yo, i play a lot of ice climbers in melee and am pretty good. i also play olimar in PM, and am ranked on my city's PR. when i'm not feeling the oli i'll play ice climbers, however i have no idea what the **** to do. i rely only on fundamentals and melee icy stuff (so i know a lot of the desyncs and whatnot), but i have no idea how to deal with nana's AI or what to do off of a grab. any tips?
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coming from melee
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Psi Sig
Smash Journeyman
D-throw - side b can be a thing to mix up with d-air.
You can also footstool out of d-throw to set up for tech chases/regrabs on some characters
Nana will always throw up in not in hand-off distance from a ledge
You can also do glk's happy new year, which is f-throw into the late hit of nana's dash attack into up-b(which is hecka strong in pm, good kill setup)
Also just play around in practice to get used to the new ai. some general notes
- you can on control nana from much further away
- nana will follow you offstage to try help with your recovery
- you can save nana even if she's in special fall, but not until then if you up b immediately after her she wont warp to you
- check out the desync guide pm added some brawl desyncs and has some new ones of its own, its still far from complete but I haven't had the time to work on it
- watch some of the best icies, phresh, godlikekitten, sharkz, etc
- join the discord server
You can also footstool out of d-throw to set up for tech chases/regrabs on some characters
Nana will always throw up in not in hand-off distance from a ledge
You can also do glk's happy new year, which is f-throw into the late hit of nana's dash attack into up-b(which is hecka strong in pm, good kill setup)
Also just play around in practice to get used to the new ai. some general notes
- you can on control nana from much further away
- nana will follow you offstage to try help with your recovery
- you can save nana even if she's in special fall, but not until then if you up b immediately after her she wont warp to you
- check out the desync guide pm added some brawl desyncs and has some new ones of its own, its still far from complete but I haven't had the time to work on it
- watch some of the best icies, phresh, godlikekitten, sharkz, etc
- join the discord server
ilysm
sleepy
^All good stuff! Some more points (in no particular order, some are smaller but good to keep in mind):
Wow, that turned out to be kind of a long list. Sorry, I tend to get excited about this characer! Welcome to the PM boards! Hope some of this helps! ^_^
- Pummeling is way worse in this game due to the way grab-stun works in PM. Try to keep it to just one pummel at anything below like 130%. Even one pummel will let good mashers escape at low %'s, so be careful and be clean. Jump-cancel your grabs so you don't need to wait as long for Nana to catch up. Also, for similar reasons, don't blizzard between grabs.
- Synced side-b's multihits link better and it now has a pop-up hit at the end, which will give you enough time to hit most characters with an aerial at low %'s and an up-b at higher %'s if they don't DI well. Synced side-b also goes way higher than it did in Melee (if you mash hard enough, it actually looks super funny to see them shoot right up from the bottom of the screen). Popo's solo side-b also goes quite a bit higher if you mash hard enough.
- Popo can now down-b without Nana automatically down-b'ing right after him. This helps their continuous desync game a ton.
- F-air is now a true spike for both Climbers, not a meteor. Abuse it when you can, especially out of handoffs. It's damn good.
- Speaking of kill setups, Popo d-throw -> Nana regrab u-throw -> up-b is an excellent kill setup. It devastates floaties
- Both Climbers can grab ledge at the same time in PM. This is a huge buff (one of the biggest they received in PM imo), and there are a lot of positive things that stem from it. For one, up-b is way better (it's actually super good—it basically auto-snaps from a pretty good variety of distances/angles and can be very difficult to punish). You can properly stall for invincibility using up-b at the ledge now (if you do it with the right timing you can do the Nana rocket like in Melee, which also benefits from up-b's huge new kill power).
- On the topic of ledge stuff, there are still tons of neat setups to make only one Climber grab ledge for edge-guarding purposes.
- F-smash and u-smash have interpolation fixes. It's a more minor change but basically they connect better, especially when wavedashing around.
- Pivot desync into c-stick smash attack now causes Nana to dash attack, which is a little irritating because pivot desync -> smash was so good in Melee, but they've gained a ton of cool new desyncs so w/e.
- Grab desync doesn't work.
- F-tilt guard desync doesn't work.
- D-throw -> SH d-air and d-throw -> reverse d-air both still work, but the timing/spacing are a little more strict.
- Actually, I lied a little bit: d-throw -> SH d-air doesn't seem to work on spacies anymore for some reason?? It just kinda leaves them standing. But Icies can still chaingrab spacies with f-throw -> dash attack, d-throw -> ftilt on Fox, d-throw -> footstool -> regrab on Fox/Falco (haven't tried Wolf but he's the fastest faller in the game so it could be tricky), and of course regular handoffs.
- You can do Popo f-throw into Nana dashing pivot grab. If Nana grabs them far enough away, she'll just hold the opponent without throwing until Popo comes near enough to her to trigger her AI to throw (we like to call it the Nannequin; there are other ways to set it up but the above is the easiest and most useful). This can be used for a lot of cool setups (for example, it makes lining up an up-b for a kill way easier). The mechanics of this are still being explored, and there are some very very very specific spacings where Nana's AI does weird stuff, but the vast majority of the time she does the same thing.
- Nana will never randomly pummel when grabbing an opponent. She will almost always immediately throw. There are (as far as we know) two situations in which she won't do this. One is the Nannequin setup described above. There seems to be a very tiny window wherein you can buffer a Nana pummel input, but we haven't really entirely figured this out yet.
- You can airdodge out of IASA in PM, so FH instant u-air can be wavelanded out of on a Battlefield platform and anything lower.
- Wavedropping is possible in PM, and Icies have a very good perfect waveland. Mess around with it?? It's helped me with surprise b-air/d-air approaches off platforms and general movement.
- You have way more space to do handoffs on platforms now. Nana will f-throw almost anywhere on the platform facing either direction.
- While we're on the subject, platform handoffs are way harder to do the regular way, but there are some methods to make it easier.
- Learn handoffs. Get them down pat. They are incredibly good and in my opinion very necessary for PM Icies play.
- FD is not your best stage anymore. Think about counterpicks and how they benefit you/your preferred playstyle.
- There are lots of new desyncs. Give 'em a whirl, see what's fun, what's useful, what's natural, what you think is cool.
- These characters are so, so unique and cool and fun. Play them with a lot of heart!
- Popo d-throw -> Nana d-air -> Popo regrab
- Popo d-throw -> Nana side-b -> Popo regrab
- Popo d-throw -> Nana footstool -> Popo regrab (this one takes some pretty good timing and might not be universal, but it's hard to escape for a lot of characters and can go on for a while if you're good at it)
Wow, that turned out to be kind of a long list. Sorry, I tend to get excited about this characer! Welcome to the PM boards! Hope some of this helps! ^_^
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ilysm
sleepy
I think you're taking about the footstool chaingrab! Popo d-throw, Nana footstool, Popo regrab before the opponent touches the ground (the 'z' input from the grab causes Nana to do a n-air on her way down).
Footstool chaingrab is weird. It's more of a pseudo-infinite. To my knowledge smaller characters can DI the throw and the footstool to get out, but fatties are gonna have a really hard time doing that (but that's less relevant because almost anything we do out of a grab messes fatties up in general; handoffs are an infinite on them and such). And the footstool chaingrab is mashable, since you need to waitt for Nana to catch up to you after the initial grab, then wait for her recover from her n-air in order to start another rep. It's also kinda hard to do (you need to press the taunt button kind of like a shorthop, otherwise Nana will go to high to start another rep without the opponent mashing out easily) and has character-specific timing because it uses d-throw.
That said, it's still super powerful. If they can't mash out of it (which, like a lot of Icies things, is definitely doable below 100%, but the window is brief) then it can rack up damage really well. It's stationary. You can continue it pretty much indefinitely if your timing is good. And it works on pretty much every character. It's a good option if you can get the hang of it.
Footstool chaingrab is weird. It's more of a pseudo-infinite. To my knowledge smaller characters can DI the throw and the footstool to get out, but fatties are gonna have a really hard time doing that (but that's less relevant because almost anything we do out of a grab messes fatties up in general; handoffs are an infinite on them and such). And the footstool chaingrab is mashable, since you need to waitt for Nana to catch up to you after the initial grab, then wait for her recover from her n-air in order to start another rep. It's also kinda hard to do (you need to press the taunt button kind of like a shorthop, otherwise Nana will go to high to start another rep without the opponent mashing out easily) and has character-specific timing because it uses d-throw.
That said, it's still super powerful. If they can't mash out of it (which, like a lot of Icies things, is definitely doable below 100%, but the window is brief) then it can rack up damage really well. It's stationary. You can continue it pretty much indefinitely if your timing is good. And it works on pretty much every character. It's a good option if you can get the hang of it.
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1Flow
Smash Journeyman
HiroProtagonist
Smash Apprentice
1flow you know a bunch of stuff in your chaingrab tutorial is either extremely suboptimal or easily escapable right?
I think my post here covers most of ICs grab options in PM better though I missed a couple (Forward throw to fair at ledge is so much better than dthrow to fair at ledge whoops)
https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/4gpy16/a_basic_guide_to_pm_ice_climbers_grab_options/
I think my post here covers most of ICs grab options in PM better though I missed a couple (Forward throw to fair at ledge is so much better than dthrow to fair at ledge whoops)
https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/4gpy16/a_basic_guide_to_pm_ice_climbers_grab_options/
1Flow
Smash Journeyman
Yes i am aware, however, since such few people have the matchup experience, i believe that these chain grabs are acceptable. However, i do enjoy your tutorial on reddit. i read it and you got some pretty good stuff!
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