Meta Colors of Yoshi - Metagame Discussion and Tips

[Delta-cod]

The only issue I see is that to get the most mileage out of Dair we need to start it early in the jump. This makes it really 50/50 read-ish instead of a reaction type situation that occurs out of Sheik's Dthrow, for example.

I think mixing it up with SHAD is pretty solid, as most responses to Dair would be to swat us or to run away, and SHAD is nice and non committal (movementwise) such that we can adjust our trajectory to match what they do in response to the hop.

It's also worth noting that you have to be willing to eat some punishment during the conditioning phase here. Dair is still punishable on block, especially when the opponent knows how to deal with it (spotdodge the end). However, we're heavy and trades are generally okay, so it's not too big a downside in general.

 

[Codaption]

Good point, Dair's lack of range means a lot of characters could swat it away. Not really all that character-specific, hmm..

I did not know that you could spotdodge to avoid the landing hit. They're seriously that fast now? That's gotta be like, frame 2 at the very least...jeesh.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

It does have to be frame 2! Not everyone can spotdodge it at least.

 

[Vyrnx]

I'm trying to pick up Yoshi and had a few questions.

People always talk about how great Yoshi is at escaping combos, but I must be doing something wrong because I rarely can. I'm mostly talking about down throw combos, like Luigi. I know nair is frame 3 and it's amazing, but I still can't escape some combos with it. DJ in theory is good but it seems like you can't use it till much later after the dthrow (i.e. nair and AD can be used sooner? Idk).

I also always hear neutral b mentioned in the first sentence as to why Yoshi is good. I just don't like this move... I try to mix up approaches with it against people who shield a lot, but its range and start up are so bad that I usually get hit by OOS options. And ofc if I miss it's pretty bad. Any advice?

Just in general, which of Yoshi's moves are good? Right now I feel like my gameplay is limited to just eggs, fair, lots of nair and jab, occasional grabs, and uairs/usmash for kills. That's not that many moves at all. I hear people mentioned bair and dair but I haven't found uses for them/don't like them.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Yoshi's DJ and nair can only evade stings really. If they're true combos like some of Luigi's Down Throw Combos they may just not work. DJ comes out before nair until mid/late %s when AD comes out before DJ.

I have no idea what the Neutral B hype is about myself. Using it for B reverses can be nice, but for a move that slow it should be easy to react to. It is disjointed however (as all of Yoshi's grabs) so it has that which are his only noticeably disjointed options. Maybe someone else can chime in.

I'll mention some moves you haven't: Up tilt is a good combo starter and Dtilt is good in neutral because of low endlag. For killing Down B is his quickest option but sets you up for a huge punish if you miss, so use it when you're SURE you'll hit. Fsmash is long and very powerful so it also is good for reads/punishes. At really high %s some moves can start to kill like fresh Nair, Sourspot fair, bair, Down Smash, etc.

 

[Delta-cod]

I hear people mentioned bair and dair but I haven't found uses for them/don't like them.

Bair is better as an edge guard now due to the patch changes, which allow you to carry people with it. It's pretty strong, so you can catch people off stage, drag them towards the blast zone, and then kill 'em with the final hit. You can also Auto Cancel it into the ground after hit 1 or 2 to set up for some combos like Fox does with his Fair.

Dair I use primarily as a platform pressure tool. FH Dair on an opponent on a platform is relatively safe (you can drift away as they shield), and the full move should hit them or their shield. It's a pretty strong punish option in these cases. It's also decent to use if you have a read on someone's ledge option choice (i.e. they pick ledge getup, you start a Dair to wreck them as they stand).

 

[Codaption]

Egg Lay is a command grab, plain and simple. It's one of the worse ones, to be sure, but a command grab in general is a great tool that always has its uses.

 

[Micaelis]

I recently learned about "Run Turnaround Cancel" or RTC and I am still working on implementing it as permanent movement option in my neutral game. However, already it has significantly improved my ability to win the neutral against opponents who "turtle" by staying grounded, shielding a lot, and use quick reactions to respond to Yoshi's best neutral options.

If you do not know what RTC is, check out this video by @TheReflexWonder, https://youtu.be/zumpzuCnG64

In short, when a character is in full run (not just the dash animation) and you turn around the opposite way, your character enters a special animation while sliding back the opposite direction you were initially running. As long as your control stick has reached neutral again, you can perform any action as if you were standing still while still moving forward.

I find the most useful applications so far are Jab, Run Back Again, Grab, Egg Lay, Usmash, and Yoshi Bomb. The reason this is so good is because during your forward momentum you can essentially performing a minor sliding offensive/defensive option whenever you want. This makes spacing perfect Standing Grabs and Jabs really easy while increasing your threat range on the ground, forcing your opponents to respect your options more.

Doing Run Turnaround Cancel > Run Back > Run Turnaround Cancel repeatedly can enable you to quickly create and close distances in the neutral while remaining on the ground.

I firmly believe that this is an extremely important tech that all Yoshi's need in order to improve their ground game which almost is always lacking in comparison to his aerial game. Hopefully this helps someone out there be a more well-rounded Yoshi both on the ground and in the air.

 

[Eureka]

I've heard many people talk about how it's possible to only connect with the first two hits of back air to drag people into the ground as a set up akin to Fox and his forward air. Problem is though, unlike Fox, when Yoshi drags people into the ground with bair they bounce. From both experience and testing, I'm almost certain that literally every character in the game can break this setup by just mashing the a button. Even ZSS has enough time to nair out before she hits the ground again during the bounce. I'm pretty sure the reason this option works anyway is that people don't know this and try to tech like it was Fox and end up buffering an air dodge on the bounce and landing with air dodge. I feel like there's quite a bit of stuff like that Yoshi can get away with that he really shouldn't be able to because people just don't know the Yoshi match up.

 

[Codaption]

I recently learned about "Run Turnaround Cancel" or RTC and I am still working on implementing it as permanent movement option in my neutral game. However, already it has significantly improved my ability to win the neutral against opponents who "turtle" by staying grounded, shielding a lot, and use quick reactions to respond to Yoshi's best neutral options.

If you do not know what RTC is, check out this video by @TheReflexWonder, https://youtu.be/zumpzuCnG64

In short, when a character is in full run (not just the dash animation) and you turn around the opposite way, your character enters a special animation while sliding back the opposite direction you were initially running. As long as your control stick has reached neutral again, you can perform any action as if you were standing still while still moving forward.

I find the most useful applications so far are Jab, Run Back Again, Grab, Egg Lay, Usmash, and Yoshi Bomb. The reason this is so good is because during your forward momentum you can essentially performing a minor sliding offensive/defensive option whenever you want. This makes spacing perfect Standing Grabs and Jabs really easy while increasing your threat range on the ground, forcing your opponents to respect your options more.

Doing Run Turnaround Cancel > Run Back > Run Turnaround Cancel repeatedly can enable you to quickly create and close distances in the neutral while remaining on the ground.

I firmly believe that this is an extremely important tech that all Yoshi's need in order to improve their ground game which almost is always lacking in comparison to his aerial game. Hopefully this helps someone out there be a more well-rounded Yoshi both on the ground and in the air.

Huh..... being a 3ds player myself, this seems like a helpful alternative to perfect pivoting. I'll be sure to try it out.

Don't really see how Usmash benefits from it that much, though, since we can already do it out of a dash (and a reverse version with RAR).

 

[Micaelis]

Don't really see how Usmash benefits from it that much, though, since we can already do it out of a dash (and a reverse version with RAR).

It was more so added to the list due to being a good option than comparing dash Usmash to RTC Usmash. While similar, one is a direct approach while the other includes an action which generates space first enabling you to not have to shield and drop shield or spot dodge an attack but still result in an Usmash punish.

RTC Usmash is even better now with the patch's increase to Shield Stun since RTC Usmash as a punish is much more preferable than Shielding and Shield Dropping to Dash Usmash in an attempt to punish.

 

[Codaption]

So I'm sure you've all noticed Dair's newfound ability to break shields in a single go, barring sdi.

I'm just gonna casually stick this here and hope somebody comments on how likely it is to become a much bigger part of our meta until the inevitable nerf.

Has anyone considered using Dair as a way to condition people? I feel like this could work pretty well, because Dair beats a lot of options out:
-We all know what this thing does to shield... It tacks on a bunch of shield pressure and pokes reliably, meaning that for a short time almost every attack we have will either poke the shield or break it completely,
-Spotdodge doesn't last long enough to avoid the move (unless we fast fall for some unfathomable reason), and
-Rolling in kiiiinda works but we can drift back to catch it and it's a pretty dumb option to choose anyway. Be that as it may, chances are we may need to make this apparent to the other player.

This leaves two options for countering the move: character-specific options and rolling away. At this point, an empty hop becomes a fantastic bait and gives us the opportunity to chase them down and hit them hard. I'm not really sure if we would be able to nail them with Usmash in this scenario, so it'd be fantastic for somebody to test this for me in their spare time, but for the moment I'm willing to go on the assumption that our speed would let us reach them in time. Dash Attack would also be a solid choice; if you guess wrong, it's pretty difficult to punish, and if you guess right there's no way that boot's not gonna connect. We could also empty hop and meet them with an Fsmash should they not realize that rolling in doesn't work.

Thoughts? Criticisms? I feel like this is a solid 50/50 that could work wonders if people began to apply it.

*whistles*

 

[Eureka]

So I'm sure you've all noticed Dair's newfound ability to break shields in a single go, barring sdi.

I'm just gonna casually stick this here and hope somebody comments on how likely it is to become a much bigger part of our meta until the inevitable nerf.



*whistles*

I think dair has definitely benefited from the changes to shield stun. However, keep in mind the move is far more likely to shield poke instead of getting a shield break due to the way the hitboxes are positioned. Also because it has poop range and no disjoint just about every character in the game beats it with an up smash. I've seen to many Yoshis lean to heavily on dair and eat a charged up smash for it.

Still the move does over 30 freaking percent and potential new uses for it should most certainly be looked into. But considering how easily up smash beats dair I think it's best used as a surprise option because it will lose to most up smashes if it becomes predictable.

 

[muddykips]

the more i fight people, the more i notice theyre catching on you can just jump backwards away from dair, or simply step back until yoshi hits the ground.

it's not that hard, and they get a free punish. dair aint safe.

 

[Delta-cod]

the more i fight people, the more i notice theyre catching on you can just jump backwards away from dair, or simply step back until yoshi hits the ground.

it's not that hard, and they get a free punish. dair aint safe.

Dair is safe on shield now, though. You don't use it on someone who can run away, you use it on someone you've gotten to shield (or on a hard read, yay!).

You might think people can reliably react to the start up, but it's tougher than you think, especially now that Fair is better so we should be conditioning with that. You get them to shield the Fair but then it's Dair and they're sad.

Dair shouldn't be you Level 1 move in neutral. That's probably still gonna be Fair/SHET. But then you mix in the Dair once they've gotten into the groove of dealing with the other options, and then there's profit to be had because it scares them to shield.

 

[Eureka]

Dair is safe on shield now, though. You don't use it on someone who can run away, you use it on someone you've gotten to shield (or on a hard read, yay!).

You might think people can reliably react to the start up, but it's tougher than you think, especially now that Fair is better so we should be conditioning with that. You get them to shield the Fair but then it's Dair and they're sad.

Dair shouldn't be you Level 1 move in neutral. That's probably still gonna be Fair/SHET. But then you mix in the Dair once they've gotten into the groove of dealing with the other options, and then there's profit to be had because it scares them to shield.

Agreed, dair is great but only if it's used in moderation with Yoshi's better neutral options.

With the new changes to shield stun I think we should take a through look at what new options and applications may be available. Is there a data sheet already that lists the safety of Yoshi's moves under the new shield stun formula? In particular I'm wondering about fair, f smash, and second hit of down smash and if they're safe now.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Fsmash is defenitly not safe.

 

[Shaneomac38]

So a quick question: How do you wave bounce neutral B and face the same direction.

For example the one vine showed Yoshi facing to the right, wavebouncing neutral b to the left but yoshi was still facing right

Never mind I just figured it out xD

 

[TheRedLemming]

Yoshi stuff?
Egg toss games:
So, everybody knows, "Slide eggs" (Jump canceled eggs out of dash) and how you can B-turnaround them, and also B-Reverse them, if you weren't aware you can do something like a Wavebounce Slide Egg for some "I'm coming at you, and am definitely going to throw an egg at you while also no longer coming at you."
I don't know it's full effect on the meta, but I just saw it as a possible option in the neutral.

Grab games:
We all know yoshi's grab is incomprehensibly bad and not super great to talk about, but some possible options both into and after grabs can be as follows:
Jabs (1+2) -> Dash Grab (pummel to release -> Jabs (1+2) into whatever you normally use to follow up jabs.
I tried this against an ike and my entire string (not a total combo) did 85% to him without any trouble.
It should be noted that the grab is more effective on Slow characters than fast ones, so your sheik's and sonic's aren't going to be super grand, but your DK's and Ike's are going to give you a LOVEly time with this.

Combo/String stuff:
This is useful against a lot of characters, two Uairs true combo, if you're moving with your opponent via a double jump Utilt-Uair Combos, Double Jump, Uair Uair, can be an effective damage rack and the last follow up can be an egg.
Starting from a utilt again, uair DJ Uair and a properly spaced Fair-meteor is also effective, and can have a better follow up than an egg.
Dtilt can lead into some interesting strings I've not gotten to fully test, but it feels satisfying to Dtilt(Trip) -> Dair.

Misc Stuff:
At the peak of a Full Hop on Battlefield you can use Egg roll from underneath the platform to get rid of that weird hop that happens when you use it from the air, could be a potential punish move?
Bair, while not super useful against a grounded opponent can give you some pretty decent defensive options for conversions.
Double Fair is awkwardly stylish and fun to use.

Keep up The 20EggsEggs. We'll get some results soon maybe?

 

[Codaption]

Starting to have a lot more confidence in Bair than I used to- seems nice on platform stages, and it's actually pretty good at catching people offstage. Strikes a nice balance between Nair and Fair as far as edgeguarding goes, I'd say.

 

[TheRedLemming]

What do we make of this?

Is it something yoshi can use or naw?

 

[Jaguar360]

What do we make of this?

Is it something yoshi can use or naw?

Yoshi can make good use of it from my experience with his high air speed plus decent enough distance on the slide. U-tilt benefits a lot from it as do jab and d-tilt.

 

[Codaption]

It's an easy tech to learn that benefits every character at least marginally. Definitely worth knowing how to use.

 

[muddykips]

playing around with it, dtilt seems to cancel your slide, which is a shame. still probably good for setting up dtilt > fair spike offstage

wish yoshi had a good bair in case the opponent meets us halfway, but at least he's got dj armor, i guess?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Dtilt always cancelled slides.
We tried numerous times with DR back in the day.

 

[YoshiYoshi]

I've nearly run out of things to talk about Yoshi, but I'd like to comment on how good Yoshi's full-hops are.

Yoshi's full-hops are very good. Yoshi can N-air twice, U-air twice, F-air twice, B-air once and a third, almost any combination of the four, Egg-Lays with each, mix in a double jump or a fastfall, etc, etc. So many mix-up possibilities, in my full-hops I feel like I have like, 40+ different moves at my disposal that can be executed at any time.

Full hop N-air into N-air particular has been a very good strategy adjustment for me lately. Doing this you can pressure shield and wait for a response. It's not too hard to avoid or punish their reaction, if they make one. If they don't react at all, you have successfully spaced them out for the time being. Not a huge win, but at least you're controlling the tempo of the game.

On the other hand, SH N-air is very unsafe and I have retired almost all non-OoS SH N-airs from my playstyle. Same with trying to space with SH F-air. I only go for that on guaranteed hits now, it's still too unsafe. I've been doing it more for the delayed hit that before, it seems your just as likely to get punished landing perfect SH F-air as you are when you slam your face on the ground.

One neat thing about FH N-air is that the weak hit can combo into another N-air. I think that's neat, but I wish the hitbox lasted a little longer. It's really hard to tell by sight when it ends (which might explain why people keep bumping into the late hit for me).

 

[Shaneomac38]

Be mindful against Footstools....I just lost a close game with one of the best in my region against a stupid footstool.

Since we don't have a third jump that literally takes away any chance of us to recover...happened to me twice in one day.
Also catching opponents in a FAIR on stage and reacting to either them teching the ground (possible follow up with a NAIR) or them missing the tech and following with either an UAIR or USMASH or both (depending on percentage)

 

[Cat8752]

Hey guys, I want to pick up a secondary (as a Yoshi main,) but have been pretty indecisive about it thus far. Thinking Pit would be good for MU coverage. What would you guys recommend?

I've nearly run out of things to talk about Yoshi, but I'd like to comment on how good Yoshi's full-hops are.

Yoshi's full-hops are very good. Yoshi can N-air twice, U-air twice, F-air twice, B-air once and a third, almost any combination of the four, Egg-Lays with each, mix in a double jump or a fastfall, etc, etc. So many mix-up possibilities, in my full-hops I feel like I have like, 40+ different moves at my disposal that can be executed at any time.

Full hop N-air into N-air particular has been a very good strategy adjustment for me lately. Doing this you can pressure shield and wait for a response. It's not too hard to avoid or punish their reaction, if they make one. If they don't react at all, you have successfully spaced them out for the time being. Not a huge win, but at least you're controlling the tempo of the game.

On the other hand, SH N-air is very unsafe and I have retired almost all non-OoS SH N-airs from my playstyle. Same with trying to space with SH F-air. I only go for that on guaranteed hits now, it's still too unsafe. I've been doing it more for the delayed hit that before, it seems your just as likely to get punished landing perfect SH F-air as you are when you slam your face on the ground.

One neat thing about FH N-air is that the weak hit can combo into another N-air. I think that's neat, but I wish the hitbox lasted a little longer. It's really hard to tell by sight when it ends (which might explain why people keep bumping into the late hit for me).

While I do find the thought of exploring fullhop options interesting, I would recommend not completely retiring SHop aerials. SH Nair can be fastfell for autocancels iirc and I know SH Fair has autocancel frames if you're relatively quick. Another problem with a fullhop is that we are putting ourselves much higher than our opponents will be. We might have options for going up, but the difficulty will be in getting back down.

 

[Delta-cod]

Hey guys, I want to pick up a secondary (as a Yoshi main,) but have been pretty indecisive about it thus far. Thinking Pit would be good for MU coverage. What would you guys recommend?

A good top tier is basically the only real choice here. Any lower tiered character will usually have the same flawed MUs Yoshi has, so you need to look at the best. Diddy and Sheik are usually the go-to characters to pick up.

Also, please refrain from double posting (posting twice in a row) in the future. Use the edit function to add more content to an existing post if necessary.

 

[TheRedLemming]

The video isn't up yet, because it's in the uploading process right now, but here is an example (sans voice) of Wave-bouncing Slide eggs as Yoshi while on the ground, I've gotten some really good use out of this technique against characters like Cfalc, Fox, and Ryu.
I think this tech could get use from people who are better than me if they haven't mess around with it yet.

 

[Cat8752]

The video isn't up yet, because it's in the uploading process right now, but here is an example (sans voice) of Wave-bouncing Slide eggs as Yoshi while on the ground, I've gotten some really good use out of this technique against characters like Cfalc, Fox, and Ryu.
I think this tech could get use from people who are better than me if they haven't mess around with it yet.

I've implement b-reverse eggs, (although not grounded b-reverses very often,) but not wavebounces. Time to hit the lab I guess lol

 

[TheRedLemming]

I've implement b-reverse eggs, (although not grounded b-reverses very often,) but not wavebounces. Time to hit the lab I guess lol

Should mention - It feels like it's easier to do it properly in a Claw-hold of the controller instead of standard

 

[Cat8752]

Should mention - It feels like it's easier to do it properly in a Claw-hold of the controller instead of standard

Claw hold, sounds like something that takes a while to get used to :/ seems like I can't use jank button layouts to get out of this one >-<.

Btw, is there some weird thing with timing in b-reverses, because I've gone on 1/4 speed hold L training mode and could seems to make wavebounce egg lay work.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Okay idk what we're talking about right now, didn't check, but I wanna put the idea of Grab releases back on the table.

Basic bullets on grab release

• We have 1 known onstage grab release option that is guaranteed (Air release Dash attack on Sheik)
• We have no known offstage grab release options
• We can force an Air release on any character in the game by not pummeling
• We cannot force a regrab off of a grab release, the grab box will go right through them

So yeah seems pretty weak, but getting grab released always has a set distance. And against some characters I think we can use it to force some 50/50s. For example I didn't test it too hard, but on captain falcon and Mario, if they do not jump, they do not have any other option that can avoid a dash attack followup. In marios case if he doesn't jump he can eat an upsmash. Some characters with slow jabs. I'm not suggesting that we put in a bunch of man hours and get a big project going to figure out what cool stuff we can force (tho id honestly like that lol) But i think at the very least in some problem matchups, it can be a thing to keep in mind when hitting the lab about ways to deal with some characters.

 

[Delta-cod]

I believe the last patch for this game will be coming out around the holidays. I think that's an ideal time to start some of our large scale projects for some options worth considering. I started something like Down-B under platforms a while back that I sorta let fall off, and I think I'll pick it up when the patch drops.

On Grab Releases -- They might also worth be considering off the edge. They will generally tend to drop people low, meaning we could potentially setup some nice edgeguarding situations against specific characters.

 

[Sinister Slush]

To be honest, since it feels like the big streamers (vgbc CT) D1 sky etc. seem to have connections with nintendo I wouldn't be surprised if they even bothered with the Smash 4 BR finally cause the top dawgs of Smashboards know this might be the last big patch.

I was thinking of fixing up all my threads once it was January anyways.

 

[muddykips]

whoaah whoah wait. whats this about the holiday patch being the last [big?] one

is it because they're making a backroom? i can't think of any other recent news that'd imply The End

like when the direct left off on "special broadcast", i thought that meant they were gonna discuss a bunch of future updates plus MAYBE also release a holiday one

 

[noft]

Yoshi stuff?
Egg toss games:
So, everybody knows, "Slide eggs" (Jump canceled eggs out of dash) and how you can B-turnaround them, and also B-Reverse them, if you weren't aware you can do something like a Wavebounce Slide Egg for some "I'm coming at you, and am definitely going to throw an egg at you while also no longer coming at you."
I don't know it's full effect on the meta, but I just saw it as a possible option in the neutral.

Grab games:
We all know yoshi's grab is incomprehensibly bad and not super great to talk about, but some possible options both into and after grabs can be as follows:
Jabs (1+2) -> Dash Grab (pummel to release -> Jabs (1+2) into whatever you normally use to follow up jabs.
I tried this against an ike and my entire string (not a total combo) did 85% to him without any trouble.
It should be noted that the grab is more effective on Slow characters than fast ones, so your sheik's and sonic's aren't going to be super grand, but your DK's and Ike's are going to give you a LOVEly time with this.

Combo/String stuff:
This is useful against a lot of characters, two Uairs true combo, if you're moving with your opponent via a double jump Utilt-Uair Combos, Double Jump, Uair Uair, can be an effective damage rack and the last follow up can be an egg.
Starting from a utilt again, uair DJ Uair and a properly spaced Fair-meteor is also effective, and can have a better follow up than an egg.
Dtilt can lead into some interesting strings I've not gotten to fully test, but it feels satisfying to Dtilt(Trip) -> Dair.

Misc Stuff:
At the peak of a Full Hop on Battlefield you can use Egg roll from underneath the platform to get rid of that weird hop that happens when you use it from the air, could be a potential punish move?
Bair, while not super useful against a grounded opponent can give you some pretty decent defensive options for conversions.
Double Fair is awkwardly stylish and fun to use.

Keep up The 20EggsEggs. We'll get some results soon maybe?

ok so eggbouncing? i am proficient at moonbounce egglay, i use the tilt stick with special triggers, im not exactly sure how to egg bounce though, is it the same concept of grounded moonbounce egglay? also has anyone figured out how to consistently backwards crawl slide out of aerials, ive got a vid of me accidentally doing ill post in the labs later

 

[Sinister Slush]

whoaah whoah wait. whats this about the holiday patch being the last [big?] one

is it because they're making a backroom? i can't think of any other recent news that'd imply The End

like when the direct left off on "special broadcast", i thought that meant they were gonna discuss a bunch of future updates plus MAYBE also release a holiday one

I faintly remember a bunch of the big streamers commentators etc. making tweets about patches back then and knowing somewhat when the dates are and who was in whatever patch or what was in it cause ties with ninty and able to experience stuff before players do since they hold more power. (like D1 being twitch staff)
The fact the Smash 4 BR is being made feels almost random after like a year of nothing and there still is no Application thread yet for outsiders, 90% of the people in it are mods currently.

So possibly this December patch might be the last one is what I was guessing.

That aside, I'm gonna seriously fix up this thread and add a bunch of stuff to make this a true guide since it's only kinda half an unfinished guide, I wanna get back to the Egg toss stuff CelestialMarauder~ had half done, maybe a platform guide too.
Stuff @GSM_Dren did with Uthrow on Battlefield platforms (might work on SV and T&C too since platforms we can fullhop bair autocancel on means we can possibly do the Uthrow stuff on those two as well since same distance from ground) @YoHeKing and I can help with that, and just generally fix up the OP since many patches have happened since April like the removal of Neutrals sliding off ledges/platforms more Shield/roll changes and other bits and pieces.
Along with Delta-cod and some of us fix up the advantage disadvantage and other states due to the increased shield stun stuff.

Yick... I hate having to tag people, feels like I'm on twitter, Urk. Anyways, I'll most likely wanna do all this mid Jan or in Feb, browsed through the pages again and there's actually a lot of info I meant to edit in but forgot to do. Rather edit/update this thread with a huge update instead of small things, Uthrow on the 3 main Neutral stages might become good for us if we work and lab it up seriously.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Finished a block advantage chart for Yoshi's attacks. You can compare against pre-patch to know how much moves have improved. Let me know if you have any questions about how shields work.