Charizard Matchup Discussion - Mii Gunner

AEMehr

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#2
I would imagine Charizard would have a tough time getting through a projectile wall.
 

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#3
I would imagine Charizard would have a tough time getting through a projectile wall.
Indeed.

But in our matches once I got in, you had problems keeping me out.

Plus your recovery is easily gimped.
 

san.

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#6
Gunner's recovery is tougher to deal with now that it can be covered with missile. Gunner can missile->double jump+missile(or anything else like fair) and make it back. Similar to Villager's coverage with an average distance upB.

New missile frame data makes it pretty tough to deal with him.

Up close, Charizard's jab seems like it can beat most of Gunner's immediate options. Gunner will want to keep it at mid range or slightly greater than mid-range, where he honestly dominates IMO.

Not too bad for Charizard if he can power shield > 80% of the time.
 
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-LzR-

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#7
I played this matchup a couple days ago. I found it to be a very tough matchup but it was my first time playing against one so I will try to play it again before I add any detailed input.
 

-LzR-

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#10
One thing that I'm wondering about matchup, I'm actually seriously considering Flare Blitz here. Dragon Rush is still good but it is only really useful when done it the air where it doesn't get stopped by the projectiles as easily. Flare Blitz might be able to keep them in check at higher %. This is one of the rare matchups where I believe Blitz has it's place.
Any thoughts?
 

AEMehr

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#11
Yesterday.

In Chicago.
I've been waiting.
Also, to you Mii Gunner mains. What do you think of Rock Smash?
Up close it's probably bad, but since Gunner is like half the stage away from you most of the time it probably doesn't even matter.
One thing that I'm wondering about matchup, I'm actually seriously considering Flare Blitz here. Dragon Rush is still good but it is only really useful when done it the air where it doesn't get stopped by the projectiles as easily. Flare Blitz might be able to keep them in check at higher %. This is one of the rare matchups where I believe Blitz has it's place.
Any thoughts?
From what I recall pretty much every projectile just stops Flare Blitz in it's tracks, so iunno. Dragon Rush would probably be the safer option, especially since Gunner catch you off the ground with Down Tilt / Smash (which can kill at high%s so it becomes even more unsafe).
 

-LzR-

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#12
From what I recall pretty much every projectile just stops Flare Blitz in it's tracks, so iunno. Dragon Rush would probably be the safer option, especially since Gunner catch you off the ground with Down Tilt / Smash (which can kill at high%s so it becomes even more unsafe).
Really? I thought being able to get right through most projectiles was the whole point of the move. Do Gunners projectiles do over 14%?

Then what about random stuff like Fireball cannon? Flamethrower is still 100 times better but this is again one of those cases where I might actually consider it. Just trying to look at all the possibilities.
 

AEMehr

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#13
I'd have to experiment with it again, things might have changed in a patch since then but I do recall Grenades, Flame Pillar, and potentially fair just clanging the move. Grenades might no longer do this, but I semi doubt it if Flare Blitz has remained the same more or less throughout the patches.

~I did it~
Projectiles that will stop / clang Flare Blitz:
Charged Shot (Medium Charge and Above)
Flame Pillar (At all times)
Stealth Shot (if timed correctly)
Bomb Drop (Still hits Gunner if used on ground)
Grenade Launch (If not yet exploded, will still end move during start-up though)

Flare Blitz goes through the remain moves at all times.
Fair
Charged Shot (Below Medium Charge)
Laser Blaze
Grenade Launch (During explosion)
Gunner Missile (Both Variations)
Lunar Launch

Considering that pretty much any Mii Gunner trying to play their character decently is going to avoid Laser Blaze like the plauge, Charged Shot and Grenade Launch are more than likely always going to be an answer to Flare Blitz. So there's that I guess.
 
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Charey

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#14
For whatever reason Dragon Rush will go through Gunner's grenades like they are not even there sometimes, making it the only projectile in the game that Dragon Rush can beat. But sometimes it clanks anyways and I couldn't see a difference between grenades that clanked and the ones that got out-prioritized.

Fireball canon seems to work well here, if they try to camp you can out camp them, you need to be careful of over committing against a smallest gunner who might get past it before the three shots are out if they are too close.
 

Steeler

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#16
Doesn't Zard's Flare Blitz have KB based Heavy Armor?
It's damage, breaks at 14% tanked.

However, because of how it works, if he runs into an item/something with a hurtbox or a wall, he will collide with it and bounce off. Mechakoopa, Gyro, Villager Tree, etc.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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#17
So me and @ AEMehr AEMehr had our games a long time ago.

And well...

It depends...

Mii Gunner has a relatively hard time killing which I honestly didn't expect. Our weight is our greatest ally.

That said, projectiles are everywhere. And even chip damage will make our lives hard.

I recommend stages like FD, Duck Hunt or Town and City as they have lots of space for you to jump around. Going by air is probably our safest approach.
 
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EvilPinkamina

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#18
Mii Gunner always has a hard time killing from what I've been told. I'd imagine any bigger stage would be really good for Zard, since we have a pretty easy time getting kills with our throws and smashes and up tilt. If 0/0 is truly the most optimal Mii gunner, then that only increases our advantage.

Thinking about it though, larger stages allow for Mii Gunner to do the fair gliding thing and gives Gunner more mobility options. I'd probably say this is an even matchup.
 
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