Charizard Matchup Discussion - Pit / Dark Pit

[Swamp Sensei]

Here, we can talk about the angels of Smash.

Link to Archive: http://smashboards.com/threads/lets-mega-evolve-charizard-matchup-archive.407883/

 

[CHOMPY]

Pit and Charizard is a interesting matchup. Looking at you, Handy Man

The way the matchup works is playing the bait and punish game on each other. Both of them have similar kill options, yet they have different attributes (weight, speed, knock back, etc.)

The way the matchup is played is Pit can rack up the damage quickly, while Charizard goes for the hard reads and can take advantage with the rage factor.

What Charizard needs to look out for from Pit are his 3-hit jabs, fair, nair, arrows, side B, uair, and grabs.

Neutral

In the early games, you want to deny Pit from trying to grab you. How do you prevent it? Simply go for some retreating fairs to space yourself out, and if Pit gets close enough withing jab range after he whiffs the grab, go for the 3-hit jab. Every once a while, mix it up by tossing out a dtilt. Even though they may put up their shield to block it, you can condition them to dash shield and then go for the dash grab. A cool way to punish Pit's grab is sidedodge into mutltiple utilts. In other words if Pit whiffs the grab while you sidedoge, Pit should be close enough where you can use a few utilt strings to a possible uair on him.

A fun fact that I wantto mention is Charizard's fair can actually outprioritize Pits rising nair if you time it well.

Landing

This is by far one of the most difficult things to deal with in this matchup. Due to his large size and Pits quick dash speed along with multi-hitbox aerials as well as his usmash. The only way Charizard can land safely is throw out some fast fall nair, or go for a falling fair to cover yourself. The best way to mix up the landing is go for a b-reverse flamethrower to prevent Pit from hitting you with his aerials (if spaced properly. Every once a while, go for a rock smash. Although I don't recommend using it a lot since it's unsafe most of the time against an opponent that can shield the rock smash and punish it accordingly. The safest way to land is to grab the ledge as if your fighting Rosalina who's trying to juggly you around with uairs.

Arrows

When Charizard is trying to get back on stage, you can airdodge to avoid the arrows. Flare Blitz can go right through the arrows, but make sure your close enough to grab the ledge.

If Pit is playing campy by shooting arrows on stage, you can adapt to the situation by dash shielding and punish him with a grab/tilt/jab after he fires the arrow on your shield.

Stage Choices

Pit is one of those characters that can adapt to any stage, whether it has jank, neutral stages with platforms, or simple flat stages. Obviously, you would want to take Pit to Duck Hunt, thanks to the tree branch thats near the top of the ceiling blast zone. Also, he can survive a bit longer from Pit's upperdash arm, thanks to the high ceilings.

If the Pit player were to ban Duck Hunt, then take him to Battlefield or Dreamland. The blastzones for both Dreamland and Battlefield are wide, you can survive a bit longer from Pits fthrow. Combine that with the DI, you can live up to 160% or higher, depending on how often Pit stales the fthrow. Keep in mind that Charizard can tech the platforum after Pit dthrows, that way you could potentially interrupt Pit's follow ups.

Overall
I want to say its 30-70 in favor, due to Pit having faster frame data, easier time to juggle, and stronger offstage game. The only thing Charizard has going is he is a heavy character that can last a very long time, can kill earlier (combine it with his rage), but you need to land the hard reads.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Pit and Charizard is a interesting matchup. Looking at you, Handy Man

The way the matchup works is playing the bait and punish game on each other. Both of them have similar kill options, yet they have different attributes (weight, speed, knock back, etc.)

The way the matchup is played is Pit can rack up the damage quickly, while Charizard goes for the hard reads and can take advantage with the rage factor.

What Charizard needs to look out for from Pit are his 3-hit jabs, fair, nair, arrows, side B, uair, and grabs.

Neutral

In the early games, you want to deny Pit from trying to grab you. How do you prevent it? Simply go for some retreating fairs to space yourself out, and if Pit gets close enough withing jab range after he whiffs the grab, go for the 3-hit jab. Every once a while, mix it up by tossing out a dtilt. Even though they may put up their shield to block it, you can condition them to dash shield and then go for the dash grab. A cool way to punish Pit's grab is sidedodge into mutltiple utilts. In other words if Pit whiffs the grab while you sidedoge, Pit should be close enough where you can use a few utilt strings to a possible uair on him.

A fun fact that I wantto mention is Charizard's fair can actually outprioritize Pits rising nair if you time it well.

Landing

This is by far one of the most difficult things to deal with in this matchup. Due to his large size and Pits quick dash speed along with multi-hitbox aerials as well as his usmash. The only way Charizard can land safely is throw out some fast fall nair, or go for a falling fair to cover yourself. The best way to mix up the landing is go for a b-reverse flamethrower to prevent Pit from hitting you with his aerials (if spaced properly. Every once a while, go for a rock smash. Although I don't recommend using it a lot since it's unsafe most of the time against an opponent that can shield the rock smash and punish it accordingly. The safest way to land is to grab the ledge as if your fighting Rosalina who's trying to juggly you around with uairs.

Arrows

When Charizard is trying to get back on stage, you can airdodge to avoid the arrows. Flare Blitz can go right through the arrows, but make sure your close enough to grab the ledge.

If Pit is playing campy by shooting arrows on stage, you can adapt to the situation by dash shielding and punish him with a grab/tilt/jab after he fires the arrow on your shield.

Stage Choices

Pit is one of those characters that can adapt to any stage, whether it has jank, neutral stages with platforms, or simple flat stages. Obviously, you would want to take Pit to Duck Hunt, thanks to the tree branch thats near the top of the ceiling blast zone. Also, he can survive a bit longer from Pit's upperdash arm, thanks to the high ceilings.

If the Pit player were to ban Duck Hunt, then take him to Battlefield or Dreamland. The blastzones for both Dreamland and Battlefield are wide, you can survive a bit longer from Pits fthrow. Combine that with the DI, you can live up to 160% or higher, depending on how often Pit stales the fthrow. Keep in mind that Charizard can tech the platforum after Pit dthrows, that way you could potentially interrupt Pit's follow ups.

Overall
I want to say its 30-70 in favor, due to Pit having faster frame data, easier time to juggle, and stronger offstage game. The only thing Charizard has going is he is a heavy character that can last a very long time, can kill earlier (combine it with his rage), but you need to land the hard reads.

I have to agree with this. Pit is one of our harder match ups, alongside, Sheik, Rosalina and Zero Suit Samus.

Thing is, I don't think Pit is one of the best characters either, he just has everything that shuts us down.

I will add that Rise and Fall Flamethrower is a nice tool in Neutral.

Would you recommend Pit or Dark Pit in this situation?

 

[CHOMPY]

Depending on what stage you go too is the character you'll pick. Stages with smaller blast zones, like Town and City, Smashville (on a taxi platform), and Duck Hunt are stages that Dark Pit benefits from, thanks to Dark Pit's side B that sends them horizontally. However, stages with lower ceilings like Dreamland, Battlefield, FD, and Halberd are stages that Pit can take advantage with his Side B. Most of the time you are going to see players use Pit over Dark Pit because Pit has better arrows, stronger ftilt, and side B can consistently kill earlier no matter where it hits them (on a platform benefits Pit even more).

TLDR; I would just use Pit.

 

[Handy Man]

Pit and Charizard is a interesting matchup. Looking at you, Handy Man

The way the matchup works is playing the bait and punish game on each other. Both of them have similar kill options, yet they have different attributes (weight, speed, knock back, etc.)

The way the matchup is played is Pit can rack up the damage quickly, while Charizard goes for the hard reads and can take advantage with the rage factor.

What Charizard needs to look out for from Pit are his 3-hit jabs, fair, nair, arrows, side B, uair, and grabs.

Neutral

In the early games, you want to deny Pit from trying to grab you. How do you prevent it? Simply go for some retreating fairs to space yourself out, and if Pit gets close enough withing jab range after he whiffs the grab, go for the 3-hit jab. Every once a while, mix it up by tossing out a dtilt. Even though they may put up their shield to block it, you can condition them to dash shield and then go for the dash grab. A cool way to punish Pit's grab is sidedodge into mutltiple utilts. In other words if Pit whiffs the grab while you sidedoge, Pit should be close enough where you can use a few utilt strings to a possible uair on him.

A fun fact that I wantto mention is Charizard's fair can actually outprioritize Pits rising nair if you time it well.

Landing

This is by far one of the most difficult things to deal with in this matchup. Due to his large size and Pits quick dash speed along with multi-hitbox aerials as well as his usmash. The only way Charizard can land safely is throw out some fast fall nair, or go for a falling fair to cover yourself. The best way to mix up the landing is go for a b-reverse flamethrower to prevent Pit from hitting you with his aerials (if spaced properly. Every once a while, go for a rock smash. Although I don't recommend using it a lot since it's unsafe most of the time against an opponent that can shield the rock smash and punish it accordingly. The safest way to land is to grab the ledge as if your fighting Rosalina who's trying to juggly you around with uairs.

Arrows

When Charizard is trying to get back on stage, you can airdodge to avoid the arrows. Flare Blitz can go right through the arrows, but make sure your close enough to grab the ledge.

If Pit is playing campy by shooting arrows on stage, you can adapt to the situation by dash shielding and punish him with a grab/tilt/jab after he fires the arrow on your shield.

Stage Choices

Pit is one of those characters that can adapt to any stage, whether it has jank, neutral stages with platforms, or simple flat stages. Obviously, you would want to take Pit to Duck Hunt, thanks to the tree branch thats near the top of the ceiling blast zone. Also, he can survive a bit longer from Pit's upperdash arm, thanks to the high ceilings.

If the Pit player were to ban Duck Hunt, then take him to Battlefield or Dreamland. The blastzones for both Dreamland and Battlefield are wide, you can survive a bit longer from Pits fthrow. Combine that with the DI, you can live up to 160% or higher, depending on how often Pit stales the fthrow. Keep in mind that Charizard can tech the platforum after Pit dthrows, that way you could potentially interrupt Pit's follow ups.

Overall
I want to say its 30-70 in favor, due to Pit having faster frame data, easier time to juggle, and stronger offstage game. The only thing Charizard has going is he is a heavy character that can last a very long time, can kill earlier (combine it with his rage), but you need to land the hard reads.

Speaking as a sparring partner of Chompy, I do agree with most of this. Landing against Pit alone makes this matchup very tough for Zard mains, as Pit's hitboxes tend to last for a while as well as the fact that Pit has good range all around. Pit is also very good at juggling, while Zard is one of the most juggable characters in the game due to his weight and horrible air speed.

However, I disagree with Duck Hunt being a good stage for this matchup; it's one of my least favorite stages for Zard actually. Duck Hunt is somewhat spacious and has a lot of platforms in usymmetrical positions, so there are plenty of opportunities for Pit to camp and give Zard a hard time with approaching. The small side blastzones also make it easy for Zard to die earlier. One of the few advantages Zard gets on Duck Hunt are that he can kill with Seismic Toss early on top of the tree, but that can be pretty predictable and hard to set up reliably. Battlefield and Dreamland are your best stages for this matchup, but if you can't go to either one of those, then Town and City and Lylat Cruise are good backup choices. The platforms on Town and City can give Zard an escape and also help with setting up Seismic Toss, while Lylat Cruise can mess with Pit's arrow's and giving him room to breathe.

Overall, this matchup is definitely not unwinnable. However, Pit has so many tools that can help him outspace and juggle Zard, and you have to play really smart with Zard if you want to win. You have to be really careful and not let Pit get you in the air, as even one mistake can cost you the entire match against Pit. Just try to stay grounded against him and don't let his range get the best of you, but don't be afraid of wanting to jump for tomahawk grabs or spacing with f-air, n-air, and Flamethrower. I agree with the matchup being 70-30 in Pit's favor.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

Well I couldn't have summed it up any better than you guys have, looks like my work here is done.