Nemy
群れ
Nemy submitted a new guide:
Chozo Bible by isca(Nemy) Beta - v0.1 - Origins
Chozo Bible by isca(Nemy) Beta - v0.1 - Origins
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Chozo Bible by isca(Nemy) Beta [Deleted]
- Thread starter Nemy
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Hmm, Id call that crap, but its a understatement regarding how bad it is, we got a guide, and I update it frequently for useful tech, its like my 8 year old brother watched me play and then made a guide about the stuff he thought was important about my game... :/ If a guide isnt finished then dont post it, put in the time then post a useful and actually good guide.
Nemy
群れ
Lol. I know this. It was a personal project that I had no intention of posting here until it was 100% I even stated this in the original post on my site. Warchamp told me to post it here since I can update it. There are barely any guides for this game as is. The info in this is not bad at all.
Without sounding too much like a ****, it's really not up to you to decide if your guide has info that 'isnt bad at all'
Nemy
群れ
Maybe, but I have a hard time believing he is judging it for the content rather than how pretty or organized it is. I ll admit, it is a mesin its current state, it was only meant to be posted to my "blog" as a place for me to slowly mold it into a guide.
No, id say he's judging it for the content.
I'd pick it apart for writing skills, but, it's too much effort.
There is a lot of bad writing going on, it needs a lot of tidying. but you know this.
As suggested, you should put this up when it's complete.
Same goes for any product.
I'd pick it apart for writing skills, but, it's too much effort.
There is a lot of bad writing going on, it needs a lot of tidying. but you know this.
As suggested, you should put this up when it's complete.
Same goes for any product.
Nemy
群れ
This entire version was written up on my phone, If I cant find the time to fix it up soon then I will I consider removing it from here.
Mean Green
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2014
- Messages
- 1,637
I agree with you and narpas, that like any product, it shouldn't be made available until it's complete. However idk if I'd say that it's all that bad. He is mentioning things we know, but it doesn't mean someone else won't learn from it. I think that's what matters most, since these forums are meant to help anyone advance their game.
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Id agree with you there Mean Green, if everything in his guide... wasnt already out there, its a sloppy mess typed up on a phone, and how is anyone supposed to sort through what has been gone over already, and what he is just saying for the 2nd time (more than a majority of it is), I dont know why an unknown samus want to just write a guide to the character, why should anyone follow the guide :/ Like I could certainly go on the pichu boards, and go nuts on a how to play the character... why the **** should anyone read my guide? Its probably full of misinformation or very punishable crap. When you make a name for yourself... someone will read your guide, ESAMs missile tutorial... vs JoeShmoe's missile guide... which one are you going to look towards for viable information :/ like you can certainly contribute if you want, but to come here with a half ass guide and us to just look it over and be like WOW omg thank you for this brilliant piece of work sir! :D :/ cmon now, go post it on gamefaqs if you care about people seeing it that badly
pooch182
Smash Journeyman
Barbie, you're always so close to being sensible and firm in your statements, but you almost always manage to turn them into belittling garbage that does nothing but discourage players. The sentiment that this guide is relatively amateur and unnecessary was covered already in the thread, and this last post of yours is nothing more than something to try and humiliate Nemy, when what he's done here was all in good intention.
Nemy, you seem to grasp the idea that your guide isn't very coherent and definitely needs work. That being said, I appreciate you actually taking the time to get a guide going, even if it might need quite a bit of polishing. That's why we've got the boards in the first place. I'd love to see us all collaborate on this guide to make it as good as it can be. Reading over "The Little Things" will help you see what's already covered, and perhaps your guide could fill some gaps, and we can make it an addendum to Barbie's stickied post.
A few pieces of advice I have for the guide: first and foremost, try to keep everything as objective as possible. If you're uninformed or inexperienced with a certain aspect of Samus' meta, keep that topic lightly covered, or omitted entirely until you've got a good idea of it (for example, "Boost attack is better used at mid/higher percents for better chance with followups, but I will admit I need to try and incorporate it more"). It's also a good idea to remove first person from your guide, just to give it a more professional atmosphere to the reader. If you're very lax with this presentation of supposed fact, people will be skeptical of it, and it will hurt the credibility of your guide.
Either way, you've clearly got a lot of desire to help grow the meta for Samus, and this is definitely the place to start doing that. Keep working on your guide, and come to these boards with questions and suggestions; we'll help you.
Nemy, you seem to grasp the idea that your guide isn't very coherent and definitely needs work. That being said, I appreciate you actually taking the time to get a guide going, even if it might need quite a bit of polishing. That's why we've got the boards in the first place. I'd love to see us all collaborate on this guide to make it as good as it can be. Reading over "The Little Things" will help you see what's already covered, and perhaps your guide could fill some gaps, and we can make it an addendum to Barbie's stickied post.
A few pieces of advice I have for the guide: first and foremost, try to keep everything as objective as possible. If you're uninformed or inexperienced with a certain aspect of Samus' meta, keep that topic lightly covered, or omitted entirely until you've got a good idea of it (for example, "Boost attack is better used at mid/higher percents for better chance with followups, but I will admit I need to try and incorporate it more"). It's also a good idea to remove first person from your guide, just to give it a more professional atmosphere to the reader. If you're very lax with this presentation of supposed fact, people will be skeptical of it, and it will hurt the credibility of your guide.
Either way, you've clearly got a lot of desire to help grow the meta for Samus, and this is definitely the place to start doing that. Keep working on your guide, and come to these boards with questions and suggestions; we'll help you.
Mean Green
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2014
- Messages
- 1,637
The whole post was basically what I was going to say. Unil I read the other stuff on this page lol.
Mean Green
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2014
- Messages
- 1,637
Yeah, it is better to go with someone you've heard of. But chances are you might not have heard of someone like esam until you're already above average. When I was learning to wavedash in melee, the only names I really even knew were Ken, PC Chris, M2K and Mango, more or less just the cream of the cream of the crop. If I had come across any random guide with details about how to fight better on a competitive level, I'd have welcomed it. But that's just me.
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Saos
Smash Rookie
You are a ****. If something is wrong help him fix it. Its not up to you to decide if something is worthy of posting. Its not spam, he is trying to help people out, then you come by giving him crap. I don't really post in here or anywhere much but I always see you giving people crap for not being as experienced, SO WHAT help him out or let him be.
Right there is the error in your way of thinking, "if something is wrong help him fix it"... that is your own mentality sir and it is not one I choose to adopt or live by. I do not consider myself to be a teacher on these boards, simply the voice of reason, and I will post my opinion, simply that, not fact, about what I thought of it as a whole, and its relevance. As a whole, it is spam, "irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent on the Internet to a large number of recipients."... because it is my interpretation of what was presented as irrelevant for guidance purposes, as well as it is factually repetitious of countless other things already present in the board and my own guide. Sent on the internet... and is viewed by a large number of recipients because this is the general home of character discussion for PM samus online.... So it is spam. I do agree he had the mentality of helping people out with his guide, and there is nothing wrong with that, by all means, you should be helping people out... but when you talk in the first person in a guide regarding meta you are not affluent in... then it is not helping out anyone, and it is just confusing newer players regarding the definitive vs appliciable to certain situations, and if you dont differentiate then you are in fact hurting newer players. I have helped out the newer players... go take a look at my guide, I spent plenty of time organizing it, and adding all new relevant information that is factual and applicable. It is not my place to rewrite or help him write a guide that he shouldn't be making in the first place, he likes the character... cool!, if he isnt proficient, he shouldn't be making or posting a guide for other sami to view, because its a waste of time, and a poorly written and unorganized mess. Yes what I am saying at this point is beyond repetitive, but its necessary to the point where just because you can make an account here and post something, doesnt mean you should. I personally got **** on by the melee vets on their board when I came on as a new inexperienced and hopeful samus posting, looking for people to talk to, share ideas with, theory craft, and introduce possibly new concepts I found. Turned out most of what I found was already on there and I got a stern speaking to by a number of sami, which is the same thing I am telling to most new ones on here. Take the time to read through the board before posting something new, and if you dont bother to do so, we (I), wont help you when everyone ****s on you for posting repetitive crap everyone knows about.
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pooch182
Smash Journeyman
Barbie, the one problem I see in your logic is that you tend to be negative towards the repetition of information that is regarded as sensible and relevant to the current meta.
Sometimes, though this information is available, it's difficult to locate because it's not all located in a convenient area. Your guide is no exception, it's got good info, but it doesn't cover a lot under the excuse that it's all in the Melee boards, when it really isn't. Not to mention, your guide isn't laid out in an organized fashion whatsoever, and seems very tangential and sporadic, which detracts from its credibility.
That all being said, it seems clear that we're in need of a better written guide (and video guide). I'm willing to create a GDoc to discuss and actively edit and create and collaborate on a brand new, all-encompassing and ever-developing, guide to playing Samus in Project M. The guide will be the collaborative effort of any and all Samus mains deemed intelligible and competent in theory crafting, our character specific meta game, and with a full comprehension of the more complex nature of the neutral game.
It's just an idea, and I'm willing to hear any and all feedback or suggestions, but I will be creating a guide regardless.
Sometimes, though this information is available, it's difficult to locate because it's not all located in a convenient area. Your guide is no exception, it's got good info, but it doesn't cover a lot under the excuse that it's all in the Melee boards, when it really isn't. Not to mention, your guide isn't laid out in an organized fashion whatsoever, and seems very tangential and sporadic, which detracts from its credibility.
That all being said, it seems clear that we're in need of a better written guide (and video guide). I'm willing to create a GDoc to discuss and actively edit and create and collaborate on a brand new, all-encompassing and ever-developing, guide to playing Samus in Project M. The guide will be the collaborative effort of any and all Samus mains deemed intelligible and competent in theory crafting, our character specific meta game, and with a full comprehension of the more complex nature of the neutral game.
It's just an idea, and I'm willing to hear any and all feedback or suggestions, but I will be creating a guide regardless.
Saos
Smash Rookie
You are really stupid. You just said this basically..... His guide is sh*t because I have a better one and so mine should be the only one because it is superior. You also are also saying, I got bullied when I first got onto Smash Boards so this kid should be bullied too! You are an online bully, you are a tool! But I will be constructive here, what if I hated your guide. I don't care if its better or right, I cant just try to make you take it down. That is what you are doing, its cool that you can right a fricken essay trying to tell me I am wrong but get over yourself, EVERYONE IS DONE WITH YOUR SH*T
Hey buddy, only sounds like you are done with my ****, everyone pretty much knows Im right here and the majority of other cases in which I post, that is because I only post on here when I know I am right. Just look at the other comments... they agreed with me, but I could have just said it nicer, this got dragged out because of your initial dislike of my feedback which was as the others agreed... accurate. Calm the hell down and stop having a screaming match, you are the only one yelling lol. I give zero ****s, everyone here knows that, and you saying you are down with anything is just blowing hot air, just be less sensitive and take what I said for face value, I'm too set in my ways to change and I'm not hated enough already, people already decided, why fight it, so I'm happy with the current status quo. 
He's not talking about whether you're right, KLit. He's talking about that nagging little problem you never got over where you act like an insufferable teenager with an inferiority complex.
Fwiw, tho, Saos, you're not really being a paragon, either. No need to be so vituperous.
Fwiw, tho, Saos, you're not really being a paragon, either. No need to be so vituperous.
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Lol no I got that too, but thats where I said that no one really cares that much anymore 
and thats why im happy with the status quo, because I'm kinda allowed you act like that when **** like this comes out :D then all of you take away the mean stuff and act all supporting, and then he goes back and makes the best damn guide ever and everyone wins
and thats why im happy with the status quo, because I'm kinda allowed you act like that when **** like this comes out :D then all of you take away the mean stuff and act all supporting, and then he goes back and makes the best damn guide ever and everyone winsYeah, but you still see viable stuff when I do post it and discuss its merit regardless of what context I put it in, so ignoring the mean stuff or me saying it in a nice way makes no difference anymore, ergo I still go with the fun route
pooch182
Smash Journeyman
Except I don't see how it's fun at all. Personally, you don't affect me, but at the same time, it upsets me knowing that your rudeness has lead people to abandon the idea of playing Samus competitively. It may not mean much to you, but it comes across as selfish, and I'm finding myself less and less impressed with you.
We get it, you can be incredibly smart. If you were to combine that with a bit of tact and respect, I could see you becoming much more of a role model for upcoming Samus players. The way you act now is childish and ignorant to the fact that people other than you wish to play this game at a high level.
If you don't want to have a teaching mantra, then don't come into threads to inform somebody they're wrong in the first place. Whenever you do, the threads turn into this, which is counteractive to the purpose of these boards. You're hurting our development as players, and it really isn't appreciated. Sometimes you don't need to involve yourself in a thread at all, you'll still get the attention your so desperately seeking elsewhere, don't worry.
We get it, you can be incredibly smart. If you were to combine that with a bit of tact and respect, I could see you becoming much more of a role model for upcoming Samus players. The way you act now is childish and ignorant to the fact that people other than you wish to play this game at a high level.
If you don't want to have a teaching mantra, then don't come into threads to inform somebody they're wrong in the first place. Whenever you do, the threads turn into this, which is counteractive to the purpose of these boards. You're hurting our development as players, and it really isn't appreciated. Sometimes you don't need to involve yourself in a thread at all, you'll still get the attention your so desperately seeking elsewhere, don't worry.
All i got from that is you think I'm incredibly smart, and that me being mean doesnt bother you. I honestly don't care if new people pick up the character, I was never inspired by leffens **** attitude, but I sure as hell respected how he played and his knowledge of the game. The reason I'm on here is to keep up with anything drastically new to meta, and occasionally have an intelligent conversation with some of the competent sami out there. Its not fun for you, obviously because you dont engage in the behavior, I continue to do so, and I find humor in it, so I continue to do it, if you guys actually laid down the law, Id stop acting as I do, but nothing has actually presented a reason as to why to change as I act, because I don't care to be a role model, I play the game for lolz to beat kids that only play PM and then tell them why they are wrong, I don't even know half of the brawl techs present in PM because its not in my interest to learn them, until I am forced to, to improve my play to a point where I win again. These forums are both discussion and informative, I choose to teach by having the discussions of why people are wrong, not why they are right, that way I dont actually have to be patient with anyone, and promote self learning from reading the comments and posts of others. I mean certainly if I am sitting down next to you playing a friendly, and you asked me to help you get better, I wouldn't call you an incompetent schmuck, because its much easier to show you than tell you, and you arent some random kid ive never spoken to that is going to give me attitude when I tell him he has been doing something; wrong, stupid or ineffective. If you want me to teach you... don't argue with me, and no matter what online, everyone thinks their voice is important and their arguments should be heard, and addressed in a civil manner, I personally don't agree when you are learning, you shouldn't be arguing at all but questioning what any arguments you may have and then... just ask
Here is the biggest part of the joke though... the kid spent all his time on this guide and is still working on it... but 3.5 is going to be released within the next few weeks and almost everything he put into it will need to be either completely redone or modified to fit with the new version of samus
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Phantomarchangel
Smash Rookie
I think is pretty decent for players who really don't know too much samus or know where to start with her. The alternate play suggestions are nice and I look to seeing this guide updated over time. Indeed it needs some tidying up but it's not really that bad. Keep it up!
Saos
Smash Rookie
You really don't get it. I am not here to create fights with some kid online, and I am sorry for doing so. I cant believe I have to say this to an adult or young adult whatever, if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all. If the info is wrong and you don't want people to be tainted by it then PM them or comment like a humane person. What I am getting though is that you don't care about other people online so this forum shouldn't even concern you. I am not trying to change you, and by seeing that you are very unsensible person I know that I will not influence you but I want you to understand where I and others are coming from.
I certainly understand where others are coming from... I am a psychologist xD
Here is the thing, a guide is there for instructional and guidance purposes, its not a strategy list. What new player should do when looking for direction is called experimentation, and observation. Observation can come from watching other samuses play, referencing a guide or this forum when they dont understand what is going on technically, and then applying what they learn to their own game. If you want to drastically improve your game, record a set of yours, and mark down every single time you got hit, then reason why you got hit, and how to avoid it, and then work on actively avoiding each of those things in the following matches you play. Of course you cant avoid everything, and trades are certainly good in some instances, but mark when they are good trades, and how you were able to make them happen as well, and think if they are repeatable or translatable against other players. That is true guidance, what he is making is a teachers handbook, which is ineffective at eliciting new thought from those learning from it, and does not promote growth as a player. If I copy everything a better player does, cool, I can do tech skill, but if I dont understand why they do what they do and where, it will never translate to other MUs, or opponents.
pooch182
Smash Journeyman
Hey there, everybody!
I've began a rough draft of my proposed guide, and would love to hear any and all feedback to make it as comprehensible and solid as possible. I'd like to point out that I'm being relatively thorough for a good reason, and this guide will be exceptionally long when it is completed. The magic of editing will make it a manageable piece that should be easy to understand by players of all skill levels.
Anyway, here's the link to the freshly started draft: https://docs.google.com/document/d/18Ip9jtcX5t__bBXfry5Ab22eoiO61O4-aUpX4Gr3m2A/edit?usp=sharing It's not even remotely close to finished, or even polished up, but I want to involve as many people as I can in the creation of this. Anybody is free to comment on this draft, but no other people are allowed to edit it as of right now. Again, it's all basics, and most parts are kept relatively open/vague to allow for easier editing when 3.5 and 4.0 are released. Also, this guide will not be officially published until 3.5 is released, as I would like to have gifs of everything in debug mode, and just frame data to refer to.
I've began a rough draft of my proposed guide, and would love to hear any and all feedback to make it as comprehensible and solid as possible. I'd like to point out that I'm being relatively thorough for a good reason, and this guide will be exceptionally long when it is completed. The magic of editing will make it a manageable piece that should be easy to understand by players of all skill levels.
Anyway, here's the link to the freshly started draft: https://docs.google.com/document/d/18Ip9jtcX5t__bBXfry5Ab22eoiO61O4-aUpX4Gr3m2A/edit?usp=sharing It's not even remotely close to finished, or even polished up, but I want to involve as many people as I can in the creation of this. Anybody is free to comment on this draft, but no other people are allowed to edit it as of right now. Again, it's all basics, and most parts are kept relatively open/vague to allow for easier editing when 3.5 and 4.0 are released. Also, this guide will not be officially published until 3.5 is released, as I would like to have gifs of everything in debug mode, and just frame data to refer to.
Phantomarchangel
Smash Rookie
I read you guide and it's a nice start. I suggest adding in an index and a reference page to explain certain abbreviations or maybe even tech skills too. That would make it a bit more new reader friendly but that's just my opinion xD I noticed you have some things numbered so I'm guessing you're already planning on doing that.
I like the clear separate descriptions for each "Beam Move" to let players know it can functions differently and how they function along with the damage and effects of the attack. Overall i think it's a good start - I look forward to you finishing the morph ball section.
I like the clear separate descriptions for each "Beam Move" to let players know it can functions differently and how they function along with the damage and effects of the attack. Overall i think it's a good start - I look forward to you finishing the morph ball section.
pooch182
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, there's gonna be an index and bibliography at final publication. I really want this to be professional and appealing to anybody reading it.
This is hugely unappealing because of its length, but thats just for me, I'm sure a ton of other sami will appreciate it, but I shall continue to just update mine for a concise guide with the important parts stressed... aka the little things in the game that make samus viable, and good.
pooch182
Smash Journeyman
The idea is to have everything hidden in little blocks of info to be more digestible to the reader. Visuals will be included and everything, and it'll be structured in a manner that is coherent and easy to understand piece by piece.
What we need is a 'cheat sheet' guide for commentators.
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'just' he says. As if his suggestion is the easier of the two options.
Samus is surprisingly technical, and since not a ton out there, its hard to tech people who are barely competent in other characters or the game in the first place.
exactly.
So having a cheat sheet for commentators to use written by a competent player would be a lot easier than finding commentators for each tournament that have memorised everything about every character.
So having a cheat sheet for commentators to use written by a competent player would be a lot easier than finding commentators for each tournament that have memorised everything about every character.
Well, I dunno if Samus mains would, as a rule make great commentators. DJ Nintendo is an amazing commentator, but he's not really a main. HugS, on the other hand, spends most of the time trash talking, or describing drunken escapades past present or future.
I know I would spend the entire time telling dad jokes.
But having a cheat sheet would be harder than trying to get people who have been around and have learnt up a ton about the game. I've been playing this game seriously for going on ten years, and although I trounce a lot of "top tier" commentators on game knowledge, there are still some things I don't know or are only vaguely aware of.
I know I would spend the entire time telling dad jokes.
But having a cheat sheet would be harder than trying to get people who have been around and have learnt up a ton about the game. I've been playing this game seriously for going on ten years, and although I trounce a lot of "top tier" commentators on game knowledge, there are still some things I don't know or are only vaguely aware of.
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pooch182
Smash Journeyman
I tend to commentate a decent amount at my locals. I've got a more analytical style, and I love to study the intricacies of the game. I feel like it's more the thinking/learning style of the person that determines ability/desire to commentate, rather than who their main is.
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