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Characters who would be difficult to include in Smash

Luigifan18

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This is a thread where we can talk about characters we'd love to see in Smash, but we just can't imagine a viable moveset for them.

For me, I would love to see Viewtiful Joe, but let's face it, his VFX powers are a huge part of what make his games tick, and those are designed for a single-player experience; give them to a fighting game character, and controllers are going to be hurled at the TV.
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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The Prince from Prince of Persia. The time powers would be hardware intensive and probably annoying for opponents.
 

Frizz

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Mounted characters from Fire Emblem, such as Pegasus Knights, Cavalry, Dracoknights, etc. They'd either have to be scaled down awkwardly like Ridley, or just straight up remove the animal and reserve it for a few moves.
 

NintenRob

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Something that I don't see bring up often regarding a Popular character: Paper Mario.


I just wonder if his flatness would work in Smash, Game & Watch works, because he's just a detailess 3D Model edited to appear flat. But that technique wouldn't work for Paper Mario. In many ways he's just a compilation of different sprites, but how would they handle that when he's being thrown with a throw the kinda uses a shared animation across models.
 

Luigifan18

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The Prince from Prince of Persia. The time powers would be hardware intensive and probably annoying for opponents.
So, basically, the same problems as Viewtiful Joe.

Mounted characters from Fire Emblem, such as Pegasus Knights, Cavalry, Dracoknights, etc. They'd either have to be scaled down awkwardly like Ridley, or just straight up remove the animal and reserve it for a few moves.
Oh ho ho... buddy, you're just scratching the tip of the iceberg.

Something that I don't see bring up often regarding a Popular character: Paper Mario.


I just wonder if his flatness would work in Smash, Game & Watch works, because he's just a detailess 3D Model edited to appear flat. But that technique wouldn't work for Paper Mario. In many ways he's just a compilation of different sprites, but how would they handle that when he's being thrown with a throw the kinda uses a shared animation across models.
Paper Mario games have consistently taken place in 3-D worlds (except Super Paper Mario, whose gimmick involved Mario swapping from 2-D to 3-D and back again). I don't think 2-D-to-3-D translation is a reason why Paper Mario can't be in Smash.
 

NintenRob

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So, basically, the same problems as Viewtiful Joe.



Oh ho ho... buddy, you're just scratching the tip of the iceberg.



Paper Mario games have consistently taken place in 3-D worlds (except Super Paper Mario, whose gimmick involved Mario swapping from 2-D to 3-D and back again). I don't think 2-D-to-3-D translation is a reason why Paper Mario can't be in Smash.
But Paper Mario is a very different thing to Smash, it obviously works there because the games were designed for it.


But Smash could be more complicated due to his model being so different and having multiple sprites.

I'm not saying its an issue that definitely exists, but I can see the translation being very difficult.
 

Iko MattOrr

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Rick, Kine and Coo. They work in Kirby because you have underwater sections and Kine can do stuff. In Smash Kine would appear way less because water is unusual, and they would not feel like a trio at all because of this.
Also, the character switching gimmick wouldn't look very well in Smash... Toad and other characters appear out of nowhere but usually when a character is a duo (or a trio), all the members of the group are always on the stage (Ice Climbers, Rosalina and Luma, Duck Hunt...).
Rick, Kine and Coo would work very well as assist trophies though (they kinda already did it in a stage of Kirby Fighters).

Third party, Ecco the Dolphin, for the same reason (except that he is a full-time water character and wouldn't make sense on land at all, so its situation is even worse).

(unrelated: it's almost time, the Direct is close!)
 

Ridrool64

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Paper Mario, if I do recall, is only a sprite in 64. In the other games, he’s a model flattened much like Game and Watch is. A series of models positioned to give the illusion of him being flat.
 

Luigifan18

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Jason Frudnik from Blaster Master has, what, 13 different attacks if we're being generous? It's hard to imagine Sophia III being anything other than a Final Smash.
 

Iko MattOrr

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What about the prince from Katamari? How is he even supposed to play?!? He can roll the stuff up, and grow the mass of stuff larger, and larger, and uhm... no, it CAN'T work in Smash.
 

Robertroid

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Athena Asamiya...it's sad because our idol waifu has been since the Famicom era; she's just a step below the main faces of KOF, yet she's still famous and recognizable; KOF represents a whole genre, rivaling SF of course; an idol psychic fighter sounds just nice to have in smash; and she have the perfect moveset with:
- Psycho Sword (Up + B)
- Phoenix Arrow (Down + B, only air)
- Psycho Bolt (Forward + B)
- Psycho Reflector (Neutral B)
- Shining Crystal Bit (Final Smash)
Or, she could include her Psychic Teleport as Forward + B to add uniqueness.
Sadly it won't happen, orz
 

Luigifan18

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Athena Asamiya...it's sad because our idol waifu has been since the Famicom era; she's just a step below the main faces of KOF, yet she's still famous and recognizable; KOF represents a whole genre, rivaling SF of course; an idol psychic fighter sounds just nice to have in smash; and she have the perfect moveset with:
- Psycho Sword (Up + B)
- Phoenix Arrow (Down + B, only air)
- Psycho Bolt (Forward + B)
- Psycho Reflector (Neutral B)
- Shining Crystal Bit (Final Smash)
Or, she could include her Psychic Teleport as Forward + B to add uniqueness.
Sadly it won't happen, orz
This thread is more for characters who can't make it in Smash for mechanical reasons such as lack of moveset material, being defined by abilities that wouldn't translate well to Smash, or other issues (like the whole "Ridley is too big" thing), not because of licensing issues or lack of relevance.

...Well, that was my original intention, anyway. Licensing issues and relevance concerns are legitimate difficulties for a character being implemented in Smash.
 
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Robertroid

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Oh...
That's what I get for replying so fast without reading the first post. No wonder shampoo's instructions were made for me, lol.
My deepest sorrymasen u_u
 

Veggi

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I would have thought Inklings were really difficult to put into Smash because they need to have ink to move faster than a snail and they would have to remove /something/ about covering the stage in ink and moving through it to make Inklings' ink mechanic not completely overcentralize the match. So I guess what they did is they just made the ink mechanic only work on one move and the Inklings run as though the stage is always inked, then make the squid constantly jumping so the Inkling can consistently be hit while swimming.

As much as I love Spring Man, I feel like he would be hard to program and balance. But...it should be done anyway. Like are his arms supposed to function like projectiles? Because if they're not I think he would be the only character that can perform other animations while throwing non-projectile moves. If they are projectiles, would it be weird for the projectile to be attached to him? Would that be hard to program? Villager and Isabelle certainly couldn't pocket them. How would curved arms work in a 2D game? Would they hit people out of spot dodges? Would he throw one punch and then have the choice to throw his other punch? What would the inputs for that look like?

He definitely brings a lot of questions to the table.

KK Slider would be cool but weird too. Maybe he could work like the Hunting Horn from Monster Hunter? But Smash characters attack a lot faster than monsters from Monster Hunter and there's a lot less space. He might not get a chance to play. :^(
 

Luigifan18

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Blinx would have the exact same problem as Viewtiful Joe and modern Prince of Persia — the identity of his games revolves around controlling the flow of time, which is incredibly cool when you're the one using said powers in a single-player experience, but when said powers are being used against you in a multiplayer game, "annoying" is really the simplest term I can use to describe it. Having your control over your character get disrupted constantly is just plain not fun. But Blinx without the ability to control time simply isn't Blinx anymore... he's more like furry Luigi (if we narrowly define Luigi strictly in the context of the Luigi's Mansion games) or Kirby without flight or Copy Abilities.

Before you get on my case for harping on about time manipulation, yes, I know that Bayonetta somehow makes time control work as a gameplay mechanic in Smash without being horrendously infuriating to play against. This is achieved mainly by restricting her time-manipulating abilities to a counter move (thus making the time-slow effect strictly a punishment for a recklessly-executed, overly predictable, or slow-starting assault against her rather than something she can slap on her opponent whenever she feels like it) and her Final Smash (which by its very nature is not something that can be utilized whenever its user feels like it). And keep in mind that even with the fact that if you get slowed down by Bayonetta, it's partially your own fault for attacking her when she's expecting you to do so and able to respond (or for not preventing her from getting a Smash Ball), it's still a borderline-overpowered move that is a huge part of the reason why she's top tier and considered degenerative to the metagame. And for Bayonetta, manipulating time strictly as a counterattack makes sense, because that's how it works in her own games. Viewtiful Joe, Prince of Persia, and Blinx all toggle their time manipulation on and off at will (as long as they have the VFX energy, sand, or crystals, respectively, required to activate and maintain it; they can't manipulate time indefinitely), but the sheer fact that they can start or stop manipulating time whenever they feel like it is just absolutely not kosher for a game like Super Smash Bros. — and if you take these abilities away from them, you strip them of a vital component of their identities.
 
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DerErlenkonig

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Sans.

His whole schtick is that he has 1 Health and exploits game mechanics to win. It just doesn't seem possible to faithfully adapt him into a fighter.
 

Luigifan18

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Isaac.

Honestly I don't think he has a chance.
Please explain why Isaac "stands no chance". Of all the Isaacs I can think of in gaming (Golden Sun, Binding of Isaac, Lost Magic, Dead Space, the GBC adaptation of the Pokémon trading card game, Pokémon Ranger: Shadows of Almia, and probably a dozen others that I've never heard of or are slipping my mind right now), almost all of them have plenty of material to build a moveset with (the card-game player and Ranger school boy being the major exceptions). As for relevance and popularity, Lost Magic was admittedly a one-off title that didn't get enough popularity to become a proper franchise (and even if it did, all of its possible endings made it pretty much impossible to have a sequel), but Golden Sun Isaac has a massive fan base pushing for his inclusion in Smash, The Binding of Isaac is one of the biggest success stories in indie game history, and even Dead Space, while having gone unheard-from for the past five or so years, was big enough in its heyday for its Isaac to be included as DLC in PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale and serve as the designated rival for friggin' Zeus from God of War. So, no, none of those characters would be ill-suited to show up in Super Smash Bros.
 

User Name String

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Advance Wars Andy: Tanks would either is too big or too small. You would have to make an entire gimmick around his fighting style due to the nature of his series and the best I can think of is a wrench to attack, build-able weaponry (Think Turrets) and attaching different weaponry from the player units in the series..
 

Luigifan18

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Jason Frudnik from Blaster Master has, what, 13 different attacks if we're being generous? It's hard to imagine Sophia III being anything other than a Final Smash.
Well, this post aged poorly, if this video by ????????????? ????????????? is any indication:

 
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Sari

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Spy from TF2 since going invisible and disguising yourself as the opponent would be impossible to properly implement due to the game being on a single screen and a lot of fights generally being 1v1.
 

Cruelcumber

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It pains me to say it, but any Digimon rep if the series is to have faithful representation. Sure Rumble Arena 2 is a Smash-like Digimon platform fighter, although to truly get a Digimon represented, you'd have to include digivolution as a mechanic. For example, say that Dorumon ends up being the representative for Digimon in Smash Bros theoretically (picked in this case because he's my favorite Digimon). Dorumon is in his Child/Rookie stage, which would be the base. Like in Rumble Arena 2, a Digimon would gradually increase their digivolution bar to digivolve into later stages. After Child/Rookie comes Adult/Champion (Dorugamon), Perfect/Ultimate (DoruGreymon), and Ultimate/Mega (Dorugoramon). That's a total of four forms for a fighter to have. Rumble Arena 2 shafted this by only giving Digimon three forms (and having bizarre digivolutions like Flamedramon becoming Imperialdramon, when something like ExVeemon or Paildramon would have made more sense). But to truly get a Digimon's family across, all four stages are a must to be faithful. Yes Baby/Fresh and Baby II/In-Training are also a thing, but in many Digimon games those forms are too weak for combat, so they can be excused (although seeing them as potential Spirits would still be nice if Digimon ever did get in).

Then there's the virtual pet mechanics, since Digimon first started as Tamagotchis designed to appeal more to males by Bandai. Of course, now it can also be debated on if starting off as a Tamagotchi counts as being a video game rep, but that's another debate. Sure you could have the Digimon character have a down special that incorporates the V-Pet mechanics, but that brings up another regard: direct control. In the Digimon games more faithful to their V-Pet origins such as Digimon World 1 & Next Order, you don't have direct control, instead they act automatically. This isn't the case for other Digimon games however, since Digimon doesn't really abide to following a certain format unlike the main series Pokemon titles. But it is something to keep in mind when pondering about the idea of a faithful Digimon rep. I highly doubt Sakurai would allow for a fighter that's completely AI-controlled though, but even besides that, all the care-taking mechanics in V-Pets would be something decently considered.

Sure it's possible to pick something like a high-level Mega such as Omnimon and call it a day by not including any of the mechanics I discussed in the paragraphs above. But that's like not incorporating Kirby's ability to copy opponents in Smash, Link's arsenal of tools, Mr. Game & Watch's references, and etc. When I think of a character that's incredibly faithful, I think of Simon Belmont since he represents his franchise in such a satisfying, well-crafted way that shows true dedication. On the opposite end, when I think of a character that could use some severe updating to be more faithful and represent their series better, I think of Samus. And as a long-time Digimon fan, I would rather have a Digimon be represented like Simon is rather than the insufficient, half-baked way Samus is.

Overall, I don't think a Digimon rep would be impossible in Smash, but to represent the franchise in a way that would satisfy fans, it would be incredibly difficult and time-consuming, with a lot of issues that would have to be addressed in order to ensure Digimon would smoothly translate into the world of Smash.
 
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