Character Discussion Thread

[A Distant Demon]

Real ****ing convincing argument, say this, when argued at, say "Why are you thinking people say this?" and say it again. Ike could still be unique with speed and less strength

I like how you didnt quote the part that answered you and completely ignored the first part.

This is a fighting game. In fighting games characters have various purposes. Do you see how people want heavyweights? Ike is one of those. It was decided that because of ikes strength that they would make him as such and created a character with that basis in mind. thus he takes inspiration from FE while still being an entirely unique newcomer isntead of encumbering themselves by being strict and using liberties given to them by being developers.

 

[Bill Nye]

My main problem with Ike is that it feels like the moveset came before the character. It seems that Sakurai wanted a heavy sword character, and then saw that Ike has a big sword. What makes Ike fun for me in Fire Emblem is that he does all these quick acrobatic moves while using this giant sword that can shoot shockwaves. He looks like the part for the heavy swordsman trope, but the gameplay is different. That's what's fun. I would rather Ike be a quicker fighter with a wide reach. I would want him to be more like Bowser, less like Ganondorf. That's how I'd see him as balanced and true to source.

Does anyone else think Ike's quotes are kinda strange too? I never understood the "You'll get no sympathy from me" thing because Soren was the unsympathetic one.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

So, to change the conversation, how would this E3 lineup of character make you feel.

>Wolf Trailer
>Iwata Reveals Smash Pack 1, August Relase planned, has Dreamland, Pokemon Stadium, Dr. Mario Stage, Street Fighter Stage, and Shadow Moses (Later two not revealed until trailers)
>Roy Trailer
>Iwata lets Sakurai talk
>Sakurai explains changes to Roy, Koopalings having full titles, new patch, custom moves for all new characters added in patch
>States how Stages will also be DLC, and how he hopes to add plenty down the ride that will please both Competitive and non competitive players
>states that there are two more characters in the pac, heres a trailer
>Shows Snake sneaking onto the scene,knocking out Pac Man while hearing Cambell tell him about Pac Man, then hiding in a carboard box, snake montage
>Scene expands, see Mario, Sonic, and Megaman fighting on a street, suddenly, a hadoken is fired at snake and reveals his presence, everyone shocked, with Explanation points above their heads, Snake gets into fighting stance, and then Someone jumps in front of him and punches him, snake is sent back, Ryu montage
>Finally, states that to ready the community for tourney mode, they are adding one major change to for glory, alpha mode, which makes stages battlefield, free

Thoughts?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So instead of doing something unique with a heavy swordsman make him something else. Why let canon stop a unique moveset (like ikes) from happening.

making a character interesting >making them canon.

Ike could still be unique with speed and less strength

Yup, COMPLETELY IGNORED the first part of the argument

I like how you didnt quote the part that answered you and completely ignored the first part.

This is a fighting game. In fighting games characters have various purposes. Do you see how people want heavyweights? Ike is one of those. It was decided that because of ikes strength that they would make him as such and created a character with that basis in mind. thus he takes inspiration from FE while still being an entirely unique newcomer isntead of encumbering themselves by being strict and using liberties given to them by being developers.

By saying "They did it just for the sake of adding a heavyweight" begs the question "Why not make X a heavyweight"

 

[Burruni]

Certain liberties are taken with canon. can be beaten by things other than the Master sword. isn't the size of a quarter. isn't 8 inches tall. can't shred through enemies with screw attack. Rest deals damage and doesn't heal any. doesn't have his lifespan tied to holding onto at least 1 ring. These are done in the transformation of a character into one in a fighting game and the balance that comes out of it. With any attempt in this, some characters become broken due to being too powerful and others by being almost worthless . It's a massive balancing act in a game with a dozen characters, let alone 51.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So, to change the conversation, how would this E3 lineup of character make you feel.

>Wolf Trailer
>Iwata Reveals Smash Pack 1, August Relase planned, has Dreamland, Pokemon Stadium, Dr. Mario Stage, Street Fighter Stage, and Shadow Moses (Later two not revealed until trailers)
>Roy Trailer
>Iwata lets Sakurai talk
>Sakurai explains changes to Roy, Koopalings having full titles, new patch, custom moves for all new characters added in patch
>States how Stages will also be DLC, and how he hopes to add plenty down the ride that will please both Competitive and non competitive players
>states that there are two more characters in the pac, heres a trailer
>Shows Snake sneaking onto the scene,knocking out Pac Man while hearing Cambell tell him about Pac Man, then hiding in a carboard box, snake montage
>Scene expands, see Mario, Sonic, and Megaman fighting on a street, suddenly, a hadoken is fired at snake and reveals his presence, everyone shocked, with Explanation points above their heads, Snake gets into fighting stance, and then Someone jumps in front of him and punches him, snake is sent back, Ryu montage
>Finally, states that to ready the community for tourney mode, they are adding one major change to for glory, alpha mode, which makes stages battlefield, free

Thoughts?

Only problem is if Snake was only there to trick fans, otherwise would be fully content. Though Wolf is the only real thing I care for personally

 

[A Distant Demon]

Yup, COMPLETELY IGNORED the first part of the argument

By saying "They did it just for the sake of adding a heavyweight" begs the question "Why not make X a heavyweight"

Because x doesnt fit the bill? Because x is not an all star? Because x isnt popular? Because people prefer zero to x

What is your point?

So, to change the conversation, how would this E3 lineup of character make you feel.

>Wolf Trailer
>Iwata Reveals Smash Pack 1, August Relase planned, has Dreamland, Pokemon Stadium, Dr. Mario Stage, Street Fighter Stage, and Shadow Moses (Later two not revealed until trailers)
>Roy Trailer
>Iwata lets Sakurai talk
>Sakurai explains changes to Roy, Koopalings having full titles, new patch, custom moves for all new characters added in patch
>States how Stages will also be DLC, and how he hopes to add plenty down the ride that will please both Competitive and non competitive players
>states that there are two more characters in the pac, heres a trailer
>Shows Snake sneaking onto the scene,knocking out Pac Man while hearing Cambell tell him about Pac Man, then hiding in a carboard box, snake montage
>Scene expands, see Mario, Sonic, and Megaman fighting on a street, suddenly, a hadoken is fired at snake and reveals his presence, everyone shocked, with Explanation points above their heads, Snake gets into fighting stance, and then Someone jumps in front of him and punches him, snake is sent back, Ryu montage
>Finally, states that to ready the community for tourney mode, they are adding one major change to for glory, alpha mode, which makes stages battlefield, free

Thoughts?

Stages? Snake? Wolf?

10/10

 

[Wintropy]

@ Cutie Gwen , it doesn't matter a damn if Ike isn't totally accurate to the source material. That would be incredibly dull, not to mention broken in the context of the game.

You're making this a much bigger deal than it needs to be. Not to be condescending or anything, but I really think you ought to back up a bit and chill out before getting involved in arguments of this caliber.

Incidentally, with regards to Shulk's Monado Arts? Buster, because it sounds like it'd do what it does. Enchant could be anything.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Because x doesnt fit the bill? Because x is not an all star? Because x isnt popular? Because people prefer zero to x

What is your point?

Stages? Snake? Wolf?

10/10

What I meant was 'why not make this character we are developing a heavyweight for the sake of heavyweight' Either you missed that or I should sleep now
EDIT:
Wintropy you JUST said a move that boost stats canonically shouldn't have that role because names. I'm ****ing done with your ****

 

[the king of murder]

Guys, Ike is not even slow in Smash 4. http://smashboards.com/threads/smas...s-and-values-now-with-raw-real-values.383217/

Ike has faster air speed than Marth and similar landing lag as him as well. His aerials can auto cancel which means he is faster than he first appears. He also has a lot of quick and powerful moves, Bair, Jab, Dtilt to name a few. He is powerful and quick just like in his games. Blue flame also accurately represents Yunes blessing. His style is honest, simple and brutish which fits Ike as well.

My main problem with Ike is that it feels like the moveset came before the character. It seems that Sakurai wanted a heavy sword character, and then saw that Ike has a big sword. What makes Ike fun for me in Fire Emblem is that he does all these quick acrobatic moves while using this giant sword that can shoot shockwaves. He looks like the part for the heavy swordsman trope, but the gameplay is different. That's what's fun. I would rather Ike be a quicker fighter with a wide reach. I would want him to be more like Bowser, less like Ganondorf. That's how I'd see him as balanced and true to source.

Does anyone else think Ike's quotes are kinda strange too? I never understood the "You'll get no sympathy from me" thing because Soren was the unsympathetic one.

I am not exactly sure where but he does say that he will show no mercy on the battlefield even to former allies(I think it was Radiant Dawn).

What I meant was 'why not make this character we are developing a heavyweight for the sake of heavyweight' Either you missed that or I should sleep now
EDIT:
Wintropy you JUST said a move that boost stats canonically shouldn't have that role because names. I'm ****ing done with your ****

Seriously man calm the **** down. It is just a discussion for fun here.

 

[Wintropy]

Wintropy you JUST said a move that boost stats canonically shouldn't have that role because names. I'm ****ing done with your ****

Swing and a miss, sweetheart.

Enchant is a move that does extra damage to Mechon: specifically, the move is designed to inflict extra damage on a particular class of enemy. In this context, the class of the enemy predicates the fact that it enhances the damage dealt. Ergo, Enchant is a move whose use is dependent on the nature of the enemy, not on the fact that it does extra damage.

Buster, on the other hand, is a move that does damage. That is the crux of its purpose, and the essential predicate of its use is doing damage.

So tell me: why should a move based on exploiting the nature of an enemy take precedence over a move whose entire effect is to cause damage, considering the purpose of the power based on said Art is to do damage? Unless Buster in Smash has the express effect of allowing more damage to be accrued by the opponent because of their respective species or physical makeup, I think the move that's designed to do damage in the first instance should take priority here.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Swing and a miss, sweetheart.

Enchant is a move that does extra damage to Mechon: specifically, the move is designed to inflict extra damage on a particular class of enemy. In this context, the class of the enemy predicates the fact that it enhances the damage dealt. Ergo, Enchant is a move whose use is dependent on the nature of the enemy, not on the fact that it does extra damage.

Buster, on the other hand, is a move that does damage. That is the crux of its purpose, and the essential predicate of its use is doing damage.

So tell me: why should a move based on exploiting the nature of an enemy take precedence over a move whose entire effect is to cause damage, considering the purpose of the power based on said Art is to do damage? Unless Buster in Smash has the express effect of allowing more damage to be accrued by the opponent because of their respective species or physical makeup, I think the move that's designed to do damage in the first instance should take priority here.

Shulk being able to damage non Mechon in smash shows how the Mechon requirement means absolutely NOTHING! Monado I can't hurt humans, Shulk uses the Monado I in smash, Enchant shouldn't be that big of a deal

 

[A Distant Demon]

What I meant was 'why not make this character we are developing a heavyweight for the sake of heavyweight' Either you missed that or I should sleep now
EDIT:
Wintropy you JUST said a move that boost stats canonically shouldn't have that role because names. I'm ****ing done with your ****

Yeah i would continue this but you clearly need to calm down.

Ending this here and i wpuld hope no one will try to rile her up.

 

[MagnesD3]

Y'know why Ike is a heavyweight fighter?

Because he wields a big ****ing sword.

Ragnell is a two-handed sword by design, but Ike wields it in one hand: this isn't just because he's strong and in good shape, it's because his father taught him to fight with an axe. Ike is an axe fighter by pedigree, he doesn't know how to fight with a sword in the same way that Marth or Link would. He wields his sword like he would an axe: swinging it, chopping it, cleaving it and letting the weight of the sword carry itself. He doesn't thrust or slash, he just pops the sword into the air and lets gravity take over. You aren't gonna say much in the way of formalities when there's four feet of solid steel splitting your skull open like the wrath of the heavens.

Could Ike be super-fast and agile like he is in Radiant Dawn? Probably, but that would totally upset the balance of the game. Having a character that hits like a truck and can outrun Captain Falcon is just asking to break the game; unless you want to go down the route of making him Little Mac, which is unbalanced in a whole 'nother way. The trick with Ike is that he's heavy because his sword is ****ing heavy: it's basically an axe with longer range and a narrower blade. The principle, how and ever, remains the same: swing and splatter. Even taking game balance out of the picture, Ike is a heavyweight because the game could do with more heavyweights; not everybody has to be a glass cannon lightning bruiser, otherwise we'd be playing Captain Falcon Fisticuffs All-Star Battle Royale Melee Mk II, not Super Smash Bros.

Ike doesn't need to have CF speed but he definately should be a faster character.

 

[the king of murder]

Ike doesn't need to have CF speed but he definately should be a faster character.

I will repeat myself again

Ike is not even slow in Smash 4. http://smashboards.com/threads/smas...s-and-values-now-with-raw-real-values.383217/

Ike has faster air speed than Marth and similar landing lag as him as well. His aerials can auto cancel which means he is faster than he first appears. He also has a lot of quick and powerful moves, Bair, Jab, Dtilt to name a few. He is powerful and quick just like in his games. Blue flame also accurately represents Yunes blessing. His style is honest, simple and brutish which fits Ike as well.

Anyone who plays Ike competitively and knows him in-depth can verify this.

 

[Wintropy]

Shulk being able to damage non Mechon in smash shows how the Mechon requirement means absolutely NOTHING! Monado I can't hurt humans, Shulk uses the Monado I in smash, Enchant shouldn't be that big of a deal

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying.

I'm saying that the reason why Enchant would be a sub-optimal choice of reference for his Monado Art is the fact that, in the source material, the move is based on the fact that the opponent is a Mechon: it only damages them because they are of that particular class of enemy. It would be the same if Enchant did extra damage to rabbits or cabbages: the point is, by its very nature, it is predicated on the class of the enemy, not on the fact that it does damage.

Buster is a move designed to do damage. That's what it does in Smash.

Now get some rest.

 

[Frostwraith]

Jeez, so much commotion regarding fictional characters.

Aren't you guys forgetting that Nintendo pretty much approved Sakurai's decisions in regards to their characters?

Any game designer knows that liberties must sometimes be taken in order to make a well designed game.

Sometimes only certain qualities of a character suit whatever design they want for said character.

This trope sums up this discussion: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameplayAndStorySegregation

 

[MagnesD3]

I will repeat myself again

Ike is not even slow in Smash 4. http://smashboards.com/threads/smas...s-and-values-now-with-raw-real-values.383217/

Ike has faster air speed than Marth and similar landing lag as him as well. His aerials can auto cancel which means he is faster than he first appears. He also has a lot of quick and powerful moves, Bair, Jab, Dtilt to name a few. He is powerful and quick just like in his games. Blue flame also accurately represents Yunes blessing. His style is honest, simple and brutish which fits Ike as well.

Anyone who plays Ike competitively and knows him in-depth can verify this.

I saw, I read, I still want Ike to be faster on the ground cuz dat boi is booty.

 

[Spinosaurus]

My main problem with Ike is that it feels like the moveset came before the character. It seems that Sakurai wanted a heavy sword character, and then saw that Ike has a big sword. What makes Ike fun for me in Fire Emblem is that he does all these quick acrobatic moves while using this giant sword that can shoot shockwaves. He looks like the part for the heavy swordsman trope, but the gameplay is different. That's what's fun. I would rather Ike be a quicker fighter with a wide reach. I would want him to be more like Bowser, less like Ganondorf. That's how I'd see him as balanced and true to source.

Does anyone else think Ike's quotes are kinda strange too? I never understood the "You'll get no sympathy from me" thing because Soren was the unsympathetic one.

Ike hardly feels like a heavy character in this game to me. He actually feels like a sword character with an amazing air game.

Marth is actually laggier lol.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying.

I'm saying that the reason why Enchant would be a sub-optimal choice of reference for his Monado Art is the fact that, in the source material, the move is based on the fact that the opponent is a Mechon: it only damages them because they are of that particular class of enemy. It would be the same if Enchant did extra damage to rabbits or cabbages: the point is, by its very nature, it is predicated on the class of the enemy, not on the fact that it does damage.

Buster is a move designed to do damage. That's what it does in Smash.

Now get some rest.

The argument that Enchant only works on Mechon is nonexistent as Shulk shouldn't be able to hurt the humans of the cast. I was postponing my sleep as I can't stand leaving an argument, it's a pride thing I guess

 

[Wintropy]

The argument that Enchant only works on Mechon is nonexistent as Shulk shouldn't be able to hurt the humans of the cast. I was postponing my sleep as I can't stand leaving an argument, it's a pride thing I guess

You're missing my point again.

It doesn't matter what effect the Monado has on Mechon or any other entities in the source material: the point is that Enchant is designed to only affect a certain class of enemy. If it was a move that universally boosts the attack stat for a certain duration, I would say that, yeah, it'd make sense for Shulk to use Enchant in Smash. Its effect is actually predicated on the fact that its target is of a certain class, whereas Buster is a universal damage-dealer that is not based and whose effect is not predicated on the essential nature of the opponent. That's the key distinction. And that's that.

 

[Frostwraith]

Does anyone else think Ike's quotes are kinda strange too? I never understood the "You'll get no sympathy from me" thing because Soren was the unsympathetic one.

Ike's quotes in English are the unfortunate consequence of poor translation.

Some of Lucina's quotes in English sound out-of-character as well because they were translated literally without considering the tone. (I'm referring to her quotes against Marth and Ike. She sounds in awe in the Japanese version, while the English dub has her sound arrogant and condescending.)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You're missing my point again.

It doesn't matter what effect the Monado has on Mechon or any other entities in the source material: the point is that Enchant is designed to only affect a certain class of enemy. If it was a move that universally boosts the attack stat for a certain duration, I would say that, yeah, it'd make sense for Shulk to use Enchant in Smash. Its effect is actually predicated on the fact that its target is of a certain class, whereas Buster is a universal damage-dealer that is not based and whose effect is not predicated on the essential nature of the opponent. That's the key distinction. And that's that.

Marth's Falchion functions more like a Rapier when applied to FE logic, not to mention the Falchion doesn't deal extra damage to the non human cast, that's my argument with that

 

[the king of murder]

I saw, I read, I still want Ike to be faster on the ground cuz dat boi is booty.

Subjective, considering that there is still no established tier list. Ike feels like a balanced but powerful character to me competitive speaking.

If he would be faster on the ground and the air he would be way too broken because he has a very good combo game(for a hard hitter)+kill power=tiers?more like tears.

If you mean the casual level, I can tell you that everyone is booty in the casual level except Mac.

 

[Wintropy]

Marth's Falchion functions more like a Rapier when applied to FE logic, not to mention the Falchion doesn't deal extra damage to the non human cast, that's my argument with that

I'm going to be honest, I have no idea what you're even saying anymore.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm going to be honest, I have no idea what you're even saying anymore.

Shield Breaker is a move that penetrates defenses. Rapiers do bonus damage to heavily armoured units, the Falchion deals extra damage to enemies such as dragons or wyverns. Marth's sword is the Falchion in smash but it functions like a Rapier

 

[Wintropy]

Yeah, okay, because this argument is going to carry on indefinitely until it's stopped:

Sure, okay. I concede your point.

 

[MagnesD3]

Subjective, considering that there is still no established tier list. Ike feels like a balanced but powerful character to me competitive speaking.

If he would be faster on the ground and the air he would be way too broken because he has a very good combo game(for a hard hitter)+kill power=tiers?more like tears.

If you mean the casual level, I can tell you that everyone is booty in the casual level except Mac.

Ike is pretty bad competitively man. That man will never win a tournament unless it's project m where he is actually very good. Ike will need buffs if he is to ever be competitive. A walk/run speed buff won't make him broken at all.

 

[Deathlightning21]

Ike is pretty bad competitively man. That man will never win a tournament unless it's project m where he is actually very good. Ike will need buffs if he is to ever be competitive. A walk/run speed buff won't make him broken at all.

I happen to disagree, Ike is great in competitive play if you know what to do.

But what can you expect from the narrow minded who rely on others opinions to win

 

[MagnesD3]

I happen to disagree, Ike is great in competitive play if you know what to do.

But what can you expect from the narrow minded who rely on others opinions to win

I feel like Ive missed something.. Anywho Ike with a faster walk speed would improve his footsie game and that would go a long way to at least making him slightly better competitively, right now though he is pretty bad, good luck if you take Ike to a tourney.

 

[Pakky]

Ridley for smash because Sakurai is full of half truths?

 

[A10theHero]

How 'bout Spyro? That purple dragon is not too big for Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

To sum things up... We had an argument about Ganondorf's moveset, and an argument about the creative liberties with Ike (By someone who mains a Pokémon. The series where creative liberties are taken with every playable character.) So now. Lets talk about something that isn't criticizing a character's moveset.

How about we all come up with a unique gimmick, and then try to place it with a character. (Smash worthy, or otherwise.)
For Example: Someone who has invincibility frames, but is somewhat laggy because of it. This could belong to King Boo because he is a ghost. He could phase out, and then attack upon reentry. I think this could allow him to play some mind games as well (I'm no expert, so I don't know).

 

[Deathlightning21]

To sum things up... We had an argument about Ganondorf's moveset, and an argument about the creative liberties with Ike (By someone who mains a Pokémon. The series where creative liberties are taken with every playable character.) So now. Lets talk about something that isn't criticizing a character's moveset.

How about we all come up with a unique gimmick, and then try to place it with a character. (Smash worthy, or otherwise.)
For Example: Someone who has invincibility frames, but is somewhat laggy because of it. This could belong to King Boo because he is a ghost. He could phase out, and then attack upon reentry. I think this could allow him to play some mind games as well (I'm no expert, so I don't know).

I think they might do something like that for Gengar in Pokken Fighters.

 

[Burruni]

To sum things up... We had an argument about Ganondorf's moveset, and an argument about the creative liberties with Ike (By someone who mains a Pokémon. The series where creative liberties are taken with every playable character.) So now. Lets talk about something that isn't criticizing a character's moveset.

How about we all come up with a unique gimmick, and then try to place it with a character. (Smash worthy, or otherwise.)
For Example: Someone who has invincibility frames, but is somewhat laggy because of it. This could belong to King Boo because he is a ghost. He could phase out, and then attack upon reentry. I think this could allow him to play some mind games as well (I'm no expert, so I don't know).

Someone who makes their foes gets debuffs (with minor aides to keep balanced) in a way that's like an inverted Monado Arts.
Who? Ashley from Warioware. My moveset from like 2 days ago

Insert Rhythm Heaven character because rhythm gimmick.

A SPEAR BECAUSE NOBODY IN SMASH USES ONE. BANDANA DEE. xD

 

[Ura]

You must have lived in a cave.

Totally dude. Because I didn't know about the existence of a video game character.

 

[A10theHero]

Totally dude. Because I didn't know about the existence of a video game character.

Wait, how can you be using the internet from a cave?

 

[Burruni]

Ridley for smash because Sakurai is full of half truths?

"Please bare in mind that certain character threads were locked after the games release since they were seen as not being justifiable support threads (examples include Dark Samus, Isabelle, and Ridley) as they are already included in the game. This rule is still in effect so do not make a thread for a character whose support thread was previously locked." - Venus of the Desert Bloom, the top pinned discussion thread listed as FORUM RULES:
Character Discussion Guidelines: DLC, Socials, & Ridley.

 

[Ura]

Wait, how can you be using the internet from a cave?

Because the Wi-Fi in this cave lets me access any website except for sites relating to Rayman apparently.

 

[Kalimdori]

"Please bare in mind that certain character threads were locked after the games release since they were seen as not being justifiable support threads (examples include Dark Samus, Isabelle, and Ridley) as they are already included in the game. This rule is still in effect so do not make a thread for a character whose support thread was previously locked." - Venus of the Desert Bloom, the top pinned discussion thread listed as FORUM RULES:
Character Discussion Guidelines: DLC, Socials, & Ridley.

He wasn't asking for a thread...