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Guide Character Match-Ups

blast_ssbb

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
618
Location
queens, NY
mr joey u make it sound like his cape has no lag... his cape is fast but u can definitely get around it.
sveral ways:
-shl as u approach let him cape the laser then short hop over it and n-air him.
-run at him, right as u get in front of him wavedash backwards and f-smash, he'll cape, miss and get f-smashed.
-u can do that thing that u just mentioned that u do to marth. run at him jump when he capes and back air.
-u can jump onto him with a b-air cuz even if he capes it, it will still connect.
- dashdance right in front of him until he capes then run in with a dash attack,

trust me the cape is not as godly as u think it is... just watch out for lasers coming back at u when u approach with shl and u should be fine... these are just some ways to get around it... play with them and add ur own variations and u'll be on ur way to miindgaming him consistently... just remember dont stay predictable!
 

invertigo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
384
the cape isnt godly at all i dont understand what you are still having trouble with. send a video or something. ive never had trouble with caping even against good players.
 

mr_joey132

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
745
Location
Ordon Village
hmm yeah.. I suck at mindgames and stuff.. too predictable :/ onmost everytime I attack I just come in with a Dair/Nair or grab or something. I'll try blast_ssbb's tips when I play him again, thanks. :)
 

GamerGuitarist7

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
2,015
Location
Tucson AZ
haha wow gimpyfish posted in my thread? honor. well someone wrote a bowser match-up in the last page but i haven' put it up yet. check it out gimpy and see if you can add/tale away anything and let me know so we don't get kicked by bowser's low tier gayness lol.
 

Gimpyfish62

Banned (62 points)
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
12,297
Location
Edmonds, Washington
haha, i think i'll mm forward when he is in washington and record it so you can see bowser get combo ***** XD

if any more advice is needy just ask away all though i doubt unless ur playing gimpy fish or in NY playing killa fleet u dont need help with bowsers
haha thanks, but theres no space in my name, at least you didn't capitolize the f XD
 

GamerGuitarist7

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
2,015
Location
Tucson AZ
i played forward a few days ago. he's incredibly good with his falco. only one match too i got 3 stocked lol. i'll have a match against b-will's bowser soon maybe i'll put that up for one of the matches for that match-up. he wrecked me pretty bad it was close but i barely came through. his marth is too good though i'm too embarassed to ever put those matches up haha.
 

Nightblade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
260
I was thinking, if the Tier List is made up on how well certain character nationally do overall, wouldn't doing the top of the tiers be a good idea? Looking at the tiers...

Top Tier
Fox
Falco

High Tier
Sheik
Marth
Peach


Middle Tier

Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario

Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf

Low Tier
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
So in theory, Jiggs, Mario, Link and Luigi would be the best bets. Mario would probably be easy since he's close to Doc. Anyways, just my take on it.

((I know I deleted half the Low Tier and Lower Tier, but I didn't need them to make my point))
 

blast_ssbb

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
618
Location
queens, NY
jiggs is gay to play against and so boring to play with! do ppl still play with her???
gimpyfish sry about spelling ur name wrong... did i miss anything in that bowser guide?
well im from NYC and bum is definitely a beast hes been on fire lately beating everyone in singles, in the last couple of weekly tourneys, hes beaten pc and forward (when he was here) so i definitely need that dk guide!!
 

invertigo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
384
it would be awesome if gimpy wrote our bowser guide. maybe he can fix my ganon guide too.
 

GamerGuitarist7

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
2,015
Location
Tucson AZ
Updated!

I added blast's Bowser match-ups, dividers between match-ups, and a character finder and contents list. it's awesome. i love it. too good

anyways, check it out and let me know if theres any error's in links, the match-up finder, or anything like that. enjoy!
 

invertigo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
384
gamer are there any matches of you? i want to see how good you are, after all its your guide :p
 

invertigo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
384
care to be a guest guide writer? it would be such an honor, unless youre busy haha. i love your vids
 

invertigo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
384
i dont know man ive never met a bowser main i couldnt destroy :p. im sure you would own me, but im just saying ;)
 

GamerGuitarist7

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
2,015
Location
Tucson AZ
invertigo: i'll have matches up soon i think. i went to a tourney last week and the matches are recorded but they're still being put up. hopefully you guys won't think i suck and ignore my guide :) i'll have a falco vs. bowser (me vs. our mod, b-will ((too good))) and i'll probably put that up in the bowser section.


gimpy you're too good. in your match's agianst falco it would be like 90-10 in your favor. jk jk. i go by phanna's match up guide. i disagree with some of them too lol. also feel free to throw bowser/falco tips in. and good luck with forward, he ***** me last week lol.
 

Driz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Messages
157
I love this guide keep adding charaters because the advice is great and I truly believe its helping my match ups a great deal!
 

g0nz02

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
92
Location
Geneva, Illinois
The Bowser vs Falco vid is utter trash. The Bowser didn't LCancel anything, the Falco just smashed and shined (I didn't see one waveshine.. VS BOWSER). I understand that videos will be hard to find, but honestly, I'd suggest taking that down until a suitable one is found. It doesn't show much.

Other than that, thanks alot for the help. The Marth section is one that I, in particular, found helpful- my local tourneys usually have 4 or 5 Marths out of 10 or 20 people.
 

Gimpyfish62

Banned (62 points)
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
12,297
Location
Edmonds, Washington
he had a solid advantage but it wasn't as one sided as i would have expected i'll put up a few of the good matches aw yea

we did some crazy bowser vs falco japes matches those were SO FUN LOL
 

GamerGuitarist7

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
2,015
Location
Tucson AZ
forward works that stage too good. it's amazing, i never knew how maneuverable falco was on that stage til i saw him on it. and that's a good bowser stage too isn't it? i dunno boozer sucks to me so i never use him :-D
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
Truthfully, Falco doesn't have that much of an advantage over Fox. That fight is EXACTLY even, especially at high levels of play. You don't even explain HOW to avoid a Fox's chianthrowing if the follow DI using the U-tilt.

But maybe this guide isn't based off high levels of play. o_O IDK
In that case, that would be true.

Otherwise, good guide and nice video picks.
 

blast_ssbb

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
618
Location
queens, NY
Truthfully, Falco doesn't have that much of an advantage over Fox. That fight is EXACTLY even, especially at high levels of play. You don't even explain HOW to avoid a Fox's chianthrowing if the follow DI using the U-tilt.

But maybe this guide isn't based off high levels of play. o_O IDK
In that case, that would be true.
well explaining how to get out of chaingrab is the same for peach marth or anyother character that can chaingrab a space animal.... its all in the DI.... but for someone talking about high level play u seem to not know the basics... u shouldnt come here bashing a guide just cuz u need a specific explanation on how to DI.... ive chaingrabbed many ppl into the 60-70% just cuz they didnt know they could shine out of it... that part was covered and u were warned to avoid fox's great combo ability on falco using throws... but then again maybe u only read the first line that had percentages... i dont know but coming out of left field like that to claim this guide isnt helpful for high level play is a stupid accusation..
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
well explaining how to get out of chaingrab is the same for peach marth or anyother character that can chaingrab a space animal.... its all in the DI.... but for someone talking about high level play u seem to not know the basics... u shouldnt come here bashing a guide just cuz u need a specific explanation on how to DI.... ive chaingrabbed many ppl into the 60-70% just cuz they didnt know they could shine out of it... that part was covered and u were warned to avoid fox's great combo ability on falco using throws... but then again maybe u only read the first line that had percentages... i dont know but coming out of left field like that to claim this guide isnt helpful for high level play is a stupid accusation..
thank you.

Truthfully, I didn't mean to bash on the guide like that. I reread my post afterward and saw how ***-hole-ish I sounded. Thank you for bashing me back.

On the other hand, that doesn't mean I'm a complete nub. All I was saying was that I didn't like how the guide said that you couldn't do anything against it. Or maybe Im reading it wrong.

Also, for against Sheiks, some like to use U-throw over d-throw, especially on the Space animals, and a good counter would be to not DI(or DI up), and shine out of that to Up-b(just cause it looks cooler XD). No, seriously, shine to dair, then continue comboing.

Thank you
 

blast_ssbb

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
618
Location
queens, NY
lol no prob im always happy to bash ppl who seem *******-ish. lol everyones opinion is valued as a contribution thanks for ur contribution to the guide... lol gamerG im defending ur ***! lol <3 keep up the good work
 

Oskurito

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
1,948
Location
Hell
Yeah Jigglypuff is one of the hardest match ups for falco as well as marth and sheik and maybe fox too, I don't know what's up with bowser If you're playing falco vs. bowser you should OWN unless you're playing gimpyfish...
 

xelad1

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
763
Here is my attempt at a jigglypuff addition:

Jigglypuff

I guess I would give this match a 55%/45% in favor of falco but not much more than that
-Laser A LOT. This seems like a no brainer (especially against those **** floaties like Samus and Peach) but it is very critical to falco in this particular matchup since falco can’t go crazy with the shine combos. This doesn’t mean however that you should just camp lasers, you need to dance with them and use them to set up hits since the Jigglypuff can and WILL float over you lasers and hit you in the face if you aren’t careful.
-Full hopped aerials are your friend in this matchup since they help keep Jiggs in the air and juggle her. Dair to shine works at very low percentages (I don’t know how much higher it goes than 0) which is good for getting the first 20+ percent on the jigs but after that the Dair will pop the jigs up in which case you may want to follow it with a jab or a shuffled aerial if she moves too far away. Of course if you catch the jigs mid air and Dair her you can use the shine afterwards.
-With proper spacing if the Jiggs misses something like an over b or shuffled fair you can f smash the jiggly to the face, this is a surprisingly viable option though don’t do it too much since it will become predictable and eventually you’ll be tricked into doing it and punished.
-Don’t get grabbed EVER. Though this may seem like a no brainer, jigs grabs are quite detrimental to falcos heatlh. Preferably if you are going to get grabbed it should happen after you have some percentage locked on you so the jigs doesn’t get an easy u throw to rest kill. Either way grabs from jigs are bad freakin news, they lead into uair combos, rests, you name it the jigglypuff will do it to you.
-Also don’t play close to the edge, jigglypuff definitely has the advantage here and she can absolutely **** falcos recovery, its almost unfair and will make you cry as you get baird out of a firebird. With that being said, make sure to use over b whenever you can, the firebird is pretty much instant death vs. a jigs that knows what they are doing.
-Bair will probably be one of your main kill moves so make sure to use it liberally for tacking on damage and killing the jigglypuff.
-Another possible kill move (at higher percents) is a full hopped dair from falco. I suppose this is kind of universal, but it worth noting.
-Some advice from Oskurito, "... don't forget the Up smash can kill jiggs at 80~90% If they don't DI so Up smash out of the shield can be useful and very unpredictable", I took another look at the Azen match and I noticed he uses this when king misses a rest.
-This is something I took directly from bornfidelity’s guide to falco stickied here in our forums (the other stuff is kinda just common knowledge from my experience and what I’ve heard about how to play against jigs etc.), something worth noting that I didn’t really think of ,

“Tilt him. It's one of your few defenses against his annoying aerial play. Jpuff wants to attack your shield and float back out of grabbing range - a lot. So ftilt to keep him away. He's coming from above? Utilt. Utilt is sometimes highly underestimated and can eat through virtually anything, including a pink puffball coming from above. Use dtilt lots. It's got good range, and KO's the way you should KO puff on most stages; up, up, and further up! Especially on stages like Dreamland 64 KO'ing puff is a real pain, because he can recover from about anywhere (five jumps + five (rising) pounds = insane). Dtilt could connect after you CC a bair or pound.”

If anyone has any other suggestions?

Azen(falco) vs. King(Jiggs) http://youtube.com/watch?v=WnocN1VvksE
TGE Bob$(Falco) vs Foxroar(Jigglypuff) http://youtube.com/watch?v=peXqWuzIh7M – this shows how quickly the tide can turn for falco with some key mistakes.

Any other videos that people have or can find would be appreciated. There aren’t many that I’ve seen probably because of fox and marth’s popularity as a jigs counter pick.
 

Oskurito

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
1,948
Location
Hell
That's nice advice, but don't forget the Up smash can kill jiggs at 80~90% If they don't DI so Up smash out of the shield can be useful and very unpredictable
 
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