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Character Match-Ups (Guide) Will be updated soon

Discussion in 'Falco' started by GamerGuitarist7, Feb 3, 2007.

  1. GamerGuitarist7

    GamerGuitarist7
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    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,015
    Location:
    Tucson AZ
    [SIZE=+2]Character Match-Ups![/SIZE]
    Hey everyone! I just wanted to do what I can to donate to SWF, so I'm going to try and write character match-ups for Falco against every character (which will obviously take some time.) Anyways, it will follow this format


    Enemy Name
    Match Up scale (http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=92025)
    Tips, strategies, etc :) (Things to use, things to watch out for)
    Videos of battles with that enemy.

    I am open to any tips and suggestions from any of you so feel free to post other ideas and strategies or even your own matchups!! The next match-ups from this point on will most likely be done in order of the tier list. but due to requests this won't always be the case.


    Updates:
    4-22-07 Added blast_ssbb's Bowser guide. Added Contents list and Character Match-Up finder. changed all the 'Shiek's to 'Sheik's. added dividers between match-ups. Thinking about adding a Good/Bad stage for matchup section to each.
    4-8-07 Added doctor mario match-up by invertigo, edited/added to peach, samus, and captain falcon thanks to tips from wesley.
    4-6-07 Sorry for lack of updates, been busy and grounded from the computer lol. Finished for the most part on Samus, Added Wesley's Ice Climbers mathup, Added Invertigo's Ganon match-up. 3 in one day ftw.
    3-20-07 Minor update to Marth, including a new video of DaShizWiz vs Dark Falchion, edited and added a bit here and there to Falco
    3-19-07 (night) Added a bit to the Peach section
    3-19-07 (morning) Yes, it's been a while. I moved into a new house and had no internet then I had to go to Phoenix so I haven't had too much time to update this. So today, you get Captain Falcon thanks to tips from blast_ssbb and others(which may be added on later) and I'll be starting Samus next.
    3-2-07 Added Peach thanks to the superb help or superrvan :)
    3-1-07 Updated everything, added this update list, finished Marth, began Falco. Added tips from BornFidelity's match-ups (With permission of course!) Made everything nicer looking and hopefully more organized, with italics, bold, colors, points


    The Character Match-Ups finder! To use this, go to the 'Find' part of your browser (usually Ctrl+F) and type in a / followed by the first 3 letters of the character's name. For example, if you're looking for Sheik, type in /she and it will take you straight to the match-up! (type the finder WITHOUT the parenthesis)


    Contents: Char. Finder
    I. Sheik (/she)
    II. Fox (/fox)
    III. Marth (/mar)
    IV. Falco (/fal)
    V. Peach (/pea)
    VI. Captain Falcon (/cap)
    VII. Samus (/sam)
    VIII. Ice Climbers (/ice)
    IX. Ganondorf (/gan)
    X. Doctor Mario (/doc)
    XI. Bowser (/bow)


    /she_____________________________________________________________________

    [highlight]Sheik[/highlight]

    Falco- 60%, Sheik- 40%
    • Sheiks will try to crouch under your SHL, so go for those REALLY low shots to get her to come to you.
    • Your lasers WILL cancel out her needles, but only if she throws one. Don't let her gather them up by lasering her.
    • Try not to get grabbed. She can unleash some rediculous combos on you if you miss a tech.
    • Shine combos own her. Shine her, then JC (or waveshine) and dair her, fastfall, lcancel, shine again. You can keep this going for a while if you are good at chasing DI. Throw in some utilts becuase they outprioritize most of her aerials.
    • When she's recovering, try and stay away from the short hop dair. It won't hurt her in her upB animation, and you'll probably get damaged in the process. Use the Dsmash vvv
    • Dsmash is your friend, especially when they're recovering. If you're hanging on the edge, either LD and then land and Dsmash, or just go up on the edge and Dsmash. Usually they'll land just above the ground and you can get them with the smash.
    • If you're at high damage, avoid her dash attack and ftilt at all costs. She'll dash attack you, then jump up and Fair you. Her fair is a semi-spike. And, with Falco's bad recovery, you're most likely screwed. There's really no way to DI or recover from a fair it pretty high damage. Try and keep her away with lasers if you're up there, and through in an occasional shffl'd dair and hope to start a combo. try not to use to many moves with lots of windup lag cause she'll dash in there.
    • Her dthrow to dsmash is another good combo, and also watch out for ftilt juggles on the ground, and uair juggles in the air. Her uair is a pretty good KO move, better than yours. If you want to kill her with an aerial, bair is a good idea (or dair but be careful with that one cause of her up-b damage)
    • Her needles will mess up your recovery, so if she throws a needle (which can go horizontal and diagnal in the air) you have different options: drop a little bit out of needle range and then try and fire bird up, or immediately try and fire bird. Her chain/rope thing is another to watch out for. it outprioritizes your firebird and maybe the phantasm too, so watch out for that too, again start upBing immediately, or drop under and try and make it. and you may have to do it a few times before you grab the edge.
    • You can juggle her a little bit with your utilt too, but don't keep it up too long. SH a bair after a few then chase her with FJ lasers
    • Her bair WILL outprioritize your phantasm and firebird, so try and be tricky and sweetspot the edge, etc. its tough to get around though.
    • Try not and firebird too close to the ledge, becuase she will dash off the stage and fair you.
    Good Matches:
    Dope (Falco) vs. Drephen (Sheik)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIWDxqoIisE

    Shiz (Falco) vs. Ksn (Sheik)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrvzc3nNg-c

    /fox_____________________________________________________________________

    Thanks Wesley for the Fox one:

    [highlight]Fox[/highlight]

    Falco - 60/55% Fox - 40/45%
    • Fox is one of the easiest characters to shine combo (the other being another falco), so if ever there's a matchup to go crazy with your waveshine comboing, this is the one. Falco can easily combo fox to ~50% from 0% off of one shine, and if Fox makes any mistakes on techs or whatnot, the combo can be extended almost to death.
    • Fox can CG Falco off of the uthrow, but this is broken around 28-30%ish if you DI up, then shine ASAP. A smart Fox will chain to 25%ish then attempt to continue the combo by using utilt, then reading your DI and grabbing again, and later will just follow DI and usmash you off the top. This form of comboing is only slightly less effective than Falco's shine comboing, so don't overestimate your combo advantage in this match.
    • Falco's Laser's stun, while Fox's don't, duh. This give Falco the edge in the longer range game, but just be wary of a shine happy Fox sending your SHLs back at you. Use the Laser to cover your approach, as Fox can fire more lasers at a distance, and doesn't mind trading damage with Falco, since the shine combos are so brutal to his health.
    • Fox is significantly faster than Falco and has a much much much better DD game. A DD camping fox should be SHLed a lot at short range to prevent DDing, especially with the brutal grab game Fox has vs. Falco.
    • Falco is a pretty easy Shine spike for Fox, so play smart while recovering. Be sure to mix up your recovery and try to avoid using up b against a good shine spiker, as you don't have fire to protect you in the early frames. If you are caught low and need to firebird up, be ready to DI the shine towards the wall, then tech so that you have a chance to live.
    • Fox has much better recovery than Falco, so while you're getting gimped, it can be a real pain to finish off Fox. Try to keep his lives as short as possible by landing dsmashes on the edgegaurd or finishing combos with fsmash, bair, or a dair over the edge. Jab -> Fsmash works somewhere in the above 100% range (120%ish I beleive) and if you find yourself unable to finish a combo with a kill move, don't hesitate to try to land a jab with a quick fsmash for the kill. Ledgehopped bair is also your best friend for killing Foxes. It's an almost sure-fire way to kill the resiliant little guy.
    • Fox will try to kill you off the top, even though Falco is fairly resiliant to verticle kills. Good DI is very important to survive as long as possible. Be ready to keep DIing away from a Fox that just uthrowed you at over 80%, as he's almost sure to try a usmash or uair for the kill. With good DI, Falco is fairly resiliant to dying off the top, which leaves gimping with shine or similar edgegaurding as Fox's main form of killing Falco. You're still going to die off the top every once in awhile, but making Fox work for his kills is the key to winning this matchup.
    • Don't try to get flashy and challenge the FH nair -> shine. This strat for Fox outprioritizes your entire approach game, so don't try challenging it, just SHL him and force him to switch it up so that you can find an opening.
    • Avoid trying to shield grab his dair, which is pretty obvious, because he will lcancel and shine afterwards.
    • Utilt owns and outprioritized Fox's aerials, including the FJ nair. it's also good for juggling him on the ground, and in waveshine combos it can lead into an aerial or a good smash. utilt, jab, fsmash :)
    Good Matches (suggestion courtesy of DaShizWiz and superrvan)
    Bombsoldier vs. Jing 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_gVVK-PvXI

    Bombsoldier vs. Jing 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJYOdbyt9uc

    Bombsoldier vs. Jing 3
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsr_rhhYsnM

    /mar_____________________________________________________________________

    [highlight]Marth[/highlight]

    Falco: 50% Marth: 50% (Pretty even and common fight, though marth has a slight advantage)
    • So many people say this and I'm going to have to say it again, Marth's CG is hell and you ALWAYS want to Lcancel your aerials to avoid it. Things you want to do if grabbed:
    • DI randomly at low percentages to try and throw them off. Mix it up, go left two times, then right, just don't have a pattern. You may want to DI up too, especially when your damage is in the 40s and above.
    • If he misses a grab, tech!!!! he may try and ftilt you or fsmash, so you may even want to techroll and hope he doesn't expect it. but, you may be techchased and grabbed and put back into another CG.
    • If you get fsmashed out of a CG, DI up and towards the stage. so, if he tippers you to the left, DI up/right and try to return..
      Back to general Marth tips:
    • Abuse the hell out of your laser. You can use it as an approach, but try and make him come to you (thanks A-laon!)

      'I can never stress this enough in the Marth match-up: you have the laser - make him come to you. Putting Marth on the offensive removes so many of his options against Falco, and you can quite effortlessly negate and counter just about any approach tactic he uses. Hell, this also puts him in far harder of a position to get a grab oppertunity. Patient lasering, my son. Make him come to you.' -A-laon
    • Shine combos work pretty good on him but you can't keep them going too long because he recovers in the air pretty fast. So shine- dair- and maybe an uptilt and a bair at higher damages.
    • Shine to uair is another good combo on Marth.
    • The SH dair does spike his Up-B, but I'm pretty sure you will always get knocked back from it.
    • It's pretty tough to edge hog him if he comes from under you, if you roll in he'll usually be there long enough to grab it. You can jump on the edge right as he's about to use his up-B, or you can do the firebird thing where you grab the edge again (if theres a name for that someone tell me) You really only need your invincibility for when he actually does the move since its damage time doesn't last very long.
    • Another one from A-laon: 'At least in the Marth match-up, shffled nairs should be used in place of dairs a little more, just for that extra priority to help balance the field with Marth's sword. At lower damages, it still leads into a shine quite nicely.'
    • Lightshield edgehog beats his up-B when he tries to sweet spot. This is how I would do it: roll towards the edge, and while in the roll press and hold Z. When you come out of the roll (hopefully all the way at the edge) you'll have a lightshield up. Point the shield towards the edge of the stage. If he sweetspots with his up-b, you'll take it and edgehog him. if not, you'll take it but you may have time to get back on the stage and smash him or somethign because of his windup lag.
    • Bairing immediately after a shine is another good combo
    • Spotdodge a lot to avoid his grabs. You can shine pretty fast out of spot dodges too, and thus start a combo.
    • Again, abuse your laser.
    • WD out of shield is a good way to get a grab or tilt on him mostly after he fsmashes your shield and you go back a little bit.
    • Play center stage because you do not want to be edgegaurded by marth. almost all his moves are great for edgegaurding, but the more common ones are his dtilt and fsmash. learn to sweet spot and mix up between firebirds and phantasms
    • Stay far away or close to marth. keep him away with those lasers, of shffl a nair and get a shine in
    • Ledge-hopped double lasers are very effective for stalling marths at the edge long enough to get back up there and attack
    • In my opinion, teching is very important against Marths. His ability to edge gaurd falco is relaly good, but teching can save you. His common edgegaurd moves, as stated above, are fsmash and dtilt, both of which can be edgeteched (see Shiz vs. DF in matches section on Shiz's first stock)
    Good matches:
    Ken (Marth) vs Bombsoldier (Falco)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9mZgPsPBvc

    Forward (Falco) vs Ken (Marth)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52o9pQVp5RE

    DaShizWiz (Falco) vs Dark Falchion (Marth)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lI3BrBa8RY

    /fal_____________________________________________________________________

    [highlight]Falco[/highlight]

    Falco: 50%/ Falco 50%
    • This match clearly falls in the hands of the more skilled player in Falco dittos, but fortunately a lot of combos that work on Fox work on Falco as well so reference to Wesley's Fox matchup. Also remember that every tip in this section can be used against you.
    • Waveshine combos. Shine him, WD, chase his DI, and shffl a dair, shine again, keep it going to about the third shine (around 40-45%) and throw in utilts or uairs. if you do another dair -> shine around 40% damage, they will be able to get out by either teching or floating out. the uair keeps them in the air and you can shffl a nair to fsmash or anything like that.
    • When the enemy Falco shffl's a dair into a shine on your shield, you can spot dodge his shine, then shine and start your own combo, or JC your shield into a shine.
    • Against his recovery- Phantasm: you can do various things when you predict his phantasm. you can edgehog him in the invinciblity frames, dsmash (works wonders), or ftilt him if he goes just around the edge. in the air, a nair or bair will work. Firebird: again, Dsmash works wonders. if used against you, its pretty easy to edgetech and then walljump phantasm him or something. Also, SH dairs own firebirds, and are a bit tougher to edgetech, but its still possible. ftilt still works but its not very effective for anything except making him firebird again.
    • The Bair is good for KOing. Shine to bair (like Shiz) or a ledgedropped bair when they are recovering. There's other ways too of course
    • Of course, be careful and well placed with your SHL. You'll both be using it but you both have shines to send them back. Its great for when they're recovering (a well placed SHL can turn a phantasm into a Dair-able firebird) but not necesarily for an approach. As for an approach, shffl's into shines or things like that
    • You can also CC their shine at low damage. learn how to double shine so that if they do it to you, you'll a) get them up on the second shien or b) do double damage if the CC still
    Good matches
    Shiz (Falco) vs. Metal_doc (Falco)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LhMwLO9iXc

    PC Chris (Falco) vs. Forward (Falco)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3McfSkRaQ8

    /pea_____________________________________________________________________

    Thanks a ton to superrvan for this Peach one, he pretty much told me all these tips and i worded them for the guide. So credit to him!

    [highlight]Peach[/highlight]

    Falco: 40% Peach: 60%
    • This one's obvious, never, ever, EVER CC against a dsmash happy peach. if you are fighting a dsmash happy peach, stay out of its range or wait for her to use it then attack. Shffling the Dair on her is better than the nair, becuase the dair has more stun time and you can get the shine out before she smashes you
    • Peach will float just above your laser height sometimes. attacking is an option, but its not the best idea to attack her at this point because most of her aerials will outprioritize you. If you keep your distance she can't really do much.
    • Because she likes to float above lasers, you want to keep your lasers as high as you can so push b earlier or fast fall later in the SHL.
    • When she's coming back down from the floating, you can laser then grab her. this is very effective against Peach. When grabbing, you want to use the uthrow becuase it is vital that you keep Peach up in the air.
    • Keep the combos simple. Falco is very maneuverable around Peach. Complicated combos will get you Nair'd. At low percentages, try shffl dair or nair, shine, and then uair her.
    • Avoid Dair to utilt, becuase she may CC it and dsmash. No one likes a dsmashing peach.
    • Abuse grabs against her. And like I said, you want to keep her in the air so mostly use the Uthrow. She can't use effective moves like dsmash or floatcancel high in the air. Bthrow also works pretty good. Even though you may not get an aerial out after a uthrow, you sitll have her in the air which is good.
    • Try not to rush Peach unless you're smart about it. Be careful and watch for sheild grabbing and dsmashes.
    • Laser camping annoys Peach's like crazy and it is very effective. Jump around, SHL, RSHL, LHDL, be creative and spam it on her. FJ triple lasers also work good on her as she's coming down.
    • Avoid sidestepping with Peach unless you want to come out into a dsmash from hell. There are various ways of dodging her besides that. rolling, WDing back, jumping, etc. Dodging is more effective than shielding against her, especially since you're more mobile.
    • When you're recovering and you see her following out there, drop below the atage upB and try and catch it at an angle, or you can shoot above her. Or start above her and phantasm behind her etc. If she's sitting at the edge spamming dsmashes, try and edgetech then phantasm behind her.
    • You can CC her dash attack and some aerials to attack her, but be very careful in CCing because of that dsmash.
    • Watch out for a FC'd bair into a grab
    • As for her turnips, spam lasers to keep her from pulling them out. When she's launching them at you, you can either shine them back, shield, jump, or even catch them lol. Watch out for stitch face though! Shining a stitchface back is teh ****. Ask Shiz lol.
    • Never Utilt her dash attack. it will cancel out but she'll be able to attack you back before you can.
    • Dair will hit Peach during her dsmash pretty much no matter where you hit her, but the nair will get you hit.
    • When peach is floating back with her parasol, dsmash works wonders at the edge. Never try and attack her parasol though, because its priority eats everything.
    • Laser -> upsmash is a great way to get her up in the air or KO her.
    • A lot of peaches will air dodge past you on the ground when they are recovering, so be prepared to do any counter move to them (bair, dair, smash, whatever works.)
    • Stay away from Peach's on DreamLand 64, because of the far killzones and her insane horizontal recovery and being hard to kill vertically.
    • At low percentages, when she CC's a dair, she'll stay in hitlag for a second which will avoid shine and let her dsmash faster than you can JC, which is bad, but the good news is that dtilt will hit them. Do this against peaches that want to CC you all game, just be careful because if you mess up the timing, you will CC a dsmash and it will hurt
    Good Matches:
    B-will (Falco) vs. Light (Peach)
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6673294724115709905&hl=en

    PC Chris (Falco) vs. Vidjo (Peach)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iof9C2Zoho

    /cap_____________________________________________________________________

    Tips provided for that high-speed racer Captain Falcon by blast_ssbb, thanks a lot!

    [highlight]Captain Falcon[/highlight]

    Falco: 70% C. Falcon: 30%
    • Captain Falcon is another fast faller like the space animals, and thus is easy to pull off shine combos, so go for those shines to rack up damage.
    • His dair, raptor boost (forward B), u-throw, and u-smash all lead into knees. Try and avoid the first two from tech chases. Falcon's tech chase game is effective and can lead into combos. Always mix it up to throw him off.
    • Be ready to DI the knee if he hits you with any of those. The knee can also hit you whichever way he's facing watch which way he hits you to know where to DI.
    • Captain Falcon is pretty easy to edgegaurd because his up-b is predictable and for the most part can only go one way. You can edge hog him easily, or a simple dair spike if he aims above the ledge, or a smash or other aerial also if he lands a bit above the ledge. You can use lasers on his recovery, but that could bring him closer to you. (anyone have tips on this?)
    • Tech chasing is most of Falcon's game. So mix it up between teching left, right, in place etc. you don't want him to tech chase you with a dair to knee.
    • Be strategic when recovering. You have many options, but he has ways to counter them. If you try and sweetspot a phantasm, he may dtilt to knee you. So be careful with that one. Switch up between firebirds (sweetspotted and not) and phantasms, and beware getting knee'd or bair'd when recovering because you won't make it back. His dair can be meteor-canclled or wall teched of course.
    • Lasers work wonders on Falcon. His spot dodge is bad and his roll is okay, so his ground game gets countered by laser approaches. Watch out for people that raptor boost through the laser when you get close because it can easily lead into a knee.
    • For a good stage, Final Destination is easy for comboing and he can't hide from lasers or land on them when recovering.
    • Just pressure Falcon and stay offensive and laser him to keep him from gaining opportunities to attack
    • The SHL is effective against Falcon, but watch your distances because he can close in on you really fast. keep your lasers high to keep him from shffl'ing into you over your lasers.
    • Captain Falcon also has terrible air priority, so if you see him committing to approach you, don't be afraid to challege him. In priority terms: Falco utilt > CF dair, Falco nair > CF nair, Falco dair > CF uair, so you have all your bases covered, just be aware and quick to react, and he should have trouble getting an initial hit in.
    Good Match
    PC Chris (Falco) vs. Darkrain (C. Falcon)
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=fpeJrpXPGjw

    /sam_____________________________________________________________________

    [highlight]Samus[/highlight]

    Falco: 60% Samus: 40%
    • Don't attack her shield too much, because even an l-cancelled aerial into a shine isn't fast enought to avoid getting up-b'd out of her shield.
    • Abuse your laser for this match-up too for pressure on her especially when shielding, and go for lasers into grab's on her shield.
    • Shining is usually best followed with a uair at mid to high damages.
    • When it comes to her projectiles, you can nair through missiles. if she's about to shoot a missle, shffl a nair into a shine then combo. When it comes to her charge shots, i usually shine every time i think she could shoot a charge shot (when it's full of course) Predict when she's going to shoot it and shine or you can just jump over/spot dodge and attack her.
    • Her bombs are very useful for her, especially in recovery. Laser's don't break them unfortunately. When she's recovering, just try and keep her away with lasers and hope she misses a bomb jump.
    • Samus has really good recovery climbing up stages with her grapple wall jump, especially on Final Destination and Fountain of Dreams. .So if you dair her, don't always count that she's gone.
    • Take a note that her grapple can only be used once per every time she's off the ground, so if she grapples up onto stage and you nair her back off, she won't be able to use the grapple again and will have to rely on a dair'able screw attack.
    • Her grab has big time wind-up lag, especially her standing grab. if you see a grab coming, spot dodge and then attack her because she'll be vulnerable for a while.
    • Her sex kick (nair) is in my opinion one of the best in the game. it stays out for a long time and outprioritizes firebird and phantasm unfortunately. theres no real tip on avoiding this besides play smart when you're recovering.
    • Her edgegaurding gameinvolves missiles, charge shots (oth of which are shinable of course) dair spikes, nairs, all her tilts, and dsmash. watch out for those moves, some are techable but they're tough. but you shouldn't spend too much time worrying because you've got the edge and she'll be the one off the stage
    • Ledgehopped bair is a great way to knock her back off after a recovery grapple. Once she's off, shoot FJ triple lasers while she's high, SHL when she's low, and then go for the edge hog to get the ledgehopped bair once she's below the stage.
    • After a dair, while she's in her hitlag a dtilt also works if she likes to CC your aerials
    Good Matches
    DA Dav3 (Falco) vs.Wes (Samus)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJi4ph92XnA
    Mathos (Falco) vs. Hugs (Samus)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtK_sj-ut1M

    /ice_____________________________________________________________________

    [highlight]Ice Climbers[/highlight]

    Falco: 50% ICs: 50%
    • Most characters have their games thrown off by the "there's f*cking 2 of them!" factor of the Ice Climbers and Falco is no exception. Most people ellect not to play falco in this matchup, instead switching to Fox, Marth, or Peach to counter the ICs, but that being said, the matchup is not terrible.
    • As always, lasers are a key to victory here. You need to disrupt their practiced desyncs and keep them off of the approaches they feel comfortable with. Also, lasers help you do what I'm about to tell you next:
    • Don't get grabbed. If you value your life, don't ever let them get a clean grab on you. They can CG if they have nana do a dair off the dthrow, or they can just Wobble you and then fthrow fsmash kill you. If just popo gets a grab on you while nana has gone AWOL, mash to get out of the grab, you can't let them get time to set up grab combos. Setting you DI isn't as important as getting the f*ck out of there before nana gets in position.
    • Two shields = different hitlag than one shield. This means that you have to change your l-cancel timing on the SHFFLed arial to shine, or you will get shield grabbed like no other. Most IC players can figure out if you know this timing or not fairly quickly, so make sure you hit your lcancels early and often.
    • Shine -> Bair is your main way of seperating the ICs. SHFFLed sex kicks lead into this nicely so use this liberally against them. Once seperated, quickly evaluate the situation: Is there any chance I can just kill popo? Is nana in an easy position to be dair spiked? Which one flew further (has higher %)? These are the questions you should ask yourself while landing from your bair. Once you've figured it all out, make an executive decision about which one to try to kill and follow through until the other one comes to their aid. In general, at low % on popo, I try to kill nana, otherwise I just try to end the life by killing popo. Again, this is a judgement call, just make the call and follow through with it.
    • IC dsmash is often lights-out for Falco as low as 50% if you don't set your DI. Watch out for ICs WDing out of shield -> dsmash after you knock them away with a dair -> shine. If you see it coming, make sure to DI up to maximize your chance of living.
    • ICs have trouble gaurding the sweetspot, but will absolutely wreck you if you go high on the recovery. Their principle edgegaurd is either dsmash or desyncing nana to Blizzard by the edge while charging fsmash with popo. Both of these will wreck you if you ever get hit, so your #1 priority should be the sweetspot on recovery, usually with the forward b rather than the up b at a downward angle (up b can be hit by the blizzard and then fsmash *****). If they notice you always sweetspotting, they'll start just doing edgehogs, at which point, you obviously have to switch it up.
    • ICs have a terrible up-down arial game. Your dair and utilt can dominate their up-down game, so make them play from the sides where you lasers give you the edge.
    • Alot of this matchup just boils down to playing smart. Pick your trades wisely. If Nana is skidding and Popo is shielding, just fsmash the ***** if she's at a high enough % and concede the grab to Popo. It's usually worth it to kill Nana if it costs you 40-50% since a single ICs only real means of wrecking you are dsmash and bair.
    • Always remember than Nana is a computer, and as such can be gimped in much the same way. She doesn't turn around or use forward b while recovering, just level 9 DJ timing, so know when it is, and laser her for easy Nana kills.
    • ICs are light and die easily to dtilt and uair/shine kills off the top. dsmash also does well in this matchup as it's good for seperating them.
    • Counterpick moving stages like Rainbow Cruise. ICs are basically unplayable on these levels.
    Good Matches
    PC Chris (Falco) vs.Chu Dat (Ice Climbers)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4eemzARjdM
    PC Chris (Falco) vs. Chu Dat (Ice Climbers)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-xybyvjmks

    /gan_____________________________________________________________________

    invertigo wrote the Ganon one with a little added from me and some paraphrasing for Wesley

    [highlight]Ganondorf[/highlight]

    Falco: 70% Ganon: 30%
    • Ganon's game is pretty simple. if you are losing to a ganon it is likely because you are getting outspaced by him.
    • Pay attention to the Ganon's habits. for example if he likes to shuffle fair -> jab dont try to shield grab. watch for shuffle jabs in general.
    • Watch out for jabs in general too they are like a slow shine, a "get off me" move with the highest knockback of any other jab
    • Play fast against him and use lasers and speed to your advantage.
    • If you are going to use lasers alot, be careful. Ganon can pop in really quick with a fair if youre caught SHLing in place. use alot of RSHL and full jumped lasers because Ganons will approach from the air most likely.
    • Fighting close up makes it harder for him because of your speed. the standard pillaring pressure works well along with jabs. be quick or he will jump out of shield and aerial you.
    • Once shined you should know what to do, its similar to most of the other characters just shine dair utilt etc.
    • He will try to come in with unexpected fairs and bairs but thats basically all he can do so dont get tricked by his movement. most of his attacks have alot of priority.
    • Edgeguarding him is simple. dairs will own him. you can try hanging onto the edge and popping up with a dair when he comes back. its like guarding a slow falcon.
    • Not that hes a good edgeguarder, but falco's recovery sucks. he will try to dair or dtilt. often times he can jump out and uair you so try to use a quick phantasm and use it unexpectedly.
    • If you get knocked down stay down and see what hes doing, dont get techchased and daired, his tech chase game is similar to Captin Falcon's, just slower
    • Watch your rolling because if he sees it coming, a dsmash will end you. if you are fighting him up close and he sees you rolling, he will dsmash ftw.
    • His dair actually has a huge hitbox I (gamer) found out last weekend after getting daired through a platform on battlefield while i was under it. So, don't underestimate if he trys to do that, and crouch under it and hope it doesn't hit you on platform stages.
    • SHL a lot because it will keep him off balance and then he'll go offensive and when you see an oppurtunity you can combo him
    • His dair will pretty much start all his combos, so avoid it especially when he's techchasing you as stated earlier.
    Good Matches
    Rob$ (Falco) vs. Joe Bushman (Ganon)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbrhTCJNVMA
    Tink (Falco) vs. Trail (Ganon)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sxo38aBcE0

    /doc_____________________________________________________________________

    And here's dr. mario done by invertigo with things added by me.

    [highlight]Dr. Mario[/highlight]

    Falco: 60% Doctor Mario: 40%
    • If at all possible try to play in a platform stage. This gives falco a huge advantage because pills are less dangerous with platforms around and it also gets rid of the chaingrab problem. Fountain of Dreams is good.
    • Avoid being grabbed by l-cancelling into shines/jabs and such. Doctor Mario's grab game is pretty deadly because of his insane bthrow and CG
    • The laser is much more effective than the pill. you just have to play smart. you need to space correctly. for example, on FD if you are getting pilled use some RSHL until you are out of range. once you hit him with a SHL he cannot get another one out unless he jumps.
    • If he does a pill from full jump you can run under it. also remember that most of the time you can aerial right through a pill. its like samus' missile priority. But, be careful because the pills give a lot more konckback than SHL. if he ful jumps a pill, the windup will end before he hits the gorund so he can hit you with it than aerial when he lands.
    • His nair gets stronger as it stays out. watch out for it.
    • If he capes the laser start SHLing closer until hes in a punishable range.
    • His edgeguarding game is alright, he can drop down from the platform with an aerial, he can use any number of ground attacks at the edge, and he can cape. i like to go over him, or sweetspot. try to be unpredictable. phantasming works well too but if you land on the ledge he can punish your lag. at the end of the phantasm if he hits you instead of turning you aruond it'll just knock you up which can lead to an fsmash from him but you can also tech out and get away. it's pretty cool lol
    • The standard combos work on him. use the shine dair utilt etc combos. watch out though because sometimes he can sex kick out.
    • Edgeguarding him is easy you can just grab the ledge. use firebird stalls to maintain invincibility and use the drop-jump-dair trick if you have to. but most of the time you can just roll on because his recovery is terrible too. lightshielding doesn't work.
    Good Matches
    Forward (Falco) vs. S-Royal (Doc)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIj9_2ai7Z8
    Shdw (Falco) vs. Zhu (Doc)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFWFuVIZKLU

    /bow_____________________________________________________________________

    [highlight]Bowser[/highlight]

    Falco: 90% Bowser: 10%
    • His get up attack from the ledge has super range and incredible priority so most bowsers will abuse it while they are below 100%. it works to knock u back off the ledge if u try to phantasm or firebird at ground level so watch out for it. the way i get around it is run to the edge and block. the attack will roll past u then come back towards the edge where you can just grab him.
    • After 100% bowser has 3 options to get up from the ledge. a ledge-hopped koopa klaw, a ledge-hopped f-air, or just ledge-hop to waveland. dont camp in ur shield bcuz the koopa klaw is a grab and he can grab from the air so try to mind game: side step the claw, block the f-air, grab if wavelands and blocks.
    • His up-b (fortress) out of shield is just as annoying as samus's and also comes out before your shine even when you l-cancel. it does less dmg but it is definitely more annoying. he can up-b then spin away from u as to avoid being punished and he can grab the edge just by spinning to it. grabs own in this matchup. shl to grab= easy dmg.
    • If you're able to land a shine dont be afraid to go for the combo. bowsers a big target so take advantage and rack up the dmg.
    • His edgeguard game is insane: f-tilts, d-tilts, fire breath, ledge wake up, f-air, b-air. all of these moves **** falco's recovery. bowser will try to f-air, or b-throw you (whether regular throw or koopa klaw) to get you off the edge. once he's off try hard to mindgame you're recovery or you're gonna find yourself dead before 50%.
    • Bowser's up-air is a godly mind game. it has such a long start up time that u can jump away and come down and still land in it. when u see bowser jump straight up below u dont jump just fast fall or hit him first. dont ever waste ur double jump on him unless ur getting a guaranteed hit.
    • stages to avoid are low ceiling stages and stages with low platforms: for example yoshi story and FoD. bowsers up-tilt, up-b, and up-smash will all kill you from under the platforms without much trouble. i personally like FD as lasers>>>bowser. Dreamland is alright if you don't mind bowser surviving alot he's not as dmg'ing there but he survives for ever.
    • Most of my kills on bowser are d-airs on his recovery... besides a dtilt at about 120%, its almost impossible to kill him up and if he knows how to DI properly ur not killing him off the sides b4 150%. try to edgehog so that he tries to go over than jump up and get him b4 he lands, his up -b has no lag if he does it in the air.
    • Without proper DI bowser has a weird chaingrab that I can't explain really because i always DI so i've yet to be caught but ive seen DJ nintendo do it on others so all i can say is DI the upthrow. also ALWAYS DI the koopa klaw as if he was throwing u back. its almost as strong as ness's back throw but alot quicker so you might find urself very far off the stage if you DI badly and the koopa klaw b-throw can kill you at 80% with no DI if it catches you offguard.
    Good Matches
    Some Falco vs. Some Bowser
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz4q5x4KvM4

    It's hard to find videos of this match-up so please help! :)
     
    Tartsono likes this.
  2. B-Will

    B-Will
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    Very nice thread gamer. If you actually go through with this and make this into an informative thread in time, I can see myself stickying this thread. I like it.

    I'll offer some input later when it isn't 7 in the morning and I have yet to go to sleep.

    Also, when are we going to finally meet up and play some smash? :laugh:
     
  3. GamerGuitarist7

    GamerGuitarist7
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    hopefully soon bwill. i was hoping to play you yesterday but you weren't on AIM or anything. Are you at Forwards today? by the way, my friend and I filmed a few matches (my Marth friend) and I'll probably have them up by the next time i talk to you so you can critique.
     
  4. invertigo

    invertigo
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    i dont think sheik can cthrow falco. mid to high percentages also avoid getting ftilted cuz thats like instant death on falco
     
  5. Mogwai

    Mogwai
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    Smash Gizmo

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    I like the general idea, but I think nonsense like SHLing a Zelda that's trying to transform shouldn't be put in these, any one competent knows how to start as Sheik. Only the truly important stuff should be put in that section, the stuff that really defines the matchups. I'm try my best here with Fox:

    Fox

    Falco - 60/55% Fox - 40/45%

    -Fox is one of the easiest characters to shine combo (the other being another falco), so if ever there's a matchup to go crazy with your waveshine comboing, this is the one. Falco can easily combo fox to ~50% from 0% off of one shine, and if Fox makes any mistakes on techs or whatnot, the combo can be extended almost to death.
    -Fox can CG Falco off of the uthrow, but this is broken around 28-30%ish if you DI up, then shine ASAP. A smart Fox will chain to 25%ish then attempt to continue the combo by using utilt, then reading your DI and grabbing again, and later will just follow DI and usmash you off the top. This form of comboing is only slightly less effective than Falco's shine comboing, so don't overestimate your combo advantage in this match.
    -Falco's Laser's stun, while Fox's don't, duh. This give Falco the edge in the longer range game, but just be wary of a shine happy Fox sending your SHLs back at you. Use the Laser to cover your approach, as Fox can fire more lasers at a distance, and doesn't mind trading damage with Falco, since the shine combos are so brutal to his health.
    -Fox is significantly faster than Falco and has a much much much better DD game. A DD camping fox should be SHLed a lot at short range to prevent DDing, especially with the brutal grab game Fox has vs. Falco.
    -Falco is a pretty easy Shine spike for Fox, so play smart while recovering. Be sure to mix up your recovery and try to avoid using up b against a good shine spiker, as you don't have fire to protect you in the early frames. If you are caught low and need to firebird up, be ready to DI the shine towards the wall, then tech so that you have a chance to live.
    -Fox has much better recovery than Falco, so while you're getting gimped, it can be a real pain to finish off Fox. Try to keep his lives as short as possible by landing dsmashes on the edgegaurd or finishing combos with fsmash, bair, or a dair over the edge. Jab -> Fsmash works somewhere in the above 100% range (120%ish I beleive) and if you find yourself unable to finish a combo with a kill move, don't hesitate to try to land a jab with a quick fsmash for the kill. Ledgehopped bair is also your best friend for killing Foxes. It's an almost sure-fire way to kill the resiliant little guy.
    -Fox will try to kill you off the top, even though Falco is fairly resiliant to verticle kills. Good DI is very important to survive as long as possible. Be ready to keep DIing away from a Fox that just uthrowed you at over 80%, as he's almost sure to try a usmash or uair for the kill. With good DI, Falco is fairly resiliant to dying off the top, which leaves gimping with shine or similar edgegaurding as Fox's main form of killing Falco. You're still going to die off the top every once in awhile, but making Fox work for his kills is the key to winning this matchup.
    -Don't try to get flashy and challenge the FH nair -> shine. This strat for Fox outprioritizes your entire approach game, so don't try challenging it, just SHL him and force him to switch it up so that you can find an opening.

    Good Match: PC Chris vs. M2K
    http://youtube.com/results?search_query=FC6+ssbm+PC+Chris+Mew2King&search=Search

    Watch the whole set, it's worth it, and really displays just about everything I'm saying.
     
  6. A-Laon

    A-Laon
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    Hmm... I might do one on marth -- would probably need some feedback on it though.
     
  7. Brookman

    Brookman
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    -If you're at high damage, avoid her dash attack at all costs. She'll dash attack you, then jump up and Fair you. Her fair is a *****. And, with Falco's bad recovery, you're most likely screwed.

    I think what you meant there was: if you're at a high percent avoid all her attacks at all costs becuase they will either kill you or set you up to be killed. There, that's better. I think you should make it a bit more serious, or formal. It doesn't even seem that well thought out. You also said to shine combo by jump cancel the shine, instead of wavedashing out of it. You can do a lot more too. For example, instead of just saying "her needles will **** you up" and then saying what to do if you get hit by them, you should explain good ways to recover so that you can avoid them all together.
     
  8. linkmastersword

    linkmastersword
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    Smash Lord

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    what's the best DI for a dash attack in case she lands one on you near the edge with 78% damage?
     
  9. Mogwai

    Mogwai
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    Smash Gizmo

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    I want to expect better of you, but I know not to

    down and away from the stage, cause you're f***ing dead, might as well speed it up.
     
  10. h1roshi

    h1roshi
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    cool thread...if you actually complete this whole project...and keep adding to your first post with all 26 characters...then this would be an auto sticky....peace

    -hiroshi
     
  11. GamerGuitarist7

    GamerGuitarist7
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    I was going to work on Marth next but feel free to throw in whatever tips you like :)
     
  12. GamerGuitarist7

    GamerGuitarist7
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    all right man, thanks for the input, i'll make some changes and add some stuff on recovering better :)
     
  13. Ryan-K

    Ryan-K
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    You forgot to mention the fact that a good fox will try to pressure the **** out of you and that if you shl the fh nair usually hits you

    you seem to be talking as if every match is on FD or something
     
  14. Mogwai

    Mogwai
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    Smash Gizmo

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    No, I'm not. You just run away, RSHL him when he's spamming FH nair. And what do you mean I'm talking as if every match is on FD? What specifically would you like changed, cause I didn't have FD in mind when writing. . ?
     
  15. Brookman

    Brookman
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    Wesley, I thought your post was much more informative than the first post (no offense intended to you GG, just I think Wes knows more about the game in general) I just have a few things to ask about. Why would a fox ever try to Dash dance vs. falco >_> unless it were for like, tech chase purposes or something...Also, GOOD fox players will want to get falco off the stage, because a firey falco is a dead falco.
     
  16. A-Laon

    A-Laon
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    Proceed. I'm probably in the better position to read and review than write it myself anyway.
     
  17. Mogwai

    Mogwai
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    This more refers to a problem I had as a n00b (and still relapse into every once in a while), where I DJ for no reason, then get DD grabbed when I land, than anything else. If you forget to SHL, sometimes they'll DD, but in general, you are correct, Fox shouldn't be DDing often in this matchup, I'm just trying to point out why he shouldn't be and remind Falco players to shut off this part of a standard Fox's game.


    Agreed, I think I covered how dead you are in a firebird, but maybe I didn't state it well enough. I'll go back and see if there's a way I can word that dynamic of the matchup better, but right now I don't have time for a revision.
     
  18. Brookman

    Brookman
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    I think people, in general, downplay the importance of recovery. Recovering is so important in this game. Being able to edge-guard well and recovery intelligently are easily the most important aspects of playing in this game. Inexperienced people will just double jump ASAP, or always just edge-hop an attack, make poor recovery decisions in general.
     
  19. GamerGuitarist7

    GamerGuitarist7
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    lol its cool man. i'm here on SWF to learn. hopefully my later matchups will be more detailed :)
     
  20. Mogwai

    Mogwai
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    Smash Gizmo

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    yup, keep trying man, I think I might go over you points on Shiek tommorow and give you my 2 cents on how to make it more informative.
     
  21. GamerGuitarist7

    GamerGuitarist7
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    k thanks man :)
     
  22. invertigo

    invertigo
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    sticky this thread please.
     
  23. Cort

    Cort
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    This thread is far from stickyable.

    *subscribes to see the funny garbage*
     
  24. GamerGuitarist7

    GamerGuitarist7
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    most of Marth is up, not done yet but at least it's started
     
  25. A-Laon

    A-Laon
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    You just had to, right? :p

    And you're welcome for the tips. If you need anything else, let me know. Marth is typically one of my better match-ups (at least until I stupidly throw myself into a needless smash / cg).
     
  26. GamerGuitarist7

    GamerGuitarist7
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    k cool. how'd i do on that marth match up so far?
     
  27. A-Laon

    A-Laon
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    The first few points were pretty much givens. Also, I wouldn't really encourage CC dtilting for kills to much, as a good Marth would know better than to risk missing a sidesmash with you that close (especially if they're at a high damage) and would instead just grab you. Then it's lights out for Falco.

    I'll play some more matches and get back to you. I never really think of what I'm doing in this match-up as it usually just flows, so it's a little hard for me to pinpoint any concrete tips for you right now.
     
  28. Brookman

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    All your information is so random and vague, definitely should get more in depth. You talk about shine to up air killing at 120, NO FALCO PLAYER WANTS TO DEAL WITH A MARTH FOR 120%!!! Talk about how to edge guard marth, if you don't know how, ****.
     
  29. DaShizWiz

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    I totally agree. Fox and Falco are dead even. And Sheik and Falco are dead even.
    Better matches to watch of Fox vs Falco would be Bombsoldier vs Jing, they are pretty much experts with their characters and **** eachother evenly. Watch that instead of PC vs M2K, PC knows how to fight Fox, on the other hand M2K is not to good at fighting Falco.

    Sheik, the comboing for doing the Dair jump out of it and then do a dair to shine only works from about 5-10 damage max if you know how to DI which isn't that hard. To tell you the honest truth, it shouldn't work at all. The only thing that should work on Sheik is the Shine jump out of it, dair, uptilt, and then dair shine and etc.

    I agree with the Marth and Falco being even almost, but I'd say marth has the upper edge.






    Believe me, I really know these match ups. I would go more into detail, but I think it'd be too much.
     
  30. Doc_Holiday

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    I need something on Captain Falcon please.
     
  31. Brookman

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    Shoot lasers. Edge hog. Done.
     
  32. Doc_Holiday

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    Okay, will do.
     
  33. GamerGuitarist7

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    Feel free to type in any tips to go under any character Shiz. You know this game wayyyyy good.
     
  34. pressthebutton

    pressthebutton
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    i think u forgot to mention the lightshield edgeguard on marth. although i remember reading on some thread that it only works in some situations(like only if marth perfectly sweetspots or something)
     
  35. Doc_Holiday

    Doc_Holiday
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    Location:
    Salem Oregon
    I think that only works with Fox. But I really have no idea.
     
  36. Brookman

    Brookman
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    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6,202
    Location:
    pikachu
    A lot of characters can light shield edge guard on marth. If the marth still has his double jump you won't be able to do it. There is a small window where marth can up b without hitting your shield and still grab the edge. If marth goes to sweet spot you will edge hog. If he up b's early edge hop back air, or stand up and downsmash.
     
  37. TheKneeOfJustice

    TheKneeOfJustice
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    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,307
    Location:
    (KoJapes) Rochester, NY
    I'm not sure if anyone said it, but...
    Against Sheik's needles during my recovery I don't try to upB immeditally after getting hit. In fact, from my experience that's the worst thing. You need to make a split second judgement call in which direction to upB, and always sweet spot it. If you overshoot it you will just get a face full of needles until you die. SWEET SPOT THE LEDGE vs Sheik.

    Also, Dtilt works nice on her for comboes.
     
  38. TheKneeOfJustice

    TheKneeOfJustice
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    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,307
    Location:
    (KoJapes) Rochester, NY
    triple post
     
  39. TheKneeOfJustice

    TheKneeOfJustice
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    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,307
    Location:
    (KoJapes) Rochester, NY
    triple post
     
  40. linkmastersword

    linkmastersword
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    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,595
    Location:
    Herndon and Newport News, Virginia
    give me some anti-peach knowledge
     

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