Character Discussion Thread

[N3ON]

The funny thing is ST Link and WW/PH Link aren't even the same Link.

 

[NickerBocker]

If we're strictly on the subject of confirmed veterans, then I want Sonic's Homing Attack to be as useful as it is in his games.

If we're talking about all veterans, then Ganondorf ditching Captain Falcon's moveset for a sword is inevitable.

Ya were talking all veterans.

I noticed that Links moves were changed a little bit, looks like it reflects his games more. Same with most veterans it seems. Ive noticed a some moves have changed effects, seems to be working more towards spiking and offstage gimps, like Links dair getting the meteor effect in the sweet spot, and Pikachu getting the meteor effect with his down b. Seems theres gonna be some interesting changes this time around

Anyways...

I would say Ganondorf is pretty inevitable to change a little more. doesn't really need to be anything too drastic, i actually like the warlock punch and the choke slam a lot, really shows that he is truly the power section of the triforce. His Up B could use a little rework, and his down b should be changed to Dead mans volley. There are other things as well that should be changed i suppose.


Who do i want to be reworked? So many choices, but i have 2 for different circumstances.

Zelda needs more priority and power on her attacks, similar to what they did with her in Project M. Hse just needs some stat changes and she will be fine.

The one who I want to have an overhaul, besides the obvious Ganondorf, would definitely be Falco. He needs to really define himself this time around. They moved in the right direction with Brawl, but i think some specials need to be changed, because it is getting kind of redundant. Wolf is good, he represents a dirty fighting version of Fox, rightfully so. There's plenty that they could pull from games like Assault that could be integrated. What these would be exactly, im unsure of, but Im certain that there are some good options (I only played assault briefly.) Oh ya, and CHANGE HIS FINAL SMASH! This may be why theyve been holding out on revealing him this time, he may be getting some changes.

Other veterans could be changed up a bit, like Jigglypuff, Sonic, TLink, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

Can't wait to be Waluigi fighting against three other Waluigis and summon Waluigi from an AT.

 

[?????????????]

Can't wait to be Waluigi fighting against three other Waluigis and summon Waluigi from an AT.

Not to mention the Waluig's Island stage with Waluigi as a boss.

 

[Sausage Zeldas]

That, I don't have an answer for, cause I myself don't see the point when it's already possible to have 4 Toon Links fighting each other on any stage.

It's likely to avoid possible confusion.

The funny thing is ST Link and WW/PH Link aren't even the same Link.

That's been pointed out a few times, and gives less credibility to the idea of having Other M Ridley as a stage boss and Super Metroid Ridley as a fighter.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Actually, it doesn't seem exclusive to Toon Link.
There's a pic of Alfonzo where Toon Link is not one of the four fighters.

I'm guessing it's random weather it's Link or Alfonzo, but it's always set to Alfonzo when Toon Link's on the playing on the field.

 

[Deleted member]

Not to mention the Waluig's Island stage with Waluigi as a boss.

Yup, Super Waluigi Bros. Wii U/3DS will sure be fun.

 

[Sebz]

Time for a little bit of math:
So far we have 29 characters on the roster.
23 are veterans (counting Sheik and ZSS) and 6 are newcomers.
Assuming the leaks are true, and they have been right so far, that means we have at least 6 more newcomers to come.
Also, assuming every every character returns (except for Snake and Ivysaur/Squirtle), that means we have 13 veterans that have yet to appear.

This would mean that, without any other addition, the roster will have 48 character slots.

Do you think the roster will stretch beyond this limit? If so how many more newcomers? Assuming Leaks are true, we'll have a total of 12 newcomers.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yup, Super Waluigi Bros. Wii U/3DS will sure be fun.

Waninja > Little Wa > Waga Man > Warosalina & Wama > Wa Fit Trainer.

This is fact.

 

[NickerBocker]

I'm guessing it's random weather it's Link or Alfonzo, but it's always set to Alfonzo when Toon Link's on the playing on the field.

I was thinking, maybe, that they switched out during the match. For example, Alfonzo is out there for a minute, then he walks into the engine, and then Conductor Link emerges for some time, then goes back in after a while, Alfonzo emerges, rinse and repeat. Just a theory.

 

[Deleted member]

Waninja > Little Wa > Waga Man > Warosalina & Wama > Wa Fit Trainer.

This is fact.

Greninja is obviously Waluigi in disguise.

 

[Sausage Zeldas]

Waninja > Little Wa > Waga Man > Warosalina & Wama > Wa Fit Trainer.

This is fact.

And you can't forget Wari–oh, wait...

 

[NickerBocker]

Time for a little bit of math:
So far we have 29 characters on the roster.
23 are veterans (counting Sheik and ZSS) and 6 are newcomers.
Assuming the leaks are true, and they have been right so far, that means we have at least 6 more newcomers to come.
Also, assuming every every character returns (except for Snake and Ivysaur/Squirtle), that means we have 13 veterans that have yet to appear.

This would mean that, without any other addition, the roster will have 48 character slots.

Do you think the roster will stretch beyond this limit? If so how many more newcomers? Assuming Leaks are true, we'll have a total of 12 newcomers.

Sounds about right. I don't think it will go over 50, but no less than 45. Also, consider:

64 - 12
Melee - 26 - 14 additions (some being clones)
Brawl - 39 - 4/5 cuts (depending on your interpretation of TLink) - 17/18 additions (quality grossly reduced)
Smash 4 - 52? - 2 cuts (Squirtle, Ivysaur) - 15 additions

It probably wont be 52, Sakurai addressed the size of the roster at E3, and said it was getting pretty close to the limit. Also, were getting to the point where they will either have to introduce newer characters (which i would expect) or theyd be really scrapping the bottom of the barrel. With that, i think we wont get over 50. 13 newcomers sounds pretty reasonable, and there may be more space created over time from cuts as well.

 

[TheTuninator]

Sounds about right. I don't think it will go over 50, but no less than 45. Also, consider:

64 - 12
Melee - 26 - 14 additions (some being clones)
Brawl - 39 - 4/5 cuts (depending on your interpretation of TLink) - 17/18 additions (quality grossly reduced)
Smash 4 - 52? - 2 cuts (Squirtle, Ivysaur) - 15 additions

It probably wont be 52, Sakurai addressed the size of the roster at E3, and said it was getting pretty close to the limit. Also, were getting to the point where they will either have to introduce newer characters (which i would expect) or theyd be really scrapping the bottom of the barrel. With that, i think we wont get over 50. 13 newcomers sounds pretty reasonable, and there may be more space created over time from cuts as well.

Nintendo could add 50 newcomers and still not be scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Sebz]

Sounds about right. I don't think it will go over 50, but no less than 45. Also, consider:

64 - 12
Melee - 26
Brawl - 39
Smash 4 - 52?

It probably wont be 52, Sakurai addressed the size of the roster at E3, and said it was getting pretty close to the limit. Also, were getting to the point where they will either have to introduce newer characters (which i would expect) or theyd be really scrapping the bottom of the barrel. With that, i think we wont get over 50.

I believe that the separation of Sheik and ZSS would indeed allow for that 52 to become a reality. If this were the case, it would equate to 16 newcomers. In my opinion the last 4 spots would be something like : K. Rool / Pokemon Rep / Blank / Blank/

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

The funny thing is ST Link and WW/PH Link aren't even the same Link.

That was the point I was trying to make, why would they not be ok with having two different Links as a background character and a playable one at the same time, yet be ok with two different Ridley's being a boss character and a playable one at the same time? Another thing that would be weird is having a big Ridley and a small one in the same game, like why would Other M Ridley be huge and (let's say) Super Metroid Ridley be small? I seriously doubt Ridley is playable.

 

[Deleted member]

Some seem to cling to the "Other M Ridley is a clone; we can still have the original!" logic.
The answer is Yes and No.
Theoretically, we could. But considering in the Smash universe, the original was killed, revived as Meta Ridley, killed again, revived twice as both states again, and killed twice more.
That just leaves one last option that thanks to Dark Samus showing up as an Assist, is completely viable....

Spoiler

Omega Ridley!

 

[NickerBocker]

Nintendo could add 50 newcomers and still not be scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Very true. So many IPs. Also, if they get desperate, they can start adding more 3rd parties. There's plenty that have good association with Nintendo, and who wouldn't want their character in Mash (Other than the guy who makes Bayonetta.

I believe that the separation of Sheik and ZSS would indeed allow for that 52 to become a reality. If this were the case, it would equate to 16 newcomers. In my opinion the last 4 spots would be something like : K. Rool / Pokemon Rep / Blank / Blank/

Ya it is very possible. I think it is really dependent on the number of cuts we will get, which seems like it will indeed be kept to minimum. I mean, we got TL back pretty early, so that made me pretty optimistic, as i thought he would be overlooked. Lucario was on the chopping block as well, and he showed up. Pokemon Trainer is gone, and i assume that means Squirtle and Ivysaur are gone too, although if one of them shows up, both of them will most likely show up. Realistically, that leaves Snake, Lucas, Ike, Jiggs(?), ROB(?) and Wolf(?). at its worst, thats only 6 more cuts, but i think of that small list, there would only be one or two getting the boot. I think by cutting Pokemon Trainer, being such a difficult addition to balance, that it opens plenty of options for other characters to either come back or be introduced.

 

[N3ON]

That's been pointed out a few times, and gives less credibility to the idea of having Other M Ridley as a stage boss and Super Metroid Ridley as a fighter.

Not really.... if two characters who are literally the same person can coexist on screen at the same time without there being multiples of the same character, one character who is actually different than another being swapped out doesn't really prove much of anything...

That was the point I was trying to make, why would they not be ok with having two different Links as a background character and a playable one at the same time, yet be ok with two different Ridley's being a boss character and a playable one at the same time?

Considering Adult Link doesn't swap out Conductor Link, one would surmise it's probably due to avoiding confusion. And unless Sakurai used the same Ridley appearance as both boss and character, confusion between them seems a lot less likely.

The point remains that we have one character in armor fighting herself without armor, and one fighting another facet of herself, yet these are different, individual characters as far as Smash is concerned. Seems the same character can exist more than once on screen at the same time.

Another thing that would be weird is having a big Ridley and a small one in the same game, like why would Other M Ridley be huge and (let's say) Super Metroid Ridley be small? I seriously doubt Ridley is playable.

We had big Link and small Link in the same game in Melee, and they were literally the same Link; yet both were playable. Can't Bowser fight Giga Bowser in Melee? One is a huge scary boss version of the other.

I'm not saying Ridley is definitely playable, I don't think he will be anymore - I think Sakurai is one of those who doesn't find him feasible - but I also don't think we can count him out.
And I'm not even a Ridley supporter.

 

[AEMehr]

Some seem to cling to the "Other M Ridley is a clone; we can still have the original!" logic.
The answer is Yes and No.
Theoretically, we could. But considering in the Smash universe, the original was killed, revived as Meta Ridley, killed again, revived twice as both states again, and killed twice more.
That just leaves one last option that thanks to Dark Samus showing up as an Assist, is completely viable....

Spoiler

Omega Ridley!

Or he could just be revived again as Waluridley.

 

[?????????????]

That's all I think. Ridley isn't definitely out yet, and until he is, I see no point removing him from my roster.

 

[Kenith]

That's all I think. Ridley isn't definitely out yet, and until he is, I see no point removing him from my roster.

I'm somewhat the opposite. I don't think we can count him just yet, but I'm cutting him from my predictions because I really don't like to think I could be wrong.

 

[NickerBocker]

Until i physically see him as not playable, and it is clearly stated, then i will not be convinced that he is deconfirmed. We can't jump to conclusions, as much as we would like to.

 

[?????????????]

I'm somewhat the opposite. I don't think we can count him just yet, but I'm cutting him from my predictions because I really don't like to think I could be wrong.

I see. I've had characters on my roster I was sure I would be wrong on, such as Paper Mario and Meowth...simply out of desire for the character.

 

[Sebz]

Wii U Gamepad will allow a single player to control Boss Characters such as Yellow Devil and Ridley.
Sakurai: "I heard people wanted to play as Ridley, well, here you go!!!"

 

[Sausage Zeldas]

We had big Link and small Link in the same game in Melee, and they were literally the same Link; yet both were playable. Can't Bowser fight Giga Bowser in Melee? One is a huge scary boss version of the other.

All of the time travel antics that happened then made a lot of things possible for the Hero of Time.
Bowser/Giga Bowser is actually applicable, though.

I personally won't mind either way. I feel like if Ridley does end up being implemented, he'll either be overpowered or disappointingly weak.

 

[Kenith]

Or he could just be revived again as Waluridley.

I'm rooting for Ridley Lombardi, personally.

Spoiler

He prefers the air.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

That's all I think. Ridley isn't definitely out yet, and until he is, I see no point removing him from my roster.

I see. I've had characters on my roster I was sure I would be wrong on, such as Paper Mario and Meowth...simply out of desire for the character.

Seeing how your roster is a wish roster I see no problem in that. Though I'm surprised you considered cutting Mewtwo over Jigglypuff before despite Mewtwo being your favorite Pokemon and you not likely Jigglypuff.

 

[?????????????]

Seeing how your roster is a wish roster I see no problem in that. Though I'm surprised you considered cutting Mewtwo over Jigglypuff before despite Mewtwo being your favorite Pokemon and you not likely Jigglypuff.

I try to keep my roster reasonable, even if it is a wish roster. At this point, I see no reason to doubt that Jigglypuff will return, but enough reason to think Mewtwo might not. Just my opinion on that matter.

For me, it boiled down to if I wanted to have more Pokemon characters than Mario, or add another Mario character.

 

[Kenith]

I try to keep my roster reasonable, even if it is a wish roster. At this point, I see no reason to doubt that Jigglypuff will return, but enough reason to think Mewtwo might not. Just my opinion on that matter.

For me, it boiled down to if I wanted to have more Pokemon characters than Mario, or add another Mario character.

As has been shown many times before, Pokemon has had more characters than Mario before, and Sakurai doesnt consider transforming characters the same character.

 

[MagnesD3]

Jiggily is safe cuz she is so easy to make, I kinda feel thats why t link was safe but idk, maybe sakurai is changing both of them a bunch.

 

[?????????????]

As has been shown many times before, Pokemon has had more characters than Mario before, and Sakurai doesnt consider transforming characters the same character.

That's why I ultimately felt okay with having more Pokemon "slots" than Mario ones, though not everyone agrees with me on that.

 

[N3ON]

That's why I ultimately felt okay with having more Pokemon "slots" than Mario ones, though not everyone agrees with me on that.

Before Rosalina some people also thought "the big three" couldn't go over four each with none of them remembering the Mario series in Melee. People tend to think a lot of odd things....

 

[Baskerville]

I'm just 50/50 on Ridley at this point.
@ N3ON It's really just some silly rules some fans make to try and justify roster slots. Like Pokemon getting more characters than Mario and Zelda isn't so farfetched.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Sakurai did say that they're thinking about adding Mewtwo and that they take who the hot Pokemon is at the time into heavy consideration, and now that Mewtwo has become a lot more relevant and popular recently I can't see why Jigglypuff would be added and not Mewtwo this time. I'm sure he'd be higher priority this time around.

 

[PurpleSpaceDragon]

I'm completely convinced that Ridley will in fact be playable.

Here's my logic:

1) Sakurai has never acted intentionally mean towards, or taunted, Smash fans. All of his so-called "trolls", such as the pseudo-Palutena trophy and the Zero Suit Samus disconfirmation fakeout, turned, or will turn, disappointing news into good news:

• Everyone considers Palutena to be a shoe-in at this point, so the trophy fakeout was just a tease where Sakurai was basically saying, "Ha, I bet you thought I was going to show Palutena in SSB4 for the first time! Nope!" He knows that just about everyone knows she'll be playable, and that everyone wants to see her. So as long as he eventually brings good news to the fans (a playable Palutena, which will certainly happen), this bait and switch will in retrospect be viewed as a simple and goodhearted prank.

• With the Zamus prank, it only took a few seconds for him to say "nah, she's back and better than ever!"
• All of his other jokes have been lighthearted, and only unreasonable people thought that the Waluigi thing was a cruel taunt at Waluigi's supporters.

2) With Ridley, Sakurai knows that Smash fans, for as long as Ridley isn't explicitly acknowledged in a direct quote from Sakurai to be a boss/hazard and nothing else, will expect that his crypticness regarding Ridley and the way he dances around Ridley's role in Smash 4 is just another one of Sakurai's "make it look bad at first, then reveal it as good and cause hype" pranks.

3) Sakurai knows that the fans are on pins and needles waiting to find out if Ridley is a playable character in SSB4. He also knows that Ridley is requested more than anyone save Mewtwo worldwide.

4) Therefore, Sakurai knows that we (the massive group of Ridley fans) will stay hopeful and expect Ridley to be playable as long as Sakurai keeps up the crypticness, just as he knows that Palutena's fans will stay hyped for as long as he teases things like the trophy takeout, Palutena's Temple, the PotD of the 3 goddesses (Viridi, Rosalina, Zelda) on the night of the Palutena leak, etc. Sakurai also knows that we will be very upset if Ridley ultimately does end up as non-playable. Sakurai also knows that we, the fans, will think poorly of his character if the ultimate outcome of all of this is that Ridley isn't playable. He knows that we expect him to treat fans and their wishes with respect.

Sakurai is a goodnatured, smart and logical guy. He doesn't want the fans to be upset, and, moreover, doesn't want the fans to be mad at him for cruelly stringing them along all this time.

Therefore, he wouldn't treat Ridley as such a mystery (his enigmatic comment for the Pyrosphere reveal pic of the day, showing just Ridley's shadow, showing dozens of Pyrosphere pics with no Ridley, etc) for so long without ultimately giving fans what they want: playable Ridley.

To sum it up, Sakurai is as much aware of the current meta-environment surrounding the speculation of Ridley's involvement in Smash 4 as we are.

Ridley will be playable.

 

[Sausage Zeldas]

I'm just 50/50 on Ridley at this point.
@ N3ON It's really just some silly rules some fans make to try and justify roster slots. Like Pokemon getting more characters than Mario and Zelda isn't so Farfetch'd.

FTFY
But yeah, considering that Pokémon has 721 characters, it wouldn't be too hard to go over the other series...

 

[N3ON]

I'm just 50/50 on Ridley at this point.
@ N3ON It's really just some silly rules some fans make to try and justify roster slots. Like Pokemon getting more characters than Mario and Zelda isn't so farfetched.

Very true, but the least they could've done was come up with something not contradicted in the previous game. >_<

 

[AEMehr]

I can't believe we're torturing ourselves by trying to figure out the status of a single fictional character in a video game and the guy responsible for all of this is like

"Yes, I'm still alive." - Masahiro Sakurai​

I swear, Ridley will be the new Fire Emblem Discussion with all of these conflicting opinions.

...The road to E3 will be long and painful...

 

[FalKoopa]

I think I've spent the last day mostly worrying about Ivysaur's and Squirtle's fates.

Ah well.

How unlikely is Pokémon getting 8 characters, by the way?