Charicific Valley • The Project: M Charizard General Discussion Thread

[Kuraudo]

Welcome to the valley.​

So just as it sounds, this is where everything Charizard is discussed! Talk about his buffs and nerfs, his past and current builds in Project: M, or just talk about whatever the heck you want that's Charizard related. Share some cool tips and tricks that work for you as a Charizard main.

 

[SinisterB]

Charizard feels so glorious and better than ever. Aerozard is definitely the best, though.

 

[Kuraudo]

I'll stick with the original and Shiny Charizard. Unless someone else feels up for it, I may also put up a Video archive thread to record past and present Charizard matches.

 

[metroid1117]

If anyone doesn't mind, I'd be willing to manage a Charizard video thread with a similar format to the Ike Video Discussion Thread on Smashmods.

But yeah, Charizard is amazing. DSmash, jab, and NAir are too good.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

how come this has a poketrainer head, when it should have this? harizardbrawl:

 

[GunBlaze]

how come this has a poketrainer head, when it should have this? harizardbrawl:

Also need love, man

 

[Kuraudo]

If anyone doesn't mind, I'd be willing to manage a Charizard video thread with a similar format to the Ike Video Discussion Thread on Smashmods.

But yeah, Charizard is amazing. DSmash, jab, and NAir are too good.

Sounds like a plan to me! Go right on ahead, we'd be happy to have you make a video thread.

My three favorite moves are jab, USmash and NAir.

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

I notice a distinct lack of a certain move being discussed here.

What was it called..Slide? Clide?

 

[roymaster803]

so how do you all think Zard will do in 2.5? I think he's better than before. I've already had that Fire Punch hit people with it's lingering hitbox here and there. Fire punch=F-air. Nair's sweet spots are better especially the beginning. D-throw isn't as good as 2.1 but is still very useful. Dsmash's meteor hitbox is bigger I believe. Anyone else?

 

[metroid1117]

so how do you all think Zard will do in 2.5? I think he's better than before. I've already had that Fire Punch hit people with it's lingering hitbox here and there. Fire punch=F-air. Nair's sweet spots are better especially the beginning. D-throw isn't as good as 2.1 but is still very useful. Dsmash's meteor hitbox is bigger I believe. Anyone else?

I think Charizard will do just fine in Demo 2.5; I thought he was around middle tier in Demo 2.1, and some of his biggest problems have now been addressed.

DSmash's hitboxes are slightly smaller than in Demo 2.1, by the way.

 

[NightShadow6]

His new fair is simply amazing, just in general I feel like his attacks are faster.

His sideb is much easier to combo into now, say you could combo with fair if the angle is right. His tilts have been sped up aside from uptilt, much better hitboxes though.

Charizard is gonna rock.

 

[roymaster803]

Yeah, his hitboxes have been fixed on a good many moves, mainly his U-tilt, and wing attack(Neutral-A) I think U-smash might have gotten some hitbox tweaks but idk. I find U-special harder to finish with, maybe i'm just not doing it right. I also noticed that B-air is now a single hit not double. The wing hitbox has been removed and it's only his tail now. I love Zard now. especially now that Seismic toss is a better kill move and it looks boss.

 

[metroid1117]

I find U-special harder to finish with, maybe i'm just not doing it right.

Up+B is indeed harder to finish with; because the sweetspot is only at the beginning portion of the move and you must hit with Charizard's nose, the opponent has to be in a more specific position for you to connect it. This is in contrast to Demo 2.1, where the attack had constant knockback throughout the animation, so you could connect with the very end and it still had the same knockback as the beginning portion. Try comboing into and using the current up+B earlier than you would for Demo 2.1; it's considerably stronger than before, so you'll be getting really early kills from it.

 

[SpiderMad]

I remember MaxThunder talking about some mechanic that was in 2.0 that was sort of a bug, but was taken out in 2.1 due to them being unable to make it look more aesthetically pleasing. Was that addressed at all to try and get it into 2.5 or is it already in?

 

[MaxThunder]

doubt it's in... haven't tested, though...
not sure he needs it, either... though it would be cool to do instant reverse nairs or something off edges...

 

[TheEnigmaLiesBroken]

I love new Charizard. I'm pretty sure he'll be one of my new mains.
Now you guys just need to finally get that clone engine working and add mewtwo for real :D

 

[Kyu Puff]

Any changes to grounded fly?

2.5 Charizard looks awesome.

 

[metroid1117]

A minor bug was fixed, but nothing major IMO.

 

[GunBlaze]

A minor bug was fixed, but nothing major IMO.

Is that the reason we have infinite glides?

 

[Kyu Puff]

Is there anywhere I can find a list of all the changes? I don't have access to the game right now so I can't try this stuff out yet...

 

[roymaster803]

The changes for all characters will be up in the next 2 weeks according to the PMBR. Also Zard's ground Fly charges faster so you can go higher quicker making it much better for chasing into the air.

 

[stingers]

whats 2.5 done for him? I wont have the chance to play for another week =[

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

2.5 has made him absolutely wonderful.

Basically his fair and his dsmash have a little less lag, his ftilt is extremely fast and has epic range, he can glide pretty much infinitely (jump OoG, glide (downb), jump OoG, repeat) and his utilt is a bit better.

 

[metroid1117]

2.5 has made him absolutely wonderful.

Basically his fair and his dsmash have a little less lag, his ftilt is extremely fast and has epic range, he can glide pretty much infinitely (jump OoG, glide (downb), jump OoG, repeat) and his utilt is a bit better.

In terms of IASA frames, I don't think anything was changed about DSmash from Demo 2.1.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Ah, really? I remember hearing about dsmash taking less frames to move out of, and it felt like that when I played him some, but if the frames were never changed then it must have just been due to the overall P:M speed increase.

 

[xKobayashi]

does teching out of zards dsmash to dair (then repeat) make it escapable cause i can imagine it being a sort of pillar

also at low percents should i always dthrow or are there better options/setups with other throws (depending on character/stage position) cause i heard they nerfed dthrow

 

[NightShadow6]

I would use bthrow as it sets up perfectly for a fair. (Or whatever air move really, even side b sometimes)

On spacies it sets up a position where they have to tech so you can get a good read possibly.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

I usually use dthrow -> jab (just A) as it comes out super fast and seems to be pretty much untechable, and it sets up for just about any aerial.

Unfortunately this is coming from only practice with CPUs but based on the speed it seems pretty reliable.

 

[stingers]

dthrow jab can be teched but it takes good timing. its a good mixup at any rate cuz its so fast that u might be able to chase their roll anyway

i think. havent played the game yet >.>

 

[MaxThunder]

pretty sure there's more lag on it and it's less reliable...

 

[xKobayashi]

do you guys think the fox/falco vs charizard matchup is viable played at the highest level on both ends, or do you think that the spacies could just camp/outpressure zard to the point where he isn't as competent

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

I remember reading this before on Smashmods; "Charizard is the king of gimping, and Falco is the king of getting gimped." But if the Falco is a campy one, it's almost a worse MU than Lucario:Zard.

Fox I'm not entirely sure about, but I could see him being a challenge. I think Zard's options haven't been fully mapped out as of yet, especially with the new buffs in 2.5 that people are relearning. His potential is yet to be fully rounded, but Fox and Falco's are quite known with few changes. Time and matches will tell.

 

[MaxThunder]

i think fox is a viable matchup... falco can also be that cause of zard's awezome gimps and combos and stuff...
but to tell the truth, i found no way to fight back against lasers... even the few times i managed to reflect them<.<...

 

[xKobayashi]

i mostly just try to stay up in the air with multiple jumps and try to bait falco onto platforms then jump away and nair.... people are saying up b out of shield is a good way to combat imperfect shield pressure but i have yet to implement/try this

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Charizard is gonna rock.

I find this to be ironic (and humorous), because Charizard lost his original Side B.

Though I do agree with you, lol

he can glide pretty much infinitely (jump OoG, glide (downb), jump OoG, repeat)

If your timing is perfect enough, 'Zard can actually GAIN height this way. Similar to Rising Pound, but a bit harder to do and more effective.

More than that though, I love how he can turn around while gliding now. Makes him a lot safer in the air.

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

Played my first Wifi-Zard match today! yeha xD

Question of the day:
Are there any 100% followups for Usmash/Jab against floaty characters? Seems like they can almost always jump out or counterattack?!

 

[stingers]

Id recommend (tippered) nair on floaties, u wont be getting long combo strings anyway so u might as well get em up there, do good damage, and open up juggle opportunities

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

yeah, i guess that'd be a good idea, been trying to hit with uair/fairs

 

[MaxThunder]

i just figured out something cool with up-b=)...

when you do up-b into a ceiling that stops you, you can move forward by holding stick forward... with this you can jump in under some stages and reverse sweetspot the ledge with up-b... gathering footage to make a vid about it cause it's funny=)...

 

[Master WGS]

inb4 Charizard got way too nerfed lol