<--ChozenOne's "Learn to Fux With Amazingness" Thread-->

[PrinceZane]

I think 3-4 people in a match is better for dodge practice. Gets your reflex working a bit

 

[ChozenOne]

To answer your question right now.. the best way to affectivly dodge [by wavedashing back] is to do it in 1v1s... against good people that space well.

 

[Jarrod159]

Chozen, i dont care if you were the best jiggly that ever lived. anyone who is that obnoxious about their skill is a *** in my book. learn how to be humble and then maybe more people will listen to what you have to say. other than that, thanks for the tips on how to make my jiggly better.

 

[PrinceZane]

That's not the best way to make you're first post and introduction to the boards. Don't flame each other, it'll get you on the wrong list fast. (this goes for everyone)

With that said, welcome

 

[ChozenOne]

That is teh sweetness

I am well aware.

I assume by "Side around, and space Bairs" you mean the fast SH out & back that I so need to get down, and move around the level doing that, or do you mean something else, like WDing around into spaced Bairs? Like crouching WDes into spaced Bairs'n'stuff? Could a bair hit through a charging forward b or a flaming down b? (although I just know if the forward b is seen rest looks like the better option once he misses... can that thing be spot dodged?)

Bair has quite the nasty priority.. if you space it correctly at worst it will just bounce off whatever you hit w/ it, and at beast, you will effectivly "Jiggle" them for quite some %.

And I just want to be clear... by missing a shieldgrab you do mean a spot dodge into sh'd rest, right? (I never did use spot dodge before, and so my style didnt' involve it; now, I don't know when I should use it or not... and so I can't say I've ever used it on purpose, with value coming from its use.)

Well.. i suppose you could sidestep-->rest, but CCing a rest is probably more effective against a Falcon. He'll miss the shieldgrab b/c you either space too well, CC, or SS. Shorthop and rest.

Good Day Sir.

 

[ChozenOne]

Chozen, i dont care if you were the best jiggly that ever lived. anyone who is that obnoxious about their skill is a *** in my book. learn how to be humble and then maybe more people will listen to what you have to say. other than that, thanks for the tips on how to make my jiggly better.

I still live.

 

[Magus420]

Well.. i suppose you could sidestep-->rest, but CCing a rest is probably more effective against a Falcon. He'll miss the shieldgrab b/c you either space too well, CC, or SS. Shorthop and rest.

Good Day Sir.

Wasn't aware there was any knockback on a grab that you could crouch cancel. I do know that ducking avoids his grab though =D

Unless of course by CC you mean crouch camping or something, lol.

 

[ChozenOne]

CC when they grab.. so they miss you good sir... so they miss you.

And yes.. Crouch Camping is indeed good, and effective.

 

[Magus420]

What I mean is it is not crouch cancelling. It's simply crouching. Crouch cancelling is the effect of reduced knockback on moves by being in a crouching state plus ASDI into the ground to keep you from leaving the ground after being hit.

 

[ChozenOne]

Smash terminology gets in the way. Just push the button that you move with down, and then push b [while pushing down] and you'll win.

 

[Magus420]

Down+B ftw imo.

 

[PrinceZane]

Yay for confusion! haha.

When ducking a grab/jab/whatever, can you simply rest, or do you have to sh or sh towards them to get the rest?

 

[ChozenOne]

It depends how well they spaced.. if they're jabbing a rest will probably hit them no matter what... and for poorly spaced grabs it's the same.. but if they miss a grab it's probably safer [anyway] to to a SH rest.

 

[Magus420]

It depends on the character and the spacing. Sheik for example you can easily rest straight out of the crouch without moving if you duck a grab and are reasonably close. To be safe for others you'll probably want to jump, but if there isn't a lot of lag you must react quickly. If the animation doesn't really put themselves out there very much or for a very short time resting without jumping is a bad idea.

 

[KevinM]

I finally finished reading all of this thread... i don't feel more informed oddly enough, but i feel better haha

 

[ChronoSquare]

To answer your question right now.. the best way to affectivly dodge [by wavedashing back] is to do it in 1v1s... against good people that space well.

Bair has quite the nasty priority.. if you space it correctly at worst it will just bounce off whatever you hit w/ it, and at beast, you will effectivly "Jiggle" them for quite some %.

Chozan-san, you dissapoint me...

Both in your grammar (I've come to expect high of you) and also that response.

I had asked as to how you go about utilizing the bairs and the spacing on the stage; you seem to have ment "Slide Around" and space bairs, so I had asked if you meant just jumping around and spacing bairs, or other forms of movement.

Perhaps it's best if I break this into another question, because not everyone can keep on an offensive with consistent results as you: When Jigglypuff finds herself under assault, what should she end up doing?
An example is today, against my friend KSSB. I played MUCH better than I ususally do, and tried to implement the strategy you presented against him when he went Falcon... it did help somewhat, but mostly I couldn't implement it because I was under a fairly heavy rain of running knees... so fast, I just don't have time to react effectively; and mostly all dair stomps came at times I was unable to react in a manner that I liked.

In short, situations like this keep me from being all that and a bag of chips in 4-player matches... All dodging aside, I don't know how to dodge an offensive and be able to give efficient counter-attacks. Maybe I can take some FFA matches from yesterday that were recorded and better display what I mean...

 

[doyoung2win]

abuse ur fairs and bairs, go back to basics and use wop.

basically,
attack before he attacks.

 

[PrinceZane]

Up-smash out of shield works to slow the pace of their attacks

 

[ChozenOne]

I had asked as to how you go about utilizing the bairs and the spacing on the stage; you seem to have ment "Slide Around" and space bairs, so I had asked if you meant just jumping around and spacing bairs, or other forms of movement.

Attack before he attacks.

This is only effective, if your opponent has you pinned down and IS attacking.. if both you and your opponent are far away, and waiting to start a combo then the best case of action is to do alot of empty shorthops, followed w/ randomly [well spaced] Bairs, WaveDashings, and h Dashdancing... when your opponent does an attack that does not hit you [due to the defensive nature of your previous tactics] then go ape****. If your opponent attacks first, and doesn't hit you due to Jigg's amazing spacing then punish their lag.. this is the very reason that so many Jiggs players have alot of trouble Vs. Zelda... they attack first, and the Zelda just Bairs them in the face. Indeed it is quite painful. If you're trying to disrupt them whilst they are comboing you, a well timed Nair has just enough speed, priority, and knockback to end their futile attempts to win, and also allow you to follow up w/ [ussually] an F/Bair.

When Jigglypuff finds herself under assault, what should she end up doing?

Answered in Above Answer.

Up-smash out of shield works to slow the pace of their attacks

Usmash out of shield is good [but very situational]. About half of the time that you have the oppertunity to Usmash out of shield you could also ShortHop-->Rest.. so you need to ask yourself whether you're looking for a KO or perhaps the means to start a combo. I do suggest not attempting to use it on fastfallers unless you take into account the inherent lag [of Jigg's Usmash] and priority of the move of your opponent that you are trying to disrupt.. aka... PRACTICE.

Chozan-san, you dissapoint me...

At Beast.. Meaning during beast state... ChozenOne makes no mistakes. *raises eyebrow*

An example is today, against my friend KSSB. I played MUCH better than I ususally do, and tried to implement the strategy you presented against him when he went Falcon... it did help somewhat, but mostly I couldn't implement it because I was under a fairly heavy rain of running knees... so fast, I just don't have time to react effectively; and mostly all dair stomps came at times I was unable to react in a manner that I liked.

Keep Moving. You can CC, but WaveDash while you do it. Roll if nessesary. SS, and grab. If he's expecting you to remain croutched then just SH a falling Uair, and then proceed to ****... Expect a full load. That is all.

I don't know how to dodge an offensive and be able to give efficient counter-attacks.

"Dodging" attacks only works if your current nemisis is an amazing "spacer". Most of the advice I give is for high<-->pro level play. If a Marth is doing an Fair, and is very excellent @ spacing then if you WD back, and Fsmash you will hit him [unless he FastFalls, and Shields]. This so-called "Dodging" works w/ the assumption that your opponent is so adept w/ their character that they know the exact hit boxs, and if they do an attack, and you are just one pixle length away then you won't be hit.

Good Day Sirs.

 

[Magus420]

I use u-smash out of shield mostly against floaties if they are at high damage and the situation comes up.

It's also useful after shielding Falco's d-air since with the pullback on the u-smash you'll dodge their shine if they do one and hit them before they can get away, and then set up a tech chase, rest, or u-air combo depending on the %. Only Falco, not Fox. Fox's shine has far more range.

N-air is amazing out of shield though IMO.

Speaking of Falco's d-air, if they come straight down on you with one like through a platform or while pillaring your shield or something you can actually shield grab the d-air since Jiggs' grab has a slight pullback on it too, though not as much as the u-smash.

Also something with Falco's lasers I noticed in AR, is that you actually can essentially duck under all of his SHLs with Jiggs. If you only use the beginning 1/2 - 2/3 sec or so on the crouch you can only be hit by 1 very frame specific SHL timing out of countless variances in the timing (something like shoot on 7 & FF on... I forget lol). It's not something any Falco player would be able to reliably time on purpose though. If you stay crouched for more than that amount of time you can be hit by quite a lot of low laser timings though. Jiggs' landing animation (like when landing without attacking or having an attack auto-cancel) is as low as the initial crouch or very slightly lower, and you can go directly into the crouch without popping up at all above that really low level too. That's why autocancel n-air -> duck grab works.

 

[Ken34]

Is it possible for a falco at zero % to do anything to counter utilt, rest? also, is WD into rest once in a while something good to do? or should i avoid doing it period?

 

[PrinceZane]

There is no such thing as a bad time to rest... unless of course you miss.

If you can wd-rest, I say go for it. Even if you don't kill them that "PING" does a lot to their morale

 

[ChozenOne]

Is it possible for a falco at zero % to do anything to counter utilt, rest? also, is WD into rest once in a while something good to do? or should i avoid doing it period?

Tech when they hit the ground... >_> You have to Utilt them 2-4 times inorder for Falco [at 0%] to be shorthop rested.. reliably. The knockback from Utilt isn't enough @ zero percent so its best if you FF a Uair, and then start a Utilt then.. follow that w/ a rest. The lag/pecent from the combined Uair, and Utilt should be enough to allow you to land a fest.

Echoing what PrinceZane said.. Resting is usually good... unless you are at a very high % and your opponent may comeback and **** your **** [assuming the Anti-KO'd for that stock].

 

[doyoung2win]

land a fest? teehee, what about uptilt rest without the short hop?

 

[ChozenOne]

That's completly dependant on your opponent's DI.. I prefer to leave nothing to luck.

 

[Duha]

That's completly dependant on your opponent's DI.. I prefer to leave nothing to luck.

ok king of gimpy rest leave nothing to luck lol that is funny

 

[TheLegend]

Wow.. 26 infraction pts. Chozen is a beast... at getting banned >_>

 

[PrinceZane]

Following his advice is good, but following his, erm, habit - isn't.

 

[A_mArIo]

Wow is chozen banned again? That didnt take too long...lol....
Anyways what is the best way to edgeguard a Marth? My oppponent gets to live way too long beacause I cant edgeguard efficiently enough half the time. And half the people I know that play Smash play Marth... Its a lose lose situation...

 

[cmart]

To edgeguard Marth you have to be cautious of getting hit by his fair. Try to bait it out, attack second and all that jank. Or time it so you hit him right after he over b's. Hitting him before he gets back on the screen is good too. Alternatively, you could just trade with him and it'll probably kill him. You don't really need a solid hit on Marth for the ko, just tap him back out a little bit and he should die.
If they're already too low to intercept safely, edgehog so that they can't grab the edge, then ledge hop something if they try to up b onto the stage. The key is timing your edge grab so that you don't need to roll onto the stage to avoid his up b.

 

[doyoung2win]

Marth Edgeguard:
1. Bait out his forward b and fair him
2. pound towards the edge from opposite the edge (assuming he is trying to sweetspot)
3. fast fall a bair towards the sweetspot when marth his at the perfect distance, (watch their character as if you were playing him and bair the edge when you would press up b)
4. light shield trick
4-5. if he lands on stage, edge hop pound, bair, or sing and repeat. (if u catch him in a sing do what you want)

 

[Aero]

just a note: if you're going to attempt the wd rest, make sure you wd > jump > (immediately) rest. without the jump you'll find yourself missing a lot more, in my experience

against marth, what has been mentioned is good -- another trick is to drop a little lower than him, then jump > fair/nair/bair

something tells me that using dair and dragging him away from the stage with DI might work too, but i haven't tested it and its probably not reliable (marth's fb hits above), lol

---

btw, chozen... i have recording equipment now... you have access to some too, right?

lets record a lot and release an unbelievably amazing two-person jiggly combo video

 

[Plairnkk]

aero do u wanna play sometime this week/are u allowed to play during the week??

i have recording sheezie too.

i want some jigg stuff for my sheik guide and u can show ppl some of the nastage you do to me

 

[Ame$]

against a marth fair edgeguarding works a lot better than bair ....

___________________________

 

[Chap™]

hey link is gay and spams and does that incredibly gay Downthrow down air
what should I do

 

[PrinceZane]

Oo! Oo! I can answer this one

DI lots, **** him with uptilts. try to spot dodge and **** his chain grab lag, and hop to god he spin attacks you. Rest City!

I play a link a bit, this usually works for me (even though he outclasses me on tech ability, I get close b/c of the afore mentioned things)

 

[doyoung2win]

bulldozer of pain

 

[Chap™]

well hmmm let me put it in other words how do I beat LoVo's faggy link

 

[Tha L@wl]

out prioritize link boomerang!!!

 

[technomancer]

Pound owns Link

Don't get grabbed, lol WTF you're jiggly

Don't be fancy with WOP stuff just beat the crap out of him and don't get hit.