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Coming Right Back At Ya: Kirby for Smash Switch discussion

TimG57867

Smash Ace
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Aug 27, 2015
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Well 2018 worldwide will soon come to a close the world over.

Here's to making 2019 a fun and exciting year for the super tuff pink puff!
 

Stalepopcorn_

Smash Rookie
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2019!! We still doing this Kirby main thing? I feel like the pink puff ball is shaping up well still heart broken over the fact that he is being consider trash still, i beatin alot of players on online and feel like he’s in a decent spot, what does eveyone feel about him now since the games been out for a while, also i see you gonzo lol ( i still use the combo and ppl still fall for it)
 

R O F L

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2019!! We still doing this Kirby main thing? I feel like the pink puff ball is shaping up well still heart broken over the fact that he is being consider trash still, i beatin alot of players on online and feel like he’s in a decent spot, what does eveyone feel about him now since the games been out for a while, also i see you gonzo lol ( i still use the combo and ppl still fall for it)
I still feel like Kirby is garbage tier.

What I feel is negative about him so far:
  • His neutral is awful. He is super sluggish in the air and his ground speed is bad, so he can't approach. So far I've had to rely on people approaching me to actually get a hit in. However, he does have some pretty fast attacks that do help him in neutral.
  • He has a mediocre combo game. In the transition from Smash 4 to Ultimate he lost almost all D-air combos which was his good combo starter. He does have some combos, but they don't deal much damage.
  • Despite having inhale, Kirby is still bad against projectile characters. He's slow and has short range, this makes him vulnerable to being camped out. Inhale is super slow and in most cases will lead the opponent to getting a free hit.
  • He isn't too great at K.Oing people. In Ultimate he lost his Dair to Dsmash kill confirm which hurts him a lot. His Uthrow is even worse at killing people than it was in Smash 4, and his Stone is a worse shield breaker which pretty much stops all potential for him to K.O at lower percents.
What I feel is good about him so far:
  • He does have some fast attacks, making his punish game and neutral game a bit better.
  • He has good edge guarding. His Dair is great at edge guarding, the attack pushes them downward no matter where or when the opponent gets hit by it. Plus, offstage Dair strings aren't hard to do.
  • He has decent recovery. He can go a good distance, but is vulnerable to edge guarding because of how slow his air speed is.

I still play Kirby for fun, but IMO he's an awful character right now. Hopefully we will see some buffs in the future so Kirby can become viable.
 

Mogisthelioma

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So obviously Kirby is a bit weaker matchup-wise than he was in Smash 4. How have you all been able to manage with him?
 

R O F L

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The 2.0.0 Patch has released and Kirby got a few changes, thankfully all buffs.

  • Side Tilt - Slightly reduced vulnerability and extended undamaged launch distance.
  • Dash Attack - Increased power range and attack power while maintaining launch distance.
  • Stone - Adjusted the super armor frames after using the move.
I have yet to test these out, hopefully it helps him a bit.

I've just tested out the buffed moves.

Dash Attack does 14.4 damage and K.Os Lucina with no D.I at the ledge of FD at around 95%.
Dash Attack's weak hit does 10.8 damage.
Side tilt launches pretty far at low percent.
I don't know what Stone's super armor was like before, but it seems like every frame Kirby is transformed he has super-armor.

Edit: After looking at another thread. Kirby's f-tilt has less endlag, 28 frames to 24, and Stone in the air has super armor starting on frame 19.
 

Stalepopcorn_

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So this mean that Kirby dash can kill more early? Which is great, maybe they are trying to focus on more of his ground game?
 

DiasFlac

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These buffs are very underwhelming. He is basically the same character. A buff to upthrow would have been great. Making it kill a bit faster and a buff to his back air would of also been nice. I hit an Inkling at the cliff at 108% and it didnt ko him. Sadly the best things to happen to Kirby would be the other characters getting worse...
Edit: it also would of been nice if they made his side special useful in some way. Its lame that every other character who previously had specials that were only useful for certain match ups like Ness Down Special is useful in neutral now that it has a hitbox and G&W Down Special is useful against every projectile character now but Kirby Side Special is still useless.

IMO
 
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Stalepopcorn_

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it also would of been nice if they made his side special useful in some way. Its lame that every other character who previously had specials that were only useful for certain match ups like Ness Down Special is useful in neutral now that it has a hitbox and G&W Down Special is useful against every projectile character now but Kirby Side Special is still useless.

IMO
I always found that Kirby’s side b is high risk, high reward. This game is all about edge guarding and the immense amount of pressure the hammer brings is intesne. Also i noticed that you can hold side b and drop through a platform (like King K’s neutral) However, i’am not suuure if he did that in Smash4 or not.

Tho it would of been cool to reflect **** back with the hammer hahahha

So obviously Kirby is a bit weaker matchup-wise than he was in Smash 4. How have you all been able to manage with him?
Its still rough out there and hopefully they will bring us more buffs in the near future, i found myself using Fair alot more than usual. We arent really using a crutch character like most kekeke but its always satisfying to beat someones high tier with Kirby. Sooo 6/10 ;)
 

Stalepopcorn_

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Lets be real here about these buffs, granted buffs are better than nerfs anyday or no change at all, but how often do you use Ftilt and Dspecial?
 

Mogisthelioma

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Lets be real here about these buffs, granted buffs are better than nerfs anyday or no change at all, but how often do you use Ftilt and Dspecial?
F tilt is a nice approach stopper and has the same functionality as Mario's/Fox's. But yeah I never use d special unless my opponent is a blithering idiot and tries to jump up and hit me after I'm launched.
 

R O F L

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Lets be real here about these buffs, granted buffs are better than nerfs anyday or no change at all, but how often do you use Ftilt and Dspecial?
I only really use Stone to go to ledge when recovering high. Otherwise I sometimes use it when running off a Battlefield platform instead of airdodge or another air attack.

Ftilt I never use much.
 

boysilver400

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What stages are Kirby good and bad with? I know he dislikes Battlefield but I don’t know about anything else.
 

DiasFlac

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*Edited*
I've been using hammer a lot in my elite smash matches recently and Im started to see the uses for the move. It can kill most characters when fully charged as low as 30% at the ledge and about 40% anywhere else on the stage. It has a few frames of armor just as releasing it so you can use it if you think your opponent will attack you while youre doing it. It has to be fully charged to get the armor frames.

Most of the ways Ive been hitting it has been at the ledge tho. My game plan has been to get my opponent to the cliff or knocked them into the air then start charging hammer and try to predict what they will do. If it lands I get a very early kill if not then I probably get punished for it. On shield this move seems safe when fully charged unless you are against a character who has a chain grab like Samus or Lucas against other characters you should be able to shield or spotdodge before they attack you as long as it was a fully charged hammer on shield.

At the cliff what I do is charge hammer and predict the opponent ledge option.
If they get on attack jump and swing
If they roll you can turn the hammer around fairly quickly and swing
If they jump on the cliff swing early if you predict this or you can jump and swing. Most of the time Id jump and swing to land a jump onto the stage option
Keep in mind the hammer does hit at the ledge if they choose to just hang there. There is about 2second of invincible frames when you grab the cliff. Keep an eye for when this runs out and swing. Once your opponent learns they cant just sit there they will start picking the other options.

I wish I could provide clips of each and maybe I will as it seems like a fun idea. Give it a try if you all havent been already. This is a move I dont see any Kirby using and Im finding it to be very good when used well. Its even stronger than Dedede hammer by 10 feet.
 
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Kewkky

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So, which characters seem to be the worst match-ups for Kirby up until now? So far my situation is this:

> excited for Smash Ultimate
> buys it, finds out Kirby sucks
> quits after unlocking all characters
> traveled back home and played with friends, actually played better than expected. Beat a few tourney regulars that used characters like Olimar and Marth, but was uphill and were just "serious friendlies"
> decided to main Pichu, but haven't even practiced for one minute after deciding
> still very disappointed in Kirby, but desire to play is slowly overcoming disappointment and Kirby is depressingly the character I've always clicked with the most
 
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senokcoldsteel

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Joined
Aug 7, 2018
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yes. brown kirby. from kirby air ride. that one.

i know, it just looks like kirby but it's brown, but he's totally a different character, right?

i fully support this brown boy to enter smash bros. he pretty epic.
 

Miifighters4Smash5

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Messages
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What's the Point; Kirby's ALREADY A character in the game; he's one of the original 8 Fighters from the first Smash bros game ever; ON THE FREAKING NINTENDO 64!!
 

DrCactus

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Would it be imbalanced if Kirby could choose a copy ability before a match, akin to echo fighters? I think it would be a good way to compensate for his other short-comings, and keep your opponents on their toes.
 

boysilver400

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Would it be imbalanced if Kirby could choose a copy ability before a match, akin to echo fighters? I think it would be a good way to compensate for his other short-comings, and keep your opponents on their toes.
I think it would be perfectly balanced and help him a ton. Not everyone has good specials, but if he chooses correctly then he’d be...better.
 

Lunardog15

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while that would be cool there are some things Kirby probably should not have right off the bat
 
D

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I really wished Kirby was buffed, but the aspects that we wan to see buffed. So far, King Dedede and even Jigglypuff are having more results than the Super Star Warrior. And I believe even Little Mac is having better results, which leads to most people thinking he’s one of (if not the worst) character of the game.

Sakurai isn’t doing any balancing: He’s leaving it to another team to do it. It’s enough hassle for him to work on SSBU, I’d have to say. Let him have a break. But I dislike seeing Kirby getting buffs on the minor traits. The removal of d-air combos while not addressing his SSB4 flaws (Sucky recovery, terrible air mobility, and range) is annoying me.

I believe only minor buffs with glaring nerfs would be implemented (Increase damage output maybe but making his combos worse?); in accordance with the balancing team and some opinions, it would “balance” Kirby. That’s... going to make Kirby even worse.

That’s what I think but what are your thoughts to my statement?
 
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KirbySquad101

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The latest video I found of Captain L using Kirby was about a week ago, but for the most part, he does just use Pichu.

To be honest, I've pretty much given up on the little guy; as far as I'm concerned, he's still paying for the sins of Smash 64 to this day, and a lot of the issues he had in Smash 4 have been carried over here. Meanwhile, Fox gets an even stupider Up Smash and Pikachu gets a silly spike on his Down Air lul

That said, I am hoping there are Kirby mains out there that can make him work. Komota has been doing a good job in representing, so it's not like all hope is lost for the little fella.
 
D

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I mean it’s only Komota; that’s pretty much it. Elegant using him as a pocket character doesn’t count IMO.

The amount of Kirby representation I am seeing is pretty much zero. I’m literally the only one in my area that still uses Kirby. I think he is like 70th out of 77 in the roster, but his popularity is pretty much dead last (I’ve seen Little Mac more often in tournaments).

Even if his errors were fixed, he’d still be bottom tier (maybe like 60s range) since he was made to be the star of World of Light rather than an actual fighter.
 

boysilver400

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If feel like he’s less popular because expectations for him are so low, since he’s been low tier for so many games now. So I guess people are just tired of him.

That being said, if he gets the right buffs, I think he’ll at least have a shot at mid tier. He doesn’t need that many buffs.
 
D

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The problem is, he's not getting that many buffs either. Considering the fact that the developers usually don't listen to requests and that they're perfectly happy to see Kirby as the star in World of Light, he's probably stuck.

That said, Kirby's still my favorite character and I've scored a couple of victories against friends.
 

KirbySquad101

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There's also Jesuischoc who uses him at the moment.

From what I can tell, they'll most likely give him small buffs that'll build overtime with each patch, if 2.0.0 is anything to by.
 
D

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Yes, but what do you mean by small buffs?

It depends what you mean. I feel the air mobility and recovery needs to be buffed. His throw also needs to be improved as well, because...

...I don’t even know why the impact is so measly compared to other people.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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I will still like a confirmation on the random chance of Kirby dropping an ability. It is definitely higher than in previous games to the point that I've lost it four times in a match which was unheard of in previous iterations. I guess they did to justify Kirby's copy abilities 20% buff, but it doesn't make getting an ability less hard.
With that said, I'm aware of all the problems Kirby has but I will never drop him. Even though losing an ability to a love tap more often makes me want to rage sometimes, I still have fun with the little guy and have decent success against competent opponents, and that's really what is more important to me than having a competitively viable character who can get good placements at tourneys.
I was playing in a free for all arena today with him and I won almost every single match except for two of them. To be fair, most of my opponents weren't that good except for two of them. I tended to swallow people and spit them at the others. It was good fun.
 
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Lunardog15

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I would love it if it was based on %taken in 1 move instead of chance
or even if the chance increased based on %
 
D

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I’d prefer Kirby never losing his copy ability unless he taunts. That way, it will be more balanced.
Maybe buff Kirby’s airspeed? I think he’s low mid-tier now, definitely not low tier. Zero in his second tier list puts Kirby above characters like Piranha Plant and even Dedede (though I believe D3 should be a high-mid tier due to his awesome combos and purely stupendous taunts).
 

Kewkky

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Would it be imbalanced if Kirby could choose a copy ability before a match, akin to echo fighters? I think it would be a good way to compensate for his other short-comings, and keep your opponents on their toes.
If you could choose the copy ability during character selection, dying mid-match would respawn you with the copy ability again, AND the copy ability wouldn't be removed until you taunted, Kirby would be soooo much better. This would be an absolutely amazing buff, yet not strong enough to make him broken.
 

Lunardog15

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:ohwell: um... that would really make Kirby broke. I mean you could go with ddd and have a buffed neutral. go with shulk and do mad things with that monado arts buffer thing. or other crazy things that would make kirby top tier. and then comes the 20% buff to all specials.
 

Kewkky

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Nah, it wouldn't make him broken. It'll take quite a bit of fixing to get to that point. It'd just give him something to actually make him good.
 

Megadoomer

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Nah, it wouldn't make him broken. It'll take quite a bit of fixing to get to that point. It'd just give him something to actually make him good.
Kirby with the ability to use Shulk's Monado powers regardless of who he's fighting (which would become permanent online since you can't taunt) seems like it would be pretty broken - he'd basically be impossible to KO whenever he uses the Jump Art, for starters.

Even offline, the only way to remove that significant power boost in this scenario would be if the Kirby player chooses to do it, when they'd have no reason to.
 
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Kewkky

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Actually when you put it that way, it could definitely be used for stalling and stuff. Maybe not the best idea, lol.

Guess doing the whole "Kirby Super Star" thing where you can choose which power to take to a stage before starting doesn't work in Smash, thanks to a few OP ones.
 
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