Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Minordeth]

I'm still surprised they haven't fixed Back and Up-Throw for Falco by now...

As for , currently his best kill throw is D-Throw at around 190% or later, depending on stage of course.

I'd just re-adjust Up-Throw to kill on average at around 160%. (similar to 's Up-Throw & later then 's Up-Throw)
The move does a lot damage, it makes sense for Ridley's gameplan and it's kind of a standard of big-body's to have decent kill throws.
(unless you're & )

Honestly, myself and many others don't see him as a problem character, so I think this change would be fine.

I'm aware. My point isn't that Ridley is a problem character now. My point is that it wouldn't take much to turn him into a problem.

Shielding at death percent against Ridley is always risky, because SPR is a thing. Giving him a kill throw allows him to attack shields in two different ways. SPR has to be conditioned, due to the start-up. A kill throw increases the risk of of attacking his shield, or getting into CQC range. Which is perfect for Ridley, because he thrives at mid-range, where getting killed by Ftilt becomes a real threat.

 

[Daisycakes]

Hey, sorry for my lack of activity here as of recent - elsewhere the website has been taking up my activity.
...
You might be surprised to hear that the CCI, of all places, is heaven.



I really don't believe the two have true correlation with one another and that it should stop being a point made, generally and genuinely.

Why is this assumed to be the case? Can you prove this is the case?

Loss of jab's vertical knockback and hitbox size reductions on tippers are objective and are likely more applicable. The game engine macroing jump inputs, such as buffered fair moving you forward or full hops being difficult to time is a lot more applicable restriction to the spacing game than "speed".

Why?
Everyone got faster by roughly the same measurement: 5%, on their current stats.
If everyone is 5% faster than is anyone actually faster in context?
It feasibly impacts our ability to play, but by how much? Frame data in this game is not drastically different, in fact in a lot of ways it is more restrictive frame data than S4 and Brawl.

Marth has 5% more movement speed, and just about everyone's ground movement speed is higher than the fastest of aerial mobility. Every character's ability to chase weaving is stronger than weaving itself.

That on top of being able to act out of run with any move makes my ability to get to the places I need to for landing tippers easier.

If I can debunk this "seen as fact" logic anytime soon, then my time in Ultimate will not be wasted, HAHA.

Also, Marth's air acceleration was improved, and the landing lag of his aerials were cut.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Loss of jab's vertical knockback and hitbox size reductions on tippers are objective and are likely more applicable. The game engine macroing jump inputs, such as buffered fair moving you forward or full hops being difficult to time is a lot more applicable restriction to the spacing game than "speed".

Yeah, I think harder to land tippers in Ultimate are more applicable to the lack of microspacing options in Ultimate (like Perfect Pivoting) and the jab nerf, than "speed".

Btw, I checked around, and I don't think Marth's tipper size got nerfed from SSB4. I think it is simply copy-paste from SSB4.

 

[Lacrimosa]

I kinda "fear" they will lower the amount of gauge fill through Rebel Guard in a future patch.
I this the gauge is full way too fast, even when Joker has a percentage lead. One hit on Rebel Guard and the thing is almost full.
I still don't think he's that broken and that counterplay needs to be developed first, though. Looking back to past patches, the developers leave the meta game fairly untouched and make only small tweaks, but maybe they think the meta reached a point where some characters exhibit traits that aren't really desirable. Olimar's uSmash can be seen as an example and I wonder if people think that Joker's "limit" is full too soon, ewspecially with Rebel Guard.

 

[PK Gaming]

I may have been a big proponent of Joker being quite overrated earlier, and MKLeo once again tears up everyone with joker to prove me wrong...

... but I won't admit defeat until I see someone edgeguard him. I'll say it again, if people who played against Joker did what they do to everyone else where they just stand at the ledge and do absolutely nothing to pressure Jokers recovery, DK/Ganon/Luigi would be high/top tier. Why do people let Joker recover for free all the time?

Joker is still a relatively new character so it's not at all surprising that people still don't feel comfortable fighting him just yet. Tweek especially had to readjust mid set, and we were beginning to see him do a lot better towards the end of that set. With that said, Joker's strength at high level wont be 100% be predicated on his recovery. Just like Luigi/DK have things that hold them back from being meta relevant that extend beyond their recovery, imo.

 

[Frihetsanka]

It, along with many other character summaries on the Smash wiki, were made when Smash Ultimate was still new and thus highly unexplored and based off of very few results or research and relied heavily on conjecture and hypotheticals. Relying on them now is just foolish.

When I was new to Smash 4 I used the Smash Wiki quite a lot to get a general overview of the game and the characters, and I imagine many players new to the franchise or Smash Ultimate in particular use it as well, so it would be useful if people kept it updated.

I disagree, Marthcina doesn't need it...
They have a solid enough gameplan as is.

They don't need it but they had it in 4, and it was hardly broken back then. Having an up-throw that kills middleweights at 170% isn't unreasonable, in my opinion. I doubt it's going to happen though since Lucina is top or high tier even without it, at least in the current meta.

Yeah, she gets called OP mostly due to her relative ease of use. Especially when compared to some other top tiers, but she's also probably on the lower end of the top tier. Oddly enough, there don't seem to be many calls for Wolf to be nerfed despite him not being that hard to use either in my opinion.

I think you may be right: Other characters are probably better but take more effort, Lucina is easier to play at lower levels than most other top tiers and she does quite well versus most of the cast (but she doesn't really win +2 or +3 vs that many characters, she's not nearly as strong as Smash 4 Cloud or Smash 4 Diddy Kong). She doesn't strike me as a character that needs nerf in the current meta.

As for Lucina, she's more viable because of the changes made to the shield and generally the game favoring more aggressive playstyle, plus the fact that edgeguarding is easier with the changes to the air dodges, she has almost no trouble taking opponents offstage with disjointed hitboxes, and probably because of that many view her as more viable than in previous game.

I agree that she's more viable, partly due to universal mechanic changes, but primarily because her worst matchups got nerfed. It doesn't look like she really gained many new bad MUs either, potentially Inkling, Greninja, and Shulk, but aside from Inkling those characters are not exactly common in the meta.

Even so, we don't really see that many Lucina players do well at a top level of play, especially now that MkLeo is focusing more on Joker. She's a good, solid character, with a good, solid MU spread, but she doesn't appear to be OP.

 

[Browny]

Joker is still a relatively new character so it's not at all surprising that people still don't feel comfortable fighting him just yet. Tweek especially had to readjust mid set, and we were beginning to see him do a lot better towards the end of that set. With that said, Joker's strength at high level wont be 100% be predicated on his recovery. Just like Luigi/DK have things that hold them back from being meta relevant that extend beyond their recovery, imo.

These are top level players, they would have felt comfortable very quickly. I need to see ESAM vs MKLeos Joker which hasn't happened yet. Then people will finally realise that Jokers recovery is vulnerable and actually try to win against him.

 

[ARISTOS]

Joker, more than any other character I feel snowballs incredibly fast-if you lose a stock and Arsene is fresh, you are at best even and likely losing.

Don't know if it's something to be worried about but it is obnoxious to play against though lmao ( was worse though)

 

[ShadowTheHedgehogZ]

Joker can be very obnoxious but I don't really find that many people playing him online

 

[The_Bookworm]

Joker can be very obnoxious but I don't really find that many people playing him online

That is because Joker, being an execution and technical character, is pretty hard to use online.

 

[Frihetsanka]

That is because Joker, being an execution and technical character, is pretty hard to use online.

Online really messes with tier placements in general, especially if there's a lot of delay or if it's laggy. Some characters, like King Dedede and Ganondorf benefit quite a bit from online, while others, such as Pichu and Fox, suffer. Also, technical characters tend to be harder to play well so even offline most Joker players currently aren't that threatening. At a top level of play they are though.

Tier lists primarily matter for top levels of plays and when played offline.

 

[NotLiquid]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

3.1.0 is inbound.

It breaks replays, so while this may just be bug fixes, expect potential balance changes.

 

[Arthur97]

Well, here's hoping the next four fighters don't add anymore ridiculous gimmicks even though they probably will. After 4 Cloud, not sure why they decided to add another limit like gimmick. Wonder how long it is before people get tired of gimmicks.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

The DLC fighters will likely all have some sort of "gimmick" or very unique trait because they want people to buy them. If they looked normal they wouldn't be as marketable and if they were bad characters they'd be even less sellable. Aside the S4 veteran DLC, Corrin was the most "normal" character we got in DLC in that game. We had Ryu who brought a new heavy/light and input mechanic to smash, Cloud who bought the limit mechanic that is similar to Joker's and Bayo who well, yeah.

I'd be surprised if the remaining DLC didn't have something unique about them.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

3.1.0 is inbound.

It breaks replays, so while this may just be bug fixes, expect potential balance changes.

It may likely be bug fixes or other qol changes. If there are going to be balance changes. I doubt it will be anything major .

 

[Lavani]

friendly reminder that the patch syntax is major.minor.bugfix

if there were only going to be bugfixes and not balance changes, it'd be 3.0.1 instead of 3.1.0

I still wouldn't expect anything major given the game's current patch history though, unless maybe if it's to address the DLC characters specifically.

 

[Terotrous]

Once again I'm way late with my thoughts on and

For Shulk, I feel like he's kind of like Ice Climbers in that when he works, he feels ridiculous, but he often doesn't work. If you're getting to use your monado arts at the right time and getting the interactions you want, he feels absurd, he's got speed, power, range, survivability, he's got it all. But then you take one bad interaction where you get put into disadvantage at a bad time and you end up not getting the value you need out of one of your artes and suddenly the art is on cooldown and you don't have the tools you need and it all starts falling apart. Many people have been saying "he's just very hard to play!" but I think it's a bit more than this, much of Shulk's potential relies on things you can't fully control since once you activate an art, you only have a few seconds to get the interaction you want, and in a chaotic match it frequently just doesn't work out that way. I personally think he is probably high tier for "standard" play, but he might even be mid-tier as a tournament character because tournaments value consistency so much. All it takes is a couple instances of bad luck to get knocked out of a tournament, which probably explains his generally lackluster placings.

For Joker, I was actually saying some of this stuff about him day 1. I think a lot of people think No Arsene Joker is a bad character, but he is still quite a good character. He's fast, he has some decent neutral tools in Eiga and Gun, he has solid edgeguards, and he has a pretty decent kill move in FSmash. I feel that even if Arsene didn't exist, he would be at least upper mid tier. Then when you have Arsene, he becomes a ridiculous character. Arsene just takes everything about him and makes it way better except maybe for UpB. It's absurd to me that some people think this character is not at least high tier, I think he could very easily be top 10. MKLeo is pretty godlike, but I'm sure he won't be the only one to do big things with this character.

 

[Rizen]

Knowing Nintendo they'll at best slap a few wrists and increase the damage on a low preformer by 1%. I wouldn't mind seeing some top tier wrists slapped. If they do anything more to projectiles they'd better give some compensation.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

...

Knowing Nintendo they'll at best slap a few wrists and increase the damage on a low preformer by 1%. I wouldn't mind seeing some top tier wrists slapped. If they do anything more to projectiles they'd better give some compensation.

Yea I am prediciting a similar outcome. Maybe some more lower-tier characters will get some buffs and a slap on the wrist for one or 2 top-tiers.

I dunno If anything I would say Snake or Olimar may thier wrists eyed for a slap

 

[Lacrimosa]

Gib Zelda more speed. Like, Puff airspeed and Falcon ground speed :3.

Actually, please don't. But a slight move mobility buff for her and Kirby needs that long awaited air mobility buff. I mean, I like Kirby. He's pretty much my best secondary but he is really lacking because of this :/. I can get him to work sometimes but it does really require effort and I really don't have the time for two chars. Even for one char, my time invested in Smash is by far not enough.

All I REALLY want is a nerf to Olimar's uSmash. Either increase the knockback at lower percent so it doesn't lead to upAir or a 2nd uSmash or make the endlag bigger. Endlag increase is always a weird thing but I think the first thing would actually work.

 

[$.A.F.]

Gib Zelda more speed. Like, Puff airspeed and Falcon ground speed :3.

Actually, please don't. But a slight move mobility buff for her and Kirby needs that long awaited air mobility buff. I mean, I like Kirby. He's pretty much my best secondary but he is really lacking because of this :/. I can get him to work sometimes but it does really require effort and I really don't have the time for two chars. Even for one char, my time invested in Smash is by far not enough.

All I REALLY want is a nerf to Olimar's uSmash. Either increase the knockback at lower percent so it doesn't lead to upAir or a 2nd uSmash or make the endlag bigger. Endlag increase is always a weird thing but I think the first thing would actually work.

I just hope Kirby doesn’t get anything too crazy with airspeed. As covered by juggleboy, that specific buff may be either too little to actually change much or give him a 0 to death.

 

[SwagGuy99]

About ... In a similar vein to , she may or may not have *directly* been nerfed overall, but the overall game mechanics being changed from SSB4 to SSBU benefits her more, and it shows. I would say that even is also slightly directly nerfed because of down throw combos and up tilt being less reliable at low%. However, the game mechanics and other small buffs to other moves balance the nerfs of his previously mentioned moves. Even then, With a bigger roster and more of fighters becoming viable, Mario's standing in the tier lists is somewhat lower even though he's just as viable as he was in SSB4. As for Lucina, she's more viable because of the changes made to the shield and generally the game favoring more aggressive playstyle, plus the fact that edgeguarding is easier with the changes to the air dodges, she has almost no trouble taking opponents offstage with disjointed hitboxes, and probably because of that many view her as more viable than in previous game. I think Mario will rise in the tier list too, but only time will tell.

I'm glad someone realizes that Mario is hardly any worse than his Smash 4 counterpart in Ultimate. He was one of the least changed characters in the transition and between the game mechanic changes and direct changes, he wasn't really buffed or nerfed in the transition to Ultimate. IMO right now he's a high high tier character and as time goes on, I think he can rise up even into top tier around where he was in Smash 4. The issue currently is that he loses to most of top tier and I think some top tiers like Lucina, Snake, Olimar, and/or Peach may need some slight nerfs to make those matchups easier, or, Mario just needs more time to be proven as a top tier. The potential is there, and relatively unchanged from Smash 4, someone just needs to show it off for people to take Mario more seriously.

 

[Arthur97]

The DLC fighters will likely all have some sort of "gimmick" or very unique trait because they want people to buy them. If they looked normal they wouldn't be as marketable and if they were bad characters they'd be even less sellable. Aside the S4 veteran DLC, Corrin was the most "normal" character we got in DLC in that game. We had Ryu who brought a new heavy/light and input mechanic to smash, Cloud who bought the limit mechanic that is similar to Joker's and Bayo who well, yeah.

I'd be surprised if the remaining DLC didn't have something unique about them.

I just have a feeling we're going to end up even worse than 4's DLC. Joker is the first one of the pass and people are already trying to say he's top tier. That just doesn't bode well for the next four.

As for gimmicks, while some work, overall I'm not a fan of overtuned ones like Arsene, but yeah, I'm almost sure they'll be there. But with most of the newcomers since 4, they've had some sort of gimmick. It's almost like they can't make a good moveset without them, or at least don't think they can.

 

[Lacrimosa]

I just have a feeling we're going to end up even worse than 4's DLC. Joker is the first one of the pass and people are already trying to say he's top tier. That just doesn't bode well for the next four.

As for gimmicks, while some work, overall I'm not a fan of overtuned ones like Arsene, but yeah, I'm almost sure they'll be there. But with most of the newcomers since 4, they've had some sort of gimmick. It's almost like they can't make a good moveset without them, or at least don't think they can.

Well, the 1st DLC char is currently seen as a low-tier and Joker does only well with Leo, probably the best Smasher right now. You could still say that Leo carries to character to some degree and that people still need to figure him out. Opponents will at first always be a step behind the player who plays a new character at this level.
Not saying he is not top-tier but that has to solidify first (Leo didn't do that well at Umebura for example).
Anyway, we have a low-tier and a high-tier as the two DLC characters for now. That doesn't give any real precedent to where the other four chars will go.

 

[KirbySquad101]

I do still feel Kirby needs some sort of Inhale buff first and foremost to give him a much easier time with projectiles overall. It's borderline depressing to see Kirby get so many new toys, yet can't make use of any of them because he's too busy getting pelted to death by Pikmin or grenades.

The thing that bothers me the most about Arsene is why it lasts so long compared to Cloud's Limit Break (or I guess why Limit Break lasts so short compared to Arsene); they could at least give Limit Break an indication of when the move ends.

 

[Arthur97]

Well, the 1st DLC char is currently seen as a low-tier and Joker does only well with Leo, probably the best Smasher right now. You could still say that Leo carries to character to some degree and that people still need to figure him out. Opponents will at first always be a step behind the player who plays a new character at this level.
Not saying he is not top-tier but that has to solidify first (Leo didn't do that well at Umebura for example).
Anyway, we have a low-tier and a high-tier as the two DLC characters for now. That doesn't give any real precedent to where the other four chars will go.

I do think Leo is a big part of Joker's success, but the fact that he's still being pushed as that high is something.

And Plant isn't a fair example as evidence points to it having been intended to be in the base game if just by note of having a Guidance.

There is no guarantee that it will get worse, but it could just to keep them "worth the purchase." I don't want another 4 DLC which kills the balance. Hopefully I'm wrong and just being a pessimist.

 

[Roguewolf]

I think that jokers certanly good but he's also not killing any sort of balance in this game now I can't say anything about the other dlc because obviously we haven't seen them yet but joker has some big fundamental weaknesses such as recovery and needing arsene to kill consistently ( believe me its a weakness)and some big fundamental strenghts like building damage and some good projectiles and combos game and arsene is a very good tool. But he's also a complicated charachter with weakness who when played well can have tremondus reward so far I feel sakurai got the balance of dlc charachters right with joker he gave him enough pros to be viable and enough cons not to ruin the game joker dosent feel like dlc he feels like a charachter who while good fits into the rest of the games balance. To me at least

 

[B_Burg]

Oh lordy another update already?

More Mega Man nerfs on the way.

 

[DunnoBro]

I'm glad someone realizes that Mario is hardly any worse than his Smash 4 counterpart in Ultimate. He was one of the least changed characters in the transition and between the game mechanic changes and direct changes, he wasn't really buffed or nerfed in the transition to Ultimate. IMO right now he's a high high tier character and as time goes on, I think he can rise up even into top tier around where he was in Smash 4. The issue currently is that he loses to most of top tier and I think some top tiers like Lucina, Snake, Olimar, and/or Peach may need some slight nerfs to make those matchups easier, or, Mario just needs more time to be proven as a top tier. The potential is there, and relatively unchanged from Smash 4, someone just needs to show it off for people to take Mario more seriously.

Mario's potential tree has actually changed a LOT from smash 4.

His advantage, disadvantage, and reward are all worse. But his neutral, and ledge coverage are however, superior.

FLUDD is now a real neutral tool right from 0% as opposed to 80%~+ in smash 4. And he actually has complete ledge coverage to work with it. Capable of threatening hang with Cape > U/Dsmash, Dtilt > Bair, or just dash fsmash. (Even FH Fireball > Fair works as a true combo now if you really commit to it)

FH Fireballs are also now real shield pressure, and reward in neutral. Giving him a much more varied, versatile gameplan compared to smash 4.

2-framing with dash attack is actually rewarding now since it doesn't give jumps back.

In smash 4, all he could do was trump, or dash attack to threaten a high% opponent. Trump risked stage control on failure, and dash attack almost never converted into stocks. (And was also very baitable/punishable)

Though I don't think he's top tier. He just has way too many even matchups for that. And Snake/Lucina being so popular hurts a lot too. (Olimar/Peach are fine tho)

 

[KakuCP9]

I don't know about Mario's positive state/reward being worse since the man's running around ZSS ladders (especially on tri-plats, though to be fair, I don't know how DI affects them). Plus with dair being a much more reliable KO tool, Mario doesn't have to fish as hard for stuff like Usmash, bthrow or a probably staled bair since from what I seen, he can definitely sneak one in at kill percent in middle of string/juggle so I think its a net gain trading low percent combos for a reliable end goal.

 

[SapphSabre777]

I do still feel Kirby needs some sort of Inhale buff first and foremost to give him a much easier time with projectiles overall. It's borderline depressing to see Kirby get so many new toys, yet can't make use of any of them because he's too busy getting pelted to death by Pikmin or grenades.

Kirby getting an Inhale buff would be a bandage fix to his over-arching problem: his ability to make the most out of his advantage state and neutral. I mentioned cohesion a few months back, and it still sits here. His small size is a huge boon, and his crouch needs no more mention on just how oppressing it can be at times, but his stats and how his moves work aren't as cohesive as other characters that have become more prominent in the current meta. Fortunately he has been the recipient of a bunch of small buffs that at least amount to him being able to do stuff now, and at least be defined as cohesive (bless F-Tilt and D-Throw, also N-Air), but he still needs that extra push and especially more notable representation before he is in the clear (though Guapo managed to break Top 100 in Momocon with him, and Komota is still a notable name). However, the character meta is surprisingly stable and looking at how to make the most out of maximizing damage/advantage and getting Copy Abilities and maximizing their potential compared to when he was near advantage-less on release. There's a lot you can do to him to get to a solid state, but regardless of the changes, and even despite his unpopularity as a topic at top level, at least he finally has a character base researching how far he can go. We can only wait and see what happens, but at least his meta isn't staying still (keeps it interesting too).

I just hope Kirby doesn’t get anything too crazy with airspeed. As covered by juggleboy, that specific buff may be either too little to actually change much or give him a 0 to death.

The one change I dread, and coming from a Kirby main, is if his air speed gets changed too much. He already has the capability of doing F-Throw into FF F-Air and then doing it again and even a third time on some characters (Snake included because hurtboxes). Adding more airspeed would make him into the horizontal equivalent of Meta Knight's Up Air to Shuttle Loop stuff, and that'd stagnate his meta and center it around that rather than pushing his attributes as a character. It has ramifications in and outside the game and meta, so I'd rather see his moves improved moreso than some of his attributes.

 

[Terotrous]

I agree that I don't like the idea of drastically improving Kirby's Air Speed. While yes, it would make him better, I kind of feel like him having bad airspeed is part of his identity as a character. Right now, I think he's actually kind of an interesting character design, he's pretty scary up close and offstage, but you can zone him out, he almost plays like a conventional grappler that way. The problem is just that he gets zoned out a little bit too free. Making inhale a bit better seems like a very sensible solution to that problem.

 

[PK Gaming]

These are top level players, they would have felt comfortable very quickly. I need to see ESAM vs MKLeos Joker which hasn't happened yet. Then people will finally realise that Jokers recovery is vulnerable and actually try to win against him.

"These are top level players" doesn't preclude the fact that some people take time to adapt to a character. Tweek's 0-3 match vs MKLeo should make that abundantly clear.

I also think it's a bit unfair to call them out for "not wanting to win." Everyone who competes has that drive to win at all cost, that should go without saying. It's easy for you to armchair a path to victory, but there's a lot more that goes into a given match.

 

[Aaron1997]

Ver 3.1.0 of Super #SmashBrosUltimate is coming this week! This update will include fighter adjustments, meaning replay data from previous versions will be incompatible. Convert your replays by going to Vault -> Replays -> Replay Data -> Convert to Video, before updating. pic.twitter.com/3IUqibNCD3

— Nintendo Versus (@NintendoVS) May 28, 2019

3.1.0 is confirmed to be a balance patch

Edit: As for expectaions. I'm surprised they are releasing a balance patch this close to E3. I feel if they where going to release a new character during E3, they could of waited. This tells me that there may not be a DLC character released during E3. TBH I can't predicit what they are going to do here because of how close it is to E3. Its either going to be like 2 changes or the whole is thrown in the trash.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Ver 3.1.0 of Super #SmashBrosUltimate is coming this week! This update will include fighter adjustments, meaning replay data from previous versions will be incompatible. Convert your replays by going to Vault -> Replays -> Replay Data -> Convert to Video, before updating. pic.twitter.com/3IUqibNCD3

— Nintendo Versus (@NintendoVS) May 28, 2019

3.1.0 is confirmed to be a balance patch

Edit: As for expectaions. I'm surprised they are releasing a balance patch this close to E3. I feel if they where going to release a new character during E3, they could of waited. This tells me that there may not be a DLC character released during E3. TBH I can't predicit what they are going to do here because of how close it is to E3. Its either going to be like 2 changes or the whole is thrown in the trash.

They don't really do big balance changes in patches that aren't 2.0.0 or 3.0.0. Some changes do appear to be incoming. Just got to hope MkLeo, Tweek, and Marss doesn't get Joker, Wario, and ZSS nerfed. lol

I don't think they are planning to release a character during E3, but I am expecting them to reveal a character (maybe character(s)). It is the best place to do so.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Just keep in mind that there's probably not going to be anything more than minor tweaks in 3.1.0: not only because its a X.#.X instead of #.0.0 update, but because Nintendo is making sure they aren't kneejerking like they did in early SSB4.

Expect primarily bug fixes and maybe some sort of minor tweaks to one or two of the characters in what could broadly considered to be high tier or better.

Also expect some random change that leaves all of us scratching our head because it wouldn't be Nintendo otherwise.

 

[Game7a1]

Given how many tournaments will happen over the summer, I somewhat dread when the patches land. Since 3.1.0 is dropping this week, Smash'n'Splash 5 likely won't be using it, so we won't get to see any noteworthy impacts to characters until next week. At the very least, I hope there won't be any patches or new characters near CEO and EVO.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

The thing that bothers me the most about Arsene is why it lasts so long compared to Cloud's Limit Break (or I guess why Limit Break lasts so short compared to Arsene); they could at least give Limit Break an indication of when the move ends.

They need to sell the character. Sakurai stated that one of the biggest risk of DLC is them not selling well enough to justify the costs.

I mean just look at the hitbox of Joker's Counter in arsene form...

 

[Arthur97]

They need to sell the character. Sakurai stated that one of the biggest risk of DLC is them not selling well enough to justify the costs.

That doesn't mean they should give them an edge on the others (both gameplay wise and aesthetically). Look at how 4's ended. It's Smash fighter DLC. In what world does it not sell?

Stuff like 4 Cloud and Bayonetta can really sour the experience. Even for a lot of people who bought them.

 

[Gearkeeper-8a]

There are 72 Characters in this game and a fairly amount of them are very simple in fact I wouldn't call any character in this game too complex, the "gimmicks"(I don't know why people call unique mechanics gimmicks but ok) are very straightforward for a fighting game some of you talk like if joker was jack-o from GG.