Character Matchup Discussion - Donkey Kong

charizardbro

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
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163
#2
Offense

Flamethrower and retreating SH fair are very safe approach options against Dong. Dong has a hard time punishing Fair in particular. It's safe in shield if you fade back far enough. Nair of course confirms into jabs for a while since Dong is a heavy but it's low priority so be careful. Rock smash is also really good in this matchup because Dong is big enough to take all of the shards of rock as well as the main hit pretty easily (that's around 30% damage, yo). Rock smash also shield pokes Dong extremely well on block.

We combo Dong pretty well now at low percent. Dthrow to fair works extremely well and you might be able to catch Dongs DIing toward you on bthrow every once in a while as a result. Our strings out of dthrow can also go well beyond the guaranteed fair but you have to watch out for Dongs that mash out of the combo with nair. We also get somewhat high percentage (65 to 95ish without DI) combos with reverse Nair to tipper ftilt. Since Dong is a heavy, Utilt also combos into itself pretty well at low and mid percent. It's also possible to combo into Uair if the second utilt doesn't have quite enough range. Buffer the uair out of jump squat if you can though. Flamethrower is life in this matchup. Especially for very safe edge guards. Dtilt at the ledge forces Dong into a pretty predictable recovery at mid high to high percents which can set up a fair/dair kill. Dong also has no disjointed options so be sure you poke with dtilt in neutral. I'm not sure if it clanks with Dong's ftilt/dtilt though. Our bait and punish game is also very strong on landing Dongs since his landing options (ie. Nair) are pretty meh until you get into a position where he can bair you.

We have plenty of nice kill options in this matchup but Dong probably isn't going to die too early unless you Dair, gimp offstage, or get a hard read. Uthrow is a very nice failsafe as always. Also don't forget about our jab 2 options if you're having trouble killing at kill percent.

Defense

Dong has some really mean combos at low percents with utilt and uair and Dong can set this up pretty handily with a grab or dtilt (if it trips). Do not roll into utilt shenanigans at low percent. You will regret it. Rock smash and rock hurl can help us get out but if Dong baits that out you will eat a huge punish. Avoiding crazy strings at low percents will save you all kinds of headaches.

But the back breaker in this matchup has to be bair imo. It's quick and if Dong crosses up your shield with it, there's very little you can do about it unless you powershield. It can string into itself at mid percents too. Dong can also go very far offstage with his good horizontal recovery and pick up early kills with it. It's also great for mid percent stage spikes.

If the Dong you're playing is very adept with bair, you should seriously consider bringing flare blitz. Bair won't beat that heavy armor and the damage might force your opponent to respect your recovery more and put a stop to early bair kills off of the side.

Our landing options are pretty good this time around. Rock smash, as I've said, shield pokes very well and Dong doesn't have any particularly great options for punishing our Nair landings if we space and AC properly. Be ready to dtilt or jab when you land and you'll live unless he gets a dashing powershield. Be sure to mix things up to avoid that though.


Overall this matchup is pretty even. I think Zard generally racks up percent better than Dong from neutral but Dong has better early combo potential. Zards got the edge in neutral because his options are safer but that goes out the window if Zard eats a 40 percent combo early on. Zard has good kill options in this matchup but Zard has to avoid losing early stocks to bair. 55:45 Zard imo. Not sure what it would be against windkong.
 

Ninj4pikachu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
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294
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#3
Offense

Flamethrower and retreating SH fair are very safe approach options against Dong. Dong has a hard time punishing Fair in particular. It's safe in shield if you fade back far enough. Nair of course confirms into jabs for a while since Dong is a heavy but it's low priority so be careful. Rock smash is also really good in this matchup because Dong is big enough to take all of the shards of rock as well as the main hit pretty easily (that's around 30% damage, yo). Rock smash also shield pokes Dong extremely well on block.

We combo Dong pretty well now at low percent. Dthrow to fair works extremely well and you might be able to catch Dongs DIing toward you on bthrow every once in a while as a result. Our strings out of dthrow can also go well beyond the guaranteed fair but you have to watch out for Dongs that mash out of the combo with nair. We also get somewhat high percentage (65 to 95ish without DI) combos with reverse Nair to tipper ftilt. Since Dong is a heavy, Utilt also combos into itself pretty well at low and mid percent. It's also possible to combo into Uair if the second utilt doesn't have quite enough range. Buffer the uair out of jump squat if you can though. Flamethrower is life in this matchup. Especially for very safe edge guards. Dtilt at the ledge forces Dong into a pretty predictable recovery at mid high to high percents which can set up a fair/dair kill. Dong also has no disjointed options so be sure you poke with dtilt in neutral. I'm not sure if it clanks with Dong's ftilt/dtilt though. Our bait and punish game is also very strong on landing Dongs since his landing options (ie. Nair) are pretty meh until you get into a position where he can bair you.

We have plenty of nice kill options in this matchup but Dong probably isn't going to die too early unless you Dair, gimp offstage, or get a hard read. Uthrow is a very nice failsafe as always. Also don't forget about our jab 2 options if you're having trouble killing at kill percent.

Defense

Dong has some really mean combos at low percents with utilt and uair and Dong can set this up pretty handily with a grab or dtilt (if it trips). Do not roll into utilt shenanigans at low percent. You will regret it. Rock smash and rock hurl can help us get out but if Dong baits that out you will eat a huge punish. Avoiding crazy strings at low percents will save you all kinds of headaches.

But the back breaker in this matchup has to be bair imo. It's quick and if Dong crosses up your shield with it, there's very little you can do about it unless you powershield. It can string into itself at mid percents too. Dong can also go very far offstage with his good horizontal recovery and pick up early kills with it. It's also great for mid percent stage spikes.

If the Dong you're playing is very adept with bair, you should seriously consider bringing flare blitz. Bair won't beat that heavy armor and the damage might force your opponent to respect your recovery more and put a stop to early bair kills off of the side.

Our landing options are pretty good this time around. Rock smash, as I've said, shield pokes very well and Dong doesn't have any particularly great options for punishing our Nair landings if we space and AC properly. Be ready to dtilt or jab when you land and you'll live unless he gets a dashing powershield. Be sure to mix things up to avoid that though.


Overall this matchup is pretty even. I think Zard generally racks up percent better than Dong from neutral but Dong has better early combo potential. Zards got the edge in neutral because his options are safer but that goes out the window if Zard eats a 40 percent combo early on. Zard has good kill options in this matchup but Zard has to avoid losing early stocks to bair. 55:45 Zard imo. Not sure what it would be against windkong.
^ charazardbro pretty much summed up this match to a T, I'll go ahead and add my two cents worth about custom dong instead.

Custom DK has a few more tricks up his simeon sleeves to look out for. The windy up B (can't remember name) catches many people off guard and can be used to out right gimp some characters who dare to edge guard it. The key is to approach it from the side rather than from below. This way you are less likely to get tossed out or under the stage. When caught in his tornado you aren't actually in hitstun. This is when you should use rock smash to rack up damage.

Tornado punch is also something to be weary of when customs are on. This attack makes flair blitz (or any other version of it) a bad recovery because DK can just blow you away. Also your going to want to use fly less often in the neutral because of its vulnerablity afterward during free fall. If DK is sneaky he can sometimes completely avoid fighting you in the neutral by approaching with this and getting you offstage.

DK's final custom worth mentioning is the jumping headbutt. When used in the air this drops DK like an anvil making punishing his landings more difficult. This move also makes a good approach option because of its speed. Lucks this move didn't ground you for as long and even if your hit while grounded, you recive less knock back.

Thats pretty much it for custom DK all his other customs are inferior to standard variants. Hope this helped. And hope they come out with a custom game mode for online.
 

Swamp Sensei

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GRimer
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Swampasaur
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#4
This attack makes flair blitz (or any other version of it) a bad recovery because DK can just blow you away. .
Not quite true.

It's odd.

Whenever Flare Blitz hits a windbox or waterbox it goes diagonally in the direction it was originally going.

I don't know why this happens, but I do think it requires testing.
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
GRimer
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Swampasaur
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#6
Haha well I still wouldn't consider that a favorable position would you?
Depends.

It can put lots of space between you and the opponent and can confuse the living daylights out of people.

I fought a Pac-Man once and used the water from the Hydrant to get behind him.

He just sat there, jaw agape.



I'm pretty sure we can do the same with storm punch.
 
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Ridleylash
#9
Honestly, Charizard/DK is still probably one of the matches where I'd say that Charizard has a clear leg up. DK really does suffer from a bad recovery, and Charizard has edgegaurding moves that rip right into it (Flamethrower, DAir, BAir). Not to mention DK is always going to gravitate to the ledge when recovering with USpecial to cancel out the landing lag on it, which makes it easy to get DAir spikes on DK, since we know where he'll be.

It's no cakewalk; the cargo+Uthrow+followup shenanigans are a potent threat, after all; but Zard's DThrow-FAir/UAir shenanigans are also pretty bad for DK to face. I think that the aerial lag buffs on Zard also make him a much more threatening opponent for DK, and certainly one of the more interesting MU's.

I'd say 55/40 in Charizard's favor; he has the better edgeguarding and can also pull the same shenanigans as DK.
 

Steeler

Smash Hero
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Steeler
#10
I think you're right, DK has no projectile and relies on the same kind of setups to deal damage. His grab game is scarier but we really can reliably gimp DK. He has always felt like one of my favorite matchups to play against. The recovery difference between the two is much greater than any advantage DK would have on stage. Just a slight 55/45 for zard imo, DK still can **** ya up pretty hard in a juggle and has a great boxing game on par with ours, with better reward. Flamethrower is really effective on him too.
 
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