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Character Discussion Thread

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Spazzy_D

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The only third parties that are not currently represented in the game that I could see getting in are Squre-Enix, Konami, and Ubisoft, but I don't consider any of them to be particularly likely.

Konami pains me as the only rep I see getting in is Snake, whom I like, but I like other Konami reps more. Specifically, I would much rather have Bomberman (who is really a Hudson rep anyway) or Simon Belmont. They have been in my top 5 most wanted third party characters since Melee, and they are the only characters in that top 5 that have not been playable in Smash yet.
 

BluePikmin11

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Inklings are a great choice. Who cares if their series isn't out yet? They are capable of a lot of cool stuff.

Like, I seriously don't get it. Even though a character is awesome, and a character is capable of some cool ****, they simply can't be that great of a choice because of sales or series prominence???

I mean, you don't have to like Inklings, or even consider them likely. But I consistently see sales/series prominence being used to shoot down several characters that would be absolutely freaking awesome. Whatever happened to supporting a character and making your voice heard despite crappy sales/a game being brand new? If Sakurai were such a stickler about characters/series being new or not familiar to fans, then Greninja, Roy (or Marth for that matter) wouldn't be in Smash when they were. Marth and Roy almost weren't added to Melee for NA, but they were, and look at the results.

Something many forget is that Smash Bros. is a very magical thing. Almost anything you put in Smash Bros. becomes big. I believe that if Inklings were added to Smash, they would draw interest to the character, which would then get applied to the game they come from. Interest in the game creates sales. BAM. Smash Bros. just made Splatoon a big deal, just like Nintendo wanted it.

Plus, there really aren't a lot of new IP characters left. I think it's highly unlikely that all DLC characters will be either vets or characters from series we already have. Quite honestly, when looking at the biggest choices for DLC, Inklings/Splatoon are one of the only characters/series that doesn't have a playable character in Smash. Most other popular choices, (K.Rool, Impa, Roy, vets...) are from series already represented with playable characters. Isaac, Inklings, Wonder Red, and a few others are brought up rather often. I think they have higher chances than others think if I'm being honest.

Basically, the sales argument needs to be taken less seriously, as does the whole "series hasn't proven itself" argument. If characters who didn't exist at the time of their inclusion have happened, I don't see the issue with Inklings. I really just don't.

EDIT: Also, PSASBR has had 3rd party DLC. No reason to think it's impossible for Smash.
Inkling is a great choice moveset-wise, but this kind of talk has been said to many new unrepresented franchises, and so far, only retro characters (Pit for example) have been given the treatment through-out the 15 years Smash Bros has existed that you described to the Inklings.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Inkling is a great choice moveset-wise, but this kind of talk has been said to many new unrepresented franchises, and so far, only retro characters (Pit for example) have been given the treatment through-out the 15 years Smash Bros has existed that you described to the Inklings.
What treatment are we referring to here? I don't quite get what you're saying. Are you referring to promotion? That's not what Pit was added for. Pit was a popular choice for Brawl believe it or not. Ice Climbers were added for their unique gameplay concept and being retro, once again having nothing to do with promotion.

I might be completely off here though lol.
 

Spazzy_D

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Anyone know what Japan thinks of possible DLC? Do they still like Roy? Do they care at all that Wolf and Lucas were cut? That knowledge might help us going forward. I know @ChronoBound compiled the information for the old "what Japan thinks" thread, but I would love to know what they think post-release.
 

JaidynReiman

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I'm on the whole "I don't think third-party DLC will happen, but I'm not ruling it out" crowd. I definitely don't think that Snake will be added as DLC if they decided they didn't want him in the game by default, but again, I'm not ruling it out.


Here's my DLC Tier List:


S (70/30). :wolf:

Wolf is the only character I count as S tier personally. I think he's extremely likely, and they may have decided they wanted to rework him a bit but didn't want to do it by default so they decided to postpone it to also help promote Star Fox U. I originally would've marked Lucas here as well, but my opinion on him changed a bit.


A (60/40). Isaac, King K. Rool / Dixie Kong

I think Isaac and either K. Rool or Dixie Kong are the next most likely choices. I think its fairly likely we could get both K. Rool and Dixie Kong, but for at least one I give them an A. Isaac has always been high on my list because his lack of appearance as an AT is very suspicious, and we now know they have not cut GS all-together. I'm currently expecting him to have a trophy in Smash Wii U. I also do think GS4 is happening. Similarly, I think Diddy Kong Racing U is happening and at least Dixie will be in it, but I think its also possible K. Rool could make his return there. I think K. Rool is more likely due to popularity, importance in the DK franchise, and being easier to differentiate from the Kong characters, but its a close call with Dixie as well.

B (50/50). :popo:, :lucas:, Inkling

I'm trying to think of someone else to add here, but I can't think of any. I considered leaving out Lucas again, but ultimately decided to add him. The reason I have Ice Climbers here is because of the chance that Sakurai is still interested in trying to finish what he started. We don't know the full story of why they were cut, just that they had problems on 3DS. For all we know, he spent maybe a few months on and off trying to get them to work, trying here and there, but couldn't quite get it. And for all we know, he was able to improve them over this time, but couldn't quite fully fix it, so they may be easy to fix and may not be.

Lucas is here because there was a reason he was cut. Whether it be because Mother is a small series that will not continue, and maybe because Mother 3 is not being planned to ever come to the west, and its just a cruel tease to have him playable but not have Mother 3 come to the West. In the off chance that Mother 3 does come to the west, Lucas may come back. I also think its possible he may come back without Mother 3, but I find that more questionable. Inkling I think is the most likely new franchise rep outside of Golden Sun. I was going to put them lower, but decided to add them to the B. tier.


C. (40/60). K. Rool AND Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Ray, Advance Wars Rep (Andy/Sami), Chibi-Robo

I said there was a decent chance of getting both K. Rool and Dixie. I'd rank them here. Ray's lack of an AT is also very odd, and he's got several games as well, I'd say he's got a pretty decent chance. Advance Wars is more questionable, but the franchise is very long-running. Chibi-Robo apparently has more than a couple games? I thought he was more obscure, so I never thought too highly of him. Because of this I added Chibi-Robo as well.

The most likely of all these I'd say is Bandana Dee, but I don't think he's that likely compared to other characters.


D (30/70). Krystal, Lip, :snake:, :squirtle:, :ivysaur:
Krystal is undoubtedly the most likely here. I don't think she's going to happen, but she's probably the most likely. I'd love to see Lip, she's my fourth most wanted character for DLC at this point, I just don't see it happening. In the slim chance that a new Panel de Pon game is made, Lip is in the game AND its ported to the west WITH the fairies in it, I think Lip has an extremely high likelihood of being added. But that's the only way at this point I see it happening...



What treatment are we referring to here? I don't quite get what you're saying. Are you referring to promotion? That's not what Pit was added for. Pit was a popular choice for Brawl believe it or not. Ice Climbers were added for their unique gameplay concept and being retro, once again having nothing to do with promotion.

I might be completely off here though lol.
The only time promotion ever played any role, as I recall, was Roy in Melee. And he wasn't given high priority either. He was a last minute clone, hardly the same thing as making an entirely original character.


Anyone know what Japan thinks of possible DLC? Do they still like Roy? Do they care at all that Wolf and Lucas were cut? That knowledge might help us going forward. I know @ChronoBound compiled the information for the old "what Japan thinks" thread, but I would love to know what they think post-release.
From what I have heard, Japan never liked Lucas that much to begin with. Mother 3 was not all that popular in Japan, for the most part, they thought it was too dark and unfitting for Smash Bros. I don't know about Wolf.
 
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Geno Boost

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I said what's often regarded as the best game of all time.

Personally I would say that honor goes to Pokemon Emerald, :awesome: but it's impossible to deny the impact Ocarina of Time had on people.

Sheik was A main character. Not THE main character. Just like Geno is A main character of Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. Sheik got in due to luck, timing and the legacy Ocarina of Time has. Geno has none of that.
at least Geno is important part of Mario universe
 

JaidynReiman

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at least Geno is important part of Mario universe
He is? Last I checked, he's a secondary character in a minor Mario game from 20 years ago who has never appeared since. Sheik is literally Zelda and guided Link on his quest throughout OOT, which is THE most iconic and popular game in the franchise. Yes, Super Mario RPG was popular, but it is nowhere near the level of Ocarina of Time.
 

Geno Boost

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He is? Last I checked, he's a secondary character in a minor Mario game from 20 years ago who has never appeared since. Sheik is literally Zelda and guided Link on his quest throughout OOT, which is THE most iconic and popular game in the franchise. Yes, Super Mario RPG was popular, but it is nowhere near the level of Ocarina of Time.
Yes he is important. without geno, Mario can't finish his adventure in smrpg. Geno appeared In mlsss after smrpg. Also it doesn't matter if smrpg is popular or not
 
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Autumn ♫

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Geno is pretty much impossible at this point just because he isn't a huge gaming icon like the other 3rd parties, quite frankly. Now if SE decides to use him a lot, then he's got at least somewhat of a chance.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I'm on the whole "I don't think third-party DLC will happen, but I'm not ruling it out" crowd. I definitely don't think that Snake will be added as DLC if they decided they didn't want him in the game by default, but again, I'm not ruling it out.


Here's my DLC Tier List:


S (70/30). :wolf:

Wolf is the only character I count as S tier personally. I think he's extremely likely, and they may have decided they wanted to rework him a bit but didn't want to do it by default so they decided to postpone it to also help promote Star Fox U. I originally would've marked Lucas here as well, but my opinion on him changed a bit.


A (60/40). Isaac, King K. Rool / Dixie Kong

I think Isaac and either K. Rool or Dixie Kong are the next most likely choices. I think its fairly likely we could get both K. Rool and Dixie Kong, but for at least one I give them an A. Isaac has always been high on my list because his lack of appearance as an AT is very suspicious, and we now know they have not cut GS all-together. I'm currently expecting him to have a trophy in Smash Wii U. I also do think GS4 is happening. Similarly, I think Diddy Kong Racing U is happening and at least Dixie will be in it, but I think its also possible K. Rool could make his return there. I think K. Rool is more likely due to popularity, importance in the DK franchise, and being easier to differentiate from the Kong characters, but its a close call with Dixie as well.

B (50/50). :popo:, :lucas:, Inkling

I'm trying to think of someone else to add here, but I can't think of any. I considered leaving out Lucas again, but ultimately decided to add him. The reason I have Ice Climbers here is because of the chance that Sakurai is still interested in trying to finish what he started. We don't know the full story of why they were cut, just that they had problems on 3DS. For all we know, he spent maybe a few months on and off trying to get them to work, trying here and there, but couldn't quite get it. And for all we know, he was able to improve them over this time, but couldn't quite fully fix it, so they may be easy to fix and may not be.

Lucas is here because there was a reason he was cut. Whether it be because Mother is a small series that will not continue, and maybe because Mother 3 is not being planned to ever come to the west, and its just a cruel tease to have him playable but not have Mother 3 come to the West. In the off chance that Mother 3 does come to the west, Lucas may come back. I also think its possible he may come back without Mother 3, but I find that more questionable. Inkling I think is the most likely new franchise rep outside of Golden Sun. I was going to put them lower, but decided to add them to the B. tier.


C. (40/60). K. Rool AND Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Ray, Advance Wars Rep (Andy/Sami), Chibi-Robo

I said there was a decent chance of getting both K. Rool and Dixie. I'd rank them here. Ray's lack of an AT is also very odd, and he's got several games as well, I'd say he's got a pretty decent chance. Advance Wars is more questionable, but the franchise is very long-running. Chibi-Robo apparently has more than a couple games? I thought he was more obscure, so I never thought too highly of him. Because of this I added Chibi-Robo as well.

The most likely of all these I'd say is Bandana Dee, but I don't think he's that likely compared to other characters.


D (30/70). Krystal, Lip, :snake:, :squirtle:, :ivysaur:
Krystal is undoubtedly the most likely here. I don't think she's going to happen, but she's probably the most likely. I'd love to see Lip, she's my fourth most wanted character for DLC at this point, I just don't see it happening. In the slim chance that a new Panel de Pon game is made, Lip is in the game AND its ported to the west WITH the fairies in it, I think Lip has an extremely high likelihood of being added. But that's the only way at this point I see it happening...




The only time promotion ever played any role, as I recall, was Roy in Melee. And he wasn't given high priority either. He was a last minute clone, hardly the same thing as making an entirely original character.



From what I have heard, Japan never liked Lucas that much to begin with. Mother 3 was not all that popular in Japan, for the most part, they thought it was too dark and unfitting for Smash Bros. I don't know about Wolf.
That may be true. But DLC isn't exactly the same as the game itself. The time restraints aren't necessarily all that tight compared to the base game, so I don't think being an original character hurts anybody's chances really.
 

theenlightenedone

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What do I think? I think you ask too many questions!!! XD

The only one of those I have any knowledge on is Andy. I think he'd be cool, but only if Isaac, Ray, and Saki all come first.
I get Ray and Isaac but why Saki? Also Andy definitely should become playable before Fleming don't you think? Also what about a laguez representative?

Are we talking people we think have a chance?

Brawl Vet Tier: (S Tier)::lucas::wolf:

No reason to not bring those two back.

A Tier: :snake:, Dixie Kong / K.Rool

I think Snake is easier to get back then people think. I'm sure he's at least being talked about especially since Kojima gave the okay. I expect a Donkey Kong character to be DLC. However, I only think we're getting one.

B Tier: Chibi-Robo, Isaac, Inkling?, Zelda Newcomer

These three are all new series. Inkling is only there because of promotional purposes. I'm rather unsure about them. But I can definitely see it happening. Isaac has popularity going for him but he's been out of the lime light for a while. Chibi-Robo is actually a semi-popular choice whos's been around since the NGC days and is STILL GETTING GAMES TODAY. I think people are underestimating him. If Sakurai is going for series that are still going strong that have characters that can actually work, then Chibi has a lot going for him. I just can't shake it, but I think Zelda's getting someone new. Impa is the most plausible choice, but it's not necessarily her.

C Tier: Reworked :popo:, Bandana Dee, :roypm::pichumelee::ivysaur::squirtle:, Captain Toad

I don't think :popo: will come back without their gimmick but I can see them happening I guess. Bandana Dee is certainly making a name for himself, but I don't think Kirby is going to be the main focus for a while. The remaining vets are all kinda unneccessary, but I feel they all have a real shot of getting in. Roy still has popularity and his gimmick. Pichu's niche is still untouched and Squirtle and Ivysaur were unique characters who probably only got shot down due to "Too Many Pokemon." Captain Toad I feel has a shot, but I'm not optimistic.

D Tier: Ray Mk III, Wonder Red, A Big Name Third Party, Metroid Newcomer, Krystal, Black Shadow

Ray is being a bit generous methinks, but I feel that the stars could align if given the shot. Wonderful 101 while kickass, bombed so hard I can see people ignoring it exists, though honestly, a character in Smash could turn that around. I also feel that characters like Rayman or MAYBE Layton have a good shot, but I think only the big boys have a shot. No Bayonetta. No Bravely Default. Nothing that isn't from a word famous series. They have to be legendary. Remember that. I have a feeling that we'll get Anthony or Rundas or something after the demand for Ridley fell through. I dunno, I feel like we might be thrown a bone here. Krystal has popularity, but I think Starfox U would have to be HUGE for her to have a shot. Black Shadow probably won't happen, but I can see him happening due to his voice actor's popularity in Japan.

I'd Be Downright Shocked Tier: Any Pokemon Newcomer, Any Fire Emblem Newcomer, Any Kid Icarus Newcomer, Any Yoshi Newcomer, Any Wario Newcomer, Any Mother Newcomer, Any Retro Newcomer, Any Pikmin Newcomer, Any Punch Out!! Newcomer, Any Xenoblade Newcomer, Any Sonic Newcomer, Any Mega Man Newcomer, Any Pac-Man Newcomer, :younglinkmelee:

I don't expect any newcomers from any of these series or niches.

Sneaking Suspicion Tier: Any Pokeball Pokemon, Assist Trophy or Stage Boss

I can't help but I feel we're gonna get one of these through DLC. I just have no idea who it would be. My guess would be Isabelle but.. I dunno.
I really want the Ice Climbers back and everything was looking up for them returning as DLC but yesterday a turn for the worst happened I was watching a GameXplain video that showed off all of the Music in the game and I saw a song from Wrecking Crew which don't have a playable character just stages (surprisingly Spike is still very popular in Japan) anyways they had logos next to their songs but the only Ice Climber's song didn't even have their logo. How could Sakurai do such a thing and how is he going to explain it? I feel like the only retro newcommer that might get added is Sukapon. Also I feel like Louie, Brittany, and Charlie would only get added as Alternates, The only Fire Emblem newcommer I see is a Laguez, and the only Pokemon newcommer I see is Sceptile. The Metroid newcommer I want added is Rundas. Chibi-RObo I would love to see but, he would be like Pichu in the sense that he has to take damage based of his game. I would love to see Wonder Red added and wouldn't mind seeing Fleming or a Splatoon rep.
 

Geno Boost

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Geno is pretty much impossible at this point just because he isn't a huge gaming icon like the other 3rd parties, quite frankly. Now if SE decides to use him a lot, then he's got at least somewhat of a chance.
back in brawl days no one did say Geno is impossible charcter look at Geno brawl thread http://smashboards.com/threads/the-official-geno-thread.72298/ no one did give up his hopes and it does have 441 pages it started in 2006 and it ended in 2008 Geno was VERY high requested charcter
 

Autumn ♫

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back in brawl days no one did say Geno is impossible charcter look at Geno brawl thread http://smashboards.com/threads/the-official-geno-thread.72298/ no one did give up his hopes and it does have 441 pages it started in 2006 and it ended in 2008 Geno was VERY high requested charcter
Popularity isn't everything. Just because you have a big cult following you doesn't mean you're possible. With how dormant Geno's been, him not being a gaming all-star, and SE having plenty of other, more reasonable characters to add to Smash Bros. makes Geno pretty impossible at this time.
 

theenlightenedone

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Geno Boost

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Popularity isn't everything. Just because you have a big cult following you doesn't mean you're possible. With how dormant Geno's been, him not being a gaming all-star, and SE having plenty of other, more reasonable characters to add to Smash Bros. makes Geno pretty impossible at this time.
people doesnt care about black mage and slime to be in smash. most people see geno as the best square enix rep to be in smash bros he is a charcter BETWEEN nintendo and square enix
 

False Sense

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Personally I would say that honor goes to Pokemon Emerald :awesome:
Obviously. :estatic:

So, about Geno... He's a third party character that's only appeared in one game (with a minor cameo in a second) in a huge series many years ago. The one and only thing in his favor is that he's remained very popular over the years. That's about it. As far Mario and Third Party characters go, he's simply not that significant in the grand scheme of things. As it is, there are better potential Third Party characters that could represent Square Enix, and there are better potential Mario characters (like the ones we got this time around) that can better represent the Mario series.

Frankly, I don't think he can get in on popularity alone.
 

ultimatekoopa

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nothing from mario paper and mario and luigi seires charcters will be added in super smash before geno does because SMRPG started those 2 seires and it was important than those 2 seires plus no one cares about every partner in paper mario
There is already content from both Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi before SMRPG so that argument is invalid, also nobody cares about Geno, Square doesn't bother to use him, Nintendo doesn't bother to recover it, I can easily name at least 20 characters from the mario universe that are way more important than Geno
 

Chandeelure

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Sorry, but seriously, Geno has 0% chances.

-Unimportant for his franchise
-Appears in ONE old game and has a minor cameo in other.
-Third Party
-His company doesn't care about him
-Not iconic
-His popularity isn't high now
-Has a lot of competition
-Ugly :awesome:

I still don't understand why he was popular in the Brawl era.
 

Geno Boost

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There is already content from both Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi before SMRPG so that argument is invalid, also nobody cares about Geno, Square doesn't bother to use him, Nintendo doesn't bother to recover it, I can easily name at least 20 characters from the mario universe that are way more important than Geno
Alphadream does care about geno (maybe they own him). You can name at least 20 important than geno, like gommba? This guy has nothing to do with smash
 

Geno Boost

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Sorry, but seriously, Geno has 0% chances.

-Unimportant for his franchise
-Appears in ONE old game and has a minor cameo in other.
-Third Party
-His company doesn't care about him
-Not iconic
-His popularity isn't high now
-Has a lot of competition
-Ugly :awesome:

I still don't understand why he was popular in the Brawl era.
So you can only say the reason why he can't be in smash but you can't say any reason why he can be in smash. sounds like a hater
 

NonSpecificGuy

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So you can only say the reason why he can't be in smash but you can't say any reason why he can be in smash. sounds like a hater
He's a very unique character and it's not like any of us are "haters" we just accept the fact that it probably won't happen, I'm sure we'd all love to see him in but the hard, sad truth is that he more than likely, most probably will not be in Smash Bros. This one at least, there's always next game though.
 
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Chandeelure

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So you can only say the reason why he can't be in smash but you can't say any reason why he can be in smash. sounds like a hater
I don't hate Geno, I hate Mallow :awesome:
And I didn't say a reason why he can be in Smash because that will never happen.

If you think a character will be playable ONLY because he has SOME popularity, you are going to be sad.

...And don't double post.
 
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BluePikmin11

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Sometimes, I feel that the majority of the Smash community overall doesn't know how to judge how a character is likely, one moment a character like Isaac, King K. Rool, and Bandanna Dee is considered likely because they are very popular and have a big fanbase. Then we get to other very requested characters Geno and Krystal, they are considered extremely unlikely. Ironic logic, must be some kind of bias. :p

You could say the same about every partner in Paper Mario
To be fair, Geno is a far more notable partner than the ones Mario had before in an RPG.
 

Geno Boost

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I don't hate Geno, I hate Mallow :awesome:
And I didn't say a reason why he can be in Smash because that will never happen.

If you think a character will be playable ONLY because he has SOME popularity, you are going to be sad.

...And don't double post.
You didn't come from the future to tell me that geno will never be playable

It doesn't matter if he was popular or not
 

False Sense

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Sometimes, I feel that the majority of the Smash community overall doesn't know how to judge how a character is likely, one moment a character like Isaac, King K. Rool, and Bandanna Dee is considered likely because they are very popular and have a big fanbase. Then we get to other very requested characters Geno and Krystal, they are considered extremely unlikely. Ironic logic, must be some kind of bias. :p.
Or there are other factors to consider aside from popularity.
 

Chandeelure

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Sometimes, I feel that the majority of the Smash community overall doesn't know how to judge how a character is likely, one moment a character like Isaac, King K. Rool, and Bandanna Dee is considered likely because they are very popular and have a big fanbase. Then we get to other very requested characters Geno and Krystal, they are considered extremely unlikely. Ironic logic, must be some kind of bias. :p
The popularity is only one of the factors.
Characters like Bandana Dee, Isaac, Dixie, Ridley, etc are popular AND ALSO important.
Geno is not important ... and about Krystal, that's a good point, that's some kind of bias, because she has some importance.
People just hate her because her fans are..."furries" (I think that's the word in english XD) or something like that.
Oh, and because Adventures was very bad (I didn't play it, but that's what SF fans in general think).

To be fair, Geno is a far more notable partner than the ones Mario had before in an RPG.
Not really XD
They are on the same level.

You didn't come from the future to tell me that geno will never be playable
Are you sure?
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Sometimes, I feel that the majority of the Smash community overall doesn't know how to judge how a character is likely, one moment a character like Isaac, King K. Rool, and Bandanna Dee is considered likely because they are very popular and have a big fanbase. Then we get to other very requested characters Geno and Krystal, they are considered extremely unlikely. Ironic logic, must be some kind of bias. :p
For the record, I think Krystal is significantly more likely than Bandana Dee but then that's just me. The point is it's different because Geno isn't owned by Nintendo and Square is really picky about everything so... Really it's Squares fault.
 

BluePikmin11

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Or there are other factors to consider aside from popularity.
Yeah there are, but most of the people here don't consider those factors at all.
To compare, King K. Rool has only fan-demand and the fact he's from an already successful franchise to back him up, but his lack of notable recent appearances in DKC makes him pretty unlikely to be playable. Pretty similar to Geno's situation. But despite that, people consider him likely for DLC and ignore the cons.
 
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Oh, is it 2006 again where we talk about the overrated Zatch Bell reject as if he actually had a chance?
 

False Sense

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Yeah there are, but most of the people here don't consider those factors at all.
To compare, King K. Rool has only fan-demand and the fact he's from an already successful franchise to back him up, but his lack of notable recent appearances in DKC makes him pretty unlikely to be playable. Pretty similar to Geno's situation. But despite that, people consider him likely for DLC and ignore the cons.
Well, there's also the fact that he's the definitive main antagonist of he DK series. His trophy description even compares him to Bowser. In that sense, he's not really comparable to a one-shot like Geno.
 
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