Character Discussion Thread (This week: Peach and Falco)

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

The pair for this week?

 

[Nah]

The list in the OP says that the next pair is supposed to be and . Discussion on the previous pair has seemed to died down, so if you'll allow me to be a pretentious piece of **** for a moment, I'll start it off for Robin. I'll keep this post short for now:

Robin's Kuroganehammer page

that really nice other frame data spreadsheet (may have to click on the Robin tab)

the only thing I'm aware of that shows Robin's hitboxes


Basically Robin is an exercise in both why having a strong advantage state (particularly in the stock-ending department) is important, but why it alone is not enough. She has some rather significant flaws, and her representation has largely only been local or regional threats, with the sole exception of Dath, nevermind that it feels to me that the activity of said remotely notable Robin mains has slowly been declining a bit, plus her score on Koops's thread has, iirc, been kind of holding at a low-ish number for a while now.

I don't think that the character will (ever) drop out of mid-tier, but I think that it's time to put the dream to rest that Robin will ever be A Truly Big Deal.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Did not see that since I never thought of checking the first post again. Was just waiting for another post from him along with a title change.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Robin was the first character I touched in Smash 3ds for the simple fact that they were a mage. Shortly after that I found My Smash Corner videos of them and practiced them for a short while.

I think Robin is a great character even with the slow movement speed. My favorite thing about Robin is arcthunder shield presure to grabs, shield breaks, or shield pokes into punishes along with up air spam and chucking tomes across the stage to snipe opponents with a kill move that is very hard to see.

Props to their mains who stuck with them while I abandoned ship.

-

As for Palutena, she was the 2nd character I touched in Smash for 3ds. I played her for her smash attacks, down throw combos, jab reset, and up-air. Her up smash is really cool but I rarely got it to land so I stopped using it.

I think Palutena is also a great character but to me it feels like playing a game of how long can you last until you break.Games with her to me were dragged out time-wise with me just constantly poking the opponent's shield with retreating f-airs. I used to watch kmpyj videos to improve my palutena.

I eventually dropped Robin along with Palutena due to facing Fox, Falco, and Captain Falcon on For Glory which eventually made me drop them due to being overwhelmed by speed and the reflectors were annoying me. My Robin was super campy and all projectile-based until you jumped above me.

 

[ARGHETH]

Yeah, this week's Robin and Pslutena.

 

[Krysco]

I used to main Robin for quite a while after I ditched MK since his meta was becoming nothing but landing uair ladders before they got patched. Loved the power Robin has along with the range and relative lack of lag (namely thinking ac on aerials). But I also had Mewtwo and over time, I found that Mewtwo did what I liked about Robin but better. Still has range and plenty of kill power and lowish lag but also has faster walk, run and airspeed, a better jumpsquat, a more versatile recovery, a faster attack in the air, better air dodge. All that at the cost of less weight and being a bigger target. I also find SB to be way more threatening than any form of Thunder. Small ones jab lock and full ones kill earlier than Arcthunder or Thoron. Robin has Checkmate but opponents can fall out of the percent range it works in and Robin can flat out lose his Levin Sword.

I agree that Robin will stay in mid tier and I'm not trying to say that Mewtwo is an outright better Robin but that Robin's flaws eventually made me drop him in favour of Mewtwo.

Should also note that Robin had the second highest amount of reps at FE saga, only behind Corrin and yet not a single one got out of pools.

 

[Lord Dio]

Re: Palu
mid tier at best. While she has kill options that are debatably better than what most people in her tier have, she has just as much trouble getting them. Next to useless tilts make her ground game poor.
She strikes me as an aerial grappler per se, she has the throw combos, but she wants to mostly play defensive while in the air.
Losing customs that made her much, much better was a huge detriment to her as well.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Bayonetta and Samus time!

On release, I was shocked to see Bayonetta. I decided to play Corrin first due to the Bayo hype bandwagon.

I remember the streamer I watched lab her during release was Darkpch. He basically said thst due to all the hype, players would lab her out extensively while finding all of the cool stuff and her counterplay would develop quickly due to that.

When I played Bayonetta, I did not like her due to her movement speed, jump, b-air and specials, barring Witch Time. She felt too slow and clunky. I wanted more weapons(bow and arrow bomb was my favorite weapon), Torture Attacks, the like from her source games. I really wanted to play Bayonetta like I am used to: all Witch Time, slow-motion combat, mixed in with tons of rolls and using every second of Bullet Arts from attacks.

My favorite things about Bayonetta are all of her source game references and the Akira Yuki F-Throw Tetsuzanko. Unlike the source games, she actually says "You're ten years too early!" which makes me so happy when I hear it. Too bad commenators have no clue what she says and that her F-throw is weak by my standards.

As for competitive Bayonetta, I loved watching her combos and how quickly players learned to use Witch Time to set up max-charged smash attacks.
It's sad to me that her hype quickly turned into negativity and complaints. Years later, the community still acts like we are in Week 1 of Bayonetta in tournies.

I have not fought a Bayonetta offline in bracket yet so all I can think of for the match-up is the dog in a burning house meme saying: "This is fine". I have fought her twice online when fellow Discord Lucas mains pulled her out but that is it.

For Samus, I love charge shot (64 verzion for vfx and sfx). I think she was at her best visually in 64, but after that she did not appeal to me anymore. Missiles were a cool addition in later entries but they felt lacking to me, and the Smash missile is not powerful enough to make me want to use it. I want it to be a kill move.

I have only played the Super Metroid demo in Brawl so I know that she has Ice Missiles. I would like Samus more if she had a vareity of visually appealing (flashy) attacks or more weapons from her source games. Rather than just having a lot of melee armor attacks. I wish she could make use of her jetpack more.

When Zero Suit Samus was introduced, she had me longing for a version of Samus like that but just with armor.Regular Samus does not seem cool to me aside from the initial impression of a girl wearing a mech-suit to invade planets and kill aliens.

 

[ARGHETH]

Bayo and Samus now.

Bayo being this week is oddly appropriate...

 

[Deleted member]

Yay, I get to talk about one of my three favorite characters now!

Sate...I will not bother discussing as I do not know her too well outside of basic attributes.

I, a 56-year-old female Smasher, have been using for six months now. In spite of watching over 500 matchup videos on her I do not know how to put it all together yet, so I shall only discuss her on the basic level.

What are your general thoughts on the character?
She is an extremely formidable albeit incosistent character who should never be taken lightly. A well-thought out Witch Time which can possibly be the end of you. You cannot afford to play carelessly around her. On the other hand, it is impossible to be careful around her, too. Now, counterplay against her exists but it is never a certainty against her. The best you can do is SDI and play reactively but again, Witch Time can ruin your day. Oh, and this is better than this .

Who are some of the most notable players for the character?

• Salem took home first place in several majors in the past six months (EVO 2017, Dream Hack Atlanta, Fire Emblem Saga, Tipped Off, Midwest Mayhem, Smash 4 Boot Camp).
• Mistake - one of the best Bayo players thus far, he has taken sets off of ZeRo, Salem, Nairo, Dabuz, Larry Lurr, VoiD, WaDi, Ally, Abadango, and komorikiri. He is my favorite Bayonetta user simply because he prefers this over this , the same as I do. Even though he did not win Genesis 5, I am proud of him being in second. I was pretty surprised he got away with punishable habits to get that far.
• Captain Zack, the same as Salem and Mistake, is one of the best Bayo pros on the planet (and my second-favorite Bayo user). He has taken sets from some of the same pros as Mistake. The only notable placings I can think of are him coming in fourth at Too Hot to Handle, PAX Arena, and Midwest Mayhem 9. I pray for him to win a major just like Salem did.

What are some of the things holding the character back in the current meta?
Nothing significant, to my knowledge. To me, her meta is still being worked on considering she's been on this game for nearly two years.

What are some things that are making the character successful in the current meta?

• An unparalleled punishment game. Witch Time can come out when when you least expect it, and you'll be subject to a smash attack that will KO you. If it is not that, then she can perform one of 500 different combos that can take you to KO percentage.
• Her perceived low risk, high reward play-style.

What are the character's best and worst matchups?
I shall not enumerate them all since my MU knowledge is pretty light. I know for sure that is one of her easiest MUs hands down. My other girl , on the other hand, has to be one of Bayo's harder matchups probably because of her neutral far surpassing Bayo's. The one against interests me in that she can zero-death him off the sides of the stage. If I had to quantify her matchup spread, it would be around 60:40.

What are the character's best stage(s)?
Well, any place with platforms. I know she especially loves Lylat Cruise. With the tilting stage, she can employ Bullet Climax more. Bayo also prefers Town and City and Dream Land 64 since the upper blast zones are adequately low for her Witch Twist combos to finish off opponents early. These are just my observations.

Should Bayo be banned?
Hell no. Brawl Meta Knight and Tekken 4 Jin Kazama had cloying tournament results. Bayo does not, though her results are great. Now, considering she has only been on this game for almost two years, her metagame is still being worked on. I do remember few regions banned her for a while but 1.1.6 comes along and fixes her up. But it is such a pity that even after patch 1.1.6 fixed her, y'all are saying it is still not enough. You should be happy with what you have, otherwise you should stop playing and return to Melee. That game is far better received than Smash 4 anyway.

Bayo has a lacking neutral and mediocre frame data on the ground relative to other top tiers. She has very poor landing recovery from doing combos that have Afterburner Kicks and Witch Twists. Not to mention she ain't that mobile by air or land. Despite having 500 different combos, does she not have some difficulties taking a stock? Back-air is probably her fastest kill move though to me it is predictable at high damage similar to 's f-air; down-air has a high amount of knockback on the touchdown hit and it spikes but pretty risky off-stage and leaves her open if enemies shield it; her smashes are powerful but slow and laggy as hell (apologies in advance for my unladylike language) with pitiful priority. Those are notable weaknesses that should certainly prevent her being banned. That is all I shall say. I do not want to make a dissertation out of this.

With that, I've given my thoughts on my girl, and can't wait to talk about and when their turn comes. Again, my knowledge on competitive play is light, so do not be too hard on a nice old woman. Things like advantage/disadvantage state, character MUs, what have you...tough for me to grasp but I can learn a lot from y'all. Kindly let me know what I am missing.

Sayonara

 

[ぱみゅ]

Samus is basically a sword character (thanks to her long limbs) with some projectiles that are too slow for her to play a heavy zoning game, instead she got very good combos and kill powe.
She's only lacking on CQC and not being great at avoiding juggles or getting back to the stage, but other than that, her strong neutral and advantage are amazing.
Whenever Charge Shot is online it becomes a very threatening tool and changes completely the dynamic of the game, now you have to respect her a lot.

Honestly, despite her flaws, I think that if Charge Shot was chargeable while airborne, the character could possibly be Top Tier.


.
..
I'm not gonna say a thing about Bayonetta.

 

[Crystanium]

Samus excels at a distance. Properly spaced and timed z-airs are important to Samus. When her opponent approaches, if she plans on using z-air, she must retreat while doing so. When she has control, she can move toward her opponent. Z-air may be used to edge-guard the opponent. Charge shot (CS) is Samus' most powerful attack. It charges completely at 125 frames (2.08 seconds). CS can be canceled into a grab or simply shield-canceled to aerial with a smooth transition. It gives Samus players the psychological control. If Samus is behind in percent damage, a fully charged shot will produce 26% damage. It's also a kill move.

Samus lacks the short hop homing missile cancel (SHHMC), as well as firing two super missiles, which would have benefited her here, since she's much better than her SSBB counterpart. Samus performs better in the air than she does on the ground. While her jab 1 is decent, if properly utilized, Samus can wall her opponent. These include grapplers like Mario or Ness. Should jab 1 hit on time—as it should with its frame 3 (50 milliseconds) hitbox—the opponent will be stopped in his or her tracks. If Samus is grabbed during this animation, she will break free from the grab.

Jab 1 becomes more effective at higher percents, at least around 30% and higher, due to the Sakurai angle becoming irrelevant. The opponent will be pushed back further, allowing Samus to use f-tilt or d-tilt, both of which are quick tilts. Even jab 2 becomes useful around this time. At 100%, jab 1 or an f-tilt can cause the opponent to enter a helpless reeling state where teching isn't possible. This allows Samus to use CS to ensure a guaranteed kill. Samus has pretty good aerials, such as n-air, b-air, and f-air. D-air becomes only useful for spiking, but is otherwise not used often, unless you're Pyreeze. D-air can be properly spaced with short hops to avoid landing lag.

U-air has a quick cool down, allowing Samus to utilize the attack multiple times to pester the opponent who may end up shielding. It can be used for crossing up as well. U-air has the potential to become a ladder combo. While this ladder combo is only effective starting at 0%, platforms can change this, allowing Samus to perform the ladder combo at >0%. B-air is effective in killing the opponent and can be useful to keep the opponent at bay. It's a powerful aerial against shields as well. F-air has multiple hits and Samus is free to move forward or backward while performing this, a change that started in SSBB, with SSBM making it possible for Samus to only move forward without the ability to retreat. F-air can also kill. The final hitbox has more knockback.

N-air was buffed. It has two hits, with the front hit having a larger hitbox and more knockback, while the back is smaller and weaker. N-air is a useful anti-aerial attack, which can be effective against characters who jump a lot like Mario or Zero Suit Samus. N-air is an alternative to killing the opponent off-stage, if the player doesn't want to commit to using d-air. It is possible to land onto the opponent and have both parts of the attack hit.

While there are good qualities about Samus, such as these, as well as being tied with Bowser Jr. in terms of weight (6th - 7th heaviest), she has flaws. Fast characters like Fox or Sheik can become overwhelming, making it difficult for Samus to space herself. Samus might find herself losing stage control as well. While Samus might have the tools to kill these opponents at earlier percents, it becomes difficult. Samus may also be bested when it comes to spamming projectiles. While she can shoot through arrows and boomerangs, both Link's and Toon Link's bombs and shields can make it difficult to successfully land a fully charged CS.

In spite of these, Samus can perform what is dubbed as the "shinespark", which requires Samus to be at high percents (at least 120%). A dash attack to a screw attack can result in an instant death to the opponent. It requires timing, proper percentage, and nicking the opponent with the screw attack. It's a high risk-reward trick, but it's a trick that can turn the entire match or even set around. If Samus could fire two super missiles and perform SHHMC like she could in SSBB, it probably would push her further into mid-tier. Her d-tilt was nerfed in Sm4sh, where in SSBB it was a kill move. Samus is at least a mid-tier character, as we have seen her achieve in the recent tier list.

The current, notable Samus players seem to be IcyMist and Pyreeze, both of whom attended Genesis 5. IcyMist got 33rd, and Pyreeze got 49th.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

I remember when Bayonetta was released, some players called her Shiek because she could do long combos and rack up damage but struggled to kill.

 

[PURGE THEM LIKE THE]

I can't look at the frame data right now, but I believe samus' charged shot has the least startup of all the high damage charging projectiles (shadow ball, aura sphere etc.) from full charge. It can actually be difficult to react to depending on how close she is. Her forward tilt is a kill move at later percents, has good range, and is, I believe, safeish on shield.

 

[ARGHETH]

DK and Wii Fit Trainer this week.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

The only Donkey Kong games I have played were Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong Racing, Donkey Kong Country, and one of Diddy Kong's games on the gameboy color. I never really got into the series until I played and completed Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, it's the only DK game I have beaten besides the original Donkey Kong (thanks Club Nintendo).

As for Smash, I never really liked Donkey Kong or enjoyed playing him, he did not seen special to me. As for Smash 4, he popularized throws to up airs being kill confirms after Diddy Kong took the spotlight. I'm aware of DKWill but I have not seen him in big tournies for a while.

I know Tweek has a secondary DK and then there is Konga who has traveled to a few big name tournies and got his name out there. As for Donkey Kong's moves, I know he has two shield breaks. One being Headbutt and the other is a grounded Hand Slap next to the opponent, His Giant Punch can also kill early if you stop charging it on the second-to-last swing.

Besides that his b-air and Dash Attack gives me trouble.

-

I played Wii Fit Plus once and got quickly bored within 10 minutes. As for Smash, I really enjoy her kit. Even though her hitboxes are small and some attacks have hitboxes on both sides of her body, her f-air has a neteor hitbox on her back leg and her Header special doubles as a meteor smash that lasts a long time.

Too bad their playerbase seems to be low. The only Wii Fit Trainer mains that comes to mind is John Numbers and TKBreezy's short-lived Wii Fit Trainer that actually encouraged me to play the for a while due to his Header meteors. I'm not a fan of how John Numbers plays Wii Fit Trainer but it works for him. I wish he would use Deep Breathing more since that and Header are my favorite Wii Fit Trainer moves. I also love their stage and the music it has.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

For Mega Man, he's really cool novelty-wise. My only experience with him was through the Marvel vs Capcom series, Mega Man for the Gameboy Color, Mega Man Powered Up, Mega Man 10 on Easy mode. Super Smash Flash 2, the Dr Wily Scott Pilgrim cameo, and the Namco X Capcom/Project X Zone series.

I can't wait for the Mega Man Collection and the X series to come to Switch so I can play the other games I missed. I'd rather not pay 80 bucks at GameStop for the gamecube X collection.

Smash-wise Megaman is still pretty cool. He was one of my casual smash mains. The hardest tech I learned in Smash 4 was his short hop Mega Buster spam pattern and Super Glide Toss. Down Throw to double bair was easy for me.

As for competitive smash, I remember seeing a ton of Mega Man players at the beginning. Names like Zucco come to mind. Then there was Scatt and Kamemushi after they fizzled out. Now Kameme plays a lot of other characters but recently his Mega Man has been coming back slowly and there is Peabnut getting people all hype along with some other Mega Man's I'm forgetting.

-

Dark Pit is a really cool character from Kid Icarus Uprising. I love his theme song, level, cool voice, he has purple arrows, and personality. Too bad his moveset is not as diverse as I would like. He is basically in the same pit as Bayonetta: I wanted more weapons and him having Captain Falcon's Raptor Boost sucks to me.

The only player I have kept up with who plays Dark Pit is Kiraflax, so I'm lacking in that area, have not seen much of Dark Pit besides there.

 

[Krysco]

I actually use Dark Pit quite a bit since I prefer the additional kill option ElectroShock provides and ftilt lacks the higher knockback sweetspot that Pit's has for tech chase scenarios with side b. I just find the endlag to be a bit too much for it to be reliable. Don't care too much for the arrows since they do poor damage and edgeguarding is a joke in Sm4sh anyways. Best you'll get with Pit's is maybe catching a double jump but I'd rather go for the more reliable maybe of catching an option onstage and just outright killing with ElectroShock.

 

[Yonder]

DK and Wii Fit Trainer this week.

The only Donkey Kong games I have played were Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong Racing, Donkey Kong Country, and one of Diddy Kong's games on the gameboy color. I never really got into the series until I played and completed Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, it's the only DK game I have beaten besides the original Donkey Kong (thanks Club Nintendo).

As for Smash, I never really liked Donkey Kong or enjoyed playing him, he did not seen special to me. As for Smash 4, he popularized throws to up airs being kill confirms after Diddy Kong took the spotlight. I'm aware of DKWill but I have not seen him in big tournies for a while.

I know Tweek has a secondary DK and then there is Konga who has traveled to a few big name tournies and got his name out there. As for Donkey Kong's moves, I know he has two shield breaks. One being Headbutt and the other is a grounded Hand Slap next to the opponent, His Giant Punch can also kill early if you stop charging it on the second-to-last swing.

Besides that his b-air and Dash Attack gives me trouble.

-

I played Wii Fit Plus once and got quickly bored within 10 minutes. As for Smash, I really enjoy her kit. Even though her hitboxes are small and some attacks have hitboxes on both sides of her body, her f-air has a neteor hitbox on her back leg and her Header special doubles as a meteor smash that lasts a long time.

Too bad their playerbase seems to be low. The only Wii Fit Trainer mains that comes to mind is John Numbers and TKBreezy's short-lived Wii Fit Trainer that actually encouraged me to play the for a while due to his Header meteors. I'm not a fan of how John Numbers plays Wii Fit Trainer but it works for him. I wish he would use Deep Breathing more since that and Header are my favorite Wii Fit Trainer moves. I also love their stage and the music it has.

Ouch. That was a rather unsuccessful week for these two,with the only discussion being the one post I've quoted. Hopefully, we can maybe think of a way to remedy this in the future,for cases with no discussion at all.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Yeah. I think people forgot this thread existed.

Edit: Well this week is Roy and Yoshi.

-

For Roy, I love his updated design and his trailer was hilarious. I remember stumbling on the Roy, Ryu, and Lucas leak on Youtube that had 3 new victory themes one day during my senior year of highschool. I kept going back to youtube throughout the day to see more videos about it get uploaded and got excited.

As for competitive Roy, all I can think of is Komorikiri, Hyper, and Ryo the Ike main. I do not know much about the character, but judging from 4br talk, commentators, and the vods I do see of Roy on stream, it seems like there is a debate on whether Roy is good or not. I do enjoy the talks about the uses for his sourspot attacks.

-

For Yoshi, casually in smash, all I can say is that I like his red, dark blue, light blue, and purple alts. I'm really glad they finally gave him a purple alt. My favorite Yoshi games are Yoshi's Story for the Nintendo 64 and Yoshi's Island for thr Gameboy Advance.

As for competitive Yoshi, I fought The Wall in friendlies before and struggled against his playstyle of the character. I learned to implement teabagging into my strategy from him.

I think the best Yoshi player is The Wall, along with El Yoshi. Those are the Yoshi mains I have been exposed to the most and watching them play is a treat because they usually taunt and teabag midset and it's a great mind game from my perspective. It's an added bonus if your players get tilted from it.

I'm aware of Seth and Sky's Yoshi. I have seen more of Seth's Yoshi than Sky's. I do not think Sky is the best Yoshi, I think players say that because he lives in SoCal (region with weeklies that gets a ton of viewers), is popular, and has the reputation of playing with top players who put in a good word for Sky. So I just think everyone jumps on that.

 

[ARGHETH]

Peach and Falco this week.

Honestly, I might put this on hiatus until I figure out how to get participation up...

 

[Deleted member]

Promised myself I would be on these forums on Saturdays only but we appear to have arrived at my favorite character so I shall give my input.

Ever since I started playing Melee since late 2005, was growing on me. It was not until Brawl released that I started to improve my own Peach. Of course, I have no desire to get into competitive play. Anyways, my favorite colors to use are her pink, Daisy, and green swatches.

What are your general thoughts on the character?
My knowledge on competitive play is rather light so I shall just state what I know about her. The same as in Melee, Peach is quite a technical character. For example her combo game requires a considerable amount of precision such as that infinite she can do with hit 1 of her new up-air (but then again this particular combo works only on taller characters if I am not mistaken). She has several advanced movements like Quick Float Release that aids her approach.

Who are some of the most notable players for the character?
I am personally partial to the Japanese Peach professionals in Kie and Umeki. Was Umeki not the guy who started that infinite combo with her? It looks cool just like combos gone well from Tekken 5 onwards, but I digress. But I cannot forget Samsora, who has to be arguably the best Peach here in U.S.A. And I am surprised to see that he also sometimes uses and even the same as me. And I am even more amazed CaptainZack uses Peach and Rosa occasionally. They are starting to become my favorite pro players.

What are some of the things holding the character back in the current meta?
Well, for one thing it would have to be her very high learning curve. Somebody out there correct me if I am missing something but her learning curve is not that much different from Melee . Her combo game requires a significant amount of precision to get them off right. I heard that her neutral game is one of the trickiest to master. Generally, she lacks mobility and her set of moves are not suitable for rushdown. Neutral-air lacks range even though it is very fast to come out. Forward air is slow though it is her strongest aerial. Down air has great start-up and recovery frames but has no hitboxes from the waist up. Back-air is decent but the recovery time is god-awful (and it recovers even slower than in Brawl, boo...). For Peach to work her magic, she will need a turnip, okay. Having one in hand will allow her to slow her opponents down, help in some combos, make occasional KOs depending on what you plucked, heck, even make hot coffee in less than five minutes. Yeah, you better have a plan after throwing your turnip.

I am not too sure how to quantify her difficulty in making KOs. Forward smash and forward air are a bit slow, up-smash has to be sweet-spotted, Toad requires a good read, etc. Between y'all and me, her down smash here (and Melee for that matter) is more bearable to use than in Brawl, and I would love to see her forward throw have those knockback values from Melee.

And those are my thoughts. As for ...I shall not discuss him since I do not know him too well; only , so...

Sayonara

 

[Krysco]

My cousin used Peach as a tertiary sort of character back in the Brawl days, focusing mostly on his Marth and Link but it carried over easily to Sm4sh where initially he focused on Link and Peach since Marth was changed so drastically (and quite frankly, started off as a terrible character) so I got to fight Peach quite a bit. He eventually dropped Peach to instead focus on Ike and kept his Link because he found that she was too much work for too little reward and he found the Cloud/Peach mu unbearable. To be fair, he's got a Cloud issue in general but the characters ease of use and effectiveness was enough to effectively make him drop one of his favourite characters and in general, I find those statements apply a lot to Peach as a character. It's well known that she's a hard to use character and that dlc was not too terribly kind to her since she doesn't like dealing with disjoints due to her lack of them herself and she's not too fast either. I also find it unfortunate how those footstool infinites she was found to have made the dev team nerf her uair if only a little bit. Lastly, her dtilt is a horribly designed move. It's a meteor but only on grounded opponents which means if your opponent tries to shield, even if they're late by a few frames, they can get away without being hit by a follow up. Other dtilts that pop the opponent up like Link's and Ike's don't have this issue.

Tl;dr for Peach, she's hard to use and doesn't like dlc or disjoints and I personally find her dtilt to be horribly designed.

I've had a Falco pretty much since launch but that's just because Wolf isn't in the game and I'm in denial. I find him a fun character but I can't deny that he's basically a poor mans Fox. Every other clone or semi clone has something to boast about over the original but all Falco has is...higher jumps which doesn't even mean much since Fox's higher speed and vortex makes him overall more threatening when he's below you. I feel Falco was overly nerfed going from Brawl to Sm4sh and I get why they nerfed him since he was a top tier in both Melee and Brawl and mostly thanks to just a few moves but they nerfed those moves and then didn't really give him anything to compensate for those nerfs. No extra power or speed or a better recovery.

May as well tag my cousin @Chase_ to see if he logs on and wants to give his own opinions on the characters or not.

 

[ARISTOS]

Peach is cool, her overall damage and threat level close up allows her to play well in matchups where she gets beat in speed.

Unfortunately any new Peach player will have to suffer through the multitudes of Clouds that exist, which can be incredibly painful

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

For Peach. I miss her Melee Peach Bomber due to the explosion. I love her various F-Smashes due to the sound effects. The angles with the frying pan and tennis racket are my favorite. I also enjoy her pummel, back throw, down throw and her f-air. They are pretty cool to me.

Her turnip special is really cool, too bad that she can only get bob-ombs and Mr Saturns in Smash 4. I miss the beam sword and the old pull rates.

Competitive-wise the Peach mains I know of are: Dark Pch, Samsora, Twi, and Umeki.

As for Falco, I only know of him from Smash 64, Did You Know Gaming videos, Melee, and Brawl. I enjoyed his Brawl voice and taunts, that was my favorite. His reflector in that game was cool too. I am glad they kept that in Smash 4. I prefer his personality over Fox. He seems like a fun guy, similar to Sasuke and Shadow the Hedgehog.

As for competitive Falco, I know close to nothing. There was one player a few months ago that got some attention. Then I hear from time to time about Keitaro's Falco but I rarely see it. The only solid stuff I know of competitive Falco is that there were videos released where players labbed frame-canceled dair combod with him; everything else in the video was just complaints about how Falco was not his Brawl or Melee self.

Then the Falco players vanished.