Coming Right Back At Ya: Kirby for Smash Switch discussion

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mommytaylor
#2
Well... I've used Kirby in every smash brothers game, whether as my secondary main or my primary main and I don't find him TOO bad, I've noticed he's always been low tier, with the exception of Smash 64, so... hopefully we get some buffs for him

:4kirby::kirby2::kirbymelee::kirby64:
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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TPitch5
#3
Kirby has to stop being so slow in the air. 5 mid-air jumps and a recovery move that lacks horizontal movement just isn't enough. Even Super Dedede Jump offers better horizontal distance than Final Cutter, and Dedede's air speed is among the worst of any fighter (excluding Shulk's Shield Monado Art).
 
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#4
Should the roster have potentially been rebooted, I would love to see Kirby brought back with a full moveset dependent on his powerup (or lack of powerup). It's his core tenant, more than a usually-lackluster B Move would be nice to seem him adopt.
 
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mommytaylor
#5
Should the roster have potentially been rebooted, I would love to see Kirby brought back with a full moveset dependent on his powerup (or lack of powerup). It's his core tenant, more than a usually-lackluster B Move would be nice to seem him adopt.
You know, I always thought how that would work... Copying a characters whole moveset instead of their B move
 
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#6
You know, I always thought how that would work... Copying a characters whole moveset instead of their B move
I didnt think he would copy a whole moveset.
Either elements of the moveset, or more spefically, all of the characters would give him a one of say, 20 different weapon types.
It's a rough thing to call. So many love the Nintendo character hats- but I think itd make more sense if say, Mario and Charizard gave him his fire powerup. And the other half of the roster gave him his sword power up.
 

Shaymin slicker

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Shadowshaymin
#8
I hope Kirby isn't bad in this game. He isn't my main, but he's always been my secondary. At the beginning of Smash 4 I almost gave up on him because he was just so underpowered to the point where he wasn't really fun to play.
 

Elin

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ShinySilverEevee
#9
i really hope we get a good kirby this time around

it hurts that he’s ignored compared to most of the cast
 

KingDaiGurren

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#10
There aren't many things that need to be done to change Kirby honestly, better air speed, specials, and better kill set ups are really all he needs...and a dash attack that's actually...useful...
 
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#11
I definitely want more than buffs for the characters from 64 who have not had big updates. A down B to take out Luigi's vaccum and make Mario throw his hat (extra platform), a DK barrel throw if not so much more.
Let's make them as unique and true to their series' as the newcomers.
 
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mommytaylor
#12
I didnt think he would copy a whole moveset.
Either elements of the moveset, or more spefically, all of the characters would give him a one of say, 20 different weapon types.
It's a rough thing to call. So many love the Nintendo character hats- but I think itd make more sense if say, Mario and Charizard gave him his fire powerup. And the other half of the roster gave him his sword power up.
OH, That'd be rly cool tbh
 
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#16
Been maining Kirby since the dawn of time
At this point i would be content with him getting slight buffs
Dont need anything silly like top tier nonsense, just something to push him up a bit
 
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#17
I've always been a Kirby Main, but I think he definitely needs an update.
A few tweaks and buffs would be much appreciated. But, sadly, I don't think they will really do anything significant to make him more competitive since they haven't tried to before.

:kirby64:
 

CryoGX

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#20
Ya boy needs buffs

I think his defaults are mostly fine, but I do want to see his moveset reworked to address weaknesses.

+Has good combo game
+The pressure's on once you get in
-Has no range
-Can't approach
-Can't land (safely)
-Can't keep up

To address these, Kirby should have:
-More air/movespeed
-A significant gapcloser
-Faster/More versatile specials


The niche of the bait and punish character is that they lack range, but have speed to make up for it to enable the pressure once they get in. It's hard for Kirby to get in to begin with, and once he's kicked out (loses neutral) it's significantly out of his favor most of the time. Simply imagine trying to land vs a yoshi lol.

Kirby also is one of the easiest characters to rework in my opinion, as there's literally hundreds of moves you could apply to his moveset. The ones we had from 64 onward were probably just chosen due to circumstance and stayed due to convenience.

I don't like seeing this thread be dead; what kind of abilities and specials do you think Kirby should have applied to his moves this time around? Possibilities are literally endless my dudes
 
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#21
Ya boy needs buffs

I think his defaults are mostly fine, but I do want to see his moveset reworked to address weaknesses.

+Has good combo game
+The pressure's on once you get in
-Has no range
-Can't approach
-Can't land (safely)
-Can't keep up

To address these, Kirby should have:
-More air/movespeed
-A significant gapcloser
-Faster/More versatile specials


The niche of the bait and punish character is that they lack range, but have speed to make up for it to enable the pressure once they get in. It's hard for Kirby to get in to begin with, and once he's kicked out (loses neutral) it's significantly out of his favor most of the time. Simply imagine trying to land vs a yoshi lol.

Kirby also is one of the easiest characters to rework in my opinion, as there's literally hundreds of moves you could apply to his moveset. The ones we had from 64 onward were probably just chosen due to circumstance and stayed due to convenience.

I don't like seeing this thread be dead; what kind of abilities and specials do you think Kirby should have applied to his moves this time around? Possibilities are literally endless my dudes
Maybe we will see that Poll for "most wanted abilities added to Kirby Smash" added into this game instead?
I know sleep was popular. Magic. Water. Yoyo. These were just a few of the popular ablities for Kirby which were voted on twice by the global community.
 

FunAtParties

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#22
I think if Kirby swallows a projectile he should be able to copy it. I know it's not canon, but the reason why his copy ability is so useless is because a lot of characters neutral specials are trash. Giving him PK Thunder or Fire would help him way more than PK Flash. I like the idea of giving him all the characters specials, but that has potential for being way overpowered. Adding certain characters specials to a character with 5 jumps should not be underestimated.

He obviously needs an air speed buff, but also mobility creeps. I'd like for side b to be replaced with his old dash attack (but able to do it in the air as well). The hammer is useless anyway. Up b could use more utility as well, it used to have like no end lag in 64, and in PM it's got that forward swipe. Quality changes like that would be huge.
 
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Grizzexploder

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#23
Allow for Kirby to aim Final Cutter horizontally like PM
Combine Hammer Flip with Hammer Bash in the air (make the side B in the air a lot quicker), really speed up the time for the hammer to charge/fire up and come out (or just make Hammer Flip automatically the fire hammer with no charge, just like in the Kirby games), and make the side B in the air a lot quicker and grinding before knockback
 
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Kirby Dragons

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#24
Kirby's specials definitely need to be changed. Here are some ideas:

  • Side: Laser, Wheel
  • Up: Hi-Jump, Jet, Tornado, Water
  • Down: Spark, Freeze, Mirror
And Whip as a tether grab. :grin:
 
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#25
It would actually be nice to see Kirby throw a giant heart.
He has always been about friendship, and seeing him somehow utilize this mechanic from Star Allies would make me giddy.
 

Miifighters4Smash5

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#26
I'd want to see Kirby use his Robobot Armor to Wale on his opponents as his Final Smash; I Mean it's either The Ultra Sword ability or that; Since the Hypernova form is Extremely Unlikely.
 

CryoGX

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#27
It would actually be nice to see Kirby throw a giant heart.
He has always been about friendship, and seeing him somehow utilize this mechanic from Star Allies would make me giddy.
That'd actually be really interesting; it'd mainly be a matter of which special that replaced though. On impact though, it'd probably stop your opponent and give you time to smash them or something.

Honestly what I'd find really insane is if Side B got changed to Plasma, and you have to move around to charge it like in the games. Not only would you get rewarded for moving around; you'd literally have one of the biggest spacing tools in the game.
 

Miifighters4Smash5

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#28
It would actually be nice to see Kirby throw a giant heart.
He has always been about friendship, and seeing him somehow utilize this mechanic from Star Allies would make me giddy.
I cannot see that change happening; as such a Move in Super Smash bros would break the 3rd Rule Of Masahiro Sakurai's 4 Fundamental Rules of Smash Bros Characters; It doesn't fit the style of Super Smash Bros!! Smash bros is supposed to be about Combatents Fighting to the bitter end; Not Friendship!!
 

PF9

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#29
Bayonetta is the only Smasher in my headcanons who has rejected friendship outside the arena (she even thinks My Little Pony is a shriveled up POS, unlike me who enjoys it).

I actually ship Kirby with Jigglypuff (who I think is female).
 
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#31
I cannot see that change happening; as such a Move in Super Smash bros would break the 3rd Rule Of Masahiro Sakurai's 4 Fundamental Rules of Smash Bros Characters; It doesn't fit the style of Super Smash Bros!! Smash bros is supposed to be about Combatents Fighting to the bitter end; Not Friendship!!
Where from is this?
 

PeridotGX

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#32
I have nothing better to do with my life, so I made an alternate Moveset for Kirby. This really wasn't made with competitive in mind, I just made most of his moves line up with actual Copy abilities (Up-B was specifically made to help with mobility though). I don't think Kirby needs this drastic of changes, but It was for fun.

Jab Combo: Same

Up-Tilt: Leaf Uppercut. Taken from the Leaf copy ability from Kirby’s Return to Dream Land, Kirby does a quick uppercut using a pile of leaves, visually similar to Bayo’s Smashes. It’s very quick, but quite low in knockback.

Side Tilt: Broom Clean. Kirby uses a broom from the long forgotten Clean copy ability from KDL3. He swipes in front of him. It has low damage but has a windbox

Down Tilt: Balloon Burst. Kirby brings Triple Deluxe’s Circus to town! He makes a balloon and inflates it until it pops. Like in TD, it can change shape, though it has no impact on damage.

Dash Attack: Burning Dash. From more games than I can count, Fire’s dash attack/ Burning’s attack returns from Melee! It functions just as it does in the games, sending Kirby quite a bit further forward and dealing some Fire damage to whoever it hits.


Neutral Air: Twinkle Star. Same

Front/Back Air: Freezer Sparkle. From Ice Kirby’s midair attack in most Kirby Games, Kirby spews snow around him and spins rapidly. At higher percents it can freeze.

Up Air: Needle Stab. Coming from the rather forgettable Needle copy ability, Kirby stabs at the air above him.

Down Air: Stone. Near 1-to-1 his old Down-B from midair.

Up Smash: Geyser. Taken From Water from RTDL, it has a long hitbox right above Kirby.

Side Smash: Hammer. Similar to his old Side-Special, it does a lot of damage but has large lag.

Down Smash: Mirror Split: Mirror Kirby from Super Star and Robobot’s signature attack. Kirby has two Mirror images appear on both sides to deal damage. There’s decent range as well as invincibility frames while attacking


Neutral-B: Inhale. Changing this would be insane

Side B: Poison Ride. Using the Poison ability from Robobot, Kirby rides around on a Toxic pile of sludge like in Sonic’s Spin Dash, Yoshi's Egg Ride, and similar attacks. It’s slower than those attacks, but it leaves behind puddles of poison that deal damage.

Up B: Missile. Using the aforementioned Missile ability from Amazing Mirror, Kirby turns into a Missile in what can only be described as a supercharged variant of Villager’s Up B. Missile Kirby can dart around the stage quite easily, but he’s very difficult to control and he has no brakes.

Down B: Unstable Formula. Using the Doctor Copy ability from Robobot, Kirby starts to make a potion, randomly selected from four. It takes a few seconds to charge, but after that he can use it whenever. The fire one does the most damage, but has the smallest hitbox. The ice one has a larger hitbox and can Freeze, but deals less damage. The Electric one has 4 projectiles fall out of the bottle. Each projectile goes far, but does less damage. An opponent can get hit by multiple projectiles, if they touch all 4 it’s almost as much damage as the fire attack. The healing potion appears very infrequently, but heals 30%.

Final Smash: Hypernova. Using the Hypernova ability that debuted in Triple Deluxe, Kirby turns a rainbow color and starts inhaling rapidly, attempting to consume anything "close" to him (Close is about half of Palutena's Temple). If Kirby inhales someone, they take a lot of damage. Afterwards, Kirby spits out a giant star, which gets bigger depending on how many things he inhaled.

I don't play Kirby competitively, so I have no idea if this moveset is better or worse.
 
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#33
I suggest you change the title to: Kirby, you are what you eat
LOL. OK. So it's been a while since I've had the opinion that Kirby should undergo some changes. And one of the ones I consider coolest is the option of copying all special moves (B) from opponents including your Final Smash and your B-Up. This would greatly affect the character's gameplay depending on who you copy. Which is part of the fun of playing with it. Depending on the interest the Kirby Up could be maintained. Just like your FInal Smash.
Speaking of him, Brawl's was much more Kirby's face. Maybe it's just a question of balancing it. For example, forcing the player to chase after enemies / ingredients.
 
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#34
Lame suggestions I shared over in "Revamp a Veteran":

I don't really have any fundamental issues with his current moveset, honestly. Inhaling all of a character's specials does sound pretty cool on paper, but not only would it be a programming nightmare, but some specials would definitely be pretty dang OP with a floating puffball with five midair jumps.

But he definitely needs buffs. He is just so, so bad right now. (Which is surprising, given the fact he's Sakurai's son). While the intensity of his weaknesses certiantly varied between games, it was still the same basic stuff that brought him down every time; he had great options, but he just wasn't fast enough to make good use of them. So, he really dosen't need very much to become a good character. So here's some balance changes I came up with a while back.


General


  • Kirby has his Brawl voice clips again for a majority of his moves, and his “Hiiiii!” taunt.
  • Kirby has much better air speed (0.8 → 0.9). I formerly gave him air speed close to Jigglypuff, but I realized (well, actually, I read some other posts on the thread) that that actually kinda conflicts with how he plays in Kirby games. I still think he needs a tiny improvement at least, so I still boosted it a little bit.
  • Kirby has faster walking speed (0.93 → 1). This, I just now realized, would probably be a bit more impactful than an air speed boost, because his tilts are arguably some of the best aspects of him, and now he can use them a bit more freely.
  • Some of his attacks have slightly more range, because he is a little larger now. (Nothing big, just his Brawl height)

Ground Attacks


  • All three of his tilts, dash attack's final hit, and the first two hits of his jab combo have larger hitboxes.
  • Dash attack has slightly less startup (Frame 12 → 10).
  • Kirby’s up smash is faster (Frame 14 → 7). This may seem OP, but Fox’s up smash, which is much stronger and has better range, is Frame 8.

Air Attacks


  • Kirby’s n-air has no landing lag, like in Brawl; this gives it utility as an air to ground transition and a setup into his tilt attacks, giving the move some actual use now.
  • Diddy Kong was actually the one who suggested this; Kirby now has his Smash 64 forward air. It's a more reliable combo tool, hits 7 times rather than 3, deals more damage when all hits connect (12% → 18%) and has a landing hitbox that deals 3% damage.
  • Back and up aerials have larger hitboxes. Back and up air have less landing lag as well (9 frames each, rather than back air having 17 frames and up air having 12 frames)
  • Down air deals more damage on the looping hits (1% → 2%)

Grab/throws


  • Standing and dash grabs have increased range.
  • Kirby’s down throw has a different angle (63 → 90) and more damage (10.2% → 12%) and altered knockback (60 (base)/180 (growth) → 40/140), making it just like his Brawl down throw, because that was a good combo move and his current down throw is pretty much useless.


Special moves


  • Kirby’s Inhale can now suck up projectiles like Wario’s Chomp. I’ve seen this suggested often, and I fully agree. I don’t know why Wario was given this feature before Kirbeh. Seeing as how Kirby is basically, well, Sakurai’s son, I’m baffled as to how he gave this critical feature to Wario and completely forgot about Kirby, who, well, loves to eat stuff, all day every day.
  • The shockwave produced by Final Cutter now has double the range. More interestingly, it can be angled to the side like in the Kirby game's and Project M, (known as the “Cutter Dash”, it is a single horizontal slash that can be cancelled into another aerial at the end) and this applies to the custom variations as well. Always found this to be a perfectly natural change that should have been in from the beginning.
  • Kirby’s Final Smash now has Kirby and the opponent pause in place after each hit briefly before continuing with the next.

So essentially, this can be summed up as a buffed Brawl Kirby because damn, he's fun in that game. (Also, normally, I put my changes in a spoilerbox. The reason I didn't do it for Kirby is because I simply forgot to do it, and I'm too lazy to fix it.)

Also, my friend came up with an Alph/Koopalings styled alt for him. Say hello to..... Shadow Kirby.

You know...... This guy. The one on the right:



(Not official art, but I just like this fanart.)
 

PF9

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#35
Kirby is probably one of the cuter characters in the series. His Amiibo was the second I ever obtained.

The fact that Kirby is pink AND male disproves the notion that pink is a girl's color (also there are many male fans of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, this poster included, which features a pink pony named Pinkie Pie, also disproving the notion).
 

Kewkky

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#36
I probably will end up not maining Kirby this time around, but I'll have him as a secondary for fun. It gets tiring to play with a character that doesn't get ANY love and keep having uphill fights throughout whole tournaments.
 

Asdioh

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#38
I probably will end up not maining Kirby this time around, but I'll have him as a secondary for fun. It gets tiring to play with a character that doesn't get ANY love and keep having uphill fights throughout whole tournaments.
Hahaha! I've mained Kirby in every single game, but the #1 thing I wanted for this game was character reworks, especially to the older characters... and also fewer characters overall, so they could spend more time updating the older characters. I was shocked to see Mario with a Cappy costume, but no moveset changes?? And Link only got like, one move change?

So yeah, things could change before release, but if I were to place a bet, I'd say there's a good chance Kirby is low tier again. He probably received buffs, but from the looks of it, so did everybody else. It was extremely disappointing seeing them go through the characters in the E3 announcement, and like 80% of the content was Final Smashes and some assist trophies. And for Kirby it was like "Here's a new Stone visual! Also look at this final smash!" lol

The good news is that two of the moves I most wanted reworked were Dash Attack and Hammer, and Dash Attack is now the Melee version, but definitely better... and patchable! Which is great, because he had one of the worst DAs in the game in Smash 4.

Regardless of if Kirby is good or not, I like the attempts they're making at improving the competitive aspects of the game. The E3 build was kind of jank, but I'm sure they'll continue improving.

P.S. Did you guys see the Kirby in the casual FFAs just spamming almost nothing but stone and final cutter? lol
 
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