Character Discussion Thread

[Kriven]

I think you're misinterpreting that statement about the future prospects of a franchise... That statement is a thinly veiled way of saying:

"Hey, if we can't use the character to promote the sale of something we have in the works, we won't prioritize them."

With both of these franchises launching in the future, they both hold "future prospects" that would be improved by guerilla marketing.

Me neither. I think people are unwisely assuming that just because it's DLC they'll start including original characters from unproven series simply to promote them when there's no precedent of that.

Roy.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think you're misinterpreting that statement about the future prospects of a franchise... That statement is a thinly veiled way of saying:

"Hey, if we can't use the character to promote the sale of something we have in the works, we won't prioritize them."

With both of these franchises launching in the future, they both hold "future prospects" that would be improved by guerilla marketing.



Roy.

As I said before, its a combination of issues. You're suggesting marketing as the only reason, but in the past, Sakurai has legitimately also taken not merely a franchise's future into question, but an individual character. If the franchises aren't likely to continue, what reasoning does he have of putting them in Smash Bros.? This is a very important distinction that needs to be made.


Sakurai HATES cutting characters, so he'd be very concerned with adding in a character from a future franchise that might not continue after the fact, and if it does not, it wouldn't feel right for that character to stick around. But at the same time, he hates the idea of removing the character, so he'd rather not add said character in the first place. Yes, he still does make some cuts anyway, but he doesn't take them lightly and would far rather avoid cuts all-together if it can be helped.

 

[Spazzy_D]

As I said before, its a combination of issues. You're suggesting marketing as the only reason, but in the past, Sakurai has legitimately also taken not merely a franchise's future into question, but an individual character. If the franchises aren't likely to continue, what reasoning does he have of putting them in Smash Bros.? This is a very important distinction that needs to be made.


Sakurai HATES cutting characters, so he'd be very concerned with adding in a character from a future franchise that might not continue after the fact, and if it does not, it wouldn't feel right for that character to stick around. But at the same time, he hates the idea of removing the character, so he'd rather not add said character in the first place. Yes, he still does make some cuts anyway, but he doesn't take them lightly and would far rather avoid cuts all-together if it can be helped.

I think this is part of the reason we will see mostly veteran DLC (well, besides the fact that they have preexisting fan bases to market to and will be easier to make then new comers.) Sakurai didn't want to make cuts in the first place.

 

[Dizzy_Fool]

Roy.

Me neither. I think people are unwisely assuming that just because it's DLC they'll start including original characters from unproven series simply to promote them when there's no precedent of that.

 

[Kriven]

What do you mean by "original" character? Since you underlined that part. Are you talking literally about characters which are the origin of a franchise? That's the only way I can see Roy not being an "original character".

While Roy's franchise isn't unproven, his specific title was. His inclusion was exclusively to promote the upcoming FE game, which was unrelated to previous entries in the franchise. The strength of an individual FE game falls on the strength of its cast, and since each game (more or less) has its own cast and lore, each game (more or less) acts as a stand alone property that needs testing. Roy's game did manage to work out, and garnered a direct sequel. But there's no reason Roy, an untested protagonist, should have been considered over Sigurd, a character with a large cult following, other than marketing.

It would be like if they added Captain Toad to SSB4 originally. While the Mario franchise is tested, that isn't what Captain Toad would be representing.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

What do you mean by "original" character? Since you underlined that part. Are you talking literally about characters which are the origin of a franchise? That's the only way I can see Roy not being an "original character".

While Roy's franchise isn't unproven, his specific title was. His inclusion was exclusively to promote the upcoming FE game, which was unrelated to previous entries in the franchise. The strength of an individual FE game falls on the strength of its cast, and since each game (more or less) has its own cast and lore, each game (more or less) acts as a stand alone property that needs testing. Roy's game did manage to work out, and garnered a direct sequel. But there's no reason Roy, an untested protagonist, should have been considered over Sigurd, a character with a large cult following, other than marketing.

It would be like if they added Captain Toad to SSB4 originally. While the Mario franchise is tested, that isn't what Captain Toad would be representing.

It's actually a prequel considering FE7 took place before Roy was born

 

[Dizzy_Fool]

What do you mean by "original" character? Since you underlined that part. Are you talking literally about characters which are the origin of a franchise? That's the only way I can see Roy not being an "original character".

While Roy's franchise isn't unproven, his specific title was. His inclusion was exclusively to promote the upcoming FE game, which was unrelated to previous entries in the franchise. The strength of an individual FE game falls on the strength of its cast, and since each game (more or less) has its own cast and lore, each game (more or less) acts as a stand alone property that needs testing. Roy's game did manage to work out, and garnered a direct sequel. But there's no reason Roy, an untested protagonist, should have been considered over Sigurd, a character with a large cult following, other than marketing.

It would be like if they added Captain Toad to SSB4 originally. While the Mario franchise is tested, that isn't what Captain Toad would be representing.

Original meaning not cloned.

And one title versus a whole franchise is quite a different story. Mother 3 wasn't proven when Lucas was included. X/Y weren't proven when Greninja was included. But there's zero precedent of a series getting representation before it proves to have made some lasting impact.

Plus Roy was apparently chosen because Sakurai felt he represented the series well and his fire capabilities set him apart from the other potential Marth clones.

 

[jweb22]

Okay so I might as well throw my 2 cents out there on the possible DLC as I assume we will be getting more than just Mewtwo in the future.

A lot of people tend to think that cut characters will be what we're getting but I have my doubts on a few.

• I hate to upset Lucas fans but I highly doubt he'll be returning unless he has a completely new moveset. Ness literally has all of Lucas's special moves as Custom Moves.
• I highly doubt Roy(FE) will be returning as we have Roy Koopa as a playable character and there's no reason to have 2 Marth clones.
• Wolf is in a similar boat as Lucas however...Wolf's standards moves are completely different from Fox and Falco so he MIGHT comeback.
• Now, if I remember Sakurai's interview about the Ice Climbers correctly, he said that the Ice Climbers could have worked on the 3DS but it would have severely slowed development time and he felt that wasn't worth it as the Ice Climbers don't have any new games planned in the future. Part of me doubts they'll come but we know for a fact that they worked perfectly on the Wii U and there is left over programming for them in the 3DS so... MAYBE.
• I don't feel the need to even entertain the idea of Pichu coming back.
• Personally I want Snake back. I doubt it but it would be awesome for him to return.

Now to possible newcomers!!!

• We all know that the Gematsu leak (I probably spelled that wrong) turned out to be incorrect. However based on Sakurai's interviews where he answered questions about Chrom and said that Greninja got in because during development they had a slot open for a Pokemon from X and Y, we can assume that the Gematsu leak was all based on old info which could mean that Chorus Kids or some Rhythm Heaven character could be potential DLC.
• Dixie Kong is almost a no-brainer. We all know that there was data for Dixie to be playable in Brawl but was ultimately cut. I wouldn't be surprised to see her in as DLC. I know most want K Rool but I don't see him getting in before Dixie. Especially due to Tropical Freeze.
• If we don't get Wolf back then there might be a chance for Krystal. I personally want her before Wolf as she could be completely different from the other StarFox characters but I won't get my hopes up.
• The last possible character depends on what the Wii U assist trophies turn out to be and that's Isaac from Golden Sun. I was completely shocked when there was no Golden Sun content on the 3DS version, but after Mewtwo's announcement...we may know why. It all depends on if he's still an assist trophy though, but say the character is Felix or Matthew as the AT...then we may have Issac on the way.

Well...that's my 2 cents. I'm sure some will disagree with it but that's what forums are for. I'm gonna say we'll get 4-6 DLC characters and my bets are: Mewtwo, Wolf, Ice Climbers, Issac, Dixie and RH character.

 

[Dizzy_Fool]

I'd say ICs and an RH character are 100% contingent on if Sakurai has found a way past the 3DS limitations. If he has, yes, I think they'd be all but guaranteed. If not, then we're simply not going to get them.

Maybe they'll be DLC exclusive to the New 3DS (and Wii U ofc).

 

[Kenith]

• I hate to upset Lucas fans but I highly doubt he'll be returning unless he has a completely new moveset. Ness literally has all of Lucas's special moves as Custom Moves.
• Wolf is in a similar boat as Lucas however...Wolf's standards moves are completely different from Fox and Falco so he MIGHT comeback.

Lucas has completely different standard moves from Ness. Specials aren't everything.

 

[BluePikmin11]

• I hate to upset Lucas fans but I highly doubt he'll be returning unless he has a completely new moveset. Ness literally has all of Lucas's special moves as Custom Moves.
• Wolf is in a similar boat as Lucas however...Wolf's standards moves are completely different from Fox and Falco so he MIGHT comeback.

These statements are pretty contradicting.

 

[jweb22]

Lucas has completely different standard moves from Ness. Specials aren't everything.

I know Lucas's Smash attacks were different. I probably didn't play him enough to see the difference in his standard moves. Then what I said for Wolf can apply to Lucas too.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Okay so I might as well throw my 2 cents out there on the possible DLC as I assume we will be getting more than just Mewtwo in the future.

A lot of people tend to think that cut characters will be what we're getting but I have my doubts on a few.

• I hate to upset Lucas fans but I highly doubt he'll be returning unless he has a completely new moveset. Ness literally has all of Lucas's special moves as Custom Moves.
• I highly doubt Roy(FE) will be returning as we have Roy Koopa as a playable character and there's no reason to have 2 Marth clones.
• Wolf is in a similar boat as Lucas however...Wolf's standards moves are completely different from Fox and Falco so he MIGHT comeback.
• Now, if I remember Sakurai's interview about the Ice Climbers correctly, he said that the Ice Climbers could have worked on the 3DS but it would have severely slowed development time and he felt that wasn't worth it as the Ice Climbers don't have any new games planned in the future. Part of me doubts they'll come but we know for a fact that they worked perfectly on the Wii U and there is left over programming for them in the 3DS so... MAYBE.
• I don't feel the need to even entertain the idea of Pichu coming back.
• Personally I want Snake back. I doubt it but it would be awesome for him to return.

- Ness' specials could easily be given to Lucas as well, so I personally don't think that kills him. Also, Ness being made starter is a tiny hint to him
- I know that was a joke, but that was a low blow
- Lucas has the same situation, as he has completely different normal moves. Take it from a Lucas main. But, unless Ness, Falco was not might a starter, so I kinda doubt him too.
- Yeah, MAYBE, really they're just up in the air. Just depends if they wanna put that much work into DLC
- I sure as hell do, that'd be amazing XD
- I actually disagree. That one event match with those several Metal Gear Solid references gives me a lot of confidence in him.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

should totally be back.

 

[Dizzy_Fool]

I'd rather have then then .

Then . Then . Then . And then finally .


I don't want or which is good considering we'll probably never get them again anyway.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

should totally be back.

You tellin me, Swamp? Dat there's one of only two third party characters I'd be okay with at dis point!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You tellin me, Swamp? Dat there's one of only two third party characters I'd be okay with at dis point!

Don't roleplay like that all of a sudden.

I'd rather have then then .

Then . Then . Then . And then finally .


I don't want or which is good considering we'll probably never get them again anyway.

Why not all of them?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Don't roleplay like that all of a sudden.

No really, ah'd love to see Snake come back, but at dis point ah doubt it.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Sakurai must really hate Chrom. I feel bad for his fans.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

No really, ah'd love to see Snake come back, but at dis point ah doubt it.

Ah mean de pretenden to talk like dis.

Dis isn't even a southern accent.

Sakurai must really hate Chrom. I feel bad for his fans.

I wanted Robin and that just stings...

 

[Dizzy_Fool]

Don't roleplay like that all of a sudden.

Why not all of them?

I don't want three Links, that's overkill. I already don't like the fact that we have two Marios.

As for Pichu... I wouldn't want Riolu either since we already have Lucario. I wouldn't want Wartortle if we already had Squirtle. Multiple Pokemon in the same line also seems like overkill to me I guess, especially when the two are pretty similar.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Ah mean de pretenden to talk like dis.

Dis isn't even a southern accent.

What in parks dale county? Am Ah bein trolled or somethin? I thought we were talkin bout Snake, not fiddlin around like a buncha Kansas City Rapidash!

Sakurai must really hate Chrom. I feel bad for his fans.

To be fair, they did say he was considered

 

[Xzsmmc]

To be fair, they did say he was considered

Yeah, but then they go ahead and make him a loser in the trailer and the actual game. Were I a Chrom fan, I'd be more than a little upset. Hell, I am upset. While Ridley is saddled with an idiotic role, at least he isn't constantly **** on.

 

[False Sense]

Sakurai must really hate Chrom. I feel bad for his fans.

I'm not so sure that he does. For an NPC, Chrom has a surprisingly large presence in the game. He's in Robin's Final Smash and victory pose, has his own trophy and online icon, and has a fairly lengthy conversation with the Kid Icarus characters in Palutena's Guidance. He has a lot of attention despite not being playable, and even though he's being teased here, that's kind of how those characters act; Palutena and Viridi love to mess with people, and Chrom's a mostly serious character with a slight goofy side to him that gets exposed when he's put into awkward situations. I think it's more of Sakurai's way of playing with the fans and poking fun at a widely held opinion of Chrom. I don't think he hates him.

Though I will admit that doesn't change the fact that fans of Chrom probably won't take that well. Fortunately, though, the number of diehard Chrom fans left at this point is relatively small.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Sakurai must really hate Chrom. I feel bad for his fans.

No, Sakurai just hates the fact that people assumed for over a year that a certain character was guaranteed to be playable without even thinking about other possibilities. Chrom's treatment is a bit harsh, but its not about the character in general. Its moreso people trying to make assumptions about what Sakurai will do. I'd say that if it wasn't for the fans thinking that Chrom was a shoe-in for 1-2 years, Chrom would not be receiving the treatment he has gotten. And honestly, he's treating Chrom fairly well all things considered and is giving Chrom numerous appearances in different ways.

I do think the dialog in the Palutena's guidance is a bit harsh, though. But again, I honestly believe the treatment is moreso due to people assuming things that weren't actually there.

I'm not so sure that he does. For an NPC, Chrom has a surprisingly large presence in the game. He's in Robin's Final Smash and victory pose, has his own trophy and online icon, and has a fairly lengthy conversation with the Kid Icarus characters in Palutena's Guidance. He has a lot of attention despite not being playable, and even though he's being teased here, that's kind of how those characters act; Palutena and Viridi love to mess with people, and Chrom's a mostly serious character with a slight goofy side to him that gets exposed when he's put into awkward situations. I think it's more of Sakurai's way of playing with the fans and poking fun at a widely held opinion of Chrom. I don't think he hates him.

Though I will admit that doesn't change the fact that fans of Chrom probably won't take that well. Fortunately, though, the number of diehard Chrom fans left at this point is relatively small.

My point exactly. Sakurai doesn't hate Chrom at all, he's giving Chrom a ton of attention kind of as tribute to the fact that he couldn't find a way to make Chrom more interesting. The dialog is poking fun at the fans, not at Chrom himself. They're not making fun of Chrom, they're making fun of the fans assuming things.

 

[Xzsmmc]

No, Sakurai just hates the fact that people assumed for over a year that a certain character was guaranteed to be playable without even thinking about other possibilities. Chrom's treatment is a bit harsh, but its not about the character in general. Its moreso people trying to make assumptions about what Sakurai will do. I'd say that if it wasn't for the fans thinking that Chrom was a shoe-in for 1-2 years, Chrom would not be receiving the treatment he has gotten. And honestly, he's treating Chrom fairly well all things considered and is giving Chrom numerous appearances in different ways.

I do think the dialog in the Palutena's guidance is a bit harsh, though. But again, I honestly believe the treatment is moreso due to people assuming things that weren't actually there.

I'm not so sure that he does. For an NPC, Chrom has a surprisingly large presence in the game. He's in Robin's Final Smash and victory pose, has his own trophy and online icon, and has a fairly lengthy conversation with the Kid Icarus characters in Palutena's Guidance. He has a lot of attention despite not being playable, and even though he's being teased here, that's kind of how those characters act; Palutena and Viridi love to mess with people, and Chrom's a mostly serious character with a slight goofy side to him that gets exposed when he's put into awkward situations. I think it's more of Sakurai's way of playing with the fans and poking fun at a widely held opinion of Chrom. I don't think he hates him.

Though I will admit that doesn't change the fact that fans of Chrom probably won't take that well. Fortunately, though, the number of diehard Chrom fans left at this point is relatively small.

I suppose, but it still feels like a low blow. People are going to be disappointed that their favorite character didn't make the cut, and constantly reminding them of that and making said character look awkward and incompetent is not going to make anyone feel better. Speaking personally, even assist trophies of characters I wanted rub me the wrong way.

 

[Dizzy_Fool]

At least Chrom plays a role in the game. At least he's part of a moveset and codecs and Sakurai recognizes his prominence. At least his game still received a helluva lot of attention. At least he was in a trailer.

Now look how much K. Rool or Dixie or Isaac got. Look at Advance Wars. Custom Robo didn't even get any content!

You wanna play as Chrom? Pick Ike's Chrom colours and unfocus your eyes.
He definitely could've been worse off.

Edit: basically what False Sense said.

 

[False Sense]

I suppose, but it still feels like a low blow. People are going to be disappointed that their favorite character didn't make the cut, and constantly reminding them of that and making said character look awkward and incompetent is not going to make anyone feel better.

Well, I can't really fault Sakurai for being true to Chrom's character.

 

[Xzsmmc]

At least Chrom plays a role in the game. At least he's part of a moveset and codecs and Sakurai recognizes his prominence. At least his game still received a helluva lot of attention. At least he was in a trailer.

Now look how much K. Rool or Dixie or Isaac got. Look at Advance Wars. Custom Robo didn't even get any content!

You wanna play as Chrom? Pick Ike's Chrom colours and unfocus your eyes.
He definitely could've been worse off.

Edit: basically what False Sense said.

I'd rather have nothing than an NPC role in all honesty. Otherwise it's just a painful reminder.

Well, I can't really fault Sakurai for being true to Chrom's character.

Haven't played Awakening, so I can't comment on that.

 

[JaidynReiman]

At least Chrom plays a role in the game. At least he's part of a moveset and codecs and Sakurai recognizes his prominence. At least his game still received a helluva lot of attention. At least he was in a trailer.

Now look how much K. Rool or Dixie or Isaac got. Look at Advance Wars. Custom Robo didn't even get any content!

You wanna play as Chrom? Pick Ike's Chrom colours and unfocus your eyes.
He definitely could've been worse off.

Edit: basically what False Sense said.

To be fair, any of those characters (and AW/CR) could be plausible DLC candidates. Chrom is basically the case of "ok, there's no chance I'm going to make this character playable, let's give him as big of a role in the game as possible to appease the fans."

 

[False Sense]

Haven't played Awakening

You should probably fix that.

But just for reference, this is what Chrom is like in Awakening.

 

[Xzsmmc]

You should probably fix that.

But just for reference, this is what Chrom is like in Awakening.

I'm not really big on strategy games. Probably cause I'm dumb as a post.

I dunno, I guess that I just feel sorry for all of Chrom's supporters, since it seems he's going to way of Ridley, and becoming a meme that everyone mocks. No one should have to go through that with their favorite.

 

[GunGunW]

I'd rather have then then .

Then . Then . Then . And then finally .


I don't want or which is good considering we'll probably never get them again anyway.

I'd put them in an order of personally.

You should probably fix that.

But just for reference, this is what Chrom is like in Awakening.

I honestly prefer the FemRobin/Chrom match up over the MaleRobin/Lucina one.

 

[Dizzy_Fool]

I'd rather have nothing than an NPC role in all honesty. Otherwise it's just a painful reminder.

Why are you so invested in a character whose game you haven't even played? That's kind of weird. I've played Awakening, and trust me, the game is better than its main character.

People might think they'd rather he have no role than an NPC now, but if they really like the character eventually down the line I bet most of them will just be content with the fact that he's in the game at all. If you mope every time you see Chrom you're going to make the character himself a painful reminder, then you've gone and ruined a character you used to like. You'd be better off making lemonade from the lemons Sakurai gave you.

To be fair, any of those characters (and AW/CR) could be plausible DLC candidates. Chrom is basically the case of "ok, there's no chance I'm going to make this character playable, let's give him as big of a role in the game as possible to appease the fans."

Well call me when they are an I'll amend my statement.

And yeah, exactly. Since there's no chance he'll be playable at least he got several roles elsewhere. It was either between that or nothing. At least he didn't get nothing.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Why are you so invested in a character whose game you haven't even played? That's kind of weird. I've played Awakening, and trust me, the game is better than its main character.

People might think they'd rather he have no role than an NPC now, but if they really like the character eventually down the line I bet most of them will just be content with the fact that he's in the game at all. If you mope every time you see Chrom you're going to make the character himself a painful reminder, then you've gone and ruined a character you used to like. You'd be better off making lemonade from the lemons Sakurai gave you.

Because I feel bad for his supporters. I'm indifferent about Chrom himself, but a disconfirmation consisting of him looking like a total loser couldn't have been an easy pill to swallow. Now we have another reminder that you can't play as him, no matter how much you want to, which is worse than complete absence in my opinion.

 

[Dizzy_Fool]

Because I feel bad for his supporters. I'm indifferent about Chrom himself, but a disconfirmation consisting of him looking like a total loser couldn't have been an easy pill to swallow. Now we have another reminder that you can't play as him, no matter how much you want to, which is worse than complete absence in my opinion.

Oh man, that's even worse. If Chrom supporters can handle it in stride, I'm sure you wallowing on their behalf is going to get you less than nowhere, empathetic a gesture as it might be.

Sakurai is only doing it tongue-in-cheek anyway, and you can't change the fact that Chrom is in the game, so don't let it ruin a character for you. It's just a game, if people are really and truly crushed over this, it's because they put too much stock into it honestly. You don't need to make the mistake they did, especially since a lot of them do seem to have gotten over it.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Oh man, that's even worse. If Chrom supporters can handle it in stride, I'm sure you wallowing on their behalf is going to get you less than nowhere, empathetic a gesture as it might be.

Sakurai is only doing it tongue-in-cheek anyway, and you can't change the fact that Chrom is in the game, so don't let it ruin a character for you. It's just a game, if people are really and truly crushed over this, it's because they put too much stock into it honestly. You don't need to make the mistake they did, especially since a lot of them do seem to have gotten over it.

It hasn't ruined a thing for me. I just hate seeing others unhappy or belittled.

Truth be told, I'm far more upset about how the Donkey Kong Country franchise is being represented.

 

[Dizzy_Fool]

It hasn't ruined a thing for me. I just hate seeing others unhappy or belittled.

Yeah man. If you haven't played Awakening and Chrom in Smash is only going to serve as a painful memory for you, then that feeling is what you're going to associate Chrom with. That's how things get ruined.

I'd suggest trying to lift their spirits instead of letting it brings yours down though.

Truth be told, I'm far more upset about how the Donkey Kong Country franchise is being represented.

Understandably so. They got quite the shaft. Not even getting one AT is pretty ridiculous.

I do think we'll be getting more DK content via DLC though.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Yeah man. If you haven't played Awakening and Chrom in Smash is only going to serve as a painful memory for you, then that feeling is what you're going to associate Chrom with. That's how things get ruined.

I'd suggest trying to lift their spirits instead of letting it brings yours down though.

Yeah, you're probably right. Though I have no plans to play as Pit, so I won't be seeing much of him.

Understandably so. They got quite the shaft. Not even getting one AT is pretty ridiculous.

I do think we'll be getting more DK content via DLC though.

I hope so. Even though I support K. Rool and Dixie, I can live without them. But not even having one AT is ridiculous.

 

[Dizzy_Fool]

I heard that you can do the Pit codecs without Pit, but I don't know if that's true.