Charizard Matchup Discussion - Samus

Strider755

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Ike755
#2
I played Samus for a little while, so I know what she can and can't do.

Samus can put out a pretty good projectile barrage, and skilled Samus players are known to fire off a few Super Missiles followed by a Charge Beam once they get you off guard.

Samus' tether grab is quite awful and really laggy, but it leads to some decent combos such as dthrow > fair or dthrow > uair > uair > Screw Attack. The tether is good as a zair and can be used for zoning.

Up close, Samus' moves are a little iffy. Her jab is horrible, her down smash has little power, and her fsmash whiffs at point blank range if not angled properly (it has a variable angle). Her up tilt can combo into an uair or two or a Screw Attack, as can her dash attack, but the latter must be precisely spaced as it has a very narrow hitbox. Her worst spot of all is her roll; it has pretty good distance but is slow beyond all reason. I have no idea what Sakurai was thinking when he designed it.
 

Steeler

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#3
I think Charizard loses this. Our size + air speed means going airborne is just begging to get zoned with zair and projectiles or comboed with uair. Depends on how well you can get through to her when you are grounded and up close. You gotta maintain stage control or you will be backed into a corner and make mistakes. Same for her but she holds her ground better in this matchup. Thus? Samus slight advantage.
 

charizardbro

Smash Apprentice
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#4
I think this is one of the more split matchups we have. It's been a lot of fun for me at locals.

Samus will try to zone Zard with missles, zair, and bomb but Zard is quick enough on the ground to break that zone with a solid dash speed and tilt game. That being said, the shieldbreaks are real if Samus has a full charge shot so she becomes a lot harder to rush down as Zard because we rely on staying grounded to beat zoning characters. Neutral is in Zard's favor if Zard can prevent Samus from getting a fully/mostly charged charge shot because the rush down becomes a lot more straightforward. Samus has the advantage in neutral if charge shot is up. Naturally, that will start to happen a lot more towards higher percents because Samus can just charge for free if she knocks Zard offstage. Getting an early percent lead on the first stock is really important because we lose neutral at higher percents.

Samus has high damage uair -> uair -> uspecial combos at low percents. Eating one of these early will put you really far behind because neutral only gets harder as she racks up damage. The Samus I usually play likes to use it out of dash attack a lot. Be sure to airdodge it and you'll be fine. Just know that it's probably coming. Same goes for platform coverage if Samus decides to harass with an aerial rather than a projectile as you try to get down. It'll probably be sh uair at low percents. Her utilt does a surprising amount of work on battlefield at higher percents though.

Zard just has the usual dthrow/uthrow stuff. Nothing of note in terms of our combos in this MU aside from dthrow -> flare blitz possibly working at the right percent. Haven't tested yet.

Edgeguarding Samus as Zard is a pain because she has a tether. You probably won't get anything huge unless you trump her. Flamethrower is an option but maintaining stage control is super important. Also watch out for Samus throwing out a Zair as she comes back onstage. That's pretty common too.

Samus will probably just charge stuff if the game is even and you are offstage so there is not too much to worry about on Zard's end as far as recovering goes.


Honestly, if you can get close to Samus and stay there this MU is actually pretty favorable. Samus players will tell you all about her bad jab/grab and subpar tilts. Exploit those weaknesses and you have a good shot as Zard.
 

Wald0

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#5
Samus can use jab1-f-smash at high percents and with his huge hurtbox it tends to happen a lot a least for me. Also I think bombs at ledge kind of destroy Zard since his recovery is very linear and Samus can easily follow up a dair after the bomb hits. Samus has an incredible OoS option (up-b) so even though her grab sucks her up-b is her only option at times. Samus also can zone out almost every one in the game with her zair so keep that in mind when your with-in her range (also it has no lag). Her bair can be an a-landing since it auto-cancels before it comes out. I'd say Samus wins this MU but I'd like to fight a true Zard main since one is quite rare to find in the wild
 

Wald0

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#6
Samus can use jab1-f-smash at high percents and with his huge hurtbox it tends to happen a lot a least for me. Also I think bombs at ledge kind of destroy Zard since his recovery is very linear and Samus can easily follow up a dair after the bomb hits. Samus has an incredible OoS option (up-b) so even though her grab sucks her up-b is her only option at times. Samus also can zone out almost every one in the game with her zair so keep that in mind when your with-in her range (also it has no lag). Her bair can be an a-landing since it auto-cancels before it comes out. I'd say Samus wins this MU but I'd like to fight a true Zard main since one is quite rare to find in the wild
EDIT: Use that Up-smash on Samus she can't counter it very well since it's disjointed and Samus' hurtboxes are horrifying
 

charizardbro

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#7
Samus can use jab1-f-smash at high percents and with his huge hurtbox it tends to happen a lot a least for me. Also I think bombs at ledge kind of destroy Zard since his recovery is very linear and Samus can easily follow up a dair after the bomb hits. Samus has an incredible OoS option (up-b) so even though her grab sucks her up-b is her only option at times. Samus also can zone out almost every one in the game with her zair so keep that in mind when your with-in her range (also it has no lag). Her bair can be an a-landing since it auto-cancels before it comes out. I'd say Samus wins this MU but I'd like to fight a true Zard main since one is quite rare to find in the wild

jab1-fsmash
Good luck sweetspotting with fsmash for the kill (I've never seen the Samus around here do that) but that would expand Samus' kill options a bit. It does sound like Zard could rock smash through it if he sees it coming though.

bombs at ledge
Zard does not have to recover with fly so if the Charizard player mixes up their recovery well, they should be able to work around the bomb pretty well. And if worst came to worst, Charizard could recover with flare blitz every time to avoid giving Samus a free dair confirm after the bomb. All that being said, bomb does interrupt flare blitz so Charizard has to be careful if Samus drops it in front of the ledge when Charizard starts flare blitz to recover. High recoveries to platforms with flare blitz is also an option as a mixup.

Samus has an incredible OoS option (up-b)
Any move Charizard would use on Samus' shield should outspace her uspecial OoS so this really should not be a huge problem if Charizard spaces well. Charizard players that fail to space outside of it will get punished heavily though. I forgot to mention that.

zair.....no lag...
Yea. Zair is really important too. You have to get smacked by that thing at least 10 times before you figure out how great of an option it is for Samus if you're unfamiliar with the MU lol.

Her bair can be an a-landing
You can a land with any of her aerials if you time it right iirc. She also doesn't have great surprise options out of a landings so maybe that's not the best option for her. Still something to make note of for Zard mains though.
 

Virum

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#8
This is one match-up I feel you have to play quite aggressively, as the typical defensive Zard can't quite handle this match-up well imo. Samus doesn't have much in the way of good anti pressure options so her out of shield game is pretty awful. She has no effective out of shield aerials due to the height of her short hop, her USmash is slow and trash and her grab is the slowest in the game so the only really good out of shield options she has are drop shield jab and Up B. Her jab is fast at frame 3 but it's negative on hit at low percents (you can cc jab) and it sends you too far at high percents for her to get anything off of it, so as a result Up B is the only thing you really need to fear and it's very high commitment so if it whiffs she dies at 60 from an FSmash.

The most effective moves in Samus' arsenal imo are ZAir, UAir, Dash Attack and Charge Shot. ZAir is her primary neutral and zoning tool . It's very safe on block and leads into quite a lot for her on successful confirm but one thing you have to note is that it's typically done via short hopping back and doing it late (because as aforementioned her short hop is huge). Because of the vulnerability of her short hop you can answer with an approaching FAir and attempt to apply pressure from there. Also be weary of when she uses it off the ledge. It's difficult to punish so it's best to just respect it.

UAir is an incredibly effective combo tool that leads into four of her aerials depending on DI and positioning as well as Up B in the air. It deals solid damage and has a pretty good hitbox so it's a pretty fantastic move overall. One of the key applications Samus will often use this for is while falling to combo into Up B, pressure with jab or FTilt or try to open you up with grab. Although this is powerful you must remember that because her grab is slow, shielding for a little longer than normal and not instantly attempting to buffer an oos option is generally the best option. Extended shielding covers Up B and jab, while the speed of her grab allows you to then buffer something like a drop shield to jab or Fly to avoid the grab.

Dash Attack is very strong vs Zard because of his huge hurtbox so it doesn't blind spot as much against Zard compared to other characters. It's her best combo starter, covers a lot of space and is hard for Zard to punish because the late hitbox is surprisingly safe and the early hitbox can cross you up and Zard has no effective answer to cross-ups. If it doesn't cross you up however it's an easy shield grab, so you just have to be wary of how this move hits your shield. If it hits you try to DI away to avoid the UAir as FAir a significantly less threatening tool because it doesn't keep you in the air and doesn't combo for as long as UAir.

Charge Shot is scary only when charged as one good read could mean your stock is gone at around 90 to 100, even earlier with rage. It also does a ton of damage to shield so it's incredibly important to try to power shield it especially if you've take prior shield damage from a Missile or Bomb.

As I mentioned before this match-up needs to be played quite aggressively to abuse Samus' poor out of shield game. Charizard's fantastic run speed is pretty much the shining star of this match-up as it allows him to quickly break Samus' zone to prevent her from completely walling you out. Typically Zard struggles against projectile based characters but due to Samus' zoning options being fairly slow it's not too bad vs her. Jab of course is incredible, Flamethrower beats Missiles and Bombs but loses to Charge Shot (11%+) and ZAir, FAir is also amazing and BAir is pretty great too.

The final thing to note is offstage Samus is pretty easy to edgeguard. Due to her poor air physics and bomb jumping being no where near as effective as it used to be it's not too difficult to chase her offstage for the FAir, BAir or DAir edgeguard. Overall this is one of the more doable projectile character match-ups for Zard. Carefully applied aggression and making use of your movement speed is key.
 
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