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Data "Chimera Laboratory" - Lucas moveset discussion

JosePollo

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Apr 21, 2015
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I've been experimenting with using 2d images do display the angle.
Tell me what you think.
http://i.imgur.com/beaSixa.gif
http://i.imgur.com/CXnbu9s.gif
http://i.imgur.com/qpOlpKc.gif
The problem I see is overlapping ones are hard to see, and the model also overlaps them.
Fair looks amazing and thanks to it being a long-er lasting hitbox than most his other attacks (more than 2-3 frames lmao) you can use the large disjoint to kind of create a wall alternating full jump fairs, short-hop fairs, and landing fairs (only 12 frames of landing lag, which is pretty good, and if you time it just right you can get a frame cancel if it connects). I think if you start the fair as you full hop you can squeeze another fair out before you hit the ground, so you can combine full hop and landing fair into one jump.

Up air is even more disappointing than I thought because I was under the impression that it was an arcing attack, but I guess not. The disjoint is still pretty good, though.

For back air you should try to figure out a way to get the 280° hitbox to overlap the 361° since that's the one higher in the hitbox stack. I mean, as long as you know it's the middle hitbox that meteors aerial foes then you're good, so I guess it's just a minor nitpick.

Have you done up smash yet? I imagine that one might take a bit of time.
 
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JosePollo

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Don't know how often it has been discussed, but short hop down air has an interesting use in edge guarding. The spike hit happens frame 34, which is exactly 1 frame before Lucas lands from his short hop, making it easy to time when trying to hit someone recovering under a stage with a thin ledge (such as Battlefield and Lylat Cruise--although the tilt on Lylat Cruise can mess with the rather frame-perfect timing of the move). Think of how Falcons try to dair people through stages, or ZSS using her down b kick to hit through ledges. That kind of thing. If you want to see just how far down it reaches try it on Battlefield (WiiU) or Pac-Maze (3DS; the ledge on the 3DS version of Battlefield is actually pretty thick, so it's harder to see than in the WiiU version).

Also on the topic of down air, at early percentages where dair doesn't have strong spiking potential (only 5% damage with 10 base knockback, so it's a rather large window) it CAN put you in position where you can footstool the opponent as you fall with them after the hit, much the way Kirby players use fast-fall dair to footstool, but much trickier since you're relying on hitting the opponent with a frame 34 hit that spans a total of two frames. I think it only works on a strange percentage window, though, since if you do it too early the final hit doesn't have enough hitstun for you to follow up with the footstool, but too high of a percentage can put them too far down for the footstool (although that may mean your opponent is losing a stock anyway).

Pretty situational stuff, but worth mentioning, I think.
 
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Has a quick double jump cancelled down special been utilized yet as an approach? It boosts Lucas forward while holding out the Forward PSI Magnet, providing a disjointed approach that also absorbs energy projectiles.

At low percents it actually starts some devastating combos. If your opponent is close to the opposite ledge, use the magnet dash, and combo into dash attack to get them offstage, then rising down air followed up by a back air spike for the KO. Worked on both Kirby and ROB when I was testing it. It also combos into a dash grab and a dash short hop anything.
 
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JosePollo

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Has a quick double jump cancelled down special been utilized yet as an approach? It boosts Lucas forward while holding out the Forward PSI Magnet, providing a disjointed approach that also absorbs energy projectiles.

At low percents it actually starts some devastating combos. If your opponent is close to the opposite ledge, use the magnet dash, and combo into dash attack to get them offstage, then rising down air followed up by a back air spike for the KO. Worked on both Kirby and ROB when I was testing it. It also combos into a dash grab and a dash short hop anything.
There's way too much start-up on magnet (frame 10 to start absorbing, frame 17 at the earliest for the 1-frame hitbox) for that kind of approach to be truly viable against a competitive opponent. It might work once or twice per set in a tournament, but it's as good as trying to approach someone with a smash attack, so that's why most people don't opt for it. Just using magnet to absorb projectiles is risky (especially against storable projectiles--Lucario's Aura Sphere, Samus's Charge Shot, etc.--because you risk putting yourself in a checkmate situation) due to the start-up, so a lot of Lucas players prefer to just shield or avoid projectiles in the first place unless the opponent throws it out from really far away.

I really only ever use magnet to stall, boost my recovery, or to turn myself around in the air to get ready to back air someone trying to edge-guard me.
 
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With the tech, the attack is input from a decent distance away, and reaches the target on frame 20-ish, so taking the above into regards, it should only be used against characters that are outranged by it. I believe the edge of the hitbox outspaces :4metaknight:, but I'm not sure...
 

JosePollo

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With the tech, the attack is input from a decent distance away, and reaches the target on frame 20-ish, so taking the above into regards, it should only be used against characters that are outranged by it. I believe the edge of the hitbox outspaces :4metaknight:, but I'm not sure...
Shield is still a very strong option against Lucas when he's in the air due to his slow falling speed and lack of a fast grab, which makes his tomohawk game weak. An opponent who sees you take off into the air has plenty of time to pull up his frame 1 shield and now he has all the advantage in his favor if you were to attempt to hit him with PSI Magnet; no reason to try to challenge it if he can just shield it on reaction. Even if it can beat out moves due to transcendence, the hitbox itself is going to be out-ranging very few things in the first place.

Hitbox courtesy of Furil Furil

I used to try this back when Lucas first came out, but stopped when I realized just how easy it was to punish.
 
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PKBeam

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you can FF (sweetspot) Fair shields, and as long as the Fair is late enough they don't have anything guaranteed unless they have a very fast Up-B OoS. If you frame sync the move it becomes even harder to punish.
 

KaptenFullkorn

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Ofc SH Uair is safer when the opponent is on a platform over you, but nair can set up better combos. I recently noticed that a FH Nair autocancels on platforms (battlefield hight). Problems like a good timed grab can still interrupt the nair percists, but it makes shield useful if you get the crossup. Shielddrops make this much safer, and might even setup for a punish if you know how to shielddrop FF.

gif as demonstration
https://gfycat.com/HighCourageousChuckwalla
 
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Nohbody

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Don't know how often it has been discussed, but short hop down air has an interesting use in edge guarding. The spike hit happens frame 34, which is exactly 1 frame before Lucas lands from his short hop, making it easy to time when trying to hit someone recovering under a stage with a thin ledge (such as Battlefield and Lylat Cruise--although the tilt on Lylat Cruise can mess with the rather frame-perfect timing of the move). Think of how Falcons try to dair people through stages, or ZSS using her down b kick to hit through ledges. That kind of thing. If you want to see just how far down it reaches try it on Battlefield (WiiU) or Pac-Maze (3DS; the ledge on the 3DS version of Battlefield is actually pretty thick, so it's harder to see than in the WiiU version).
I tried this idea in friendlies and actually got the spike first time! Lab it up people, its worth your time.
 
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