Meta Cloud Video Thread (Matchups/Techs/etc;)

[_Nives_]

Here some replay from a tournament i am actually in a loosing streak against him. So i would like some advice about my cloud and this Mu thanks in advance

 

[Virum]

Here some replay from a tournament i am actually in a loosing streak against him. So i would like some advice about my cloud and this Mu thanks in advance

*snip*

As somebody who has also played Scarhi, as well as somebody who has played Shulk a lot in the past and plays the character rather similarly (though his Shulk currently is tighter than mine ever was) there are key things that you weren't and were doing here that meant he was overwhelming you in neutral often when he shouldn't have been.

The first thing is that you should camp Limit a lot more. Shulk's approach is incredibly mediocre and he relies a lot more on the opponent's whiffing outside is range and punishing accordingly than trying to force his way in. His approach becomes a little more threatening in Speed due to his pivot grab being an additional option as well as cross-up NAir going really far across you but the key thing to keep in mind is that Shulk has the slowest set of aerial buttons in the series in terms of start-up. As a result your objective is to force him to come into your zone of control, adjust your spacing accordingly to put him into a punishable position and then punish on reaction. Cloud excels in this because he has the mobility, range and frame data to play the best reactive game of any sword character in the cast. Shulk by comparison can't play this game as well, and more often has to try to impose his will on you with his range, hitboxes and surprising safety (NAir, BAir and FAir are all fantastic for this).

Vs each of Shulk's arts you'll want to tackle them all a little differently:

- Vs Monado Jump Shulk will spend a lot of time in the air. Typically you'll want to shadow under him and catch him from below. UAir and NAir from this position beat almost all of Shulk's options particularly if you can bait him into committing to something. However this is the art where Shulk overall is hardest to catch. If the Shulk opts to jump around through the skies and play incredibly evasive it's often the best to remain alert to any incoming mix-ups. Jump overall is probably Shulk's most versatile art but it he suffers the most damage while in it so capitalise on your hits when you get them. If you catch his double jump take your hit to the bank. If Shulk UThrows you, airdodge should be your go to option at mid percents as even if they read it they can't kill you (whereas they can kill at as low as around 60-70% with UAir if you don't airdodge, it's one of the overall strongest UAirs in the game)

- Vs Monado Speed Shulk's overall approach becomes more threatening as I mentioned before. Even in Limit Cloud is still slower in terms of movement speed than Speed Shulk but he can just about keep up. This is generally here you want to attempt to set up your wall with stuff like retreating NAirs and jabs. If he manages to grab you always DI away as that's what makes it hardest to get a follow-up after a throw. Watch out for the buffered deactivated USmash as well if he decides to sit at mid-range (I don't know how much Scarhi opts for this now but it's something that can catch one off guard).

- Vs Monado Shield sit and camp until it runs dry. There is no point in approaching him as nothing you have can effectively get rid of him until stupid high percents. His approach becomes absolutely dismal in Shield so all you have to do is get away from him and press Down B. If you've already got Limit charged simply keep away from him. If you're able to sneak a hit on him exploit his awful mobility and keep pummelling him with well placed hits (you did this perfectly at the end of game 2).

- Vs Monado Buster can be scary. Be weary of the fact that his moves become safer so adjust the buffer timing of your oos options accordingly. The other scary thing is the fact that if he lands a hit due to reduced knockback he keeps you in his general zone of control so he can keep landing hits and mix-ups. Remember in general to DI away and try to force a whiff and punish accordingly. If he UThrows you never airdodge, always double jump. If he DThrows you or FThrows you again DI away. If he goes for the BThrow, land and turn around to face him so your back isn't to him if he wants to throw out the rogue Back Slash.

- Vs Monado Smash it's similar to Shield. Just keep away from him. He'll likely try to commit to hitting you with something strong however everything Shulk does in Smash is super unsafe. The thing you have to be most weary of is BAir due to its incredible range. Although Shulks tend not to opt for Smash too often due to its risk and it overall being regarded as the worst art, keep it in mind nonetheless and hard punish his stuff accordingly if he does something unsafe like a smash attack.


In terms of other general things try walking more and mixing up your movement in general. You did a lot of back and forth foxtrotting but without the true intent of Cloud's foxtrot (which is to bait your opponent into an approach or force a mis-spacing and punish accordingly). Try not to sit in shield after he lands a hit on you as he was getting a lot of free, easy grabs because of it (particularly prevalent in game 1). Shulk in general has to be quite meticulous with how he spaces things otherwise he becomes very easy to punish, as a result you can micro-space round his zone of control with stuff like walks and empty hops to force whiffs and punish.

Cloud wins this MU pretty solidly, but you pretty much have to play largely reactive otherwise you'll find yourself getting hit a little too often.

 

[_Nives_]

thanks for the in depth analysis on shulk, i was leaning more for a 50/50 because of how easy shulk can gimp us. Next time i try your advice.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

My debut of Cloud as a main. I'm wondering if anyone can give me a few tips on the ditto, such as out of shield abilities and punishes I may have missed.

I'm the Advent Cloud, by the way.

 

[Sonny Franceschi]

hello , i just do this vid a minutes ago with my cellphone and i want to share with all of you guys, i hope enjoy it, i really love cloud and i perform since day one on my country

 

[Yσנιмιтѕυ]

Apparently MK Leo has a cloud. It's scary.

 

[Laken64]

We all know Cloud is gimpable but this is just plain scary to watch if you can't always snap to ledge or have LB. Thoughts on this?

 

[HFlash]

We all know Cloud is gimpable but this is just plain scary to watch if you can't always snap to ledge or have LB. Thoughts on this?

Don't use double jump if you don't have to? That and air dodging into the ledge and then snapping with the first part of up B is a really underutilized tech with Cloud.

 

[Virum]

We all know Cloud is gimpable but this is just plain scary to watch if you can't always snap to ledge or have LB. Thoughts on this?

1) Don't waste Cloud's double jump if you don't have to
2) Get more consistent at spacing Up B
3) Make use of the early ledge snap at the start of Up B by recovering parallel to the ledge
4) Mix up by recovering high (though this of course can be caught off by power shielding to buffering a fast button)
5) If you still do get grab released, you can Blade Beam towards the stage and attempt to recover again with low Up B.

These aren't directed towards you specifically, more general statements.

 

[RadiantHero]

How are u guys fairing the Ike matchup? I notice it's always 50/50 but I can't grasp it well enough

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

How are u guys fairing the Ike matchup? I notice it's always 50/50 but I can't grasp it well enough

I think it's 55-45 Cloud, but Ryo thinks otherwise. Of course, Ryo fights M2K, where the Cloud in my area plays the complete opposite of him.

That being said, Cloud has tons of advantage on platform stages, only going 50-50 on FD and SV. Here's a perfect example of how bad the Ike Cloud matchup can go if Ike doesn't play the MU perfectly.

 

[_Nives_]

Hey guys me again. this i get bodied by glutonny french top player i have a trouble with his wario. bayonetta and falcon i handle them. I thinks it's a lack of knowledge in the Wario Mu. so has always any type of advice is appreciated. Also i am a aggro cloud i use lucario for a more defensive style

Round 3 winner

 

[BusterWolf]

Here's Komorikiri steamrolling an entire team

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

How do do against Cloud?

 

[Stryker|1stclass]

Hey guys I wanted to discuss this option. I haven't read the whole thread to see if you guys have discussed this but here's a video of it.


I was exploring getup and wakeup options in limit and thought this was pretty neat. Using the invincibility from getup from the ledge to use the invincibility from limit climb hazard. I think it's a really safe option and does start killing some of the cast around 130% but I haven't lab that out completely.

What do you guys think?

 

[Stryker|1stclass]

How do do against Cloud?

Dark Pit 60:40, Cloud's favor.

Fox 55:45 (Cloud's favor) not an easy matchup by any means.

Marth 50:50 due to spacing , I feel the player who spaces the best and edgeguards the best wins.

Rosalina & Luma is 50:50. Rosa can out space and super edgeguard cloud, luma is always a pest but cloud can kill super early.

Shiek 55:45 (Shiek's favor) Her neutral and edgeguard game is too strong. Gotta camp hard and know when to go in.

ZSS is 50:50 because she has a lot of anti airs and a good juggle that challenges Cloud's. Plus better recovery and edgeguard tools. Cloud can still juggle and kill early though.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Dark Pit 60:40, Cloud's favor.

Fox 55:45 (Cloud's favor) not an easy matchup by any means.

Marth 50:50 due to spacing , I feel the player who spaces the best and edgeguards the best wins.

Rosalina & Luma is 50:50. Rosa can out space and super edgeguard cloud, luma is always a pest but cloud can kill super early.

Shiek 55:45 (Shiek's favor) Her neutral and edgeguard game is too strong. Gotta camp hard and know when to go in.

ZSS is 50:50 because she has a lot of anti airs and a good juggle that challenges Cloud's. Plus better recovery and edgeguard tools. Cloud can still juggle and kill early though.

Sorry I forgot a few. What about ?

 

[supremE_]

https://www.twitch.tv/e1337ent/v/69037999

My match starts at around 1:08:15, any criticism is appreciated. Not sure how to really rack up damage so I see myself fishing for the side-b a lot.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Went up against Vinnie at MomoCon. Switched to Cloud on Game 2.

 

[DrizzyDrew]

I talk about APEX and using Cloud in tournament, enjoy!

Link: https://youtu.be/S-XKgXrHDNk

 

[_Nives_]

i enjoy your game rango.
Can you tell me at witch % my down B would have kill on this set up ?
https://www.twitch.tv/saltyarena/v/73121316?t=02h04m02s

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

i enjoy your game rango.
Can you tell me at witch % my down B would have kill on this set up ?
https://www.twitch.tv/saltyarena/v/73121316?t=02h04m02s

I actually don't know about Finishing Touch kill percents, especially if they're used in the air.

My rule for ground is no less than 60% on any character.

 

[RadiantHero]

So I was talking to my former clan, Team Diamond. They said our main, Cloud, is so broken/op he doesnt have any bad matchups. My opinion, I wanna list some matchup ratios. Is this correct?

Clouds Matchups (w/percentage ratios)

Ike 51/Cloud 49 (tough matchup)
Mario 51/Cloud 49 (worse matchup)
Corrin 50/50
Bayonetta 49/Cloud 51(Clouds forward smash trumps witch time)
Pikachu 52/Cloud 48 (if they can edgeguard correctly)

I know Im missing some stuff, but this was just made on the spot lol

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

So I was talking to my former clan, Team Diamond. They said our main, Cloud, is so broken/op he doesnt have any bad matchups. My opinion, I wanna list some matchup ratios. Is this correct?

Clouds Matchups (w/percentage ratios)

Ike 51/Cloud 49 (tough matchup)
Mario 51/Cloud 49 (worse matchup)
Corrin 50/50
Bayonetta 49/Cloud 51(Clouds forward smash trumps witch time)
Pikachu 52/Cloud 48 (if they can edgeguard correctly)

I know Im missing some stuff, but this was just made on the spot lol

After watching Rain vs. VoiD, I've lost confidence in Cloud vs. Sheik. While he does better against other, fast characters, like Diddy and Sonic, Sheik seems to be one you gotta avoid. She gimps him easily and matches him in the neutral.

Cloud seems to destroy Ike. Tweek sees it that way, other Ike mains don't. I've played very, very strong Cloud players, and I feel if we don't get the gimp, we lose completely in neutral. Plus Cloud has his own tools for gimping us, such as Nairs and Dair spikes. It's a matchup that always gets me nervous.

Mario never does well against sword characters. If he doesn't get the FLUDD and Cape gimps, I don't see him winning overall. He's got safe moves and great autocancels, but lacks tools to truly get in on Cloud.

Pikachu seems like an absolute pain to fight. Gimping tools for days and overall very fast. If Pikachu is playing safe and not throwing out unsafe hitboxes, it could turn out bad.

 

[RadiantHero]

alright cool.

 

[RadiantHero]

How do do against Cloud?

Shiek is a nightmare for Cloud Players. Shiek can needle gimp cloud, or bouncing fish Cloud offstage
ZSS is honestly 50/50 in my opinion, the Cloud main has to shorthop often to avoid getting grabbed.

 

[Crystanium]

Hey, Rango, I'm not sure if you remember playing against me long ago in SSBB online. (I formerly went by "Dryn".) Still using Ike? He's a fun character from what I tried in Sm4sh.

Regarding the first match, you seemed to land a lot on Vinnie, allowing him to punish you. I recall one of your recoveries with Side-B causing you to land onto the stage, rather than onto the ledge. I'm not sure if that was an accident. You were successful in your other recoveries. In your second match, I saw similar results. Cloud's d-air is unsafe to fight back because of its disjointed hit box and how long it stays out. Your opponent would need to try hitting you from the side for a safe counter.

Also, when your Limit is complete, it will give Cloud stat boosts, so this can be rewarding if you hang on to it. If you find an opening, use it. Hanging on to it could also help you recover safely if you're hit too far off the stage. This could also psych out your opponent as he/she will be anticipating it the whole time you have it.

By the way, are you deaf, or is the person you called over deaf?

 

[Conet]

Anyone know any vods with cloud vs pika where I can learn the matchup from.
Preferably top players.
Thank you.

 

[Sonny Franceschi]

hello, i hope everyone has a good weekend, the previous sunday we have a tournament on my country and i win, but i don't feel to much confidence about my gameplay yet, i want to share my matches and i'm open to receive, critiques, opinions and i want to know what i need to improve more, example: i read in a lot of places, cloud is good matchup against falco but in my experience i can't deal to much well against him, he just like free gimps and follow ups on grabs

winner finals : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vB6zRJG3qA (cloud vs falco = i loss)

loser finals : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2S63AfDMkA (cloud vs fox = i win)

grand finals : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYVJFQq-fIk (cloud vs falco = i win)

thank you for you help

 

[Chiroz]

Digital Strider vs Sharpy, Dominican Republic BeSmash 2016 Grand Finals.

Both players are super high level players and this set was just super hype.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcUrN4TkY24

 

[Skyfox2000]

Digital Strider vs Sharpy, Dominican Republic BeSmash 2016 Grand Finals.

Both players are super high level players and this set was just super hype.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcUrN4TkY24

That was a really good set.

 

[RadiantHero]

alright so from testing, shiek and pika are troublesome matchups. so cloud players, how are u defeating the pika matchup?

 

[Saltyman]

Cloud beats Pika btw.. Just space. All of Clouds attacks hit through everything Pikachu has with proper spacing. He also beats Sheik. Just because a Cloud player get's outplayed by possibly the best Sheik player at the moment doesn't mean it's a bad matchup.​

 

[Yσנιмιтѕυ]

cloud doesn't beat sheik. it's an even mu

 

[Saltyman]

cloud doesn't beat sheik. it's an even mu

Sheik just has too much trouble KOing now. Honestly I would say it's more an issue of Sheik players having more experience right now

Limit Break Side B wins that matchups, Sheik is okay at preventing Cloud from limit camping, but considering how much damage she normally needs to do to get a KO on Cloud he will likely get it at least twice in a match. Sheik lost most of her onstage kill confirms and Cloud is better at controlling centerstage. Just my thoughts on it, but yeah Sheik does not win that matchup in the current patch..

Fox is probably the best against Cloud at the moment. He's pretty good at getting around Clouds hitboxes and can pick up KOs without too much trouble against him.

 

[Tonsana]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfP30s7N30Y

Yeah, so this happened...

 

[DotDotSmash!]

Hello. New here, and not really a fan of social media of most kinds, so you won't see me often. I just thought this would be a useful place to put this- I labbed out what I consider to be the "basic" guidelines for Cloud's Limit Break Up-B kill percents. If you have time, please let me know what you think of the format I approached the video in. Thanks.

-Dot

https://youtu.be/Jms6uGfax5s