Data "Chimera Laboratory" - Lucas moveset discussion

[Kodystri]

That is so sweet.

 

[PK_Lunar_π_03]

So this probably only works at exactly 0% correct? Still interesting

Works from 0-25% the tech window gets a bit bigger when the % rises but its nice combo

 

[PK_Lunar_π_03]

That is so sweet.

Thanks I proud of myself finding a Lucas JabLock with Platforms

 

[JosePollo]

Granted the opponent doesn't miss the down throw tech on the platform, you can pull this combo off until 37%, at which point down throw will put the opponent at 43%, causing fair to stop locking the oppponent (Sakurai angles stop locking after 42%). The initial string puts the opponent at under 37%, so you can go for the down throw fair lock again, then choose to end the combo with something strong, or re-grab and go from there. Just don't go for another f-tilt the second time around, since it won't lock anymore, as fair will most likely put the opponent over the 42% lock threshold).

It's a little easier to pull off than a down throw footstool combo, but it's less guaranteed since the opponent is actually able to tech off of the down throw. Good find.

 

[PK_Lunar_π_03]

Hey Guys its Lunar, and i Created 2 Lucas JabLock Combos/Setups, enjoy if you have any questions just ask I'm all ears :D


Here's the 2nd one this mostly a setup for a FootStool into a JabLock

 

[JosePollo]

Wait what am I looking at

 

[Bill cipher3]

Wait where are they?

 

[Lunacywastaken]

Nice find! I hope this works on other stages.

 

[JosePollo]

Nice find! I hope this works on other stages.

It works on any stage with platforms. When you can get an opponent to slide off a platform they can't tech the fall and you can go in with a jab locking move. In order to get them to slide off of a platform like that you have to hit them with a move angled at 361° and before 42% when said angle will stop making them slide and will pop them up at 45°. A great move in Lucas's toolkit for this is bair since it reaches above him and always hits grounded opponents at 361°, even at the sweetspot.

 

[Lunacywastaken]

It works on any stage with platforms. When you can get an opponent to slide off a platform they can't tech the fall and you can go in with a jab locking move. In order to get them to slide off of a platform like that you have to hit them with a move angled at 361° and before 42% when said angle will stop making them slide and will pop them up at 45°. A great move in Lucas's toolkit for this is bair since it reaches above him and always hits grounded opponents at 361°, even at the sweetspot.

I mean if d-throw will launch them high enough to bounce off the platform above. I know it will work otherwise.

 

[JosePollo]

Oh. I was referring to Mario sliding off and falling from the platform after being hit by the sour fair since that's the part that's a guaranteed lock, though Mario was already locked there before falling. Disregard my post, then.

 

[Bill cipher3]

Sorry for double posting but still where are they

 

[busken]

Does SH f-air autocancel? Or can you jump out of it?

 

[Login_Sinker]

Does SH f-air autocancel? Or can you jump out of it?

SH Fair does not auto cancel, unfortunately. It's still a fairly safe poking option if you space it properly, though.

 

[PK_Lunar_π_03]

Umm hello I'm a bit nervous to show you all this because people usually Hate on stuff I find or review but I made his video on a small Lucas Tech and its helpful umm please enjoy no hate please ._.

 

[JosePollo]

Yeah this a good set-up that I like when I find myself having a hard time taking an opponent's stock. The weak hits of nair have just enough knockback to frame trap an opponent without a good frame 1 escape option (like ZSS's Flip Jump, Sonic's spring, Rush Coil, etc.) into a quick move like down, up tilt, or jab. At high enough percentage it actually true-comboes into up tilt for a kill (I'm talking like 170% and up). Opponents can try to SDI away, but it's such a fast attack that a lot of the time they just can't react fast enough to do so.

It works better against floaties than fast-fallers since at the correct percentages their hitstun wears off in the air, which means they can't just pull up their shield like a fast-faller can at the same percentage (since their hitstun would wear off on the ground).

 

[AaronMcGruder]

Umm, I find this information extremely informative and will try to implement it into my play...
Umm... good post.

 

[Deleted member]

Great video/setups, I use this quite a bit when at high percents with floaty characters...
This little tech is underrated.

 

[krebstar]

Very interesting. Will lab later!

 

[PK_Lunar_π_03]

Great video/setups, I use this quite a bit when at high percents with floaty characters...
This little tech is underrated.

Thanks also I love your Lucas videos

 

[Salad :)]

Looks like fun! thanks for listing so many things on what to do, i did do this but i didn't know you could footstool people into down air! Thank you!

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

only been using the ff nair to utilt beforehand, nice mang!

 

[BlazinSatan]

Umm hello I'm a bit nervous to show you all this because people usually Hate on stuff I find or review but I made his video on a small Lucas Tech and its helpful umm please enjoy no hate please ._.

These are quite helpful. I should really practice them. Thanks for posting these!

 

[PK_Lunar_π_03]

Ha! It's me Lunar and I'm back with another Lucas Thread, I'ma going to show you some Lucas Platform Lock Setups for him , Enjoy

 

[meleebrawler]

You're missing one psychic there.

Credit to @Metalex

 

[JosePollo]

Those Ness set-ups are nasty, but I feel like with Lucas you probably want to grab after the forced get-up to keep the combo string going. For example, at 0% you can do back air (12% sweetspotted) to slide them off the platform, f-tilt (9% sourspotted) for the lock, d-tilt x 2 (6%), grab, 3 pummels (3.6%--you could possibly squeeze one or two more in there, but it's risky at such low percentage), down throw (6.5%), nair (8% if you land all the hits), footstool, last hit of dair (5%), f-tilt (9%), d-tilt x 2 (6%), down smash/up smash (17%/21%) to get massive damage and possibly close out the stock if you're close enough to the ledge when down smash hits. Now obviously this is a very extreme scenario and your DI reads and inputs have to be precise, but you get the point.

Once again, good stuff Lunar.

 

[PK_Lunar_π_03]

Hey guys Lunar here and I'ma going to show you a small tech that can gimp/kill characters. To do this tech you have to fast fall Nair so the only 3-4 hits connect so the last hit doesn't send them launching .

hope you found it useful.

 

[meleebrawler]

Hey guys Lunar here and I'ma going to show you a small tech that can gimp/kill characters. To do this tech you have to fast fall Nair so the only 3-4 hits connect so the last hit doesn't send them launching .

hope you found it useful.

This is something I do all the time with Mewtwo as well.

 

[Furil]

Bump, but I starting throwing together a little hitbox viewer based on the script from SmashCommand.
I plan on making GIFs showing the hitboxes for each of his moves.

Here are some of Lucas' moves. I don't know about 100% accuracy, but they're pretty close.
Fair's sour-spot looks a bit weird to me, but I don't know. It may be the angle I have it on.
http://i.imgur.com/4lZOdSi.png

It may end up being skeletal animation only because I am not having success with the rotation calculations for the mesh.
Regardless, it may be useful or interesting to look at.

 

[MrWhYYZ]

It may end up being skeletal animation only because I am not having success with the rotation calculations for the mesh.
Regardless, it may be useful or interesting to look at.

I know that JosePollo did nearly all hitbox gifs, but they are iirc scattered around the forums.

 

[Furil]

Ah, I found them, that's pretty neat!
They are still approximations, though.

I suppose more clarification couldn't hurt: http://i.imgur.com/etQLIkv.gif

Edit:
Got the mesh rotations sort of working. I don't know how to calculate the weight values, so it's not perfect.
Here is Lucas' Up Tilt: http://i.imgur.com/BIMZKKI.gif

 

[JosePollo]

Ah, I found them, that's pretty neat!
They are still approximations, though.

I suppose more clarification couldn't hurt: http://i.imgur.com/etQLIkv.gif

Edit:
Got the mesh rotations sort of working. I don't know how to calculate the weight values, so it's not perfect.
Here is Lucas' Up Tilt: http://i.imgur.com/BIMZKKI.gif

Oooh I was partly right, except I had the frame 4 hitboxes on the ground rather than on his hands. Great stuff here.

If you want some point of reference you can look through my various posts on this thread (http://smashboards.com/threads/mystery-of-the-7-needles-extensive-lucas-research-thread.416216/). That was a while ago and I haven't gone back to fix a lot of the errors on my animations, but I think it might help you a bit.

Doing these you might find what most annoys me about Lucas's hitboxes. A lot of them don't match up with the PSI animations that happen during the attacks, especially dash attack, which is only a 15-16 hit, while the PSI hexagons are visible 14-18. Up smash, nair, and last hit of down air have the same problem, too. F-tilt did, too (used to be a 7-8 hit) until patch 1.11 extended the hitbox duration to 7-10.

 

[Furil]

Hey, I figured out the bone weight calculation!
They ended up being easier than most of the other stuff. I'm completely new to 3d stuff, so this has been a learning experience.

So Dash Attack with mostly correct animation: http://i.imgur.com/t6RgtB8.gif
The 2nd hitbox appears to be more inside of Lucas. I wish I knew how the effects worked so I could add them, but that's beyond the scope of my little program.

I want to try and add an angle indicator similar to what you have because that's pretty useful.
And thank you for those reference; as you can tell from my first post here, I had the bone indices a bit off, but it's fixed now

 

[JosePollo]

Hey, I figured out the bone weight calculation!
They ended up being easier than most of the other stuff. I'm completely new to 3d stuff, so this has been a learning experience.

So Dash Attack with mostly correct animation: http://i.imgur.com/t6RgtB8.gif
The 2nd hitbox appears to be more inside of Lucas. I wish I knew how the effects worked so I could add them, but that's beyond the scope of my little program.

I want to try and add an angle indicator similar to what you have because that's pretty useful.
And thank you for those reference; as you can tell from my first post here, I had the bone indices a bit off, but it's fixed now

Ehh. Don't fret the effects. Your dash attack animation is already helping me better space the way I use it. It's s lot easier to sweet spot than I had imagined because I thought the hitboxes we closer together, but they're about 6 units apart.

 

[Furil]

Whoops, actually my viewer wasn't displaying extended hitboxes correctly.
The sourspot is actually pretty large.

I wonder where I can find the information for the size of the bone hurtboxes. That could be useful to have also.

 

[JosePollo]

Whoops, actually my viewer wasn't displaying extended hitboxes correctly.
The sourspot is actually pretty large.

I wonder where I can find the information for the size of the bone hurtboxes. That could be useful to have also.

Hey have you done back air? I'm interested in seeing how your program displays the hitbox positions for that one. Hitboxes 0x1 and 0x2 occupy the same space and dimensions, but 0x1 only hits aerial opponents.

 

[Furil]

It just draws the hitboxes on top of each other:
http://i.imgur.com/H4Bndmj.gif

 

[JosePollo]

It just draws the hitboxes on top of each other:
http://i.imgur.com/H4Bndmj.gif

The slightly redder hitbox is due to the overlap, right? Also, I was right the second time when I drew the hitboxes so that's cool. The meteor is super-easy to hit with. Just wish the tipper hitbox did anything useful. I'm assuming the little green ball at the bottom is some sort of detector that sets off the landing state of the attack if it touches the floor before auto-canceling?

Anyway, can you post down tilt? I want to see how good the disjoint is on the tipper. Thanks in advance!

 

[Furil]

Yes, the redder colors are due to overlap.
The little green ball is just the base node of Lucas' skeleton. I guess technically when it touches the ground Lucas should be entering landing state. So you can view it that way, I suppose.

Here is Down Tilt:
http://i.imgur.com/ODco8IM.gif
I need to work on re-sizing these :<

 

[JosePollo]

Yes, the redder colors are due to overlap.
The little green ball is just the base node of Lucas' skeleton. I guess technically when it touches the ground Lucas should be entering landing state. So you can view it that way, I suppose.

Here is Down Tilt:
http://i.imgur.com/ODco8IM.gif
I need to work on re-sizing these :<

Oh my god. I knew 0x2 was a disjoint, but holy cow I didn't know it was THAT disjointed.

Also, as in "base node", that would be where hitboxes NOT attached to bones get their coordinates from? On attacks like down smash, up smash, back air, up air, etc.? Is that what ALL those green nodes are? Bones?