Hydreigonfan01
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2018
- Messages
- 4,562
He went ROB, Olimar and Kazuya in the pools phase.That is one of the wonkiest character lineups I have ever seen. I need to know what his Olimar did, cause I am interested.
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He went ROB, Olimar and Kazuya in the pools phase.That is one of the wonkiest character lineups I have ever seen. I need to know what his Olimar did, cause I am interested.
Abadango used to be their best Meta Knight by far and had the best result of any Meta Knight ever, getting 2nd at Kagaribi 8. This was back in 2022 and was the same tournament that was Miya's first ever major win. Then Abadango couldn't get those results anymore, tried playing different characters, still wasn't getting those results, and retired from Smash entirely. Now I think their best Meta Knight is Metara, who was ranked top 150 for the 2023 season on LumiRank, but unranked for the 2024.1 season.Opinions on Meta Knight? I just feel like Leo kind of matchup checked Japan. They don't have that good a Byleth and I don't know how good their best Metaknight is but they probably do not have one that plays like Leos. So its like he matchup checked Japan using both characters and himself as a player.
I have no idea where Metaknight stands among all the good but not top characters. Leos MK was very hype but its clear Leo is still figuring things out with the char to a certain degree. Is this another case of Japanese players losing to rushdown?
The loss to Hurt sucked but Leo looked better than his Lumirank going by the entirety of his performance.
To be fair, Sonix's bracket felt constructed to give him the hardest time, as he was put up with a couple of his biggest demons in pools (Shinymark & Light) into immediately fighting Sparg0's Roy for 13th.Congrats to Kola and Asimo for proving they can win against the big boys. I just want to point out all top three winners used sword characters. Swords are extremely powerful in the meta. Another thing to note is this is by far Sonix's worst performance. Is he falling off? Also it's been a long time since Steve has won anything major. It seems like people are getting better at dealing with him.
Oh yeah; I forgot about that.Due note that crêpe salée did recently become the 3rd ever Steve player to win a major, winning UFA 2024 with mostly solo Steve (only used secondaries in pools), so there is that.
Some characters I can see rising in the next iteration:Been a bit since the last post here. A couple of major tournaments happened recently, and here they are.
Sumabato SP 52 (337 Entrants, A+)
1st: acola
2nd: Asimo
3rd: Raru
4th: Yoshidora
5th: MASA
5th: Raki
7th: Yone_pi
7th: Umeki
9th: Toriguri
9th: KEN
9th: Ryuoh
9th: Nyonoknb
13th: alice
13th: Kome
13th: Gorioka
13th: Fui
17th: Furararamen
17th: Kuroponzu
17th: Shion
17th: kept
17th: Jogibu
17th: Karaage
17th: Rarikkusu
17th: Rimu
Another day in the office for acola, seizing his revenge on Asimo for the previous Sumabato SP.
Cirque 4 (145 Entrants, A+)
1st: Miya
2nd: Lima
3rd: Light
4th: Sparg0
5th: SHADIC
5th: Tea
7th: Peabnut
7th: Tweek
9th: Kola
9th: TM7_ZAP
9th: Goblin
9th: Doramigi
13th: BeastModePaul
13th: Lui$
13th: Dominator
13th: jBoneX
17th: Osh9
17th: Aaron
17th: Epic_Gabriel
17th: Dany
17th: ChocoTaco
17th: Hurt
17th: Snow
17th: Zomba (DQ'd)
I may be mistaken, but I think this is Miya's first major win in a NA tournament, which is nice considering his not-so-stellar history in NA events.
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With the year coming close to an end, I am expecting the start of next year to feature the next iteration of the official tier list for Ultimate. It has been 3 years since the game last got patched, but this year still features quite a bit of meta/character shifts since the previous year.
For reference, this is the latest tier list published February 2024.
View attachment 395484
Since I want to raise some discussion to this mostly inactive thread, so I am wondering from folks here on what should we expect in terms of character movements for the next tier list. Obvious ones includes Corrin and Bayo rising up the ranks, which is something we have known for many months at this point, but I'd like to hear stuff for other characters too. I'll give my two cents later down the line.
I'm going to run off my thoughts about a few of these comments.Been a bit of time, so I'll give my thoughts.
As time goes on, I feel that there is a far defined gap in power and meta presence between the A tier characters and the A- tier characters (minus Corrin and Bayo, of course). I won't be surprised if a lot of them drops down to the B tiers.
Now for individual characters:
The top 6 characters from the previous tier list is, funnily enough, pretty much exactly the same this year. Nothing has really changed regarding these guys.
acola isn't winning (or attending) as often as he used to be, and some players like Onin and Quandale hasn't been attending that much nowadays, but his continued high reps and with the emergence/improvements to players like Syrup and crepe salee, he is still def #1.
I guess one thing to note is that I don't necessarily agree with Steve and Sonic being put in a tier above the other 4. I think they are ranked that way cause they are the undisputed top 2 in the voting, but power level wise, those two aren't that much stronger than the other 4.
Guess we might rip this band-aid out right now. Ever since the start of the year, these two characters have soared in terms of both meta presence and results, and are two of the most improved from this year. I think both are solidly top 15 characters right now, A+ tier characters at the very least, with Bayo in particular potentially breaking into the top 10.
This year saw the emergence of TamaP and his strong results of the character, but funnily enough, has hasn't done really hot as of late. Lima's performance at Cirque 4, which happened literally a few days ago, shows that the character is still very strong and has even more room at grow.
Peach has unfortunately kind of hit of rough spot this year; MuteAce has been heavily underperforming in most of his events this year, and the character is still in a more niche spot representation-wise. Still very good, but I am unsure if she will maintain her top 10 placement this year.
On the flipside, while it was kind of alarming that Joker ended up going from #3 to nearly out of the top 10 going from the first list to the second, I think this character has solidified his top 10 position this year. MkLeo has started to pick up steam again with the character at the top level, and other players like Omega has continued to perform well with him as well.
The four characters currently in the A+ tier, and will likely be joined by Corrin and Bayo (and maybe Peach).
I think in this point in the meta, he is likely the weakest of the aforementioned four; the character hasn't really been seen at the highest level that much ever since Riddles started shifted his focus towards Street Fighter 6, and his polarizing matchups/weaknesses has been more pronounced as of late. The emergence of Wildz this year helps a bit, but still not quite the drive the character needs.
Want to talk about Yoshi specifically, cause while there was a lot of skepticism of him being ranked in the same lieu of the other 3 in the 2nd list, I think this year solidified his spot here. Yoshidora continues to perform excellently, but we also saw the emergence of Fui and the resurgence of Ron in the Japanese scene placing very highly and even outplacing Yoshidora at times. Yoshidora finally being able to attend and place very highly in NA majors will also improve his perception further.
The trio of A tiers definitely improved this year, but still likely going to end up in a similar tier position due to Corrin and Bayo trending up, and Palu, Samus, and Sora trending down. At the very least, I think Pika should prob the join the A+ tier. Mario has prob improved the most of the three, as at the very least, I think he outranks Wolf and Palutena.
improvement is Shinymark essentially replacing ESAM as the top dog of Pikachu, with great wins and results of the character, breathing new life to the character.
improvement mainly comes with Kola and Goblin obtaining better results this year, with Kola's recent win at Luminosity Invitational 2 being indicative of that.
improvement comes from the emergence of Snow. With Kurama and Dark Wizzy falling far behind the meta sadly, Snow is the drive that Mario meta desperately needs, and good lord what a drive that is.
While I said that is trending down, I think both are still solid A tier characters, but definitely doesn't have the same steam as the above three. On the other hand...
To be frank, I have no idea how this character ended up being ranked this highly in the first place. That being said, there is no doubt this character dropped off a cliff this year, largely thanks to Kameme being largely absent this year. The character continues in be sparse outside of him, with the only other player coming close to his success is Raarchyor, who doesn't solo main him and is also dealing with his own placements/reps being more sparse than last year. Likely the character who is going to fall off the list the most from the previous list.
If there is any character that can match Corrin and Bayo's increased prevalence in the meta, it is this guy. Luigi has soared in terms of top level representation and results. Players like Luugi and especially Raru has taken top placements in tournaments. Luigi players have shown that they don't need a grab to potentially deliver ridiculous damage combos or kill confirms, something that has only increased the character's threat level. Another no brainer for a rise, although I am not sure to what extent he will rise.
Definitely the most puzzling placement from the previous list due to being seemingly underranked, but Peabnut's continued great placements/wins with the character will likely result in a rise.
With Young Link's meta becoming increasingly stagnate in the past 2 years (and is likely going to drop down the list), Toon Link has emerged the best Link around. Lvl 1 has emerged this year with some consistently strong placements and wins with the character.
If there is any other character other than Sora that is likely going to drop off the most, it is Sephiroth. He doesn't really have any players anymore, as even the few top players who second the character like Tweek and KEN have pretty much stopped using him altogether. BeastModePaul is prob the only player that still uses him, but even that is a stretch since he primarily plays solo Hero is tournaments (who, as Cheryl says, is likely going to rise in the list as well). Still a menace in the mid level, which is likely where he is going to end up in the next list.
Despises the fact that MkLeo is primarily playing Joker in tournaments all year long. He did bring him out to reverse sweep a Japanese Shulk player (forgot his name), but that is about it. His set vs acola definitely shows a character that primarily relies on matchup checks to get his ridiculous stuff going. The character continues to get very little support outside of Leo, with Rizeasu losing tournament presence not helping either.
In general, I expect to see the C tier to see yet another massive reshifting, whether it is from B tier characters likely dropping down the C tiers, D tiers rising up to the C tiers, or the tournament presence of characters within the tier trending up and down.
Another massive winner of this year, but Cheryl already took the words out of my mouth, so I will leave it at that.
Also deserves an honorable mention, as TM7_ZAP is definitely the drive this characters needs to have an improved standing in the cast. Likely rising to the C tiers this time around alongside DK.
This character really enjoys Toriguri proving that the character isn't complete wack, and also benefits from some characters ranked above them getting more stagnate. This is still a flawed, matchup-checky character, but definitely one I can see rising up in the next list.
These three were the talk-of-the-town last year, but unfortunately they did not continue their momentum this year.
For ICs, it is largely cause Big D hasn't attended that much this year, so the character is likely not going to drop off that much.
The other two on the other hand has their best players, Skyjay and BassMage, respectively, struggle to obtain the same success as last year, especially in BassMage's case. Seems like it is a case of: rare character gets increased tournament presence from one player -> players learn the matchup -> said player doesn't get the same success.
This is a sad, but expected one, but Link's perception for many players has dropped off yet again this year. To be fair, the character has not obtained much of any results since pre-quarantine, but the character's meta continues to be stagnate for years which has caused many players to re-evalutate the character's toolkit. There are still some that see potential in him, but this has started to become more difficult to justify as we approach the game's 6th year of existing.
I think the character will likely still be ranked in the D tiers, but I do think his standing within the D tiers will be improved. Guilheww and JeJaJeJa's improved tournament placements this year has definitely contributed to an improvement to Kirby's previously dismal perception.
There are some other minor stuff that comes to mind on what may likely happen in the next list, but these are my thoughts.