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Character Survival Rankings

Luigi player

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Messages
4,106
Location
Austria
Here you have a survival ranking of the characters. Vertically and horizontally. It incorporates DI and other survival techniques doublejump, aerials, specials...[hurtbox shifting]), so you can see who really lives longer than others (the game weight rankings don't show this 100 % accurately, because of fallspeed influencing vertical survival and even the characters postures when getting sent flying).

As you'll see there will be characters with the same rank/KO-%. This doesn't mean they are completely the same. With weaker moves there could likely be a small difference over time.
The % might also not be 100 % accurate for all characters. I might not DI perfectly 0/180° all the time. This means the % could be +-1 (it shouldn't be too much of a difference if I maybe messed up).

The horizontal ranking also seems to change over time a little (depending on %, or even the angle of moves, it's a mystery...). Bowser and DK KO Jigglypuff sooner than they would Mewtwo with their fsmashes without DI, but at higher % Mewtwo seems to die earlier.
Because of this I show 2 rankings. One for Mewtwos backthrow and one for Luigis.

For the ranking I'm also not counting the momentumcancel action, I'm not sure if I should.
But you can see how you could survive longer with some characters (there might be a few moves I'm not using for some, because I don't know about their momentumcancelling / hurtbox shifting property). "(-)" means I always died at the same % no matter what I tried (some can even doublejump or do other moves, but don't stop enough momentum with them, while some are still in hitstun). For the horizontal ranking the DI method is likely not perfect for survival, but it comes close.

Note: sometimes when characters are thrown they enter a spinning animation, which makes it so their posture is different and they can die earlier or survive longer because of it. This "spinning" seems to occur more often the higher the % of the hit character are(?). In my tests I never used the spinning as the % and always tried again to have the normal flying-away animation for more accurate results. Just keep in mind that the spinning can change the outcome a tiny bit.

The rankings have their "cuts" every 10 % (0-9 is one section, 10-19 is the next one, etc.).
Miis are not included (because of different sizes).

And without further ado, here they are:

Vertical Ranking:

Tested:
KO-% of the characters, if Mewtwo Uthrows them (on Battlefields Omega Stage (Wii U)).
No Rage (Training Mode). Opponent DIs (0°/180°, to survive as long as possible)!


Dedede
1. :4dedede:Dedede: 166 %

DK
2. :4dk:DK: 156 %
3. :4bowser:Bowser: 150 % (since 1.1.5; previously it was 149 %)

Very Heavy
4. :4falcon:Captain Falcon: 148 %
4. :4ganondorf:Ganondorf: 148 % (since 1.1.4; previously it was 147 %)
6. :4myfriends:Ike: 147 %
7. :4megaman:Megaman: 145 %
7. :4bowserjr:Bowser Jr.: 145 %
9. :4lucario:Lucario: 144 % (since 1.1.3; previously it was 141 %)
10. :4cloud:Cloud: 143 % (147 % with fully charged limit)
11. :4link:Link: 142 %
12. :4wario2:Wario: 140 %
12. :4shulk:Shulk: 140 %
12. :4rob:ROB: 140 %

Heavy-Middle
15. :4samus:Samus: 139 %
15. :4charizard:Charizard: 139 %
15. :4feroy:Roy: 139 %
15. :4ryu:Ryu: 139 %
15. :4corrinf:Corrin 139 %
20. :4duckhunt:Duck Hunt: 137 %
21. :4diddy:Diddy: 136 %
22. :4mario:Mario: 135 %
22. :4drmario:Dr.Mario: 135 %
22. :4pit:Pit: 135 %
22. :4darkpit:Dark Pit: 135 %
26. :4yoshi:Yoshi: 134 %
26. :4marth:Marth: 134 %
26. :4lucina:Lucina: 134 %
26. :4robinm:Robin: 134 %
26. :4littlemac:Little Mac: 134 %
31. :4sonic:Sonic: 131 % (since 1.1.4; previously it was 132 %)
31. :4villager:Villager: 131 %
31. :4bayonetta:Bayonetta: 131 %

Middle-Light
34. :4pacman:Pacman: 129 %
34. :4luigi:Luigi: 129 %
36. :4ness:Ness: 128 %
36. :4wiifit:WiiFitTrainer: 128 %
38. :4lucas:Lucas: 127 %
39. :4zss:ZSS: 126 % (since 1.1.4; previously it was 127 %)
39. :4tlink:Toon Link: 126 %
39. :4falco:Falco: 126 %
39. :4greninja:Greninja: 126 %
43. :4palutena:Palutena: 125 %
44. :4zelda:Zelda: 124 %
45. :4peach:Peach: 123 %
46. :4sheik:Sheik: 122 % (since 1.1.4; previously it was 123 %)
46. :4fox:Fox: 122 %
48. :4metaknight:MetaKnight: 121 %
49. :4olimar:Olimar: 120 %

Lightweights
50. :4pikachu:Pikachu: 119 %
51. :4kirby:Kirby: 118 % (since 1.1.4; previously it was 117 %)
52. :4mewtwo:Mewtwo: 117 % ---------> 1.1.5 -> 119 %
53. :rosalina:Rosalina: 116 % (since 1.1.4; previously it was 117 %)
54. :4gaw:GaW: 111 %

Jigglypuff
55. :4jigglypuff:Jigglypuff: 107 %

Highest: 166
Lowest: 107
Average: 133


Horizontal Ranking:

Tested:
KO-% of the characters, if Mewtwo Bthrows them (on the left edge of Battlefields Omega Stage (Wii U)).
No Rage (Training Mode). Opponent DIs (180°, to survive longer)!


Super Heavy
1. :4dk:DK: 142 % (-) [uair doesn't help | he gets KO'd at 141 with doublejump or upB]
2. :4bowser:Bowser: 141 % (doublejump 146 %)

Very Heavy
3. :4dedede:Dedede: 137 % (dair 139 %)
4. :4rob:ROB: 133 % (-)
5. :4charizard:Charizard: 131 % (fair 134 %, doublejump 136 %)
5. :4yoshi:Yoshi: 131 % (-)

Heavy-Middle
7. :4ganondorf:Ganondorf: 129 % (doublejump 134 %)
7. :4samus:Samus: 129 % (doublejump or uair 131 %, downB 132 %)
7. :4wario2:Wario: 129 % (doublejump 130 %, fair 131 %)
10. :4bowserjr:Bowser Jr.: 128 % (doublejump 131 %)
10. :4myfriends:Ike: 128 % (doublejump 130 %)
12. :4falcon:C.Falcon: 126 % (doublejump 130 %)
12. :4link:Link: 126 % (doublejump 130 %)
12. :4megaman:Megaman: 126 % (doublejump 129 %)
15. :4mario:Mario: 125 % (doublejump 127 %)

Middle-Light
16. :4shulk:Shulk: 124 % (doublejump 127 %)
16. :4drmario:Dr.Mario: 124 % (doublejump 126 %) [fair doesn't help]
16. :4luigi:Luigi: 124 % (doublejump or fair 125 %)
16. :4cloud:Cloud: 124 % (doublejump 125 %) [limit doesn't help]
20. :4ryu:Ryu: 123 % (doublejump 129 %, sideB 130 %)
20. :4lucario:Lucario: 123 % (fair 125 %, doublejump 127 %)
22. :4pacman:Pacman: 122 % (doublejump 124 %, fair 127 %)
22. :4robinf:Robin: 122 % (doublejump 126 %)
22. :4corrin:Corrin: 122 % (uair 124 %, doublejump 125 %)
22. :4villager:Villager: 122 % (doublejump or sideB 124 %)
26. :4wiifit:WiiFitTrainer: 121 % (doublejump 124 %)
26. :4pit:Pit: 121 % (doublejump or fair 124 %)
26. :4darkpit:Dark Pit: 121 % (doublejump or fair 124 %)
29. :4feroy:Roy: 120 % (upB 122 %, doublejump 124 %)
29. :4lucas:Lucas: 120 % (doublejump 123 %)
29. :4ness:Ness: 120 % (fair 121 %, doublejump 122 %)
29. :4tlink:Toon Link: 120 % (doublejump 121 %)
29. :4greninja:Greninja: 120 % (-)

Lightweights
34. :4sonic:Sonic: 119 % (doublejump 121 %, fair 122 %)
34. :4marth:Marth: 119 % (upB 121 %, doublejump or fair 122 %)
34. :4lucina:Lucina: 119 % (doublejump, fair or upB 121 %)
37. :4duckhunt:Duck Hunt: 118 % (doublejump 121 %, fair 122 %)
37. :4palutena:Palutena: 118 % (fair 119 %, doublejump 120 %)
37. :4diddy:Diddy: 118 % (doublejump 119 %)
40. :4peach:Peach: 117 % (doublejump or fair 119 %)
41. :4bayonetta:Bayonetta: 114 % (doublejump 116 %)
41. :4kirby:Kirby: 114 % (-)
43. :4sheik:Sheik: 113 % (fair 116 %, downB 117 %) (since 1.1.4; previously it was '114 % (fair or downB 117 %)')
43. :4zss:ZSS: 113 % (doublejump 114 %, downB 115 %) (since 1.1.4; previously it was '113 % (doublejump 114 %, downB 116 %)')
43. :4zelda:Zelda: 113 % (fair 114 %, doublejump 116 %)
43. :4falco:Falco: 113 % (doublejump 114 %)
47. :4pikachu:Pikachu: 112 % (-)
48. :4littlemac:Little Mac: 111 % (doublejump or sideB 115 %)
48. :4metaknight:MetaKnight: 111 % (doublejump 113 %) [uair doesn't help]
50. :rosalina:Rosalina: 110 % (doublejump 112 %, fair 112 %) (since 1.1.4; previously it was '111 % (doublejump 112 %, fair 113 %)')
50. :4olimar:Olimar: 110 % (fair 112 %)
50. :4fox:Fox: 110 % (fair 111 %)
50. :4gaw:GaW: 110 % (-)

Super Light
54. :4mewtwo:Mewtwo: 106 % (doublejump 109 %, fair or sideB 110 %) --------> 1.1.5 -> 107 (dj 110, fair/sideB 111)
55. :4jigglypuff:Jigglypuff: 105 % (-)

Highest: 142 (146)
Lowest: 105
Average: 120 (123)

Tested:
KO-% of the characters, if Luigi bthrows them (on the left edge of Battlefields Omega Stage (Wii U)).
No Rage (Training Mode). Opponent DIs (0°, to survive longer)!


Very Heavy
1. :4bowser:Bowser: 149 % (doublejump 155 %)
2. :4dedede:Dedede: 148 % (dair 149 %)
3. :4dk:DK: 144 % (uair 145 %) [with doublejump or upB he gets KO'd at 142!]
4. :4yoshi:Yoshi: 143 % (-)
5. :4wario2:Wario: 142 % (doublejump 143 %, fair 145 %)
6. :4charizard:Charizard: 140 % (doublejump or fair 145 %)

Heavy-Middle
7. :4rob:ROB: 139 % (-)
8. :4bowserjr:Bowser Jr.: 135 % (doublejump 138 %)
8. :4megaman:Megaman: 135 % (doublejump 137 %)
10. :4mario:Mario: 134 % (doublejump 137 %)
11. :4drmario:Dr.Mario: 133 % (fair 134 %, doublejump 137 %)
11. :4villager:Villager: 133 % (doublejump or sideB 136 %)
11. :4lucas:Lucas: 133 % (doublejump 135 %)
11. :4ness:Ness: 133 % (doublejump 134 %)
15. :4luigi:Luigi: 132 % (doublejump or fair 133 %)
16. :4pacman:Pacman: 131 % (doublejump 134 %, fair 136 %)
17. :4link:Link: 130 % (doublejump 134 %)
17. :4tlink:Toon Link: 130 % (doublejump 133 %)

Middle
19. :4ganondorf:Ganondorf: 129 % (doublejump 134 %)
19. :4lucario:Lucario: 129 % (fair 132 %, doublejump 133 %)
19. :4myfriends:Ike: 129 % (doublejump 132 %)
22. :4shulk:Shulk: 128 % (doublejump 131 %)
22. :4samus:Samus: 128 % (doublejump or uair 130 %, downB 131 %)
22. :4cloud:Cloud: 128 % (limit or doublejump 129 %)
25. :4ryu:Ryu: 127 % (doublejump 134 %, sideB 135 %)
25. :4diddy:Diddy: 127 % (doublejump 129 %)
27. :4sonic:Sonic: 126 % (doublejump 130 %, fair 131 %)
27. :4falcon:C.Falcon: 126 % (doublejump 130 %)
27. :4robinf:Robin: 126 % (doublejump 129 %)
30. :4duckhunt:Duck Hunt: 125 % (doublejump 128 %, fair 130 %)
30. :4corrinf:Corrin: 125 % (uair 128 %, doublejump 129 %)
30. :4wiifit:WiiFitTrainer: 125 % (doublejump 129 %)
30. :4pit:Pit: 125 % (doublejump or fair 127 %)
30. :4darkpit:Dark Pit: 125 % (doublejump or fair 127 %)
30. :4greninja:Greninja: 125 % (doublejump 126 %)

Middle-Light
36. :4kirby:Kirby: 124 % (-)
37. :4lucina:Lucina: 123 % (fair, upB or doublejump 127 %)
37. :4olimar:Olimar: 123 % (fair 124 %)
37. :4palutena:Palutena: 123 % (doublejump or fair 124 %)
40. :4marth:Marth: 122 % (fair or upB 126 %, doublejump 127 %)
40. :4feroy:Roy: 122 % (upB 125 %, doublejump 127 %)
40. :4peach:Peach: 122 % (doublejump or fair 123 %)
40. :4pikachu:Pikachu: 122 % (-)
44. :4metaknight:MetaKnight: 121 % (uair 122 %)
44. :4gaw:GaW: 121 % (-)

Lightweights
46. :4falco:Falco: 119 % (doublejump 120 %)
47. :4zelda:Zelda: 117 % (doublejump or fair 119 %)
48. :4littlemac:Little Mac: 116 % (doublejump or sideB 121 %)
49. :4sheik:Sheik: 115 % (fair 119 %, downB 120 %) (since 1.1.4; previously it was '117 % (fair 120 %, downB 121 %)')
49. :4zss:ZSS: 115 % (doublejump 118 %, downB 119 %) (since 1.1.4; previously it was '116 % (doublejump 118 %, downB 120 %)')
49. :4fox:Fox: 115 % (fair 116 %)
49. :4jigglypuff:Jigglypuff: 115 % (-)
53. :rosalina:Rosalina: 113 % (fair 115 %) (since 1.1.4; previously it was '114 % (fair 117 %)')
54. :4bayonetta:Bayonetta: 113 % (doublejump 115 %)

Mewtwo
55. :4mewtwo:Mewtwo: 108 % (doublejump 112 %, sideB 113 %, fair 115 %) -------> 1.1.5 -> 111 (dj/sideB 115, fair 117)

for 1.1.4:
Highest: 149 (155)
Lowest: 108 (115)
Average: 127 (129)


Old Mewtwo backthrow ranking:
[ NOTE: as of the probably 1.1.2 patch Mewtwos bthrow got stronger (unconfirmed, but is the only thing that makes sense), so the numbers are incorrect now (though it shouldn't make a difference for the ranking (except for new characters (= Cloud)), you could just assume a weaker throw was tested). I'll correct them later. ]

Tested:
KO-% of the characters, if Mewtwo Bthrows them (on the edge of Battlefields Omega Stage (Wii U)).
No Rage (Training Mode). Opponent DIs (0°/180°, to survive as long as possible)!


DK
1. DK: 151 % (-)

Very Heavy
2. Bowser: 149 % (with doublejump 156 %) | New: 141 % (with doublejump ?? %)
3. Dedede: 147 % (-)
4. Charizard: 141 % (with doublejump 145 %)
4. ROB: 141 % (-)
6. Samus: 140 % (-)

Heavy-Middle
7. Yoshi: 138 % (with doublejump 140 %)
8. Ganondorf: 137 % (with doublejump 142 %)
8. Bowser Jr.: 137 % (with doublejump 140 %)
8. Wario: 137 % (with doublejump 139 %)
11. Ike: 136 % (with doublejump 140 %)
12. C.Falcon: 135 % (with doublejump 138 %)
13. Link: 134 % (with doublejump 138 %)
13. Megaman: 134 % (with doublejump 137 %)
15. Shulk: 133 % (with doublejump 136 %)
15. Mario: 133 % (with doublejump 136 %)
17. Luigi: 132 % (-)
18. Ryu: 131 % (with doublejump 138 %)
18. Dr.Mario: 131 % (with doublejump 134 %)
20. Lucario: 130 % (with doublejump 135 %) [ New: 123 % (with doublejump ?? %) ]
20. WiiFitTrainer: 130 % (with doublejump 133 %)
20. Villager: 130 % (with doublejump or sideB 133 %)
20. Pit: 130 % (with doublejump 133 %)
20. Dark Pit: 130 % (with doublejump 133 %)
20. Pacman: 130 % (with doublejump 132 %)

Middle-Light
26. Robin: 129 % (with doublejump 134 %)
27. Roy: 128 % (with doublejump 131 %)
27. Lucas: 128 % (with doublejump 131 %)
27. Ness: 128 % (with doublejump 130 %)
27. Toon Link: 128 % (with doublejump 130 %)
27. Greninja: 128 % (with doublejump 129 %)
32. Sonic: 127 % (with doublejump 129 %)
33. Marth: 126 % (with doublejump 130 %)
33. Lucina: 126 % (with doublejump 130 %)
33. Duck Hunt: 126 % (with doublejump 129 %)
33. Diddy: 126 % (with doublejump 129 %)
33. Palutena: 126 % (with doublejump 128 %)
38. Peach: 125 % (with doublejump 127 %)
[ --. Cloud: 123 % (??) ]
39. Sheik: 121 % (with doublejump 122 %, with downB 125 %)
39. ZSS: 121 % (with doublejump 122 %, with downB 124 %)
39. Zelda: 121 % (with doublejump 123 %)
42. Falco: 120 % (with doublejump 121 %)
42. Pikachu: 120 % (-)
42. Kirby: 120 % (-)

Lightweights
45. Olimar: 119 % (-)
46. Rosalina: 118 % (with doublejump 120 %)
46. Little Mac: 118 % (with doublejump 122 %)
46. MetaKnight: 118 % (with doublejump 120 %)
46. GaW: 118 % (-)
46. Fox: 118 % (-)
51. Jigglypuff: 111 % (with doublejump 112 %)
52. Mewtwo: 110 % (with doublejump or sideB 116 %)
 
Last edited:

Zapp Branniglenn

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
1,707
Location
Santa Ana, CA
Never really understood the non linearity between horizontal and vertical KO%s. It would be easy if we could say heavy weighted characters live longer, end of story. But Bowser only seems to live the longest in the case of horizontal moves. And as you claim, he needs to burn a double jump to keep himself off the blast zone in those extreme scenarios. Just what is it about Dedede and DK that afford them extra survivability regarding vertical attacks?
 

warriorman222

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
983
Location
Meanwhile in Canada...
3DS FC
3866-8698-4754
Never really understood the non linearity between horizontal and vertical KO%s. It would be easy if we could say heavy weighted characters live longer, end of story. But Bowser only seems to live the longest in the case of horizontal moves. And as you claim, he needs to burn a double jump to keep himself off the blast zone in those extreme scenarios. Just what is it about Dedede and DK that afford them extra survivability regarding vertical attacks?
Dedede has the 2nd highest fallspeed in the game, and DK's is significantly higher than Bowser's.
 

Zapp Branniglenn

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
1,707
Location
Santa Ana, CA
Dedede has the 2nd highest fallspeed in the game, and DK's is significantly higher than Bowser's.
Do you mean that falling speed has an effect on vertical momentum of being attacked? Does it take effect while still in hitstun as well, or as soon as hitstun wears off? Either way, I never looked at it this way.
 

warriorman222

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
983
Location
Meanwhile in Canada...
3DS FC
3866-8698-4754
Do you mean that falling speed has an effect on vertical momentum of being attacked? Does it take effect while still in hitstun as well, or as soon as hitstun wears off? Either way, I never looked at it this way.
Yup. That's why for example, Mario's utilt combo starts and ends the latest on Dedede, not Bowser. it's also why only Shield Shulk survives Rest longer than D3.
 

kenniky

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
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kenniky
3DS FC
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No Monado Art or Lightweight stuff?
 

erico9001

You must find your own path to the future.
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
1,670
Location
Wiscooonsin
NNID
Erico9001
3DS FC
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Here you have a survival ranking of the characters. Vertically and horizontally. It incorporates DI and other survival tactics (doublejump etc.), so you can see who really lives longer than others (the game weight rankings don't show this really accurately).

As you'll see there will be characters with the same rank/KO-%. This doesn't mean they are completely the same. With weaker moves there could likely be a small difference over time.
The % might also not be 100 % accurate for all characters. It isn't too easy DIing perfectly 0/180° all the time and it seems you can't buffer anything out of hitstun so for the horizontal ranking with momentumcancel I'm likely not pressing an action to survive as soon as possible for some characters. This means the % could be +-1, so it shouldn't be too much of a difference.
The horizontal ranking also seems to change over time a little. Bowser and DK KO Jigglypuff sooner than Mewtwo with their fsmashes without DI, but at higher % Mewtwo seems to die earlier. For the ranking I'm also not counting the momentumcancel action, because you might not even be able to use it if a move has enough hitstun, etc...
But you can see how you could survive longer with some characters (there might be a few moves I'm not using for some, because I don't know about their momentumcancelling propery). "(-)" means I always died at the same % no matter what I tried (some can even doublejump or do other moves, but don't stop enough momentum with them, while some are still in hitstun). The DI method should be pretty accurate for these moves, but others with different trajectories might require a little diagonal DI to survive longer.

The rankings have their "cuts" every 10 % (0-9 is lower, 10-19 is the next one, etc.).

But without further ado, here they are:

Vertical Ranking:

Tested:
KO-% of the characters, if Mewtwo Uthrows them (on Omega Stage (Wii U)).
No Rage (Training Mode). Opponent DIs (0°/180°, to survive as long as possible)!


Dedede
1. Dedede: 166 %

DK
2. DK: 156 %

Very Heavy
3. Bowser: 149 %
4. Captain Falcon: 148 %
5. Ganondorf: 147 %
5. Ike: 147 %
7. Megaman: 145 %
7. Bowser Jr.: 145 %
9. Link: 142 %
10. Lucario: 141 %
11. Wario: 140 %
11. Shulk: 140 %
11. ROB: 140 %

Heavy-Middle
14. Samus: 139 %
14. Charizard: 139 %
16. Duck Hunt: 137 %
17. Diddy: 136 %
18. Mario: 135 %
18. Dr.Mario: 135 %
18. Pit: 135 %
18. Dark Pit: 135 %
22. Yoshi: 134 %
22. Marth: 134 %
22. Lucina: 134 %
22. Robin: 134 %
22. Little Mac: 134 %
27. Sonic: 132 %
28. Villager: 131 %

Middle-Light
29. Pacman: 129 %
29. Luigi: 129 %
31. Ness: 128 %
31. WiiFitTrainer: 128 %
33. ZSS: 127 %
34. Toon Link: 126 %
34. Falco: 126 %
34. Greninja: 126 %
37. Palutena: 125 %
38. Zelda: 124 %
39. Sheik: 123 %
39. Peach: 123 %
41. Fox: 122 %
42. MetaKnight: 121 %
43. Olimar: 120 %

Lightweights
44. Pikachu: 119 %
45. Rosalina: 117 %
45. Mewtwo: 117 %
45. Kirby: 117 %
48. GaW: 111 %

Jigglypuff
49. Jigglypuff: 107 %


Horizontal Ranking:

Tested:
KO-% of the characters, if Mewtwo Bthrows them (on the edge of an Omega Stage (Wii U)).
No Rage (Training Mode). Opponent DIs (0°/180°, to survive as long as possible)!


DK
1. DK: 151 % (-)

Very Heavy
2. Bowser: 149 % (with doublejump 156 %)
3. Dedede: 147 % (-)
4. Charizard: 141 % (with doublejump 145 %)
4. ROB: 141 % (-)
6. Samus: 140 % (-)

Heavy-Middle
7. Yoshi: 138 % (with doublejump 140 %)
8. Ganondorf: 137 % (with doublejump 142 %)
8. Bowser Jr.: 137 % (with doublejump 140 %)
8. Wario: 137 % (with doublejump 139 %)
11. Ike: 136 % (with doublejump 140 %)
12. C.Falcon: 135 % (with doublejump 138 %)
13. Link: 134 % (with doublejump 138 %)
13. Megaman: 134 % (with doublejump 137 %)
15. Shulk: 133 % (with doublejump 136 %)
15. Mario: 133 % (with doublejump 136 %)
17. Luigi: 132 % (-)
18. Dr.Mario: 131 % (with doublejump 134 %)
19. Lucario: 130 % (with doublejump 135 %)
19. WiiFitTrainer: 130 % (with doublejump 133 %)
19. Villager: 130 % (with doublejump or sideB 133 %)
19. Pit: 130 % (with doublejump 133 %)
19. Dark Pit: 130 % (with doublejump 133 %)
19. Pacman: 130 % (with doublejump 132 %)

Middle-Light
25. Robin: 129 % (with doublejump 134 %)
26. Ness: 128 % (with doublejump 130 %)
26. Toon Link: 128 % (with doublejump 130 %)
26. Greninja: 128 % (-)
29. Sonic: 127 % (with doublejump 129 %)
30. Marth: 126 % (with doublejump 130 %)
30. Lucina: 126 % (with doublejump 130 %)
30. Duck Hunt: 126 % (with doublejump 129 %)
30. Diddy: 126 % (with doublejump 129 %)
30. Palutena: 126 % (with doublejump 128 %)
35. Peach: 125 % (with doublejump 127 %)
36. Sheik: 121 % (with doublejump 122 %, with downB 125 %)
37. ZSS: 121 % (with doublejump 122 %, with downB 124 %)
37. Zelda: 121 % (with doublejump 123 %)
39. Falco: 120 % (with doublejump 121 %)
39. Pikachu: 120 % (-)
39. Kirby: 120 % (-)

Lightweights
42. Olimar: 119 % (-)
43. Rosalina: 118 % (with doublejump 120 %)
43. Little Mac: 118 % (with doublejump 122 %)
43. MetaKnight: 118 % (with doublejump 120 %)
43. GaW: 118 % (-)
43. Fox: 118 % (-)
48. Jigglypuff: 110 % (with doublejump 111 %)

Mewtwo
49. Mewtwo: 109 % (with doublejump 116 %)
Nice. I found it hard to believe Shulk dies so late vertically, but that's true! However, Shulk actually dies at 141% (rank 10), not 140% (rank 11) :p. I'm going to add a little bit to this. Mewtwo U-throw, DI, etc etc...
Monado Jump Shulk dies at 143%.
Monado Speed Shulk dies at 141%.
Monado Shield Shulk dies at 225%.
Monado Buster Shulk dies at 139%.
Monado Smash Shulk dies at 117%.

For horizontal, Shulk does indeed die at 133% like you say.
Monado Jump Shulk dies at 131% (132% with double jump).
Monado Speed Shulk dies at 133% (136% with double jump).
Monado Shield Shulk dies at 212% (215% with double jump).
Monado Buster Shulk dies at 132% (134% with double jump).
Monado Smash Shulk dies at 110% (133% with double jump).
 

Pikabunz

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@ Luigi player Luigi player Was there a specific omega stage you were testing these on? I think some of them might have a slightly bigger blast zone than others. I know DK survives at 156% on Delfino, but on another omega he'll die at 156%.
 

Luigi player

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@ Luigi player Luigi player Was there a specific omega stage you were testing these on? I think some of them might have a slightly bigger blast zone than others. I know DK survives at 156% on Delfino, but on another omega he'll die at 156%.
I just recently learned that omegas differ with their vertical blastzone a little bit... I've done all my tests on Battlefields Omega. I'll mention it in the OP, thanks for pointing that out.
 
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Goesasu

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Would love some decesive and hyper shield monado arts on shulks.
Both of them make shulk heavier than regular Marts.
 

Luigi player

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The % might also not be 100 % accurate for all characters. It isn't too easy DIing perfectly 0/180° all the time and it seems you can't buffer anything out of hitstun so for the horizontal ranking with momentumcancel I'm likely not pressing an action to survive as soon as possible for some characters. This means the % could be +-1, so it shouldn't be too much of a difference.
So, small update:

I wanted to test something with Mewtwo and while I was doing that I noticed a few things. Like I said the % probably aren't 100 % correct for some and I've fixed 2 of them:

Horizontal ranking before:
Jiggs dies at 110 % (with doublejump 111)
Mewtwo dies at 109 % (with doublejump 116)

Now:
Jiggs dies at 111 % (with doublejump 112)
Mewtwo dies at 110 % (with doublejump 116)

This is just a small change, but now the "Mewtwo tier" doesn't exist anymore. I've tested Mr. G&W as well, but got the same results as before, and since I didn't initially wanted to test all of them again I stopped after that.

My test was if sideB helped Mewtwo to survive longer / cancel momentum, and the result was: yes, it does. Just like the doublejump. It will die at 116 and not earlier if it uses sideB. I've also tested if you need the "jump" from sideB for it to work - you do not, which is good.

@ Goesasu Goesasu I don't have these customs, so even if I wanted to I couldn't test it.
 
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Pikabunz

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You probably got a different death percent because you got a different knockback animation. The knockback where your character is spinning can kill them 1% earlier.
 

Luigi player

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You probably got a different death percent because you got a different knockback animation. The knockback where your character is spinning can kill them 1% earlier.
Does the spinning happen randomly (I had the exact same % and throws should always be the same)? It's easy to not hold the stick on the gamepad 100% correctly. From my feeling I'd say it's the angle +-3 which could still give the best vectoring, but anyhthing more will change that up.
 

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Do you not use the gamecube controller for this? It's really easy to hold straight left or right with it. The spinning seems random to me, but it won't always kill you 1% earlier. When I mean it doesn't always kill you, I mean it depends on the attack used on you and maybe the character. When it does kill you earlier, it will do it with 100% consistency.
 

Trifroze

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I'm sure the percents would look a lot different if smashes were used instead of throws. There's no way Falcon survives close to as long as Bowser vertically in most scenarios.
 

Luigi player

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I'm sure the percents would look a lot different if smashes were used instead of throws. There's no way Falcon survives close to as long as Bowser vertically in most scenarios.
If the difference is only 1 % at such high % it would make sense if there was either 0 or 1 % difference if they were lower.
Just think about Melee. Bowser was the heaviest there as well, but many "fastfallers" outlived him vertically.
I've also noticed myself while using him that Bowser doesn't survive as long vertically as one'd think.
 
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Pikabunz

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I'm sure the percents would look a lot different if smashes were used instead of throws. There's no way Falcon survives close to as long as Bowser vertically in most scenarios.
You're right. I just did some tests on this.

Fox upsmash
Bowser dies at 122%
Falcon dies at 115%

G&W upsmash
Bowser dies at 112%
Falcon dies at 106%

Jigglypuff rest
They both die at 62%

I don't really get it.
 

Trifroze

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May have figured it out but then again not sure. Gravity might not play a part in (certain) throws. Falcon and Yoshi are the same weight and Falcon dies from fsmashes 2-3% earlier than Yoshi does since he has much higher gravity, but from Ness' back throw Yoshi dies 2% earlier. Does fall speed affect horizontal/diagonal knockback? There's no reason why Yoshi with lesser gravity should die earlier from a horizontal throw unless gravity doesn't increase knockback on throws but fall speed decreases it, but as tested Falcon dies from Mewtwo's back throw earlier than Yoshi. I tested Sonic's back throw as well, Falcon dies at 155% and Yoshi at 149%, again contradicting this. My only conclusion is that some horizontal throws take gravity and/or fall speed into account while some don't.

Also I tested Bowser and Falcon with Marth's uthrow, Bowser dies at 184% while Falcon dies at 185%. Perhaps fall speed "counters" knockback scaling more than weight does somehow.
 
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san.

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Thought I posted this earlier.

Might be the discrepancy with how base and growth knockback interacts with each other? Throws have high base knockback, and character internals like gravity greatly influence how far characters are launched. This may affect the more vertical/diagonal attacks a lot more.
 
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Luigi player

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I just tested this with Greninja myself, he can survive 1% longer with his double jump.
Alright, thanks! I've changed it in the OP. Tested myself again too.
Just keep this in mind:
The % might also not be 100 % accurate for all characters. It isn't too easy DIing perfectly 0/180° all the time and it seems you can't buffer anything out of hitstun so for the horizontal ranking with momentumcancel I'm likely not pressing an action to survive as soon as possible for some characters. This means the % could be +-1, so it shouldn't be too much of a difference.
So it's not 100 % accurate, more like ~95 %. Just making sure people know. :p But I did test everyone ~2-5 times so it's not like I didn't try to have accurate numbers.

Anyway, I've added Roy, Ryu and Lucas as well.
 
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Masonomace

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I didn't purchase the Mewtwo DLC so I can't help contribute anything involving Monado Arts vs Mewtwo's B-Throw & U-Throw, but like FullMoon said about doublejumping to survive 1% longer. . .

I tested Ganon Punch near the ledge against Shield Shulk by having him ledge-climb onto the stage & stood there D-taunting while holding a direction to Vector / DI for survival purposes. Basically doublejumping while holding towards the stage to drift also saved Shield Shulk by 1% compared to when he didn't doublejump, but I didn't write down the percents for each direction.

Sorry again for not being able to help with this.:urg:
 
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Masonomace

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@ erico9001 erico9001 Nice post from earlier, but now that I have Mewtwo for those recent locals, I gave this testing a shot. Here are my results:

Uthrow
Vanilla & Speed: 140%
Jump: 144%
Shield: 224%
Buster: 138%
Smash: 121%

The 1% difference between our Vanilla and Speed, Jump, Shield, & Buster is alright, but I'm curious about our percentage difference for Monado Smash.

Bthrow
@ Luigi player Luigi player I have two questions:
  1. In your OP, you say on the ledge, so I presume that you back rolled to the very end of the ledge. If not, did you ledge-climb up onto the stage and Bthrow from there? The positioning is quite crucial for KO percentages surprisingly.
  2. When I look at yours and Eric's numbers for Vanilla Shulk, you both say 133%, but when I'm testing the KO percentages by having Mewtwo back roll towards the very end of the ledge, I get 125% explained below. Did you guys just add on the 10% damage from Bthrow, or is that the number you started at before performing Bthrow near the ledge?
Anyway, back to my results:
Vanilla: 125% (with doublejump, 127%)
Jump: 121% (with doublejump, 125%)
Speed: 125% (with doublejump, 127%)
Shield: 200% (with doublejump, 202%)
Buster: 122% (with doublejump, 126%)
Smash: 107% (with doublejump, 110%)

Now what I found really confusing was that our numbers are way off from each other. But aside from that, I noticed something interesting in regards to what Luigi player and @ Pikabunz Pikabunz were mentioning about reeling / spinning in a tornado motion when the character is launched. Usually what I did for Mewtwo Bthrow was ready the direction to be held before being thrown, but if I prepare the proper direction on my joystick as Mewtwo's Bthrow animation is going, Shulk wouldn't get launched and die but rather he'd be reeling / spinning in a torpedo motion and I survive longer than had I just held my joystick towards the stage before being thrown.

That was educational.

Edit: RosaLuma can live without using doublejump by using her F-air instead. Click this green for the source.
Would love some decesive and hyper shield monado arts on shulks.
Both of them make shulk heavier than regular Marts.
I'll do this tomorrow.:shades:
 
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erico9001

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Nice. I found it hard to believe Shulk dies so late vertically, but that's true! However, Shulk actually dies at 141% (rank 10), not 140% (rank 11) :p. I'm going to add a little bit to this. Mewtwo U-throw, DI, etc etc...
Monado Jump Shulk dies at 143%.
Monado Speed Shulk dies at 141%.
Monado Shield Shulk dies at 225%.
Monado Buster Shulk dies at 139%.
Monado Smash Shulk dies at 117%.

For horizontal, Shulk does indeed die at 133% like you say.
Monado Jump Shulk dies at 131% (132% with double jump).
Monado Speed Shulk dies at 133% (136% with double jump).
Monado Shield Shulk dies at 212% (215% with double jump).
Monado Buster Shulk dies at 132% (134% with double jump).
Monado Smash Shulk dies at 110% (133% with double jump).
@ erico9001 erico9001 Nice post from earlier, but now that I have Mewtwo for those recent locals, I gave this testing a shot. Here are my results:

Uthrow
Vanilla & Speed: 140%
Jump: 144%
Shield: 224%
Buster: 138%
Smash: 121%

The 1% difference between our Vanilla and Speed, Jump, Shield, & Buster is alright, but I'm curious about our percentage difference for Monado Smash.

Bthrow
@ Luigi player Luigi player I have two questions:
  1. In your OP, you say on the ledge, so I presume that you back rolled to the very end of the ledge. If not, did you ledge-climb up onto the stage and Bthrow from there? The positioning is quite crucial for KO percentages surprisingly.
  2. When I look at yours and Eric's numbers for Vanilla Shulk, you both say 133%, but when I'm testing the KO percentages by having Mewtwo back roll towards the very end of the ledge, I get 125% explained below. Did you guys just add on the 10% damage from Bthrow, or is that the number you started at before performing Bthrow near the ledge?
Anyway, back to my results:
Vanilla: 125% (with doublejump, 127%)
Jump: 121% (with doublejump, 125%)
Speed: 125% (with doublejump, 127%)
Shield: 200% (with doublejump, 202%)
Buster: 122% (with doublejump, 126%)
Smash: 107% (with doublejump, 110%)

Now what I found really confusing was that our numbers are way off from each other. But aside from that, I noticed something interesting in regards to what Luigi player and @ Pikabunz Pikabunz were mentioning about reeling / spinning in a tornado motion when the character is launched. Usually what I did for Mewtwo Bthrow was ready the direction to be held before being thrown, but if I prepare the proper direction on my joystick as Mewtwo's Bthrow animation is going, Shulk wouldn't get launched and die but rather he'd be reeling / spinning in a torpedo motion and I survive longer than had I just held my joystick towards the stage before being thrown.

That was educational.

Edit: RosaLuma can live without using doublejump by using her F-air instead. Click this green for the source.

I'll do this tomorrow.:shades:
??? I'm really confused Mace. Can you elaborate on things like what stage you are using and what exactly you're doing with your joystick?
 

Masonomace

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??? I'm really confused Mace. Can you elaborate on things like what stage you are using and what exactly you're doing with your joystick?
Omega Battlefield like Luigi player used for his OP.

At first with the joystick, I was just holding towards the stage before Mewtwo's Bthrow commenced. But after some testing, I learned that if I prepare holding my joystick towards the stage right as Mewtwo's swinging his arms to Bthrow, there's a possibility that Shulk won't be flinching like the usual animation but instead reeling in a torpedo fashion. If this reeling torpedo animation happens during your launch from Mewtwo's Bthrow, you survive slightly longer.

I have to leave atm, so I'll elaborate more with you another time.

EDIT: @ Goesasu Goesasu Here's my results for Mewtwo's Uthrow using Decisive and Hyper arts. You're more than welcome to doublecheck the percentages.

Uthrow
Decisive Jump: 148%
Decisive Speed: 139%
Decisive Shield: 265%

Hyper Jump: 151%
Hyper Speed: 137%
Hyper Shield: 317%
Hyper Buster: 136%
Hyper Smash: 77%
 
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Luigi player

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A little update:

Added the following note to the OP:
Note: sometimes when characters are thrown they enter a spinning animation, which seems to give them a little different trajectory and they can die earlier or survive longer (depending on the trajectory of the move used to hit them away)
this "spinning" seems to occur more often the higher the % of the hit character are(?)

Also, I tried to test some more right now and found out I couldn't survive as long as my numbers would indicate.

Did the same thing as always. Mewtwo on the left side of Omega BF on Wii U where I throw an opponent to the left with Bthrow, in training mode.

With Sheik for example I should be able to survive until 120 % with just DI / vectoring. But I couldn't. I couldn't even live at 115 %, not even with a doublejump.
I tried DK too, and he also dies earlier.

I tried mixing DI with vectoring to live longer than with just vectoring and I could live with DK at like 144 %, which was more than if I just held 0° (horizontally back to the stage), in which case DK survives only till like 141 or something. (instead of my previous survivalnumber 150 [151 is where he would be KOd])

Now what about vertical kills? I tried to see if anything changed for them, but they're still the same (tested Samus and Sheik).

They must've changed something during these patches.. Mewtwos backthrow maybe? Or generally hitstun (since it doesn't influence vertical kills, but probably not?), ...

I've just dug up some old bthrow kill% tests of mine and they're still the same now as they were before (only tested Sonic).
It seems like Mewtwos backthrow must've gotten stronger / a different trajectory from one of the latest patches.

Looking at the patchnotes threads there isn't anything mentioned in the last 2 (1.1.1 and 1.1.0) [I also followed all patchthreads and never saw any M2 bthrow change], so maybe the change got by unnoticed, idk. Pretty sure I didn't test everything wrong since I still know how exactly I tested it and remember testing it like this.
 
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Luigi player

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So, I wanted to add Cloud and remembered that the horizontal (bthrow) KO-% are different now...

The vertical KO-% list should still be the same, except for one case (or dunno if there are still missing changes to 1.1.3):

Lucario now lives up to 143 % [dies at 144], instead of 140 % [died at 141] like he previously did, due to increased fallspeed.
Cloud is pretty heavy vertically, I added him to the list.

As for the horizontal rankings, I have to redo everyone again, which I'll do later today (european time), since I don't have time for all that testing right now.
 
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Masonomace

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Cloud's Limit Break aura increases his fall speed/gravity, so there's that to consider for his vertical & horizontal kill percents. Maybe I could help out with some of it?

An issue I'd see happening is whether the character thrown starts reeling or not, since for reasons that character reeling will have a slightly easier chance to survive the throw tampering with the kill percentages.
 

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Cloud's Limit Break aura increases his fall speed/gravity, so there's that to consider for his vertical & horizontal kill percents. Maybe I could help out with some of it?
Without Limit, Mario's Up-Tilt kills Cloud on this custom stage at 238%. With Limit, it kills at 242%. It's... not really worth cataloguing tbh.
 
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Luigi player

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Without Limit, Mario's Up-Tilt kills Cloud on this custom stage at 238%. With Limit, it kills at 242%. It's... not really worth cataloguing tbh.
It actually did make a difference even at lower %.

Cloud: 143 % (147 % with fully charged limit)
__________


Alright so... horizontally, moves will have different results depending on the angle the move hits at I guess. Which makes things more complicated concerning the survival of the characters.

For example I tested:

- Mewtwos bthrow:
DK dies at 142 %, Bowser at 141 % (with doublejump: 146 %)​
- With Luigis bthrow I get these results:
DK dies at 143 %, Bowser dies at 149 % (with doublejump: 155 %)
Why is it like that? I have no idea besides guessing the angle a move hits towards matters a lot? Then again Mewtwos bthrow has 47 and Luigis has 45, so it isn't really that big of a difference.

Oh well, I still wanted to see more to see any kind of lead that shows why there are such differences... though it didn't help finding out anything for that, but the results are still pretty interesting.

Tested:
KO-% of the characters, if Luigi bthrows them (on the left edge of Battlefields Omega Stage (Wii U)).
No Rage (Training Mode). Opponent DIs (0°, to survive longer)!


Very Heavy
1. Bowser: 149 % (with doublejump 155 %)
2. Dedede: 148 % (with dair 149 %)
3. DK: 144 % (with uair 145 %) [with doublejump or upB he gets KO'd at 142!]
4. Yoshi: 143 % (-)
5. Wario: 142 % (with doublejump 143 %, with fair 145 %)
6. Charizard: 140 % (with doublejump or fair 145 %)

Heavy-Middle
7. ROB: 139 % (-)
8. Bowser Jr.: 135 % (with doublejump 138 %)
8. Megaman: 135 % (with doublejump 137 %)
10. Mario: 134 % (with doublejump 137 %)
11. Dr.Mario: 133 % (with fair 134 %, with doublejump 137 %)
11. Villager: 133 % (with doublejump or sideB 136 %)
11. Lucas: 133 % (with doublejump 135 %)
11. Ness: 133 % (with doublejump 134 %)
15. Luigi: 132 % (with doublejump or fair 133 %)
16. Pacman: 131 % (with doublejump 134 %, with fair 136 %)
17. Link: 130 % (with doublejump 134 %)
17. Toon Link: 130 % (with doublejump 133 %)

Middle
19. Ganondorf: 129 % (with doublejump 134 %)
19. Lucario: 129 % (with fair 132 %, with doublejump 133 %)
19. Ike: 129 % (with doublejump 132 %)
22. Shulk: 128 % (with doublejump 131 %)
22. Samus: 128 % (with doublejump or uair 130 %, with downB 131 %)
22. Cloud: 128 % (with limit or doublejump 129 %)
25. Ryu: 127 % (with doublejump 134 %, with sideB 135 %)
25. Diddy: 127 % (with doublejump 129 %)
27. Sonic: 126 % (with doublejump 130 %, with fair 131)
27. C.Falcon: 126 % (with doublejump 130 %)
27. Robin: 126 % (with doublejump 129 %)
30. Duck Hunt: 125 % (with doublejump 128 %, with fair 130 %)
30. WiiFitTrainer: 125 % (with doublejump 129 %)
30. Pit: 125 % (with doublejump or fair 127 %)
30. Dark Pit: 125 % (with doublejump or fair 127 %)
30. Greninja: 125 % (with doublejump 126 %)

Middle-Light
35. Kirby: 124 % (-)
36. Lucina: 123 % (with fair, upB or doublejump 127 %)
36. Olimar: 123 % (with fair 124 %)
36. Palutena: 123 % (with doublejump or fair 124 %)
39. Marth: 122 % (with fair or upB 126 %, with doublejump 127 %)
39. Roy: 122 % (with upB 125 %, with doublejump 127 %)
39. Peach: 122 % (with doublejump or fair 123 %)
39. Pikachu: 122 % (-)
43. MetaKnight: 121 % (with uair 122 %)
43. GaW: 121 % (-)

Lightweights
45. Falco: 119 % (with doublejump 120 %)
46. Sheik: 117 % (with fair 120 %, with downB 121 %)
46. Zelda: 117 % (with doublejump or fair 119 %)
48. Little Mac: 116 % (with doublejump or sideB 121 %)
48. ZSS: 116 % (with doublejump 118 %, with downB 120 %)
50. Fox: 115 % (with fair 116 %)
50. Jigglypuff: 115 % (-)
52. Rosalina: 114 % (with fair 117 %)

Mewtwo
53. Mewtwo: 108 % (with doublejump 112 %, with sideB 113 %, with fair 115 %)

(average % (without moves to help): 127.4)


As you can see, some heavy characters who would usually live longer are pretty far down.
I also found out a few new tricks for surviving while playing around with hurtbox shifting.
The most interesting ones are probably:
2. Dedede: 148 % (with dair 149 %)
21. Samus: 128 % (with doublejump 130 %, with downB 131 %)
42. MetaKnight: 121 % (with uair 122 %)​
But be sure to check your character as well, since there are a few new aerials I tested and compared to doublejump, etc.
Keep in mind it might not always work like that, though. Thanks for some hurtbox shifting stuff to this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/hurtbox-shifting-instant-momentum-cancel.423544/

Since Luigis bthrow and Mewtwos bthrow bring such different results I really want to test Mewtwos bthrow again (while also trying out the new momentum cancels / hurtbox shifting), so I'll probably do that in the near future to compare them.

Of course that doesn't cover every move / angle moves can hit, so don't except this to be 100 % accurate for all of them.
The Mewtwo bthrow data will probably show nicely how different all of these numbers are so stay tuned (in the meantime you can look at the previous Mewtwo bthrow data which is currently still in the OP in a spoiler).

I really wasn't sure what to do with these different results and if it's even worth doing all of this since it changes for other moves. It actually took me about 5 hours pretty much nonstop testing to complete Luigis bthrow list, but I learned quite a bit during the process so it was really interesting for me.

I hope you'll enjoy it as well and keep the data in mind. Sometimes hitting opponents to the sides has such different results that it won't always be the best choice to try to KO your opponent sideways.

Edit:

Mewtwos list:

Tested:
KO-% of the characters, if Mewtwo Bthrows them (on the left edge of Battlefields Omega Stage (Wii U)).
No Rage (Training Mode). Opponent DIs (180°, to survive longer)!


Super Heavy
1. DK: 142 % (-) [uair doesn't help | he gets KO'd at 141 with doublejump or upB]
2. Bowser: 141 % (with doublejump 146 %)

Very Heavy
3. Dedede: 137 % (with dair 139 %)
4. ROB: 133 % (-)
5. Charizard: 131 % (with fair 134 %, with doublejump 136 %)
5. Yoshi: 131 % (-)

Heavy-Middle
7. Ganondorf: 129 % (with doublejump 134 %)
7. Samus: 129 % (with doublejump or uair 131 %, with downB 132 %)
7. Wario: 129 % (with doublejump 130 %, with fair 131 %)
10. Bowser Jr.: 128 % (with doublejump 131 %)
10. Ike: 128 % (with doublejump 130 %)
12. C.Falcon: 126 % (with doublejump 130 %)
12. Link: 126 % (with doublejump 130 %)
12. Megaman: 126 % (with doublejump 129 %)
15. Mario: 125 % (with doublejump 127 %)

Middle-Light
16. Shulk: 124 % (with doublejump 127 %)
16. Dr.Mario: 124 % (with doublejump 126 %) [fair doesn't help]
16. Luigi: 124 % (with doublejump or fair 125 %)
16. Cloud: 124 % (with doublejump 125 %) [limit doesn't help]
20. Ryu: 123 % (with doublejump 129 %, with sideB 130 %)
20. Lucario: 123 % (with fair 125 %, with doublejump 127 %)
22. Pacman: 122 % (with doublejump 124 %, with fair 127 %)
22. Robin: 122 % (with doublejump 126 %)
22. Villager: 122 % (with doublejump or sideB 124 %)
25. WiiFitTrainer: 121 % (with doublejump 124 %)
25. Pit: 121 % (with doublejump or fair 124 %)
25. Dark Pit: 121 % (with doublejump or fair 124 %)
28. Roy: 120 % (with upB 122 %, with doublejump 124 %)
28. Lucas: 120 % (with doublejump 123 %)
28. Ness: 120 % (with fair 121 %, with doublejump 122 %)
28. Toon Link: 120 % (with doublejump 121 %)
28. Greninja: 120 % (-)

Lightweights
33. Sonic: 119 % (with doublejump 121 %, with fair 122 %)
33. Marth: 119 % (with upB 121 %, with doublejump or fair 122 %)
33. Lucina: 119 % (with doublejump, fair or upB 121 %)
36. Duck Hunt: 118 % (with doublejump 121 %, with fair 122 %)
36. Palutena: 118 % (with fair 119 %, with doublejump 120 %)
36. Diddy: 118 % (with doublejump 119 %)
39. Peach: 117 % (with doublejump or fair 119 %)
40. Sheik: 114 % (with fair or downB 117 %) [doublejump doesn't help]
40. Kirby: 114 % (-)
42. ZSS: 113 % (with doublejump 114 %, with downB 116 %)
42. Zelda: 113 % (with fair 114 %, with doublejump 116 %)
42. Falco: 113 % (with doublejump 114 %)
45. Pikachu: 112 % (-)
46. Little Mac: 111 % (with doublejump or sideB 115 %)
46. Rosalina: 111 % (with doublejump 112 %, with fair 113 %)
46. MetaKnight: 111 % (with doublejump 113 %) [uair doesn't help]
49. Olimar: 110 % (with fair 112 %)
49. Fox: 110 % (with fair 111 %)
49. GaW: 110 % (-)

Super Light
52. Mewtwo: 106 % (with doublejump 109 %, with fair or sideB 110 %)
53. Jigglypuff: 105 % (-)
 
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Luigi player

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Messages
4,106
Location
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New %s with patch 1.1.4:

Horizontal - M2 bthrow edge omega BF: (compare to list in my previous post)

:4corrin::4corrinf:Corrin: dies at 122 % (with doublejump 125)
:4bayonetta:Bayonetta: dies at 114 % (with doublejump 116)

:4sheik:Sheik: 114 % (with fair or downB 117 %) [doublejump doesn't help]
-> 113 % (fair 116 %, downB still 117 %)​
:4zss:ZSS: 113 % (with doublejump 114 %, with downB 116 %)
-> still 113 % (doublejump still 114 %, downB 115 %)​
:rosalina:Rosalina: 111 % (with doublejump 112 %, with fair 113 %)
-> 110 % (doublejump still 112 %, fair 112 %)​
:4ganondorf: still same
:4sonic: still same
:4kirby: still same


Horizontal - Luigi bthrow edge omega BF: (compare to list in my previous post)

:4corrin::4corrinf:Corrin: dies at 125 % (with doublejump 129)
:4bayonetta:Bayonetta: dies at 113 % (with doublejump 115)

:4sheik:Sheik: 117 % (with fair 120 %, with downB 121 %)
-> 115 % (fair 119 %, downB 120 %)​
:4zss:ZSS: 116 % (with doublejump 118 %, with downB 120 %)
-> 115 % (doublejump still 118 %, downB 119 %)​
:rosalina:Rosalina: 114 % (with fair 117 %)
-> 113 % (fair 115 %)​
:4ganondorf: still same
:4sonic: still same
:4kirby: still same


Vertical - M2 uthrow on omega BF: (compare to list in the OP)

:4corrin::4corrinf:Corrin: dies at 139 % (shares place 15 with others)
:4bayonetta:Bayonetta: dies at 131 %

:4zss:ZSS: 127 % -> 126 %
:4sheik:Sheik: 123 % -> 122 %
:rosalina:Rosalina: 117 % -> 116 %
:4ganondorf: Ganondorf: 147 -> 148
:4sonic: Sonic: 132 -> 131
:4kirby: Kirby: 117 -> 118

_________________

Sheik, ZSS and Rosalina have -1 weight point in the new patch. As one could probably imagine it doesn't have too big of an effect, but it is a bit of a difference (the higher the % are you'd test with when they'd get KO'd the bigger the difference would be).

I'll add this to the OP later and fix some writings.

Edit:

Tested Kirby, Ganondorf and Sonic as well, since they got weight-changes too!
 
Last edited:

Luigi player

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Messages
4,106
Location
Austria
Alright, here's the update for version 1.1.5: (gonna finish Luigis bthrow and update the OP later)

:4mewtwo:Mewtwo: (weight increase)
uthrow 117 ---> 119
m2 bthrow 106 (dj 109, fair/sideB 110) ---> 107 (dj 110, fair/sideB 111)
luigi bthrow 108 (dj 112, sideB 113, fair 115) ---> 111 (dj/sideB 115, fair 117)

:4bowser:Bowser: (weight increase & airspeed increase)
uthrow 149 ---> 150
m2 bthrow 141 (dj 146) ---> 143 (dj 148)
luigi bthrow -

:4sheik:Sheik: (weight decrease)
uthrow 122 ---> 120
m2 bthrow 113 (fair 116, downB 117) ---> 111 (fair 114, downB 115)
luigi bthrow -

:4charizard:Charizard: (weight increase & airspeed increase)
uthrow 139 ---> still 139
m2 bthrow 131 (fair 134, dj 136) ---> 132 (fair 135, dj still 136)
luigi bthrow -

:4samus:Samus: (airspeed, fallspeed & gravity increased)
uthrow 139 ---> still 139
m2 bthrow 129 (dj/uair 131, downB 132) ---> still 129 (uair still 131, dj 132, downB 133)
luigi bthrow -
 

Luigi player

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Messages
4,106
Location
Austria
You're right. I just did some tests on this.

Fox upsmash
Bowser dies at 122%
Falcon dies at 115%

G&W upsmash
Bowser dies at 112%
Falcon dies at 106%

Jigglypuff rest
They both die at 62%

I don't really get it.
training mode KO% on omega BF:
- fox (uncharged) usmash:

Dedede: 129
DK: 124
Bowser: 123
Captain Falcon: 115

- m2 uthrow:

Dedede: 166
DK: 156
Bowser: 150
Captain Falcon: 148

It looks like Bowser is the odd one. But why? Because he is not a fastfaller? Is it the same for Jiggs' and about the same for M2s uthrow because of the angle? I hate this weirdness.

Are there just 2 possible ways things go? Some angles make fastfallers die earlier and some later? And others stay about the same? Why are 47° und 45° angles so different as well? Or is just every move different? Argh.
Actually, I think in the past I've noticed there are even differences with the same move depending on the % the target is...

Here's my full list I just tested, just to have another one for upwards KOs:

- fox (uncharged) usmash on omega BF KO% (DI 0°/180°):

Super Heavy
1.:4dedede:Dedede: 129 %
2.:4dk:DK: 124 %
3.:4bowser:Bowser: 123 %

Heavy
4.:4ganondorf:Ganondorf: 116 %
4.:4myfriends:Ike: 116 %
6.:4falcon:Captain Falcon: 115 %
6.:4charizard:Charizard: 115 %
6.:4megaman:Megaman: 115 %
9.:4wario2:Wario: 114 %
10.:4lucario:Lucario: 113 %
10.:4rob:ROB: 113 %
12.:4samus:Samus: 112 %
12.:4link:Link: 112 %
12.:4cloud:Cloud: 112 % (limit 114 %)
12.:4bowserjr:Bowser Jr.: 112 %
16.:4shulk:Shulk: 111 %
17.:4feroy:Roy: 110 %
17.:4ryu:Ryu: 110 %

Mid-Weight
19.:4corrinf:Corrin: 109 %
19.:4yoshi:Yoshi: 109 %
21.:4duckhunt:Duck Hunt: 108 %
21.:4mario:Mario: 108 %
21.:4drmario:Dr.Mario: 108 %
24.:4diddy:Diddy: 107 %
24.:4pit:Pit: 107 %
24.:4darkpit:Dark Pit: 107 %
24.:4robinf:Robin: 107 %
28.:4marth:Marth: 106 %
28.:4lucina:Lucina: 106 %
28.:4pacman:Pacman: 106 %
28.:4villager:Villager: 106 %
32.:4sonic:Sonic: 104 %
32.:4littlemac:Little Mac: 104 %
32.:4luigi:Luigi: 104 %
35.:4ness:Ness: 103 %
35.:4lucas:Lucas: 103 %
35.:4wiifit:WiiFitTrainer: 103 %
38.:4bayonetta2:Bayonetta: 102 %
38.:4greninja:Greninja: 102 %
38.:4tlink:Toon Link: 102 %
41.:4palutena:Palutena: 100 %

Leight-Weight
42.:4falco:Falco: 99 %
42.:4zelda:Zelda: 99 %
42.:4peach:Peach: 99 %
45.:4metaknight:MetaKnight: 98 %
45.:4zss:ZSS: 98 %
47.:4fox:Fox: 96 %
47.:4olimar:Olimar: 96 %
47.:4pikachu:Pikachu: 96 %
50.:4sheik:Sheik: 95 %
51.:4kirby:Kirby: 93 %
51.:4mewtwo:Mewtwo: 93 %
51.:rosalina:Rosalina: 93 %
54.:4gaw:GaW: 90 %

Balloon
55.:4jigglypuff:Jigglypuff: 85 %
 
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arbustopachon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
282
Location
Uruguay
Bowser does have a high gravity meaning he takes increased vertical knockback. Maybe that's whats causing this weirdness?
 
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