Community Project: "Everything wrong with Bowser"

[Cronoc]

Alright, I’m finally following through on what I talked about in this post. I think the best way to get the attention of the balance patch team is through a YouTube video clearly showing Bowser’s problems. Generally, issues of frame data, move-set (ie customs), and damage are beyond the scope of this project. With one exception (which I’ll get to later), the purpose of the project would be to compile all the moves which situationally do not work as intended due to hitbox problems or character model entanglement, and create a video showing multiple examples of each. These examples can come from any source - tournament play or user submitted videos. When possible, showing them happening in tournament play is preferable.

Let us start by cataloging what doesn’t work, and how:

Flying slam (klaw, side b)

Hit box doesn’t come out when characters are too close. Optimally show Bowser in a training mode environment simply walking forward into the other character and whiffing side b, followed by a montage of Bowser whiffing klaws in tournament play (especially game-winning ones). Yakety Sax, anyone? This will be a main part of the video.

Bowsercide

Inconsistency in results (sudden death, Bowser loss) between stages, Bowser using klaw on the same stage (different heights) with different results. Is the matter of who has air control still considered a problem? I'm ok with it, but perhaps not everyone is.

Forward tilt

Bowser leans forward, not only whiffing when characters are too close, but often moving their character model behind him.

Others to possibly include:

1. Tough guy inconsistency (example: show examples of it working, not working, finally showing a character screen that puts an indication on the characters who can't be punished by tough guy)
2. Jabs whiffing when characters are too close or inside Bowser’s character model
3. Flame breath whiffing when characters are too close or inside Bowser’s character model
4. Utilt whiffs when characters are too close or inside Bowser’s character model
5. Fortress spitting people out early enough to catch a punish
6. Any other case of moves putting opponents behind Bowser (Usmash, others?)
7. The one exception to the hitbox issues that I would like to include is reverse fortress not snapping to the ledge until the animation finishes. Character comparisons would be needed to show how other characters either have no difference in ledge snap times when reverse up b’ing, or don’t wait nearly as long to snap to the ledge as Bowser when they reverse their up b moves. Showing Bowser getting punished for reversed fortresses in tournament play would help also.

There are two ways to do this video:

1. Someone with a capture card taking video at 60 fps, combined with 60 fps tournament footage. All sources are 60 fps, the video stays 60 fps.
2. We include 30 fps video from uploaded replays and other 30 fps youtube sources, and take capture card and tournament footage down to 30 also. (Any uploaded replays should have music turned off to A. make it easier to edit together and B. avoid having the stage song content matched)

I suppose we could create a variable FPS video, but I’m not so sure about that. It’d be jarring to go from 30 to 60 back and forth throughout the video runtime.

The plan (current stage bolded):
-Stage 1. Find if there is support for this idea. This is a lot of work for one person, too much really. Some delegation of tasks would be needed. For myself, I lack a capture card, so my ability to contribute original video may be limited. It'll be easier to approach this as a community, or as 1-2 organizers compiling submissions from other community members. How many people want to help? What equipment do we have access to collectively?

There are a number of ways one could help if we commit to this project:

1. You can edit video.
2. You can find moments where any of Bowser's problems happen in tournament play and link youtube timestamps here. Bowser mains with tournament footage of themselves playing will probably have some memory of when some of these problems presented themselves onstream and could contribute by posting time-stamps from their own tournament play.
3. Someone with a capture card could record basic footage to show how to consistently whiff hitboxes (Bowser or the other character walking into each other, whiffing during roll vulnerability frames due to characters being inside Bowser, etc). This would require a second player. If we decide to allow 30 fps Wii U replay submissions these could also be done that way.
4. Finding any information that needs to be gathered.
5. Creating any graphics needed, like the YouTube video thumbnail.

-Stage 2. Decide what things should be included in the video. Tell me if I missed anything, or if certain things are not a big enough deal to include, like flame breath whiffing at close quarters. Does the reverse fortress ledge snapping problem belong with everything else? This is aiming to be a comprehensive collection of Bowser’s problems, so anything that's not included should be deemed not necessary to fix or too subjective by the community. Is there something else that’s not a hitbox issue that should be included, like flame breath’s end-lag making it punishable on hit?

-Stage 3. Decide whether a select group of people with 60 fps capture cards and tournament play videos will be the only contributors to the video, or if we should let people submit 30 fps Wii U replay YouTube uploads of these problems also. For example, capturing a 60 fps moment of Bowser being punished when an opponent gets out of fortress too early might be a challenge due to the random nature of the thing. Add in replays and we open finding several good examples of these moments to a lot more Bowser players.

-Stage 4. Stitch together the video from user-submitted and tournament play videos – one person will have to edit the final video all together. Will have to figure out a song or songs to use, will have to combine multiple small moments into one, especially with things like klaw ripe for a montage. Will have to add text and possibly sound effects. It’s possible to split duties, for example letting certain people edit a certain section. Like, one person edits together a short video (music to be added in the final cut) of just one of the listed issues, to be combined at the end. While the video should aim to be comprehensive, we also don’t want to make it too long.

-Stage 5: Release! Tweet the video at any Nintendo person who is affiliated with Smash or Sakurai, any known figures within the Smash 4 community - players, commentators, etc including a hashtag. #fixBowser? Something else? Post it on /r/smashbros, /r/bowsermains and any other relevant subreddit. Facebook groups also.



TL/DR: We should create a video detailing the issues Bowser has to deal with, attempt to spread it and hopefully get the attention of the patch team.

Let's start with stage 1 here... what do you guys think?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I think of all the ones listed only Flying Slam and Fortress not snapping when done backwards are the important ones. The others don't really affect too much in my experience.

 

[Tri10]

This has promise and I'd definitely be down to help with this in any way I can.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I've got a 60 FPS capture card. If anybody has important footage captured in a replay, then I'd be willing to put it in video format for them. Thing is, I'm not so great at video editing and making graphics. The only software I have for videos is movie maker. But if I had to be the guy that put the video together, I'd use audio commentary instead of just text overlay to describe what's happening. Filling up a screen with text annotations when the viewer is supposed to be watching the footage is counter-productive.

I'd normally go all in for a project like this, but the truth is, I wasn't down for this idea when I first heard it, and I'm still not. The only thing I like the sound of is doing a video that has the express purpose of spreading information and awareness of the Bowsercide bug. Because something like that can be seen by TOs who might make a suicide clause for Bowser. Or might not. I just wish there were more people informed about the issue. Side B grab whiffs suck, but I think I could live with that issue by comparison. And yeah Forward Tilt goes through close targets, but it's not a close range move by nature.

I do have an issue with how sometimes Bowser Bomb's Rising and Falling hits don't always connect at maximum range. It happens most when Bowser has a lot of rage, and his opponent is a lightweight. The problem is that the rising hit has weight based knockback, so you'll be knocked further if you're a lighter character. If Bowser has rage, weight based moves have their knockback further increased. The obvious answer might be to reduce the knockback, but doing so might create a different problem when using it on heavy targets. The amount of knockback suffered directly affects the hitstun suffered for any attack. The rising and falling hits may no longer combo, and heavies might escape because of it. But looking at how well it works on them now, I'd bet they have a lot of knockback they could reduce before that becomes a problem.

 

[Cronoc]

The idea is to have everything in one place, so if it filters to the patch team they get to consider all of it. I agree that those two are important, but many of the rest are still unique to Bowser. In my opinion, a comprehensive video is more likely to gain momentum than a video exploring just klaw whiffs or reversed aerial fortress. I'm pretty sure those individual videos have already been made, and they came and went. Not enough examples, not enough info, not enough to build a case that Bowser needs things fixed. This idea is about getting past typical "look at this one example/gfycat, that's so jank" talk and forum complaints and towards something more pro-active. It is a call to action. Any action would be great, but less ambitious videos can be made by one person. People have to like it, and want it. I look forward to more feedback.

I'd normally go all in for a project like this, but the truth is, I wasn't down for this idea when I first heard it, and I'm still not. The only thing I like the sound of is doing a video that has the express purpose of spreading information and awareness of the Bowsercide bug. Because something like that can be seen by TOs who might make a suicide clause for Bowser. Or might not. I just wish there were more people informed about the issue. Side B grab whiffs suck, but I think I could live with that issue by comparison. And yeah Forward Tilt goes through close targets, but it's not a close range move by nature.

What has you down on the idea, can you explain your thinking?

Disagree on forward tilt. Ftilt is generally a poke for any character, but besides DK, Bowser is unique in whiffing it close. To say it's not a close range move is to make an unjustified excuse, given that 50+ characters in the game won't whiff it up close, and many will even hit characters behind them if their character models are touching. The ftilt whiff usually happens because of a character rolling into Bowser, an action they would be punished for by most characters in the game. The existence of grounded fortress doesn't justify the close range whiffing Bowser has on so many moves.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Worth mentioning a few things now that I'm at home:

1) whiffing attacks like jab/ftilt on characters like Pikachu is pretty standard. Bowser is lucky in that only a couple of moves in very situational circumstances actually whiff on smaller characters.

2) Ftilt whiffing on close range characters is not unique to Bowser or DK at all. There are various examples, Zelda, Shulk (Partially fixed), Robin and more all have ftilts that have deadzones on them.

3) The things aside from Side B and Up B's ledgesnap that you're asking to be fixed don't happen nearly enough for anyone to care/it to be gamebreaking. Here's the issues I have with the ones mentioned:

• Tough Guy being inconsistent - It's not inconsistent at all. Bowser ignores all attacks that do KB of 19 units or less. A FIXED NUMBER is literally the definition of consistency.
• Jab/Ftilt whiffing - See above, it really only happens vs small characters and even then it's not often enough for anyone to care.
• Fire Breath whiffing - This one's a bit weird but usually they get hit anyway. I can't think of a time where I thought "wow I just got punished because my entire fire breath whiffed".
• Fortress spitting people out - A blessing and a curse, you can get some mean followups at low percents because they normally trip but at high rage they can tech and punish if they're really lucky. Overall I can say that fortress spitting people out has helped me significantly more than its hurt me. If you want it guaranteed to hit them, stop moving away from them while you've got hitboxes out.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I think of all the ones listed only Flying Slam and Fortress not snapping when done backwards are the important ones. The others don't really affect too much in my experience.

Main things that need to be changed that have been said forever and still nothing has been done about them are right there^

My QoL Tough Guy change is to change how it works by changing it from it activating on 19 units of knockback or less to either the properties the Gordo has 2% and greater negate TG or up to a certain percentage all attacks that deal say 5% or less do not cause any knockback.

How many units of KB do Sheik's needles do? If it happens to literally be 20 units I'll flip out.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

My QoL Tough Guy change is to change how it works by changing it from it activating on 19 units of knockback or less to either the properties the Gordo has 2% and greater negate TG or up to a certain percentage all attacks that deal say 5% or less do not cause any knockback.

How many units of KB do Sheik's needles do? If it happens to literally be 20 units I'll flip out.

iunno

http://qldsmash.com/aeromaths2.html

have fun

 

[Cronoc]

I dislike being put in a position where I feel I have to defend my list. Every single thing on the OP list (besides maybe flame breath whiffing) has been noticed, talked about and complained about here and elsewhere by people playing Bowser. Don't make me defend the legitimacy of the things on the list. Rather, let's talk about whether there is interest in making a video along the lines of what I've proposed. Trying to tear down or dismiss various issues is unnecessary and getting ahead of ourselves.

Worth mentioning a few things now that I'm at home:

1) whiffing attacks like jab/ftilt on characters like Pikachu is pretty standard. Bowser is lucky in that only a couple of moves in very situational circumstances actually whiff on smaller characters.

2) Ftilt whiffing on close range characters is not unique to Bowser or DK at all. There are various examples, Zelda, Shulk (Partially fixed), Robin and more all have ftilts that have deadzones on them.

3) The things aside from Side B and Up B's ledgesnap that you're asking to be fixed don't happen nearly enough for anyone to care/it to be gamebreaking. Here's the issues I have with the ones mentioned:

• Tough Guy being inconsistent - It's not inconsistent at all. Bowser ignores all attacks that do KB of 19 units or less. A FIXED NUMBER is literally the definition of consistency.
• Jab/Ftilt whiffing - See above, it really only happens vs small characters and even then it's not often enough for anyone to care.
• Fire Breath whiffing - This one's a bit weird but usually they get hit anyway. I can't think of a time where I thought "wow I just got punished because my entire fire breath whiffed".
• Fortress spitting people out - A blessing and a curse, you can get some mean followups at low percents because they normally trip but at high rage they can tech and punish if they're really lucky. Overall I can say that fortress spitting people out has helped me significantly more than its hurt me. If you want it guaranteed to hit them, stop moving away from them while you've got hitboxes out.

I just went into training mode and can make Bowser whiff his ftilt at close range on Ganondorf. Ganondorf. I tried this with all the characters you listed and not one of them could whiff an ftilt on Ganondorf. Even DK's ftilt doesn't whiff. At the very least we can say Bowser's ftilt dead zone is horizontally larger than other characters with supposed ftilt whiff problems. Walk into almost any character and ftilt, Bowser whiffs. To not whiff ftilt, I have to move up to a character of DK's size. Jabs are more situational. Even if the severity of other select characters' ftilt deadzones were the same as Bowser's, that still wouldn't make it ok.

What individuals care about and what the patch team might care about are not necessarily the same. My reasoning for putting every possible issue in one place is so that they might all be considered. So let's break it down. First off, for any given issue, would it be better if it was fixed? Would you like the dev team to know that Bowser's ftilt whiffs at close quarters, or would you prefer they not know? Next, who cares? I do. Other bowser mains? Reddit? The patch team? I don't know, no one does. Would you prefer they know or not know?

Quick responses:
On tough guy - what is this semantics argument? Don't be obtuse, you know exactly what I mean by inconsistent.
On flame breath - it's probably the first one to cut from the list, yes. I tried to include everything to start off with.
On fortress spitting people out - I don't think you understand what I'm talking about. Here's an example I saved a few nights ago and uploaded now just for this post. I'm talking about people getting spat out in the middle or near the startup of fortress. It doesn't require Bowser being at nearly max rage (as in this example) to happen either.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

The existence of grounded fortress doesn't justify the close range whiffing Bowser has on so many moves.

This is actually a fair point. I know that what I'm really angry at is that "Whiffy Kong" mentality where everybody claims that when they whiff an attack at close range, it's the attack's fault. And the only response I could think of for that sort of complaining is "stop missing". Moves have effective ranges. You don't blame a move for just barely not reaching far enough. But the difference with Bowser's Ftilt is that he physically moves past targets to be right beside them. The literal hitbox seems functional.

And as much as I rant about people whining, I've seen the patch history to know that they do fix this stuff. Samus, DK, WFT, and others have had attacks tweaked for better consistency. Can't say if any of it was the result of massive outcry, but it did happen. And I know I heard about all of it before it was changed, despite not playing those characters.

iunno

http://qldsmash.com/aeromaths2.html

have fun

A weight based knockback calculator?

Will you marry me?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

A weight based knockback calculator?

Will you marry me?

ok

 

[KromosomY]

Guys, actually I'm at a lack of sleep coz I've already captured all of these couple days ago... (except Firebreath sorry Cronoc but it's really negligible imo) Sorry guys I wish I could've seen this thread sooner to let everyone know I had it covered.

I'm just getting some personal problems out of the way atm. Already begun editing the video. I believe in a couple more days the next video should be up..

Also, I'm already ahead in posting on gamefaqs.com and reddit smash sub. ala #CantBowserHaveNiceTHINGS?!
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3qxfni/so_people_been_wonderin_if_bowser_was_actually/
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/72739604
If you guys want, it's okay to go ahead and share the videos I already made in places you think it might help.

The help I could really use, is if someone could get me in contact with a popular Smash4 Commentator with backing influence.

iunno

http://qldsmash.com/aeromaths2.html

have fun

Thanks btw.

Cronos, https://youtu.be/TNUKfvHeCao?t=1m47s, if you're good for it; I could include that into my next video. I know I already showed that happening in the last video but it's a smart idea to have at it again.

 

[Cronoc]

Guys, actually I'm at a lack of sleep coz I've already captured all of these couple days ago... (except Firebreath sorry Cronoc but it's really negligible imo) Sorry guys I wish I could've seen this thread sooner to let everyone know I had it covered.

I'm just getting some personal problems out of the way atm. Already begun editing the video. I believe in a couple more days the next video should be up..

Also, I'm already ahead in posting on gamefaqs.com and reddit smash sub. ala #CantBowserHaveNiceTHINGS?!
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3qxfni/so_people_been_wonderin_if_bowser_was_actually/
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/72739604

The help I could really use, is if someone could get me in contact with a popular Smash4 Commentator with backing influence.

Thanks btw.

Take all the time you need, there's no huge rush

Let us know when you've posted something and we can go upvote it (if it's on reddit) or post in the discussion for it. For getting noticed by a known Smash 4 player/commentator, I think the thing to do is tweet the video at all of them and hope a few like it enough to retweet it and get the video some momentum.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Maybe I'll retweet it to my nonexistent followers too.

 

[KromosomY]

I think with me, that because I have no local scene, nobody to play this with.. part of me wants to see this game become mainstream really bad.. I love this game waaayy too much: the mechanics, the gameplay, but also because it has all the favourite characters I grew up with in the 90s. My mind practically blew up when they added Mewtwo, Roy back in and Ryu!! into the game!

I don't want to be playing with lag forever... especially not for a game this good! It's like the one game I've been waiting since 20 years ago.

I know from my experience playing Street Fighter 3rd strike moving over to Street Fighter 4, that Smash4 similarly has more potential, balanced, being more accessible for people to play. However that means that the characters need to be balanced out so people can play the way they want and master the way they want & I just need to see that happen so badly!

It's like 10:28am atm and I'm editing some other stuff that needs to be out of the way, heading out soon.. I guess I'm spilling coz I'm pretty tapped atm.

The funny thing is that Zapp was the one who gave me instructions on which capture adapter to get lel.

 

[Cronoc]

Cronos, https://youtu.be/TNUKfvHeCao?t=1m47s, if you're good for it; I could include that into my next video. I know I already showed that happening in the last video but it's a smart idea to have at it again.

Yeah, but my video is just 30 fps cause it's uploaded straight from my Wii U. Send me a friend request and I'll send you the replay so you can have a 60 fps version of it.

Edit: Rest assured, in the USA and parts of Europe this game is mainstream. Smash 4's competitive scene is one of the largest in the fighting game community (the other two large ones being Street Fighter and Smash Bros Melee). It may not feel like it where you are, but Smash 4 is doing pretty well for itself. Of course, it's dwarfed by DOTA competitive communities, but that's just how things are.

 

[KromosomY]

Yeah, but my video is just 30 fps cause it's uploaded straight from my Wii U. Send me a friend request and I'll send you the replay so you can have a 60 fps version of it.

Edit: Rest assured, in the USA and parts of Europe this game is mainstream. Smash 4's competitive scene is one of the largest in the fighting game community (the other two large ones being Street Fighter and Smash Bros Melee). It may not feel like it where you are, but Smash 4 is doing pretty well for itself. Of course, it's dwarfed by DOTA competitive communities, but that's just how things are.

Will send an add when I get home. Look out for a JeffreyHoong.

 

[KromosomY]

Edit: Rest assured, in the USA and parts of Europe this game is mainstream.

I meant that I want it to be a mainstream game in the South East Asia, especially in Malaysia, so I can have people to play with. Maybe over in the states it's become a norm to be taken for granted but here I'm more than dying to play with people competitively.

It is quite undaunting that little to nobody in the countries where Smash tournaments are being held, have made more of an effort to point out problems to do with the minor characters in the competitive scene. I'm disheartened that of all the youtube casters, over the whole year, I'm that some dude who's putting this video together.

 

[Cronoc]

I meant that I want it to be a mainstream game in the South East Asia, especially in Malaysia, so I can have people to play with. Maybe over in the states it's become a norm to be taken for granted but here I'm more than dying to play with people competitively.

It is quite undaunting that little to nobody in the countries where Smash tournaments are being held, have made more of an effort to point out problems to do with the minor characters in the competitive scene. I'm disheartened that of all the youtube casters, over the whole year, I'm that some dude who's putting this video together.

My impression is that video game consoles in general aren't mainstream there... am I wrong? Thought they were more about computers.

It is pretty crazy how many things have been brushed aside or unexplored. That it took until April for someone to try to compile the best way to get out of the throw combos that make up so much of the competitive meta, May of this year to explain how DI works, and close to a year from launch for a video to be made showing the best way to mash out of a pummel is all pretty embarrassing. Even more so because one gets the impression the pro players knew these things long ago. For all their success (something something esports) and momentum, Smash communities are still grassroots, and it seems if you want something done it often falls to you to do it.

In regards to mid-tier or lower characters' problems, I think there's a sense of apathy from the community - that by taking a character that isn't top 20 we should just accept that we'll have problems. This mindset ignores that for the first time in the series' history we have a team in charge of patches, who are able and authorized to make individual and global changes as they see fit. Where are the people telling Ike, DK, Wii Fit Trainer, etc players to stop wasting their time? They've shut up now because of patches. And yet the same old negativity comes out when it's suggested that another struggling mid-low tier character could be fixed/buffed, and that we might have some small ability to effect that change. The squeaky wheel is at least more likely to get the grease, and personally I'd like to be squeakier about Bowser.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

My impression is that video game consoles in general aren't mainstream there... am I wrong? Thought they were more about computers.

It is pretty crazy how many things have been brushed aside or unexplored. That it took until April for someone to try to compile the best way to get out of the throw combos that make up so much of the competitive meta, May of this year to explain how DI works, and close to a year from launch for a video to be made showing the best way to mash out of a pummel is all pretty embarrassing. Even more so because one gets the impression the pro players knew these things long ago. For all their success (something something esports) and momentum, Smash communities are still grassroots, and it seems if you want something done it often falls to you to do it.

I think Smash 4 has a good, even great track record for year one. I mean, we certainly had a lot of help from veteran players. Smash 4's framework is still quite similar to Brawl's, so their insight has been valuable to say the least. Our information is often easy to find and easy to digest as an inexperienced player. Frame Data charts, AT research, stage research, Definitions, compilations of intangibility on dodges. Do you know how much of a pain in the ass it is to test for intangibility? All gathered by people interpreting the game data files, and through 60 FPS manual video capture. Melee had a debug menu for all of that, Brawl didn't but they had animation data to match every action, and not just hitbox data like we're stuck with. Everybody that works in the lab doesn't do this for a living. It's volunteer work that takes hours of your time and a sophisticated, scholarly understanding of game mechanics. To say "if you want something done you need to do it yourself" is damned right. So you ought to appreciate what others have done explicitly for your benefit. This game has 55 characters, and everybody who competes (you know, going out there and actually playing the game they study) only mains two or three at maximum. And they contribute a great deal as well to character discussion, and especially matchup discussion.

As for that track record, if you're playing Smash 4, you have a great deal more information to work with coming into year 2. With Melee, prior to Year Five, you only know about the very basics from word of mouth. Around this time, maybe your friend emailed you a video file of one of Ken's matches that lets you see dash dancing for the first time. No ready explanation of what's happening, start labbing it up if you want to know about it. Information was scattered, rarely peer reviewed, and hidden behind mountains of forums and message boards. There were a lot of concepts like priority that people thought they knew, but couldn't always describe. To say that a certain move had more priority was usually just opinion and conjecture. Not until year Fourteen that somebody compiled all the facts into an easy to digest video. The videos and threads you linked may have taken months, but besides DI, I'd be surprised if you found detailed info on that stuff for Melee from a video or a thread. Those players still insist that you learn by example, not reading. And on the subject of DI, if this wasn't your first Smash game, you already knew about DI. What you needed that video for was info on how it's different now after vectoring was removed.

 

[KromosomY]

I think Smash 4 has a good, even great track record for year one. I mean, we certainly had a lot of help from veteran players... To say "if you want something done you need to do it yourself" is damned right.

For all their success (something something esports) and momentum, Smash communities are still grassroots, and it seems if you want something done it often falls to you to do it.

I think that's what I needed to hear. I'm still pretty used to how evolved the Street Fighter community think tank is, but I often forget how much support Capcom provides in competitions & iterations. From what I understand, in the states; Nintendo hasn't supported the SSBM scene all that much and have only acknowledged it's shift to being a competitive game very recently.

With the lack of training mode tools, a debugging mode, the ability to look at frame data visually in game or inputs data tracker; I was at a disarray myself with working primitively to simulate scenarios, get frame data properties and to communicate my findings.

I guess I'm kindda just sore with all of it lately coz I've only had access to laggy ass battles for my source of actual play.

My impression is that video game consoles in general aren't mainstream there... am I wrong? Thought they were more about computers.

You are wrong. Malaysia have had consoles since the days of the Genesis. Unfortunately however, we weren't a financially able country for the average family to afford consoles during the 90s. It was an odd luxury to own one then. When games piracy went viral in 1999 here, PC in the form of lan stores and the Sony Playstation 1 took off. Pokemon did make it through however, being that the GameBoy Colour and such was the only intelligent handheld for a while.

By the time Nintendo tried to market their games at about 2004 or so, with the nDS and later Wii in 2006, the following turned out pretty bad and survey events couldn't bring enough participants to warrant Malaysia a Nintendo Official country. In the meantime people had already assimilated with the ps2 *2000, psp, *2004 then xbox360 *2005, also due to mass piracy. Piracy is accessibility and a means of branding after all.

By the time the PS3 slim and 360S came in, and piracy became less of an option, people here either stuck with lan stores and the f2p market, or naturally transitioned to buying games at market pricing. Nintendo never caught up here because the games were just too unfamiliar or unappealing. I mean, people here just thought, "If I'm able to afford the luxury of a console, why buy the console where luxury isn't a feature?" If it wasn't for Sony's blewup with the pspGO, the nDS wouldn't have a chance here.

Nintendo did manage to break through in the last couple years *2013 however accidentally. Since Sony hasn't paid too much care to horde the IP of Monster Hunter, which was already a local favourite, players just naturally moved over to the 3DS. Pokemon was already a local favorite as well, +1. With the ps1 & 2 library filled with jrpgs. Fire Emblem and Fantasy Life was a natural selection in the 3DS library.

However with Super Smash Bros. It's still pretty irrelevant to most of the people here. It's either they're familiar with the characters but are too old, busy with life and kids to have time for games to have caught on... or too young, to know any of these characters growing up. SSB4 is seen as a novelty game here.

I guess my own personal history kind of intertwined in between all that and I love games way too much for my own good to have become an exception.