkingdedede::ultpichu:).

His normals all see good, I need more time to get a read on them. He seems like he’s designed around playing with a lot of 50/50, his late dash attack and down throw are good for setting these up.

He definitely an interesting character, he doesn’t have anything that just sticks out like a Aresen or Hero’s everything. He’s gonna take some time.
Minor nitpick on this post: :ultrosalina: recovery has been improved much from smash 4. She snaps to the ledge at almost any point from her up-b except for right at the beginning and all the way at the end when she does a backflip. Her ledge grab animation was also vastly improved from smash 4, where she was notoriously easy to 2-frame. Now she keeps her head quite low and as far as I know she has one of the better ledge snap animations in the game.
 

DungeonMaster

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
1,055
Location
Ottawa
NNID
Dalaeck
Terry's moveset is *really* easily included in smash. No idea what the final build will look like but I'm calling it now that he's likely a 1v1 powerhouse. He has the mobility aspect which is so important to smash baked in. Really quite looking forward to him.
 

ParanoidDrone

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
4,335
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
Terry's moveset is *really* easily included in smash. No idea what the final build will look like but I'm calling it now that he's likely a 1v1 powerhouse. He has the mobility aspect which is so important to smash baked in. Really quite looking forward to him.
I'm just hoping Buster Wolf is his final smash. A friend of mine said it would likely be part of his normal moveset, but I just can't see that happening?

(Buster Wolf is a super in his game, right?)

The glimpse we got of him right after Banjo was tantalizing. The ground wave thing looked interesting, I don't think anyone in Smash has had a similar move to that.
 
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BlackInk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
1,368
Terry's moveset is *really* easily included in smash. No idea what the final build will look like but I'm calling it now that he's likely a 1v1 powerhouse. He has the mobility aspect which is so important to smash baked in. Really quite looking forward to him.
Terry likely is similar to the street fighter characters except he is a mid-range fighter as opposed to a long range or close range fighter. Meaning that he’ll less explosive power than Ken but still be pretty good in the explosive category.
 
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